r/prochoice • u/goldenskless • 10h ago
When pro-life is anti-life I’m so infuriated by the inhumane treatment of pregnant people
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r/prochoice • u/littlemetalpixie • Mar 15 '23
Hi Everyone!
The mod team would like the sub to understand a few things about the stance we take on AntiNatalist discourse here, and why we do not typically allow it.
There is a lot of confusion between these terms even within our own community, and our goal is to help people who consider themselves pro choice and also antinatalist to see how these terms are not only not equivalent, but are actually in direct opposition to one another.
We often get AntiNatalists in the sub who believe they are helping the Pro Choice cause, and while they are welcome here - provided the rules, beliefs, and standards of our sub are upheld - usually these posts or comments need mod intervention due to breaking our sub's rules regarding non-prochoice rhetoric and expectations of non-prochoice people. These topics should be separated in conversations surrounding choice, so as not to muddy the waters in the current political environment. Our sub's mod team does not support antinatalist ideology.
While seemingly aligned with the prochoice cause, being AntiNatalist or Pro-Abortion isn't the same thing as being Pro Choice.
Many people are under the misconception that being pro choice means being pro-abortion or AntiNatalist. While there is some overlap, this simply isn't the case for everyone (or even most) in our demographic. * Being pro-abortion means that in certain circumstances (the most common are when people become pregnant under a certain age or when their life or economic circumstances aren't ideal) someone would advocate for the pregnant person to have an abortion rather than give birth even if the pregnant person does not want to have an abortion and would choose to birth the child. * Being AntiNatalist is subscribing to the philosophy that humans in general should not be procreating at all, and that it is immoral or wrong to even consider doing so due to the state of the world, overpopulation, and many other reasons.
Many of us are already parents. Many others intend to become parents, but are not ready to at this time. And almost none of us believe that no one should have children, or that anyone should have to have an abortion if they don't want to. By inserting pro-abortion or AntiNatalist ideologies into the Pro Choice debate, we cause the topics to become tangled to people who are anti abortion and prefer not to understand the myriad of reasons one may have an abortion even if they do not want to - even if they were trying to conceive and really wanted the pregnancy, but things didn't go the way they intended.
The truth is even people with wanted pregnancies are hurt by abortion bans - people who want to be parents but have something go wrong with the pregnancy or in their life circumstances that cause them to have to terminate a pregnancy; a birth defect that would lead to infant mortality or a nonviable pregnancy, a spouse who becomes abusive, or a life threatening condition that comes up due to the pregnancy are the first things that come to mind, but this list isn't exhaustive by any means.
While it could be said that many (if not most or even all) AntiNatalists are against abortion bans, the same is not true in reverse - antinatalists make up a very small percentage of the total Pro Choice population, and assuming (or insinuating in discourse) that all of us are against parenthood is an incorrect assumption that is more aligned with the anti choice communities and their rhetoric. It does more harm than good, and gives them more ammo against us.
This include the choice to conceive and birth children.
The very core of our ideology is that every single living being has the unalienable human right to have agency over his or her own body, what happens to and inside of it, and when/where/how/if they choose to procreate. We value personal choice above all else - we feel, on the whole, that the choice to decide what is best for one's life and family, the choice to decide not to have children, the choice to not have children now but perhaps later on in life, and the right to make these choices and then change our minds about them if we so choose and when we choose are ours and ours alone, as an individual human, to make.
While we recognize that not procreating at all, ever, is a choice (and we support you if that is your choice!) we would like to take a moment to help people see how injecting AntiNatalist discourse into the PC discussion can be harmful to our cause.
For the record, we almost never see AntiNatalists who are maliciously attempting to undermine choice - almost all of them who come to our sub and have to have comments or posts removed, do so without realizing how what they said came across as being the antithesis of choice, or how they have broken our sub's rules. We attempt to help them see it, but we do have to remove that content because it is against the rules and the core principles in the sub.
