r/boxoffice • u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner • Oct 26 '21
Other Dune Part 2 announced
https://twitter.com/Legendary/status/1453058884516466691?t=LlMoAHR1aKya4DCbwQxXEw&s=19285
u/SeraphAssassin13 Oct 26 '21
DESERT POWER
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u/FF5Ninja Oct 26 '21
Sorry, new to Dune (loved the movie), but one thing that confused me was the movie made it sound like the only way space travel can happen is through Spice. And if Arrakis is the only planet with Spice...how did they get there in the first place without space travel? May be a dumb question...
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u/skyheat Oct 26 '21
They can travel without spice. Spice just gives guild navigators limited future seeing capabilities which allows them to plot safe jump paths. Before that they were kinda shooting in the dark and it resulted in deaths and slow transport.
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u/throwaway1212l Oct 26 '21
Follow up. So is spice like a drug? Up until now, I thought it was some kind of fuel, lol.
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u/Voidling47 Oct 26 '21
The Spice Melange is a type of psycho-active drug that increases the human lifespan and grants very limited glimpses of the future to some people who take it - and that ability can be trained or enhanced. It is also extremely addictive and you die from withdrawal once addicted.
The Spacing Guild uses special engines to fold space, a technology that is a complete crapshoot to use (you lose the ship around 10% of the time) without specially mutated navigators. Those navigators use high doses of spice to predict the correct paths through the folded space to make space travel safe.
All of that is only really neccessary because "thinking machines" (i.e. advanced computers, capable of being used as AI) have been outlawed due to them being used to rule over mankind in the past. So you can't just use computers to predict the safest paths through folded space.
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u/natecull Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
Imagine if instead of oil, the global economy ran on LSD, because LSD in this universe gives you super mind powers including the ability to see the actual future. As long as you don't overdose, which will kill you if you're not the LSD Messiah.
Also if LSD is made from space dragons and there's also a secret society of LSD witches with Jungian Archetype and Kung Fu powers who are trying to breed the LSD Messiah, and computers and guns are banned because they don't make cool stories. And there's nukes, which are also banned, but bad guys still use them.
And it's LSD WWI (but with post-WW2 LSD oil politics), but the world has been run by the LSD Persian Empire for 10,000 years, and the LSD British (but cosplaying as ancient Greeks) are fighting an incredibly offensive propaganda version of the LSD Ottoman Turks (who are NOT the LSD Persians but are working with them), and LSD Lawrence of Arabia, who is also the LSD Messiah, is a teenager and recruiting LSD Arab tribes to fight both the LSD Turks and LSD Persians, ending in creating LSD Saudi Arabia, with space dragons, and him as LSD Mohammad.
(In later books he gets bored with being LSD Mohammad and becomes LSD Jesus, then his son becomes the LSD Pope and then creates LSD Atheism. Then things start getting weird.)
That's Dune. It was written in the 1960s - does it show?
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u/PainStorm14 Oct 26 '21
Imagine cocaine that costs as much as Palladium and once you are addicted to it you can never quit without dying
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u/Wizardrylullaby Oct 26 '21
You can see how the main character starts tripping balls when he’s under the influence of spice
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Oct 26 '21
Yes, it's a psychoactive chemical that lets people with the right genetic makeup see the future.
Remember Paul tripping balls on it in the movie?
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u/EdenDoesJams Oct 27 '21
The move really need to spend literally thirty more seconds explaining all of this. It’s the most important thing in the universe and people are coming out unsure what it actually is :(
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u/comingtogetyou Oct 27 '21
To add to this:
The settings is about year 24000 AD. They now denote the year as 10191 AG, for after the (space) guild was created. About 200 years prior to forming the space guild, humans waged a hundred or so long jihad against machines.
The present day universe in the movie no longer allows “thinking machines”. All computers have been replaced by the navigators, bene gesserit (such as Paul’s mother and the Reverend Mother), and mentats (human computers, ie the characters played by McKinley and Dastmalchian).
All of that is a long about way of saying that humans traveled space for about 11000 years with the help of computers.
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u/PepsiMoondog Oct 26 '21
Not a dumb question, but in the past they used artificial intelligence to travel between stars. After the Butlerian Jihad (human vs AI civil war), AI was outlawed. So before then spice was not necessary, but now it is.
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u/Lulamoon Oct 26 '21
this is the lore answer. they used computers to colonise space, then had to ban them, and luckily found spice which allowed space travel to continue their absence
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u/fijistudios Oct 26 '21
They can just guess without spice. And they used to in the books. It was just 1 in 6 ships ended up arriving in a star or something and got destroyed. Basically it was Russian roulette until spice made special people able to calculate the safe route to travel.
