r/movies • u/Bellikron • Aug 17 '26
Spoilers Has any sequel successfully pulled off a hero's heel turn into villainy? Spoiler
Plenty of standalone movies have a character fall from grace, or be revealed as a villain all along, but this rarely happens with an established character in a sequel. On paper it's a solid twist because you've already grown to trust that character in previous films, but it's really hard to pull off without feeling like a betrayal of a character arc. The Mission Impossible series has one that was received very poorly, and the only reason I hear about Pacific Rim Uprising these days is people talking about how unearned the heel turn from one of the characters felt.
I struggle to think of an example where it was done successfully in a movie. There's more examples in TV I think since there's a much longer time to build a change in a character over multiple seasons, so I'm not really considering those. Since it did start with a movie series, though, and there really isn't too much of an extended character arc given in the show, the example I can think of that kind of works is Sharon Carter in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It was still super underdeveloped and it doesn't seem like they're going to do anything with it, but I can at least track the betrayal logic since there was kind of a meta angle about how that character had been forgotten by the movies. But even that's rather clunky.
I'm also talking specifically about situations where it wasn't clearly telegraphed by the source material or the rest of the franchise. Anakin becoming Vader was already known to the audience, for instance. I'm on the fence about whether something like Dune counts, since it's in the source material and the first two films are kind of just one long movie. I'm particularly interested in situations where it clearly wasn't the plan in the first movie but was written into a sequel.
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u/nun_gut Aug 17 '26
Vanessa Kensington was a fembot all along! Don't know how I missed that one.
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u/Leygrock Aug 17 '26
Basil knew all along
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u/sweetplantveal Aug 18 '26
Basil Exposition needs to take nominative determinism more seriously!
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u/MoobyTheGoldenSock Aug 17 '26
You joke but this is the most accurate response to the OP in the entire thread.
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u/Public_Fucking_Media Aug 18 '26
One of the funniest ways to write off an actor of all time
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u/immaownyou Aug 18 '26
Just listened to a podcast from someone that chatted with the writers and iirc it was because they (wrongly) wanted Austin to have the Bond trope of a different girl each movie
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u/JudgeFatty Aug 17 '26
Death Wish 2. Charles Bronson loses his last loved one and let's the darkness completely consume him. In the end he loses his last chance of a new beginning and becomes a full time murderous psychopath vigilante as the credits roll and Jimmy Page plays us out.
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u/StarWarsMonopoly Aug 17 '26
And then by Death Wish 3 he's literally committing genocide against a 200 man street gang in an open street war
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u/Ranier_Wolfnight Aug 18 '26
Oh shit, you talking about that 200 man kumite tournament he waged against that street gang with an RPG!? Dude, I watched that with a bunch of friends and I cried myself to sleep with how hard I laughed at that movie!
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u/riedmae Aug 18 '26
"I dont know what that means....to play us out! What's does....FUCK IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!
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u/HiroProtagonist1984 Aug 18 '26
What does that mean? “To play us out”? Theres no words on it.
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u/treathugger Aug 17 '26
Koba in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes?
Was on Caeser's side in Rise but is the main villain in the sequel
Though he was always kind of bad lol
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u/BladeOfWoah Aug 17 '26
Yeah Koba was never portrayed favourably. His biggest moment in the first movie was an "oh shit" moment where you knew he was going to enjoy getting even with the human that had him experimented on.
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u/Ateballoffire Aug 17 '26
I think even when Dawn started though you could make the argument he had no ill will with ceaser and was fine following him, even happy to do so
Koba did that for a decade. It wasn’t until the humans came back and his vengeance resurfaced that he became a villain. And even when it did, he still wanted to follow ceasar
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u/Pataconeitor Aug 18 '26
I see nothing wrong with somebody getting even with the person forcing painful and unnecessary surgery on them for years.
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings Aug 18 '26
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes is so ridiculously good. Easily the best in the franchise
Mind you, I’m a huge sucker for a “two good people trying to do the right thing who end up on opposing sides” story
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u/Algaean Aug 18 '26
I wonder if it was coincidence or intentional, calling him Koba. An early Russian revolutionary named Josif Dszugashvili used it as a nickname. Although he later moved on to using Stalin.
