r/AskHouston • u/revveduplikeaduece86 • 19h ago
Left Turns
I'm a transplant from Detroit, and have been here for almost three years.
Left turns are ... interesting. Case and point:
- Kirby & Westheimer: when you have a SOLID GREEN š¢ light, you yield to opposing traffic on your left turn. Look it up on Google Maps if you don't believe me. I live right near this intersection so I see, with alarming regularity, near-miss accidents all the time because this is the most confusing signal arrangement I've ever seen.
BUT! Just down the road at
- Kirby & Alabama: when you have a FLASHING YELLOW š” light, you yield to opposing traffic on your left turn. The reason I'm calling this out is, literally from one major road to the next, there's no consistency in how traffic signaling works. It's like whoever showed up for work that day picked their personal favorite to program the signaling.
In Michigan, it's very simple: on a left, solid green means you have the right of way, you're not yielding to anyone. Again, on a left, a flashing yellow means you can go but look out for opposing traffic. And of course, red means stop. There is no other light signaling for left turns. And more importantly, EVERY. SINGLE. INTERSECTION. WORKS. THE. SAME. WAY.
Whereas in Texas, I'm double checking every light to make sure I'm not in the wrong before I make my next move.
I understand, TX government is all about Republicans intentionally making it difficult/breaking things to create their evidence that "government doesn't work," but this is legit, peoples lives at hand. Is there anything we can do to force our government to at least get it right on traffic signaling?!
And I'll add here that, while I don't excuse it, I can draw the dots between the inconsistent left turn policy and how some of y'all absolutely refuse to use the left turn lane (where there is no traffic signal) and will instead, turn left from a traffic lane (even though those bright yellow lines are RIGHT THERE). The number of times someone has nearly caused a wreck on Alabama because they, I guess, "don't recognize" the two yellow lines making the turn lane, is insane. I see it at least once a week. But with no flat rule on how left turns work, I guess I can see why they'd think of it as optional.
ETA:
And why do y'all SPEED through parking structures and parking lots then get on the road and go 2mph?
Final ETA
I've got the clarity now, that I think I needed.
- A solid green, and a flashing yellow, technically mean the same thing: unprotected left
My point is very straight forward: why not use one, instead of both?
- Michigan could use both protected and unprotected greens for lefts but we don't. We ONLY use protected greens. Green always means go. Yellow always means caution. Probably for exactly the reason I just called out above: you don't need a solid green AND a flashing yellow to communicate the same signal, just use one for absolute clarity.
So if you're looking up something akin to "does Michigan follow the same road rules as every other state?" I can see why some of you think you know what you're talking about. But having driven on Michigan roads from the age of 16 to about 38, and driven all throughout Canada (been to Toronto several times on my motorcycle and in my car), the Midwest, and Northeast, *if* we do unprotected greens in those parts of the US or Canada, they're very few and far between. Just like y'all have traffic signals on freeway entrances (ahem, some freeway entrances because clearly, being inconsistent is the way it's done here), that's another thing WE. DO. NOT. DO. You gun it and get in where you fit in. So even that is foreign to me. Just because it's on the books somewhere does not mean it's in practice in a given state.
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u/BoutThatLife 19h ago edited 19h ago
Well Michigan must follow a different light/traffic pattern than the entirety of the US because a left turn on solid green has never meant that you have a protected left anywhere in the 1,000s of miles Iāve driven anywhere in the US.
The left turn yield on flashing yellow on Kirby and Alabama (if youāre driving on Alabama) is likely a more timing based signal that is designed to only trigger during low traffic periods when that makes sense to have on and not back up traffic for no reason, otherwise itās only ever a protected left.
Iām sorry but youāre wrong.
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u/ZealousidealShift884 19h ago
W Holcombe and Main St
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u/BoutThatLife 19h ago
Agreed that weird, but perhaps thereās why thereās a giant ass sign beneath the light that says āPROTECTED LEFT ON GREENā.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 18h ago
You're clearly missing my point that GREEN should have a singular meaning. This green being protected and that green not being protected is exactly why you have the signs in the first place.
I will be the first to acknowledge that we, the United States, operate under a collective set of traffic rules. That said, how each state chooses to make use of those rules is probably where the difference comes in.
In Michigan, if you're left turn light is green, it's protected, flat out. There's no exception to that rule. There's no "this green is protected but that one isn't." Green is green. Period. The unprotected green is something the Michigan Department of Transportation clearly chooses not to employ.