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u/lkn240 Oct 26 '21
Travel is possible without the spice (or at least was in the distant past)... but much more dangerous without a spice mutated navigator.
Keep in mind that by the time of Dune the Spacing Guild has had a completely monopoly on interstellar travel for over 10,000 years - so what travel was like in the pre-Guild days is ancient, ancient history. It's like us trying to imagine a world without agriculture
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Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
So basically, Spice isn't actually fueling the space-folding massive starships called Heighlingers.
Space travel is still possible without Spice, it uses a gigantic engine to fold space. However, folding space without Spice is a very dangerous prospect, many ships were lost in pre-Spice space travel.
Mutant humans called Guild Navigators use Spice to see briefly into the future using a limited form of prescience (much more limited than Paul's is), which allows them to chart a safe path for the ships folding space. The film had to skip over a lot of this stuff for the sake of time, the lack of explanation of the Spacing Guild was probably one of the biggest omissions.
Basically, Spice doesn't fuel interstellar travel but it makes it safe and reliable. There's also the fact that advanced computers (even our level of computing) are completely outlawed and have been for many thousands of years. The ships cant have computers to help chart the way like they did in the ancient past, when Arrakis was first discovered.
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u/comingtogetyou Oct 27 '21
As someone who is just now reading the book but did see the 1984 film, they are not really explaining the spacing guild in the first part of Dune either. The biggest omission is the world building of what CHOAM and the economy looks like imo, which is understandable to me as it was pretty dry dialogues to put in the movie.
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u/DanDamage12 Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
Space travel is dangerous, but not impossible, without spice enhanced humans (navigators) or a “thinking machine.” They used to have computers travel for them but because 1- humans used them to subjugate people, and 2- they caused humanity to become reliant on them and stagnant they have been all destroyed and outlawed. Spice heightens ones awareness so much that they can calculate and perceive patterns so well that it seems like they are predicting the future. So they use spice to do the calculations and maneuvers needed to travel safely.
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u/napaszmek Oct 27 '21
Navigators are semi-prescient so they can see in advance how to steer the space folding ship without colliding with a star. Before that they used to go by chance, and even before that they had navigational computers (but machines were outlawed after the Butlerian Jihad)
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u/natecull Oct 26 '21
I always asked myself that, back when I read the book.
I think the answer is "please don't ask that question, it ruins the plot".
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 26 '21
OK, I got to say as someone with a basic knowledge of warfare I have to ask: how does the ability to fight in deserts rank in the same level as non-desert land power, sea power, and air power? It feels like it's only relevant because Arrakis had a lot of (all?) spice so having base knowledge of fighting in the desert would be necessary going forward.
BTW, "desert power" was an issue in WWII, when fighting in North Africa taught the participants that just because deserts are flat (ish) does not mean tanks will not have issues with all the dust and such everywhere...
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u/wiseguy149 Oct 26 '21
Arrakis is indeed the only planet in the universe where spice has been discovered, and the deserts of Arrakis specifically are where it's found. So the ability to fight in and rule the desert is extremely relevant for that reason alone.
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u/adamception Oct 26 '21
Desert power is essential to dominating Arrakis which in turn leads to control of the spice. And he who controls the spice controls the universe.
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u/Konman72 Oct 26 '21
This statement was oddly missing from Dune Part 1. However, now it will be even more impactful if used in Part 2 so I'm good with it. They explained how important Spice is, but I don't know that the audience felt it. It's oil, salt, and every drug (illegal and medicinal) all rolled into one with life extension added on as a bonus.
So yeah, whoever has Desert Power is basically the richest and most powerful person in the universe simply because Spice is only found in the desert.
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u/AllFromFourSymbols Oct 26 '21
The statement is missing because it was never in the book, just the 1984 movie. Also, "desert power" doesn't really mean control of spice production. More like that the fremen are completely badass. They fucking
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u/napaszmek Oct 27 '21
It's missing because it's obvious. Spice makes spacehips go vroom. Spice gives you money. Arrakis is the only planet with spice.
You don't need to be a mentat to know how important it is to rule Arrakis.
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u/Worthyness Oct 26 '21
Well when the planet is almost entirely desert, knowing how to fight and navigate it effectively is incredibly important for combat.
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Oct 26 '21
Spice is by far the most valuable substance in the Dune universe, and it's only found on Arrakis.
Controlling the deserts where its harvested is absolutely vital for maintaining power in the scenario House Atriedes was put in.