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u/piray003 Aug 17 '26
Bucky Barnes to the Winter Soldier? Obviously an established arc in the comics but someone walking in having only seen the First Avenger would have prob been surprised.
John Connor in Terminator Genisys, wouldn’t say they pulled it off though that movie sucks lol.
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u/ERedfieldh Aug 17 '26
John Connor might have worked if they hadn't shown it in the trailers. But it still felt icky. Four films where John is the most important thing ever and then they decide to do that?
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u/hyzmarca Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
John Possessed by Skynet doesn't work as well because it isn't really him. It's skynet wearing him as a meat suit.
It would be much better if it was human John Connor after having lost everyone he ever loved to obtain humanity's victory, enslaving Skynet and using it to build a perfect future for himself, where everyone he cares about lives, but at the cost of the rest of humanity. That would have had some pathos.
And also if he was played by Christian Bale again.
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u/lrdwlmr Aug 18 '26
Pretty much the only thing I liked about that movie was that it let me experience what it’s like to see a movie when I’m the only person in the theater (it was a weekday afternoon and I was on vacation with a couple hours to kill).
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u/FanboyFilms Aug 17 '26
Was there any reason for his heel turn or was he just infected by Skynet nanites?
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u/Dagordae Aug 17 '26
Infected. He didn’t really turn evil, he basically got eaten by Skynet and replaced with a Terminator nanobot copy.
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u/Digitalstatic Aug 17 '26
I understood it as he was infected with the nanites and while he believed he was doing the right thing, he was actually being controlled by SkyNet. I actually liked the movie in an alternate universe concept. I treat any movie after T2 as part of a multiverse. Which allows me to enjoy them more.
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u/PunyParker826 Aug 18 '26
Honestly, when I watch it with others, most people get to that reveal in Winter Soldier and have to pause for a second. “Wait, gimme a minute… wasn’t that… he looks familiar… isn’t that that one guy from the other movie?… Buffy or something?”
Comic geeks had been aware of Bucky for decades by the time Brubaker brought him back; he was one of the Big Names that were “supposed” to stay dead: Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, Jason Todd, and Bucky. Unfortunately for non-comics nerds, Bucky just didn’t have enough screen time or character work in previous movies to have a big impact - he was just “Cap’s friend” - so the “reveal” loses some oomph.
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u/effa94 Aug 18 '26
yeah, first time i watched winter soldier i had totally forgotten who he was untill they showed us the flashbacks
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u/KeremyJyles Aug 18 '26
The movie stops dead to explain who Bucky was well before the reveal, they must not have great attention spans to begin with.
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u/frockinbrock Aug 18 '26
If they had not put that scene IN EVERY TRAILER, and wrote it slightly better, that could have been a fun twist. But they blew it
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u/President_of_Space Aug 17 '26
Amy Adams' character in Enchanted and Disenchanted. Thought it was quite well done.
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u/DirectConsequence12 Aug 17 '26
I didn’t see the sequel.
She’s the villain??
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u/Clawless Aug 17 '26
She became a stepmom. You know how step-parents are portrayed in fairytales…
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u/Ringosis Aug 18 '26
Yeah they had the absolutely brilliant idea that in the sequel she gets married to the guy, becomes the kids step mum and then is suddenly evil because she's a step mum in a fairytale.
Unfortunately this idea is great but its execution is awful.
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u/padawan_lockett Aug 17 '26
You're blowing my mind I barely knew Disenchanted exists and ZERO idea that it was connected to Enchanted hahaha. I guess the 15 years between didn't help but still.
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u/AnonymousFriend80 Aug 18 '26
Be careful, there's an animated series called Disenchanted by Matt Groening that completely unrelated to the Disney films.
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u/Ringosis Aug 18 '26
The sequel was rubbish and flopped. I'd assume that's why it went under your radar. Hardly anyone saw or talked about it.