And they're all the wiser for it.
The idea that "yes you have a GREEN LIGHT but you don't have the right of way" is literally the opposite of every other circumstance in which you'll ever encounter a green light (in these United States).
Now, you can argue for it all day and that it's what you're used to and that's fine. But we're going to acknowledge the fact that we're talking about a green light having two different meanings (a protected green v. an unprotected green) is what you're arguing for.
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u/ZealousidealShift884 18h ago
No one said there wasnāt a sign lol, but for someone who is not from Houston, they might be hesitant to make that turn through a big intersection at first. Why not just have a protected green arrow like other places? Key word INCONSISTENCY.
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u/Mysterious_Might008 19h ago
There is even a sign posted at Holcombe and Main that says: "Protected Left on Green".
Very clear instruction. A green arrow (left or right) also tells the driver that you don't have to yield to oncoming traffic since the green arrow is telling you that oncoming traffic has a red light.
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u/ZealousidealShift884 18h ago
I am countering your point when you said no where has protected left on green and telling OP they are wrong. You are wrong there are instances when you can do that and that was a perfect example.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
I've driven all over this country and Texas is the standout.
And if y'all are relying on ChatGPT to tell you how traffic works in Michigan, lol, bless your heart.
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u/BoutThatLife 19h ago
I seriously doubt that. Is that why this solid green protected left concept is called āthe Michigan leftā?
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
LMAO, no. That's not a Michigan left.
A Michigan left is where you turn right, to turn left.
And apparently, it's not really used outside of Michigan, hence the name. And it's invention has nothing to do with traffic safety, and everything to do with high volume traffic throughput.
Again, ChatGPT will be the death of y'all.
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u/BoutThatLife 19h ago
Iām not using ChatGPT, I was referencing another reddit thread that I misunderstood. Fair enough.
That said, Iāve never never crossed paths with what youāre describing.
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u/Starr1005 19h ago
I think you are stretching it a bit trying to blame Republicans. I too small a Michigander, and I get that driving here is crazy... but I dtive 100 miles a day for work, and my last complaint is being able to understand lights. I looked up Kirby and Westheimer. From Kirby, turning to Westheimer, there is s green arrow. From Westheimer to Kirby, THERE IS A SIGN THAT SAYS - LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN.
The Alabama one has a similar sign stating YIELD on blinking yellow.
If people can't read and pay attention, they shouldn't be driving.
Again, coming from a non republican Michigander. Stop making everything political.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 18h ago edited 18h ago
Was my complaint the signs or the the fact that from one light to the next (literally and figuratively), the left turn rules are different?
My intent was not to make anything political. I meant that (1) mostly in jest but (2) because it's the answer I got on a separate question months ago on why where to go to get your driver's license is not only totally separate but physically distant from where to go to get you license plate, coming from Michigan, you would know that years ago we choose a Shared Services model, putting everything into the Secretary of State to make things easier for citizens. I just asked why is it this way and practically EVERY response was people complaining about how TX government is intentionally bureaucratic. Someone even commented on how the HVAC licensing is somehow under the Railroad Commission.
In fact, here's that comment:
And here's another:
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u/LeisurelyHyacinth246 19h ago
To make things more complicated, for years W. Alabama had the middle lane as a reversible lane depending on the time of day and some people still arenāt used to the fact that itās changed now. Youāll see people still being confused over all that.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
Yeah that's wild. I didn't know that's what was going on when I'd see people driving like that.
Michigan has express lanes but ours are "permanent." They don't change direction based on time of day, and they're usually at least 2 lanes wide. So imagine my surprise to see 1 lane express lanes that ALSO change direction based on time of day.
To have reversible lanes on a SURFACE ROAD is peak insanity.
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u/Brave_Meet8430 18h ago
Bro itās not that hard in TX! For left turns in Houston are these are the patterns:
š¢ā¬ ļø (Green Arrow) = take your left turn! No yield!!
Flashing š”ā¬ ļø (flashing yellow arrow)= Yield to oncoming traffic before turning left
š“ā¬ ļø (left Red Arrow) = do not turn left (few places)
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 18h ago
Apparently (based on other commenters here) you're missing solid green with no arrow.
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u/quikmantx 17h ago
First of all, we do not all speed through parking structures and parking lots. Nor do we all go on the road at 2 MPH. Driver's Ed is poor in Texas, but that doesn't mean every driver or even most drivers are bad drivers.