We're with you here - and we think you should be supported in making that choice if that is what you choose. Many on our mod team are also childfree by choice.
Where the two points diverge, though, is in the projection of that choice on others. AntiNatalist ideologies are not the same as making the personal decision to remain childfree. AntiNatalist ideologies promote the idea that no one should procreate, ever.
In the discussion around choice, this is another removal of said choice. This is the other end of the spectrum of being antichoice - Pro Lifers argue that everyone who conceives should give birth. AntiNatalists argue that no one should.
Both options take away the personal agency of the individual, in favor of the ideology of another. Both take the choice away from the only person who should be making it.
We do not advocate for forced abortions or forced sterilization here - for anyone (and this includes AMAB people, so this also means talk of forced vasectomy is also completely off the table here, no exceptions.)
If you identify with AntiNatalist ideology, we simply ask that you take a moment to think about the things you are promoting in the name of being Pro Choice, how you word them, and that you please try to separate these two discussions when you engage in Pro Choice discussions.
You can advocate for having abortion bans be abolished. You can even advocate for being child free.
However, advocating that anyone should not be allowed to procreate, or even that they shouldn't is restricting choice and it is also parent-shaming. AntiNatalist ideology tends to only focus on people who are AFAB, and puts all of the impetus to not procreate on the AFAB person, the same way antichoicers do.
Instead of shaming AFAB people for "killing their babies," this argument is just turning that around and shaming AFAB people for "being too selfish to not have children, considering the state of our world."
Shaming is shaming, and shaming AFAB people for being AFAB and what their body can and can't or should and shouldn't do is misogyny.
Telling someone they must be a mother is the same thing as telling them they must not.
Some on our own mod team here are parents, too. Many of our members are. And millions of pro choice people worldwide are. The same way we do not restrict people who claim to be "personally pro life but legally pro choice" from posting or commenting here, we also would not restrict people who are personally child free or even believe in AntiNatalism but still support individual choice.
But we will not allow shaming, and we will not allow discourse that takes away any choices or makes people feel they are wrong for making them.
If you aren't trying to make decisions for others or influence the decisions you think they should be making you're welcome to say, think, and believe anything you want. Where we draw the line is when it shames, harms, or otherwise reduces the agency of others to make those same choices in the way they make sense to them, for their own lives.
Anyone is welcome here if they are respectful, willing to listen and not just talk at people, and willing to follow the sub's rules. This is true of Pro Life people, and also of AntiNatalists - but please consider what you've read here if you fall into the second category.
If you still consider yourself to be Pro Choice as well as AntiNatalist, we only ask three things of you:
Thank you!
- The r/prochoice mod team
r/prochoice • u/goldenskless • 10h ago
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r/prochoice • u/RudeProfessionaI • 15h ago
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r/prochoice • u/foodie_2598 • 19h ago
r/prochoice • u/baejamina • 1d ago
I can't believe the cruelty of people who would have forced me to wait and suffer to receive medical treatment with what I just experienced. I also can't understand anyone who would force someone to carry forward with a pregnancy who didn't want to do so.
I had a relatively simple miscarriage in medical terms - the fetus stopped progressing around 7 weeks for unknown reasons, and at week 10 I took mifepristone and misopristone to complete the miscarriage because my body had not yet dropped hormone levels. The process was horribly upsetting and painful. I badly wanted this pregnancy and I was deeply grateful that I could receive appropriate medical care by the accident of where I lived. The whole time, I could not help but keep thinking about how I was horrified that women elsewhere in my position were suffering due to puritanical policies.
I have always upheld the right of a woman's choice and donated to the Chicago Abortion Fund in my city. But this experience truly opened my eyes to how women are suffering around the country, whether through unwanted pregnancies or wanted pregnancies that do not go as planned.
I am heartbroken for all women who are suffering with pregnancy issues in anti-women areas. I am deeply broken by my loss but this feeling is only compounded by knowing there are women in other states dealing with so much worse.