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u/Stouts Aug 18 '26
Disenchanted was not particularly good or fun, but it really did play with some good and fun ideas.
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u/SonofBeckett Aug 17 '26
I'd say Michael Corleone is the villain of the Godfather II while still being the protagonist.
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u/pinetar Aug 17 '26
He is the main protagonist in the same manner as Macbeth. Clearly the main villain.
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u/Corgi_Koala Aug 18 '26
Villain protagonists are a pretty well established trope.
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u/Marcus64 Aug 18 '26
I mean, he makes that heel turn in the first movie. The second movie is just driving it home.
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u/Rarvyn Aug 18 '26
It was my first thought too, but the famous murder montage at the end of the first movie is probably the real turn.
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u/Marcus64 Aug 18 '26
The heel turn begins with "I'll kill them both." (Referring to McClusky and Sollozzo.) It's finalized with the assassinations, and sealed in stone by lying to Kay.
The greatness of the movie is in how slow and gradual this turn is, taking over two hours (and more than a decade) to transform Michael from a war hero who wants nothing to do with the family business, into a ruthless Don.
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u/SonofBeckett Aug 18 '26
I'd argue that even here, he's protecting his family (wife, brother, sister, mom, child, not The Family). He kills his sister's abusive husband and takes out anyone who can harm his family.
By the second movie, he has become an abusive husband and orders his own brother's death, putting The Family over his family.
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u/Aidenairel Aug 18 '26
I would argue everyone in GF2 is a villain, except for Kay and Mama Corleone.
They're all criminals after all.
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u/IMJacob1 Aug 18 '26
Most drug empire or crime boss shows and movies I’d say are like this- breaking bad for example also fits. In narcos it’s tough bc one could argue Pablo Escobar was a main character but was always a villain
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u/crookedparadigm Aug 18 '26
Protagonist doesn't mean "good guy", it just means main character.
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u/thegloriousporpoise Aug 17 '26
I guess James Franco in the Raimi Spider-man trilogy. And Franco in real life.
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u/wildfire393 Aug 17 '26
Harry isn't really a "hero" in the first few films though, he's just sorta there.
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u/thegloriousporpoise Aug 17 '26
Yeah that’s why I said I guess. Cause it was the closet I could think of. We also all knew his journey ended with him being Gobby jr.
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u/MoroseOverdose Aug 18 '26
RIP James Franco, we never got to see what kind of man he'd grow up to be
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u/PunyParker826 Aug 18 '26
That was intended all along, though. Harry became the goblin decades ago in the comics.
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u/thegloriousporpoise Aug 18 '26
Yes. I know. Doesn’t make it any less true. Just means we all knew it was coming
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u/mrbubbamac Aug 18 '26
I just watched Spider Man 3 and I couldn't believe how terrible it was
Harry getting amnesia was also really silly, that movie didn't have a single decent villain
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u/sharkattackmiami Aug 18 '26
This is just flat out wrong. Sandman was a great complex villain and Thomas Hayden Church did a great job. The movie was just an over bloated mess and wasted him
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u/biggles1994 Aug 18 '26
It had a troubled development and Rami didnt want to shoehorn venom in but the studio insisted and the whole project kinda capsized under the weight.
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u/NewOrleansBrees Aug 18 '26
We rewatched all 3 recently and as a kid I never understood but the drop in quality to the third one is hilarious. Like is no one questioning why this poor red head keeps getting kidnapped? Why do they always take her so high in the sky?
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u/Kundrew1 Aug 17 '26
OP: No TV shows
Reddit: Hey what about a bunch of TV shows.
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u/Daxx22 Aug 17 '26
Largely due to the fact its hard to pull off a good heel turn in a single movies runtime. Even most of the movie examples here are movie series vs oneshots.
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u/FemRoe4Lyfe Aug 18 '26
The most accurate answer to OP's question, given the conditions they gave, is NO.
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u/2002BlackBMW Aug 17 '26
Best way to get the correct answer on the internet is to post the wrong answer. That’s Murphy’s Law.
