r/Stormlight_Archive • u/Waatulakula • 8h ago
Wind and Truth spoilers I can’t understand the Shallan hate. Spoiler
Rereading (listening) again and I just finished the scene where Shallan enters the war camps for the first time. At this point she’s survived assassins and being shipwreck. Then not only makes it to the war camps. She secures a neutral place for herself to stay. The loyalty of a group of shoulders that have seen her to be capable and honest (ironically). And convinces Dalinar to continue the causal. The girl is a badass.
Oh and Pattern is the best spren. I love him
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- 7h ago
Cackling at loyalty of a group of shoulders.
Shallan is fine, but that doesn't mean she is free from criticism. Regarding spren, I don't know why we'd compare to find "best", but if I was going to put forth a best it would be Maya.
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u/query_tech_sec 5h ago
Um, no one said she is “free from criticism” - OP is just pushing back on the hate for her and pointing out (some of many) - cool things about her.
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u/Flower-Panda 7h ago
My dislike for Shallan is moreso because of her plotlines. As a character I think shes perfectly fine and even interesting. If she was a character in a completely different novel, Id probably enjoy her story a lot. I just hate how she's utilized in Stormlight. Just one example is her involvement with the ghostbloods and mraize. I feel like it truly never really went anywhere. Another is how a lot of what she does, doesnt contribute to anything. I feel like she should have more of an impact on things but it just doesnt seem she ever does.
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u/Comfortable-Mine-471 4h ago
This sums up my feelings too. I like shallan in theory, in practice she's utilized in a boring and lowkey annoying way. Her character had a lot of potential, but it never went anywhere.
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 2h ago edited 2h ago
I think she’s going to be very important to the second half. Her path keeps overlapping with the Unmade. It culminates in the release of Ba-Ado in book 5. She’s instrumental to that and it’s what the GB story and Shallan’s story were building toward. Her release is how Dalinar was able to align Honor properly at the end to make his play. Renarin’s story too. She’s been influencing his visions from the start
The problem is that we’ve been intentionally kept in the dark about the nature of the Unmade. I think Shallan’s importance will be clearer in the second half. Once we learn what the Unmade are and when they become more involved in the main plot. Ba-Ado and Sja are certainly important for the next 5. I would guess there’s more to Shallan than we know now and her triple nature is probably tied to something else it’s building to. In the way Kaladin’s arc was building toward The Wind. Which was only clear very late in the game. Despite it being there from the first chapter
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 2h ago
I have a suspicion that Retribution isn’t the primary threat in the second half. I think there’s probably something worse being built toward. At least for Roshar. Something we’ll see in the Heralds’ upcoming flashbacks that crosses over with Renarin’s and Jasnah’s vaguely ominous backstories. Something tied to whatever Braize’s real function is and whatever is happening at the Origin. I think Shallan will be instrumental to whatever that threat is. Just like Kaladin was to the refounding of the Oathpact and Dalinar was to Honor and the Contest
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u/Lindlar_ 1h ago
Shallan's story is actually compelling for the first two books, but it's highly overshadowed by the amazing Bridge Four storyline to the point that you just can't wait to finish this Shallan chapter and get back to Kaladin.
With Oathbringer her storyline starts to become more and more disjointed with the rest of cast.
By Rhythm of War and ultimately Wind and Truth, the Ghostbloods arc is so far beyond what is actually happening with greater Roshar. And tbh, if you're not a Cosmere enthusiast like me, I barely care about it anymore and it just further downgrades the reading experience.
Shallan has her moments and she's badass. I wish she were more involved in the war for roshar tho.
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u/IgnorantAndApathetic 6m ago
I really like her story, I just don't like her. Her jokes aren't funny and her "clever" quips are mostly just cringe. Interestingly for a lot of people it's the opposite
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u/mori_no_ando 7h ago
I mean there’s a lot of Shallan discourse posts you can go back and read lol
Personally I get it if someone doesn’t really like her, there’s not too much to say if someone just thinks she’s not funny or whatever.
Usually when people try to explain themselves though, they tend to say a bunch of things that her character actually shares with Kaladin, but of course they typically don’t also dislike Kaladin. Because he is more ‘badass?’ Because he’s a man? Who knows
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u/Feudalistic 7h ago
I don't hate her. I just think she's crazy lmao.
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u/Waatulakula 7h ago
She is. That’s what makes it better. She’s got some real trauma and still pushes on.
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u/demiandimi 3h ago
I wouldn't say i hate her but i do get annoyed at her, i specially dislike her chapters in Oathbringer and RoW.
As you say WoR is her best book by far, her plot is interesting, she interacts a lot with the other POV's, her actions actively shape the story of that book, fun all around.
Then as others have said, in WoK, she's so far away from the plains that it takes you out, i can appreciate all the setup that's going on, i don't find it particularly boring but it's just not as entertaining as the rest.
Then i actively dislike her chapters in Oathbringer, the split personalities don't hit at all with me, "I'm so bad at xxxx, unlike Veil/Radiant who knows about this stuff", i don't even remember what she does in Kholinar.
In RoW the split personalities just keep being annoying, i really like her plot that book (More for Adolin, Pattern, Maya) but again, at times it's just annoying to read her.
In WaT she gets better to read but i can't say i was too invested in her plot.
Again, i don't hate her she has probably the best backstory out of all the main POVs but IMO if you don't click with her, her chapters in Oathbringer and RoW get annoying pretty quickly, even moreso in rereads.
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u/Plus-Season-272 7h ago
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Shallan is Sanderson’s main vessel for comedy in Stormlight. And if you don’t find Sanderson particularly funny, or thinks he often comes off as corny/cringy(I love Sando, but his comedic chops aren’t always there tbh) it may rub off on how you see Shallan’s character. Personally I found myself rolling my eyes at a lot of Shallan’s quips and one-liners.