I don't have any answers, but please please go to the polls these midterm elections. One election won't solve everything but I can only hope by consistently showing up at the polls that we can change things for women in the future.
r/prochoice • u/Fayette_ • 1d ago
r/prochoice • u/Stars_Satan • 2d ago
"If you can't love your disabled child, then don't have kids" is bullshit. A lot of the time, it's not about love or the lack of it. It's about resources and the lack of it that parent/s can access. If a child is going to be an adult but still require the care needed for a 5-year-old, it's going to cause financial strain if there is no support. And when there is, it's VERY hard to access a lot of the time. Some parents just do. not. have. the. recourses. even if they really wanna keep the pregnancy.
But even if someone wants to abort their fetus because they found out there's a high chance it's going to have a disability, that's honestly none of our business. Being pro-choice means that you support whatever decisions women make with their bodies, especially ones you disagree with, and thinking you have the moral high ground to shame them makes you no different from the people who protest against abortion outside abortion clinics.
r/prochoice • u/Darklight_101 • 20h ago
(sorry if this is the wrong flair, I wasn't sure which one to use)
A man came to my lawn in the middle of the night,
so I snuck out of bed and tried to give him a fright.
I ordered he leave and stay away from my garden,
instead he planted a seed at the wall's margin.
Time passed and I never knew of the seed,
and the rain watered it, and it grew like a weed.
First a few inches, and then a meter tall,
and the roots grew underground all through the fall.
I didn't find out 'til the vines climbed my house,
and it crushed my tiles, my arches and spouts!
It was too big now to harvest alone,
I asked for help before it was overgrown.
"No," they said. "That plant is alive!"
"If we remove it now then that plant will die!"
So it ruined my home, I have nowhere to live.
I asked why they didn't help, they said it was what I did.
"The plant was in your garden, it's your responsibility."
"Shouldn't have grown it if you hadn't the ability."
I did not plant it, it was forced in my soil,
and so it earned right to my home 'til it spoiled.
A home is a life, and mine was a temple.
A beacon of pride that never ever trembled.
But then that weed came and it was high maintenance,
and of course that old man never paid for the sustainment.
The ceilings slumped down and the cracks engorged,
and the home never returned to how it was before.
"It's not the plant's fault! It's innocent as a fly!"
They cared about a plant's life, but what about mine?
r/prochoice • u/clitorez • 1d ago
Hi Folks,
I’m looking to volunteer as a clinic escort and was wondering if anyone knew of places in the Bay Area that are looking for volunteers :) I’m also interested in other volunteer opportunities anything related to women’s health and advocacy. Thank you!
r/prochoice • u/Jazzyjasmin101 • 1d ago
I’m very active in social media, and as someone who doesn’t want kids and doesn’t like them, but is fully pro choice, i just think some pro choicers are so stupid, like i’m sorry😭 but hello?
I saw this video of a pro choice woman who got pregnant after trying to conceive for a while, and the comments were FULLLLLLL of “pro choicers.” saying that she should abort her healthy, wanted, expected and already loved fetus…?
Like, i’d somewhat understand comments like that if the pregnancy wasn’t healthy or wanted. But… the fetus was completely fine? and wanted?
Now, i support abortion in absolutely any scenario, but i just don’t get why some “pro choicers.” forget what the movement is. Pro CHOICE also applies when the woman is pregnant and wants to keep the pregnancy.
And if you want absolutely every fetus to be aborted, you’re not pro choice. You’re pro abortion.
I just think it absolutely ruins what actual pro choicers want for women. And it’s sad to see, because even if they’re jokes, it still harms the way people look at pro choicers.
r/prochoice • u/RudeProfessionaI • 2d ago
Why?
r/prochoice • u/Arktikos02 • 3d ago
r/prochoice • u/beauty4ndbrains • 3d ago
Imagine caring more about a fetus than the living woman carrying it. Imagine calling abortion “murder” while ignoring the women who die because they’re denied access to safe abortions.