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u/DrFaustPhD Aug 18 '26
What, you expect people to read more than a dozen words before sharing their thoughts?
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u/Eldritch_Lemonade Aug 17 '26
Not really a character but District 13 in the Hunger Games universe is kind of like this, you realise they and the Capital are two cheeks of the same arse through Katniss's pov
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u/lookyloolookingatyou Aug 17 '26
You mean to tell me Alma Coin had another side to her??
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u/PiercedGeek Aug 17 '26
Thank you! When I first read it I told my daughter I wasn't expecting Coin to flip like that 😉
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u/Xecutioner Aug 17 '26
Being "two cheeks of the same arse" is a fantastic phrase.
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u/RiflemanLax Aug 17 '26
Yes. I am assimilating this wonderful phrase into my personal lexicon.
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u/Kgb725 Aug 18 '26
Isnt it just coin? Its been a while since ive read the books but in the movies they have people who are decent
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u/Eldritch_Lemonade Aug 18 '26
A bit but you could say the same about the Capital too, both were pretty much fuelled by vengeance and the end justifying the means for control
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u/EarzFish Aug 18 '26
I read District 13, but my head went District 9. I was trying to figure out how District 9 could possibly be in the Hunger Games universe.
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u/DJRock93 Aug 17 '26
Does Megatron in the latest Transformers animated count?
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u/darthzilla99 Aug 18 '26
I think that counts. Yeah we know Megatron is the franchise villain, but Transformers One is a standalone reboot movie.
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u/Kgb725 Aug 18 '26
I really liked that we got to witness him being done with everything instead of him just being evil all along
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u/gwxtreize Aug 18 '26
Tron? He's the hero program played by Bruce Boxleitner in the original but in Tron Legacy, he's now a lackey to CLU. You don't even know it's the same Tron program until 3/4 through.
Also, as much as I liked the de-aging they used on Jeff Bridges for CLU, they could have given one scene with the same treatment for Tron/Bruce. Although Bruce's cameo was still a treat before Sam goes into The Grid.
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u/JRPictures Aug 18 '26
Also, as much as I liked the de-aging they used on Jeff Bridges for CLU, they could have given one scene with the same treatment for Tron/Bruce.
They did do that a little bit with the flashback to CLU's betrayal since Tron was helmetless there but having that filter over the scene was basically them covering their tracks cause they knew the de-aging effects didn't look good enough (and CLU having the uncanny valley effect at least worked on some level)
Although Bruce's cameo was still a treat before Sam goes into The Grid.
Yeah, a shame the travesty that is Tron Ares didn't even have the decency to invite Bruce back or even acknowledge Tron/Alan as characters.
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u/Aw3som3-O_5000 Aug 18 '26
Yeah, i figured Sam and Quorra would've been in it (really i just wanted to see Olivia Wilde).
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u/ConfusedPanda76 Aug 17 '26
Nate the Great in Ted Lasso. I don't think I've ever been angrier at a fictional person in my life
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u/mrmeyagi Aug 17 '26
Since you bring up Nate, did you personally forgive him or were you still mad at him towards the end?
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u/AtomStorageBox Aug 17 '26
I was still annoyed with him. I get why Ted forgave him; that’s just who Ted is. But man, I hated how Nate turned his back on Richmond.
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u/Amon7777 Aug 17 '26
I didn’t until Beard came to Nate with tears telling his story of what an awful, horrible, person he was to Ted. And how he has tried to be better every day since. That choice was now before Nate and he chose to walk it. So as the audience I can only go by what was shown, that Nate, broken like he was, would walk Beard’s path to redemption.
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u/Pariell Aug 17 '26
" I hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments, but rather by the strength we show when and if we're ever given a second chance ."
I had to admit Ted had a point there. I've had my own low points. Ive done better since then, but if I want to be judged by everything I've done and not just my worst choices, I have to extend the same to Nate
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u/WinterAd825 Aug 17 '26
I don’t forgive him. I respect Ted’s decision but I don’t have the same one.
