Just moved and in the fun decorating phase!

Rereading (listening) again and I just finished the scene where Shallan enters the war camps for the first time. At this point she’s survived assassins and being shipwreck. Then not only makes it to the war camps. She secures a neutral place for herself to stay. The loyalty of a group of shoulders that have seen her to be capable and honest (ironically). And convinces Dalinar to continue the causal. The girl is a badass.

Oh and Pattern is the best spren. I love him

Thought you guys might like them!

EDIT: Yes I understand there bottom two are "misspelled". This was intentional. Names have to be unique, so I am not able to claim a name someone else already has.

About mid-way through Oathbringer and I have to get this off my chest.

I love love love this series, but I HATE how the cast treats Kaladin and his hatred of Lighteyes. The narrative at times openly acknowledges prejudice in various forms throughout the book, and highlights the inequality between the Darkeyes and Lighteyes. But as soon as Kaladin says something about it, he's suddenly the bad guy?

I'm on Chapter 69 and Kal is commenting on how the Lighteyes are throwing a fancy party during this war while there are refugees starving on the streets. And then Skar and Drehy start comparing it to having a drink at the bar during a war or having parties when hiding in storm shelters.

Kaladin then astutely comments, "It's not the same," and "You taking their side?"

Then Drehy responds "Are there sides?" and that's the end of that.

... Drehy and Skar WHY are you riding these Lighteyes so hard? You KNOW it's not the same.

This reminded me of this one part in WOR where Kaladin said something critical about Lighteyes, but Shallan pointed out Adolin being jokey to some Darkeyed guys and letting them try on his helmet. And Kaladin somehow loses that argument. Like this caste system directly caused extreme trauma for him and millions like him, but somehow that's okay because one (1) Lighteyed Prince is cordial to his underlings.

I love Adolin, but for every Adolin there's a hundred Roshones and Sadeas' and Amarams. Adolin being a good Lighteyes on an individual level does not ERASE the MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HARM that this caste system allows Lighteyes to inflict on Darkeyes. Is Kaladin not completely correct in calling out this IS an oppressive class system?

Anyways, I get what Sanderson is maybe trying to do by showing there's good and bad people in both castes, and you shouldn't make generalizations about a group of people. But it feels like Kaladin is the ONLY one learning that lesson while the Lighteyed characters are hardly ever challenged on their beliefs. For example, Dalinar just met with the Azish, and he had a brief moment of reconciling the incorrect assumptions they had about each other's cultures. But all Dalinar got from that was "Well, we don't treat our Darkeyes like slaves so they're wrong about us." Hm yeah except when your vassals enslave them 😐 but like whatever I guess.

So I already skimmed other forum discussions about this, and it seems like it never really gets properly addressed, which is a real shame because Kaladin’s struggle as a Darkeyed guy in this society was one of the things that made me fall in love with his character and this world.

Anyways viva la revolution also I miss Eshonai.

(Edit: I’ve realized that I’m currently reading book 2. One English book ends up being the equivalent of two German books—likely, once again, due to translations that could use some improvement...)

Just so you know where I am: I'm on Book 4, page 600 of the German edition. About 20 pages or so after Kaladin realizes that Elhokar is Dalinar's Tien. The great battle with the Parshmen is just beginning.

And I'm no longer entirely sure I understand the logic behind the series.

The humans are now referring to the Parshendi as Voidbringers, and Dalinar believes that the Desolation is imminent or has already begun.

But the events don't really fit together. They correlate in time, but that's about it.

At the beginning of the first book, a Desolation has just ended. We learn about the Oathpact. One Herald dies. According to the story, he must be reborn somehow, because the two humans talk about how "this time" only one of them died.

Based on the logic Sanderson has applied in his other books, I assume that Desolations begin whenever the Heralds return to Roshar. In the meantime, they exist somewhere else, and there's an implication that they're subjected to torture, which eventually broke the other nine.

Since the Desolations are clearly not cyclical, that leaves us with two possibilities.

Possibility 1: Odium, or someone else, can freely determine when they occur.

Or, more likely, possibility 2: The timing of a Desolation is determined by how long the Heralds can endure the torture.

But now Rlain says that the Parshendi's Stormform would bring Odium back. And Odium's return is essentially synonymous with the beginning of a Desolation.

But I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Stormform could have been discovered much earlier. It's possible that Odium whispered something to Venli, meaning that, as Eshonai seems to suggest, Venli already knew what the transformation would actually do before it happened. But Odium is supposedly "gone", so I think it's reasonable to assume that he fundamentally cannot influence Roshar directly.

As for the Ghostbloods, I assume they aren't affiliated with Odium, but are hunting Surgebinders for other reasons (possibly religious ones). If Odium could exert that much influence over Roshar by manipulating people, he wouldn't need a Desolation to drive humanity to the brink of extinction.

And even if Venli's knowledge came from Odium, that still has nothing to do with how long the Heralds can endure the torture.

So, the events may correlate in time, but the causal link is missing.

Am I right or wrong and where and what is my missing part?

Wondering if anyone has gotten a rainspren tattoo before or done any fan art! I am hoping to get a small, minimalist rainspren (also to represent being from the PNW) for my forearm. TIA!

I'm rereading the audiobooks with my partner and I've noticed that I haven't heard any descriptions of any of the artwork that's between some chapters, like the maps of war camps or drawings in Shallan's sketchbook. When did they remove them from the audiobooks? Are there different versions that still have these descriptions? I'm rereading them on Libby, same as I did the first time I read them and I remember the audio descriptions because I would look up the artwork after each new one and compare it to how I had pictured it in my head. Just really confused that they aren't there at all anymore and couldn't find any info on why, or anyone acknowledging that they've been removed at all. It's annoying because I don't know which pieces of art are between which chapters so I'm worried about looking at them with my partner on Brandon's website and spoiling something :/

im in chapter 66 of WOR. BRUH WHY DID KALADIN GIVE THE SHARDPLATE AND SHARDBLADE TO MOASH OF ALL PEOPLE??? moash is like the most volatile of all the bridgemen. bro tried to kill elhokar. WHYYYY

sorry i have no one in my life to talk to about this amazing series

edit: just read further and am reading how kaladin agrees with moash and his friends now

I literally hate Teravangian! As Odium he's a flat out prick! Manipulative, snide, arrogant. I had to pause several times during the debate with him and Fen and Yasna. I wanted to punch him in the face so bad I had to stop and breath and cringe hard core. I kept yelling "POINT OUT THAT HE IS THE GREATER THREAT!" and then he said he could protect her people "forever" and I shouted "POINT OUT THE DEAL ONLY LASTS A THOUSAND YEARS, NOT FOREVER!"

Ugh I hate him so much. I hope they kill him off lol

Ok end rant.