Or maybe it’s just misogyny. Who knows lol
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u/secretly_opossum 7h ago
For me (halfway through OB), it’s that whenever she is faced with an opportunity to improve her situation she usually takes the WORST of a myriad of options 😂
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow 7h ago
I think I can understand it from people who haven’t finished book 4 and don’t do rereads. She gains a lot from perspective.
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u/OriginalSymmetry 7h ago
I actually didn’t find her annoying at all until book 4. Then she was fine again in book 5. But RoW Shallan was very difficult for me.
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u/Capital_Order_55 7h ago
Maybe it was because of the narrator but I always loved her chapters in twok it brought a different vibe then kal and dalinar and I found myself asking where is shallan When she didnt appear for like 100 chapters
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u/Neptune-Jnr 4h ago
Pattern is awesome, but for me a combo of things kills likability for Shallan
She usually tries super hard to keep information from the audience, like she'll remember something iinteresting about her past or something cool will happen in the present but then she represses that memory or trauma and ignores it. Which even if realistic just doesn't make for a interesting character
Her subplots usually distract from the main story as oppose to add to it. When some Shallan chapter come up it feel weirdly side questy especially in the first and third books
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u/P3verall 6h ago
for the first book we get introduced to kaladin doing death defying dope shit and get interrupted by shallan studying, it left a bad taste in some peoples’ mouths
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u/Cold-Nose-7509 6h ago
I only really dislike her in WoK, when her storyline is DRAMATICALLY less interesting than anything Dalinar and Kaladin are doing. It messes with the pacing of the book IMO, especially because nothing of her plot really ties into the main plot until book 2.
After that she’s still probably my least favorite main character (don’t really care for her humor) but “least favorite main character in Stormlight” is not much of a slight when Stormlight is my favorite series of all time by far lol
I especially enjoyed her in OB.
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 2h ago
I’d agree that her stuff is usually less exciting than those two in WoK. But her chapters are really dense in world building. A ton of what we know about Roshar’s wildlife, nations, history, peoples, religion etc is introduced there. They don’t have the same excitement/mystery as what’s going on at the Plains, but she’s there to introduce Roshar itself to us in WoK. All of the rest build on that base
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u/cheersfurbeers 2h ago edited 2h ago
I haven’t completed the series. Halfway through Oathbringer.
I don’t hate her, but up to this point she is a coward. Obviously this leads to her discovering new ways to use her powers, but Veil is quite literally a veil over Shallan’s eyes. To protect her from her fear.
I’m sure she faces her fear, and accepts her past in some way, but as of right now, she’s a coward running away from the consequences of her past trauma. It’s annoying, but understandable, as I recognize it hopefully will have some cool purpose.
Pattern is curious. All spren are to me at this point lol.
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u/gde7 1h ago
Tell you what Shallan isn't as funny as she thinks she is, or even Sanderson thinks she is..... But....saying that
When she pulls that thing for the first time, even though it was hinted at. I was shocked 😲 and you don't often get that in books!!
I have more hate for Adolin, I don't like the Mr perfect, nice to everyone, liked by everyone schtick. I like people to be a bit of a mix of good and bad.
That's why I really liked the Abercrombie books, world building is there but such rich and varied characters
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u/princesalacruel 0m left
I didn’t know there was Shallan hate (new here because I wanted to finish WAT before engaging here). She’s some of my favorite characters.
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u/EnderBaggins 7h ago
Shallan is primarily a victim of Sanderson breaking one of his own rules, which is that rather than showing shallan being funny we’re told she is. By people around her, by her own internal dialogue, but never by Shallan actually being funny, or clever, or even mildly amusing.
I say this as someone who thoroughly enjoys her chapters in both of the first two books.
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u/bouche1336 6h ago
I saw a comment once saying they hated Shallan when physically reading but didn't mind her when listening to the audiobook. Idk if that holds water or not, I just saw someone say it
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u/ReviewOk929 7h ago
I love her to start with and whilst that doesn’t maintain all the way through, I do still very much enjoy her character
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u/must_be_nice69 4h ago
I struggle to enjoy Shallan because she hits too close to home. My MIL has DID. It is.. not good and has caused so much trauma for my wife. I honestly just wish Brandon had left it alone.
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u/Scared_Yoghurt_4912 7h ago
Oh its easy to explain. Misogynism
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u/P3verall 6h ago
ye, some of it, but also it was a tactical error to have her studying breaking up kaladin’s action scenes in the first book
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u/query_tech_sec 5h ago
I mean - yeah it was super boring. But that’s only the first book and honestly - I am listening to WoK again and it’s just kind of boring all around and I am 1/3 of the book in. I didn’t think it got interesting until the final 3rd of the book and that’s almost entirely the battle stuff - which of course Shallan isn’t a part of.
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u/durrandons 1h ago
I don't dislike Shallan much, I find her character has a lot of potential. But I dislike what other characters become when they are around her. There are situations where I wish other characters would push back more on what she says or thinks, to just react more and to not let it all slide. I feel like there simply needs to be more friction, and I'd enjoy her more.
And I also have a few issues with how Veil was done, and the general writing around Shallan's privileges.
Otherwise, misogyny. I don't find it fair to reduce criticism to only that, but it is a part of it, it always is.
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u/bouche1336 6h ago
I saw a comment once saying they hated Shallan when physically reading but didn't mind her when listening to the audiobook. Idk if that holds water or not, I just saw someone say it
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u/Go_Sith_Yourself 7h ago
Have you only read up to WoR? In our experience, these posts very quickly attract spoilers beyond that book and so, if you have read further, the spoiler flair should be changed.