I feel he can still earn forgiveness but it’s not been nearly enough yet
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u/Ampersandbox Aug 18 '26
Nate was broken by self-hatred from his father, so a positive father figure like Ted was not going to solve that.
Nate made his own realizations about what was important to him, then resolved things with his father, then found the humility to return and ask to be a part of what he loved. He even corrects "Assistant Kit Man" to "Assistant to the Kit Man." He is humble and grateful. Even when Ted demurs an actual apology, Nate insists he has to do it for himself. I don't see how anyone can't forgive Nate after that journey. I found it profoundly moving.
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u/NewOrleansBrees Aug 18 '26
Ted’s marriage counselor banging his wife and it barely being acknowledged how fucked that is is up there for me
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u/TheBrightLord Aug 17 '26
I have a burning hatred for bullies and he was the exact sort of asshole that I have personal experience with. Slimy suck up to those with power and a total monster to those without.
I also understand why he’s like that and they did a good enough redemption arc that I was sort of like ‘oh alright then’ but man. Fuck that guy.
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u/Pariell Aug 17 '26
What I thought was cool was he did the whole cycle. He started as the bullying victim, mostly from Jamie, Issac, and Collin. We saw those 3 be forgiven and redeemed, but it was so much harder with Nate for some reason.
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u/dinan101 Aug 17 '26
What’s really interesting is that he’s such a super nice guy in real life. Watch his season on Taskmaster. He’s great
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u/JeffRyan1 Aug 17 '26
Miss Congeniality 2.
Gracie the lovably capable dork from the first movie had been glitterbombed into becoming a monster, and now is ruining Regina King's life, pulling her down for not being fashionable in the exact same way others disparaged Gracie the first time around.
The movie only makes sense if you think of it as a hero-turned-villain's redemptive arc.
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u/Obvious_Barracuda960 Aug 17 '26
I don't know if M:I really counts. The Jim Phelps of the TV show, and the Phelps of the first film are basically completely different characters.
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u/lanceturley Aug 17 '26
And Peter Graves refused to be involved with the movie because of that.
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u/TaylorDangerTorres Aug 18 '26
And then they
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u/Kaiserhawk Aug 17 '26
Also not many people are even aware of that
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u/gambalore Aug 18 '26
I have a friend who refuses to watch the MI movies because he’s still mad about the Phelps turn in MI1 as a fan of the TV series. Most everyone tells him they have no idea what he’s talking about.
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u/wavesahoy Aug 17 '26
That pissed me off so much I didn’t watch any of the sequels for many many years.
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u/YodaFan465 Aug 17 '26
That’s a shame, because 4-5-6 are a generational run of action films once they figured out the formula and RAN with it.
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u/VinnieHa Aug 17 '26
The closet I can think of is in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Saavik who had been in Star Trek 2,3,4 was supposed to be revealed to be a traitor to the federation, but this was scrapped and she was replaced with an identical character with a different name.
Scream probably has a few but I can’t say for sure, but I would be very surprised if some former victim didn’t end up a killer in one of the seven or eight sequels it’s had.
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u/Bellikron Aug 18 '26
It still hasn't happened yet, which I think is crazy. You would think this franchise above all others would be willing to try to take this on.
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u/VinnieHa Aug 18 '26
That is very surprising, but surely some Horror movie has had it.
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u/Aureus23 Aug 17 '26
Paul from Dune.
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u/_The_Bearded_Wonder_ Aug 18 '26
I don't doubt the third film will stick the landing and it will be quite something to see people realize the person they have been rooting for was the villain.
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u/ThadVonP Aug 18 '26
So funny to me because by the end of the second film, I couldn't see why anyone would be cheering him on.
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u/Toloc42 Aug 18 '26
Apparently Frank Herbert was so distraught at people painting first book Paul as a pure hero, that he put a scene in the second book spelling it out.
Emperor Paul, in a rare quiet moment, stands on a balcony at night and reminisces about the crusades across the galaxy, raging in his name: "Wow. I'm worse than that one ancient guy from old Earth history... what's his name again? Oh yeah, Hitler. I'm worse than Hitler." (Very roughly paraphrased and probably inaccurate in details, it's been a while.)