If your ideology requires women to risk their lives just to satisfy your moral beliefs, maybe your morality isn't as righteous as you think it is.
I'm tired of people treating women's bodies like public property and reproductive rights like something they can vote away. If you support policies that put women's lives at risk, you should be held accountable for the consequences.
And honestly? Democracy shouldn't be an excuse to strip people of their fundamental human rights. The fact that a majority can vote to control someone else's body doesn't magically make it moral.
You don't get to call yourself pro-life while treating women's lives as expendable.
r/prochoice • u/lanadelrey7093 • 4d ago
They claim to be pro life and rant about how abortion is murder and killing a human being.
But once the baby is born, they do not care. They don’t care about children, or women. They don’t care that a woman can die because of the pregnancy or childbirth.
The fact that they only care about human life before it is born is absurd to me. I never see these people advocating for single mothers, orphans, refugees of war etc. The only time they are “pro life” and care about anyone, is when it is a fetus.
How is it pro life that you want to put many women through an unwanted pregnancy? How is it pro life to force a baby to be born without a loving home, ending up in foster care and everyone knows how horrible the foster care is?
How is it pro life to have babies born for a mother who is in poverty or in active addiction? How is it pro life to make women give up their hobbies, career, mental health, hopes and dreams just because their birth control failed?
I can go on and on.
r/prochoice • u/DontYaWishYouWereMe • 4d ago
r/prochoice • u/BigClitMcphee • 4d ago
r/prochoice • u/burtzev • 5d ago
r/prochoice • u/Safe-Designer-1853 • 5d ago
Today across all Poland at 18:00 in all major cities happened a protest to legalize abortion.
Ten years ago women in Poland came out on the streets and stood up against the government wanting to make abortion laws even stricter
Exactly 6 years ago the polish government band abortions. People in Poland were furious. They again went out to the streets and said their disapproval but it did nothing.
Three years ago a new political party won the votes of many women saying "within 100 days of getting elected we will legalize abortion" and they did nothing FOR THREE YEARS
Yesterday they passed an act that allows abortion but only in really strict circumstances. They only did that cause they were scared. They heard millions of people plan massive protests and they finally decided to do something. But today all of the planned protests happened. It was my first one and I have never felt so connected to a group of people. I lost my voice from shouting but I would rather lose my voice 1000 times more just so a women's life could be saved. Abortion saves life's and I won't let older men choose what to do with my body. And if you are a men reading this and you're thinking to yourself "it doesn't effect me" IT DOES. You probably have a mother, a sister, a cousin, a friend, a colleague and legal abortion can save their life.
r/prochoice • u/Intelligent_Cap7620 • 5d ago
Mi chiedo come si possa anteporre l’obiezione di coscienza di un medico alla possibilità di una donna di scegliere come affrontare una situazione così dolorosa e delicata. Voi cosa ne pensate?
r/prochoice • u/heartzzforhana • 5d ago
I mean, it's a no brainer but I mean it in a sense where pro-choicers genuinely seem to believe that the fetus deserves more human right's than the mother. And it's insane bc that means these people consider every single woman unworthy of her bodily autonomy. Their sisters, wives, doughters, mothers, everyone. And with every passing day I just feel like allowing anyone to think this way is harmful to a society as a whole, bc if you genuinely believe this woman doesn't deserve her human rights just because she might someday get pregnant then aren't you going to consider her as someone below you? A subhuman unworthy of their human rights? Idk, I'm lwk just spiraling atp but it's so scary to me as a 18 year old woman that this may be how man and politicians think of us woman someday.
r/prochoice • u/BigClitMcphee • 6d ago
r/prochoice • u/bloomberg • 7d ago
r/prochoice • u/tin8374 • 7d ago
That would be one of my platforms if I were to be a president. To create an amendment guaranteeing the right for all women to have access to abortions nationwide, no matter the term