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u/techcaleb Oct 26 '21
The relationship isn't completely coincidence. Herbert was a WWII vet which is why so much of the military stuff feels real in the book. Though I think he said that the Florence dunes were the initial inspiration for the book.
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u/PainStorm14 Oct 26 '21
We are the Sardaukar. The Emperor's blades. Those who stand against us - fall
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Oct 26 '21
Seems like they were holding out just to make sure part 1 didn't completely bomb. Will be curious to see how this does with a full theatrical release!
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u/IVIaskerade Oct 26 '21
I get them being gun-shy after 2049's performance, but I also feel like they were mostly on-board with it already and were just holding out a little bit so the threshold wasn't particularly high.
In fact, if they're making this announcement now the actual decision was probably made yesterday at 9.15am.
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u/kid-karma Oct 26 '21
i think them not confirming a part 2 until now was them basically just giving themselves an escape hatch in case part 1 did abysmal numbers.
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u/hatramroany Oct 27 '21
Yeah a release date and the cast and crew on board for a movie that was green lit today? That’s not how things works, this was obviously green lit months ago
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u/kid-karma Oct 27 '21
just no official announcement so they could sweep it under the rug if necessary
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u/voidfishsushi Oct 26 '21
Especially given that every principal actor/stakeholder that’s on social media had coordinated tweets announcing Part 2, yesterday was almost assuredly decision day, calling the agents, coordinating the announcement, getting some press lined up, etc.
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u/IVIaskerade Oct 26 '21
I meant more that the office opened at 9am, and once everyone has settled in with a coffee in the meeting room the first words were "part 2 is approved".
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u/awake-at-dawn Oct 26 '21
We did it r/boxoffice !
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u/Nexus0317 Oct 26 '21
Can’t believe this movie got me addicted to looking at box office numbers lol
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u/UnknownFiddler Oct 26 '21
Me too. I haven't been on here much since Covid.
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u/Whovian45810 Oct 26 '21
Same. Just happy to talk and look about box office numbers after a year hiatus.
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u/Worthyness Oct 26 '21
Well COVID killed a lot of things, including this sub. I'm just glad we got the Endgame shenanigans in the sub before that
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u/Pokesaurus_Rex Oct 26 '21
That’s the thrill of the Box Office! I think the last time this sub was so active was tracking how high Endgame would go and if it would beat Avatar.
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u/Smugallo Oct 26 '21
Yeah box office number are quite addicting actually. Sometimes you get surprised.
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u/ILoveRegenHealth Oct 26 '21
IMDB, back when it had forums, used to be a good place to talk about Box Office every weekend.
The toxic trolls didn't even touch that part of the forums (too busy trolling major releases instead).
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u/Radulno Oct 26 '21
I mean r/boxoffice was more wanting it to fail considering the predictions (and how everyone always want to be right in their predictions)
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u/DamienChazellesPiano Oct 26 '21
It generally seems like people love the movie here, people were just hesitant to think it would do better than Denis’ last big budget movie, so people went on the cautious side with predictions. I didn’t see a lot of people actively wanting it to fail.
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u/So-_-It-_-Goes Oct 26 '21
There were quite a few people around here making insane predictions.
I was downvoted many times for calling the comparisons to John Carter ridiculous. I was told many many times around here this movie was not going to be a hit and part two was never going to happen.
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u/pedroktp Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
Good, now the comments asking people to go to theatres can stop
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Oct 26 '21
The studio really suckered those people in.
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u/DamienChazellesPiano Oct 26 '21
True. I felt cheated going to see this movie on an IMAX screen with Dolby sound…
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Oct 26 '21
You do know it was always planned and they suckered you into going to the theater, right?
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u/fartedinmyownmouth Oct 27 '21
Those people sure got suckered by going to the theatre to watch a good movie.
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u/theironfight Oct 26 '21
“This is only the beginning” makes it sound like there might be a part 3
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u/Animegamingnerd Oct 26 '21
Yup. Villeneuve has said he wants to Messiah after Part 2 to have a complete trilogy and HBO Max is working on a prequel series. Its more possible that Dune could end up being one of the defying franchises of the 2020s.
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Oct 26 '21
Fine with me here
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Oct 26 '21
Would be a great relief from the constant onslaught of CBM shoved down our throats. Dune went out of its way to limit CGI/green screen and spent its budget more wisely with practical sets and costumes. THIS is how you make a damn blockbuster.
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u/TheJoshider10 Oct 26 '21
House Atreides vs House Harkkonen will be to the 2020s what Stark vs Lannister was to the 2010s.