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u/SimoneNonvelodico Aug 18 '26
I mean he's very self-aware about it.
The thing with Paul is that he's clearly more of a "forced to be a villain to make things happen that need to happen" kind of character, almost completely pre-determined by external forces, and extremely outspoken about it. In fact he does almost nothing but complain about it. He's like Napoleon, if Napoleon went into it knowing full well what would happen and did it all purely for the sake of fulfilling his role in History. Waged a lot of wars, killed a lot of people, but ultimately that watershed moment of fervour spilling out of a single place finally broke a stagnant political order that needed to be swept away.
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u/TubasAreFun Aug 18 '26
His terrible purpose. Books did it better but the 3rd movie (corresponding to the 2nd book) should help cement how villainous Paul can be
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u/Dismal_Engineering71 Aug 18 '26
Will they bring up the hitler conversation? Probably not.
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u/HellyOHaint Aug 18 '26
I thought the end of the second film did that very well.
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u/OldMan0101 Aug 18 '26
Yeah - especially after the 3rd movie - I think this will be the best answer yo OP's original question.
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u/Babaganoosh__ Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Wanda Maximoff in the MCU. All the movies she's in all leading to Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.
Honorable mention... Anakin Skywalker
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u/bflaminio Aug 17 '26
Wanda went from villain to hero and then back to villain again.
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u/tsunami141 Aug 17 '26
she also has a quick trip to hero and back when Agatha starts killing dogs and stuff.
Snip, snap, snip, snap.
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u/mophisus Aug 17 '26
I don't think Anakin counts..
He's introduced as a Villain, his backstory comes later than portrays him as a hero.
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u/ZackyZack Aug 17 '26
Not only that, but "pulls off" is a stretch if you only follow the movies. The theatrical cut is very shallow in exploring how broken his psyche was after years of war and weeks of lack of sleep
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u/readwrite_blue Aug 17 '26
If all you look at is the films, Anakin goes from kid in distress in the first film to angry murderer in the second who admits to slaughtering innocent children.
He never has a time where he's the hero.
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u/Vyzantinist Aug 18 '26
I agree, and I say that as a Star Wars fan. The prequels alone don't really do a good job of portraying Anakin as especially heroic or noble. He goes from innocent child, to whiny teen, to whiny man-child and then Sith Lord. The "good in him" Padme and Luke mention is like bare minimum Jedi shit, and he hardly deserves praise for that since it's basically in his job description. It's like praising your waiter for bringing your food. The "good in him" is just the capacity to be...not good but not-evil.
I really don't think Lucas should have shelved off his heroism in the Clone Wars to an animated series that casuals and plenty of adult fans wouldn't bother watching. Episode I should have ended with the start of the Clone Wars, Episode II shows Anakin grown from an idealistic and innocent child into a young man struggling with the horrors of war, and Episode III should have been Anakin holding on to his last shreds of goodness before Palpatine pushes him over the edge. He just doesn't have that "good guy quality" Luke does.
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u/dj_soo Aug 17 '26
I’d say that heel turn sucked cause it was entirely offscreen and felt unearned after Wandavision
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u/Dagordae Aug 17 '26
I have to seriously disagree with that. The show did it well enough but Multiverse of Madness was so disconnected from the setup that it just sort of skipped over the ending and made her an obsessed cackling madwoman.
As to Anakin: Eh, he was always a shit person. Never really all that heroic, they went to the child murder WAY too quickly,
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u/Regendorf Aug 18 '26
The lesson she learned was that she needed better magic, hence why the last scene is her using the darkhold.
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u/burn95 Aug 18 '26
I wanted Rey to turn heel in the sequels and Ren to redeem himself. I thought they were going that way but the second half of Last Jedi didn't do it.
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u/ktn24 Aug 18 '26
I thought exactly the same thing, and that would have made a potentially great trilogy.
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u/jim182182 Aug 17 '26
Not a sequel but Harvey Dent.