Second, we don't need to be told to use Google Maps to verify your statements. We could use Apple Maps, Bing Maps, MapQuest, OpenStreetMap or whatever if we wanted to. If we had any reason to doubt your claims, we can fact-check on whatever platform we wish or take evidence from real life. Thanks, but no thanks.
You could just simply mention you wish Texas had uniformity in that green light signals are always protected with the examples you provided. Instead you end if off by insulting a bunch of us.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 17h ago
For a second I thought this was satire but oh no, like, you're serious?!
If you're insulted, at the running lights/driving slow/parking call outs ... š¬
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u/quikmantx 17h ago
I'm not insulted that bad drivers exist in Houston. But when you say "y'all", which means "you all", you are implying that we are all bad.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 15h ago
Are we really characterizing a generalization which may or may not apply to any given reader as (1) absolute and (2) not in jest?
Nothing about my post, at least on me rereading sounds like I'm attacking anyone on an individual level.
But I guess, as they say, a hit dog will holler.
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u/saxmanB737 19h ago
Texas is slowly converting all traffic lights to flashing yellow for left turns. Solid green is more dangerous as it gives the driver a false sense of security when making the turn. Yellow causes them to use more caution. But it takes years to transition all the lights. They do it slowly when the time comes for them to be replaced.
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u/thread_creeper_123 16h ago
A solid green dot is never protected in any of the 50 states unless there is a sign saying it is. Googling this to make sure.. and yup. NEVER. Google: is a solid green light (dot) protected left without a sign in any state
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u/ThurmanMermannnn 19h ago
No matter what color light you have and even if youāre not turning, just yield to oncoming traffic. Too many people try to make it through an āorangeā light and end up smashing into a car that had the right of way with a fully green light.
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u/Educational_Horse469 17h ago
Michigan has green circle yields and arrows too. Are you from a tiny town?
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u/Alexreads0627 17h ago
If you are in the far right hand lane at an intersection, you are well within your rights to take a left.
(joking)
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u/woodwork16 19h ago
This is Texas, we do nothing Left. Everything has to go right, far far far right.
If you want to turn left, you have to make 3 rights. Itās the law. The left turn lanes are there to confuse the left.
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19h ago
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
So you're saying if there's an arrow sign inside the light, no yield?
@ u/affectionateanarchy8 inviting you up here to this chat.
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u/_Julanna 19h ago
Yes, an arrow means a protected left. And I donāt know what you are talking about t about in Michigan, because they follow the same rules as everyone else according g to their legislature. A solid green is an unprotected left where you yield to oncoming traffic.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
idk if you got that from ChatGPT or not but that's incorrect. I grew up in, learned to drive, and lived in Michigan for nearly 40 years. I wouldn't tell you what I don't know.
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u/BoutThatLife 19h ago
If itās a green arrow, yes.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 19h ago
Replying to u/tyler21307 and u/AboutThatLife
Ok, but hear me out.
I'm in the turn lane. The traffic signal is strictly for the turn lane. I don't need an arrow to contribute to the idea that I'm turning. That's what the lane is for.
So it seems like an unnecessary, extra complication to have to think of color + shape or color + no shape.
I'M IN THE LEFT TURN LANE. lol, the shape shouldn't matter, just the signal itself.
From an engineering standing, the best part is no part. Which suggests this is poorly engineered by includingsomething other that the color of the traffic signal.
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u/affectionateanarchy8 18h ago
Green arrow means right of way left. Oncoming traffic will have a red.
Flashing yellow arrow means yield but go if it's safe.
Youll mostly see these are busy intersections with dedicated left turning lanes. In two lane streets you can yield to go on green. Usually anytime you see a full circle green the opposite lane will have one too.
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u/revveduplikeaduece86 18h ago
Right. And my only contention is that green should have ONE meaning. As should yellow. As should red. There's no "green means this in this case, but that, in another case." That, IMHO, is an accident waiting to happen. And while I've, myself, never been in any traffic accidents, while I'm sitting at this light, I see near misses all the time, ostensibly, because people are confused/trying to process what green means, "this time."
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19h ago
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u/ZealousidealShift884 19h ago
By W Holcombe and Main St, the solid green light is also a protected left turn. Itās pretty confusing at first until you get used to it. I love that Texas has turning lane arrows, but i agree with OP about inconsistencies.
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u/Maitreya72 18h ago
A lot of small town folk arenāt the best drivers and have a hard time when they come to the big city. Youāll get the hang of it eventually!