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u/DisneyDreams7 Oct 26 '21
I strongly doubt it since House Harkonnen has no interesting characters outside of Feyd and the Baron. The conflict will be one-sided if one group’s characters are nowhere near as interesting as the others.
In Game of Thrones both factions had very interesting characters for both the book and the show.
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u/DamienChazellesPiano Oct 26 '21
Isn’t it just literally a quote from the movie? Just sounds like they’re using the quote to hype up part 2.
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Oct 26 '21
There are like 10 books at this point so as long as the box office continues to grow/ HBO Max views cover the costs they could continue to make them for the next decade though i expect villeneuve will bow out after 2 or 3 is wrapped.
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u/nascentia Oct 27 '21
The main series is 6 or 8 books depending on where you draw the line - Frank Herbert died after Chapterhouse Dune came out (book 6) and it was decades later before his son and another writer “finished” the series with two more books allegedly based on a rough manuscript for Dune 7.
They’re a decent end to the series but very clearly go against what Frank was setting up and take some hard turns. I think they’re OK.
Beyond that, the pair have written a shit load of prequel and spin off books at this point. I know there’s a trilogy on the Butlerian Jihad, some Great Houses books, a few on main characters like Paul…it could be 20 total books in the Dune series now, but most of them are BAD. I can stomach the final two main series ones they worked up but I stopped reading the first book of the Butlerian Jihad trilogy because it was awful.
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u/So-_-It-_-Goes Oct 26 '21
This could turn into a massive franchise if they do it right. There is so much potential in the books. And tons of room for expansion.
The idea of Butlerian Jihad could become an amazing trilogy on its own way down the line. A mix of matrix and terminator.
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u/aduong Oct 26 '21
For those familiar with the source material, is there a story beyond part 2? I know there are several books but are those sequels books or just spin offs and such?
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u/TinMachine Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 27 '21
It’s divided up like:
Dune, Dune Messiah focus on Paul. Dune Messiah could be the third film in a neat, coherent and fairly straightforwardly adaptable story. Messiah is an amazing book imo. The series could stop after film 2 or film 3 and feel fairly complete imo.
Children of Dune covers the next generation (and could feasibly be adapted into another two-parter). It is significantly weirder than the prior 3 (edit, 2) books but would work if you found the right lead actor (James McAvoy led the 00s tv series adaption).
From there on there’s a further series of books, which are good but not easily adaptable - they’re philosophical and cover thousands of years. Think of them as The Silmarillion to the prior entries’s Lord of the Rings.
There’s also a series of spin-offs, prequels and sequels (Frank died before finishing book 7) written by Frank’s son and Kevin J Anderson. These are complete ass, funded by completionists who hate-buy them. No one likes them.
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u/Kostya_M Oct 26 '21
In my opinion they need to at least do Children. That's the end of the main story started in Dune. It feels incomplete otherwise.
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u/akumajfr Oct 26 '21
I didn’t realize that was McAvoy in the miniseries. I rather enjoyed it, though I might be in a minority.
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u/Konman72 Oct 26 '21
Nope, both were excellent (despite the high school play level budget) imo and were well received at the time. Children especially felt like it delivered very well considering the limitations of a made-for-TV miniseries.
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u/morus_rubra Oct 26 '21
Those books are not great. but I think that all Preludes and trilogy about Butlerian Jihad have a good movie / miniseries potential. I do not want to read it again but I would enjoy it on screen.
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u/DjangoLeone Oct 26 '21
I’m curious, I don’t know the stories of Dune but I was recently discussing The 3 Body Problem which is going into production as a TV series right now and my friend said it spans 100’s of billions of years but that it would be quite adaptable to filming. Is there something aside from the time span that makes those Dunes too strange to film?
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u/So-_-It-_-Goes Oct 26 '21
Small edit. Children is the third book. Weirder than the prior two would be accurate.
Frank wrote the first three as a trilogy and IMO that would be the ideal starting off point. Get to those three. Because children really gets into the golden purpose.
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u/thedude391 Oct 26 '21
Realistically they can do the second book Dune Messiah (it’s very light but if you mix it with part 2 and other stuff it could work as a trilogy capper). Afterwards the books get way way way too weird to even attempt adapting. Even the Syfy series stopped at the third book, any further and it’s unadaptable.
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u/Block-Busted Oct 26 '21
I'm not sure if he's going to merge Dune Messiah with the next part since that book apparently takes place about 12 years after the first book.
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u/Radulno Oct 26 '21
IIRC he said he planned 2 movies for the first book, and one for Dune Messiah. I don't think he wants to continue after that trilogy.