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u/imakefilms Aug 18 '26
It is a sequel. But he's only in that one
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u/faraith Aug 18 '26
r/TechnicallyCorrect if you only go by the title and not the spirit of the question.
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u/samarpanbose Aug 17 '26
Hervey Dent, can we trust him?
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u/lolman5 Aug 18 '26
well he seems to be the best that... we....... got. Are you doing that thing where you disappear?
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u/NateHohl Aug 18 '26
It's a unique narrative element that comic book-to-movie adaptations can play with since existing fans of the comic characters *know* where those characters are going to end up (i.e. becoming villains in Dent's case). It's definitely more about the journey than the destination in those cases (though the destination can also be pretty darn compelling as well, again as with Dent in TDK).
Over in the video game realm, Insomniac pulled off a similar feat with their first Spider-Man game and the character
Otto Octavius. Existing fans know that he's going to eventually become the villain Doc Ock, but his status at the start of the game as a friend and mentor to Peter makes his eventual fall from grace all the more tragic. 0
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u/JaxxisR Aug 17 '26
He was a good guy in Batman and Batman Returns though, before being a villain in Batman Forever (which is debatable in terms of being a sequel, having a different cast/director/producer)
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u/Dakoolestkat123 Aug 18 '26
Jeremy Renner goes from beloved small batch hot sauce making actor in knives out 2 to paranoid maniac in knives out 3. I didn’t know how they were gonna pull it off, but the transition was seamless
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u/EastCoastLoman Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Sam Rockwell in Charlie’s Angels maybe?
ETA: (Sorry, I just realized the post title says “any sequel”. I’m an idiot.)
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u/Scheifs55 Aug 17 '26
Plus we get to see him dance! That reveal with the soundtrack is iconic. I also have a theory that Sam Rockwell has a rider in all his contracts that his character has to dance lol
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u/EastCoastLoman Aug 17 '26
We do and I love that scene! Now I have to go back and see if he has a dance scene in 3 Billboards. 😂
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u/NateHohl Aug 18 '26
When I was a kid, my aunt was weirdly obsessed with the Charlie's Angels movie and I remember she used Rockwell's heel turn as an example of the trend where a character will suddenly start smoking as a way to visually signify their transition from good guy to bad guy. Rockwell in CA was also a particularly clever turn since they were setting him up as a love interest for Drew Barrymore's character.
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u/Misterfahrenheit120 Aug 17 '26
ITT: People talking about things that aren’t movies or aren’t sequels
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u/Jaideco Aug 17 '26
The best examples that I can think of are Jean Grey in last stand and Bucky Barnes in Winter Soldier. Saruman, Magneto and Anakin Skywalker only work if you take the films in the order they were set rather than release order.
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u/JackZoff Aug 18 '26
Chief Inspector Dreyfus (Herbert Lom) in The Pink Panther Strikes Again (1976)
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u/Dirks_Knee Aug 17 '26
Not a movie but the Marvel TV show Legion did it fairly well. Also in TV, though he's kinda the hero and the villain and...it's complicated...but Mr Robot.
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u/cbekel3618 Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
"Hero" is a stretch but Paul in Dune comes to mind, going from the traditional chosen-one figure in the first film, to the leader of a holy war on the path to slaughtering countless in the sequels.
Could also say Koba from the Planet of the Apes films. Going from a victim and ally of Caesar in the first film, to a vengeful monster willing to betray his friends to start a war.
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u/IdRatherBeBitching Aug 17 '26
Yeah, but you can't quite call him the villain here either. He's doing it because it was that or let humanity enter a thousand year dark age that would have resulted in death and slaughter on a scale that dwarves his jihad.
Point is, he's still very much the "hero" of the book...in that the book is trying to specifically point out that "heroes" are grey, human, flawed creatures. So I don't think it fits the scenario OP is lookign for
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u/ihopnavajo Aug 17 '26
On that note, if there's one area where Zack Snyder's watchmen messed up, it was in making ozymandius NOT likeable in the first place.