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u/Block-Busted Oct 26 '21
Can't say I'm surprised about this. He probably just wants to complete "Paul Atreides trilogy". :P
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u/expelir Oct 26 '21
I've read that Messiah is actually planned as part 3, which makes way more sense.
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u/Cranyx Oct 26 '21
I keep hearing people say this, and I really don't understand why Children of Dune would be any less adaptable than Messiah.
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u/Kostya_M Oct 26 '21
Children of Dune is weird but it just feels wrong to not do it IMO. I can see an argument for not doing God Emperor or anything beyond it but Children is the end of the main story in my view.
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u/johnstark2 Oct 26 '21
God Emperor would be extremely difficult to adapt especially as a movie, IMO the sets and CGI required, Jason Mamoa would be too old to be a convincing ghola but they could work around that, explaining the golden path for a movie or tv audience would be super hard without just constant voice over narration and exposition
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u/ILoveRegenHealth Oct 26 '21
Even the Syfy series stopped at the third book, any further and it’s unadaptable.
Can you (or someone) give a basic idea why it's unadapatable? Do you mean it's much slower and not enough action for a movie. Or does the Duniverse politics start getting too complicated, with even more unpronouncable names and factions?
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u/Bored_at_Work27 Oct 26 '21
There is a 3000 year time skip between 3 and 4. And the main character is a giant worm
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u/WhatGravitas Oct 26 '21 edited Oct 26 '21
Big 3500 year time skip is one big factor. It's basically dealing with the long-term aftermath of what started in Dune. On top of that, it becomes a lot more philosophical. And oh, the eponymous "god-emperor" is essentially a human sandworm.
Not trying to go into much more detail but all three of these make it a lot less easy to adapt visually.
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u/Justin_Credible98 Oct 26 '21
Afterwards the books get way way way too weird to even attempt adapting. Even the Syfy series stopped at the third book, any further and it’s unadaptable.
IMO, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune are both adaptable to film as long as certain liberties are taken, and as long as you hire a director and crew who are talented and creative enough. There isn't anything inherently un-cinematic about the central premise of either of those books.
That said, if we get film adaptations of those books there are definitely going to be a lot of things that will have to be tweaked.
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Oct 26 '21
Without spoiling the books, yeah there is a continuation of what we saw on book 1. But for me book 1 it's the main draw
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u/Animegamingnerd Oct 26 '21
Yes, Dennis has said he wants to adapt the second book Dune Messiah (which is only half the length of the first book) as the closing part to a trilogy.
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u/Caciulacdlac Oct 26 '21
The movie adapted just half of the first book. So the next one will adapt the second half, and then there are 5 more books from the same author, and 2 more from his son after Herbert's death.
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u/scemcee Oct 26 '21
The story goes on for thousands of years, but would become increasingly difficult to film, not to mention watch.
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u/Ezio926 Oct 26 '21
They're straight up sequels. Villeneuve is only planning to do a trilogy tho. With 1-2 adapting the first book, and the final one adapting Dune: Messiah.
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u/Smugallo Oct 26 '21
Yes. Dune: Messiah i consider to be a very important part of pauls arc. Children of Dune as well. God Emperor there is a 3000 year time jump lol.
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u/Urabutbl Oct 26 '21
Ignore the morons. The full story is the first four books, or at the very least the first three.
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u/IVIaskerade Oct 26 '21
Yes, but beyond Messiah (the second book in the series) it becomes very difficult to adapt because it's less science fiction and more philosophy.
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u/lkn240 Oct 26 '21
The 6 Frank Herbert books are sequels (note they do get a lot weirder). There are other books (many are spinoffs) written by his son, but they are of dubious quality (and that's being kind) and much of the fanbase does not consider them canon.
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u/ComradeSomo Oct 27 '21
The fourth book is the best in the series, but it would also be the hardest to adapt.
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u/blueblurz94 Oct 26 '21
If Zendaya was in approximately 3% of the first film, then she must be in around 97% of the second film.
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u/Block-Busted Oct 26 '21
This also means that we're getting TWO completely different types of major space opera films in 2023 - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 and Dune: Part 2.
Yup. It's colorful and fun space opera vs. gritty and dark space opera. Bring it on, Gunn and Villeneuve! 😁
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u/NotTaken-username Oct 26 '21
Colorful and fun will destroy gritty and dark at the box office, but it’s up in the air which will be better
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u/FiestaPotato18 Oct 26 '21
Confirmed for October 2023 by Deadline.