r/developersIndia • u/captainrushingin Software Engineer • 1d ago
General Microsoft Voluntary exit announcement has made me super scared.
I’m not a microsoft employee, but i’m a Software Engineer with 9 YOE.
Yesterday’s voluntary exit option announcement by microsoft has made me restless.
What the fruck are we heading towards man ?
Layoffs have been going on since 2022 now, infinite money is being dumped into AI which hasn’t proved to be profitable yet and still everyone is trying to achieve non existent AI efficiency.
I really could not sleep last night.
I kept thinking about what would I do if my company announces something like this or if i’m just simply laid off. I have no answer to be honest because I do not know anything else except software engineering.
Everyone keeps talking about upskilling but the job market itself is terrible.
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u/tall-koalla 1d ago
I am one of those who got the option. I am evaluating, but I don't think I will take it.
My opinion on upskilling: What do you upskill on? Is there anything that AI can't do?
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u/captainrushingin 1d ago
what’s the word over there within microsoft?
must be a lot of information floating around over there25
u/tall-koalla 1d ago
Everyone below VP has got it. The atmosphere is gloomy, I think. Everyone is processing the news. This isn't layoffs, but it's still sad news.
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u/quit_fapping 1d ago
Nope, my org didn’t and our org is one of the biggest. Btw it’s just an option don’t worry about it. They just hope that around 10k folks take it to avoid layoffs.
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u/alt_suprisedpikachu 22h ago
yeah all orgs except security, MCAPS, marketing as those orgs already had heavy layoffs recently
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u/Amazing-Movie8382 23h ago
Upskills? Nah man, they are gonna pretend that why’d they choose you over a senior with a random LLM subscription.
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u/NaRaGaMo 23h ago
since you received it, doesn't it mean you will be fired by Dec or Jan anyway? and you have a faangm tag, HR's will mostly be lenient on you
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u/anon_runner 1d ago
If you dont take it, then are you not exposing yourself to a RIF with no severance package? Or at least one that is not as lucrative as it is now. I think you should seriously consider this possibility before deciding.
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u/DM_your_problem 19h ago
honestly, if I had not been laid off few months ago, i would have taken it. the decisive factor here is "do you think your manager will defend you more than your other team mates in case of layoffs?"
if you have doubts, know that this is the best offer msft is going to give you in next 12 months
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u/ShoePillow 21h ago
If you don't mind sharing, what is the payout to incite people to leave voluntarily?
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u/tall-koalla 7h ago
One month pay for each year of service+three months notice buyout+career support+1y health insurance+most likely leave encashment+gratuity.
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u/Own_Estimate_6507 4h ago
Damn that's generous for long tenured people. If someone had 10 years service, they get a 13 month severance including notice buyout?? That's a whole years salary.
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u/EntireBakeryStreet 39m ago
I am in the same boat, man. To be honest, I am not able to work since yesterday :/ Not because I am depressed or so but maybe everything feels so worthless and crazy
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u/kandippa_throwaway 1d ago edited 1d ago
I got laid off a few months back and now joined a startup which is extremely AI forward so I’ve seen the reality and made some deep thinking . Market is not like before, Companies are very selective with their hiring and there is no more room for errors in these interviews. The same bosses that used to tell AI is to help people and make them more productive are now changing the narrative to headcount reduction, saving costs, operational efficiencies and yada yada. AI never came for our good it just came to make the rich richer . We will be thrown off anytime and I’m mentally prepared for it.
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u/classicdata99 21h ago
extremely AI forward Can you elaborate pls?
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u/kandippa_throwaway 19h ago
PRDs, HLD, LLD, Development, deployment, testing almost all of it is done by Claude my job is to just to review it and mostly it gets everything right.
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u/saru_26 3h ago
Can you share how the current interviewers are when HLD LLD etc are all done by AI
Has the interview process changed2
u/kandippa_throwaway 3h ago
Interviews happen as if it’s a sandbox environment where no AI exists, that’s the irony.
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u/Global-Equipment-856 1d ago
Why is AI bad? It's the people who are controlling it are.
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u/wooneigh 23h ago
Coz AI removes the need for a human developer duhhhhh , works 24x7 no sick leave , insurance , mood swings
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u/CryptographerNew9729 18h ago
It is just the scapegoat. Of course it was a piece in the domino. They had already decided it. Now AI has become the thing that attracts the attention of the world. And they can shift the blame to it. But because it is an object it can't be held accountable. And ofcourse they are not accounted for. Because it is AI's fault haha.
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u/LazyBoy1805 7h ago
Artifical intelligence comes with artificial emotion and artificial mood swings…we will see that sooner than later at current pace of frontier model evolution
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u/butterscotchhh_qt 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am starting to think is this the dusk of Software industry. Because companies with small teams have already proven to excel. Now with Agents, big companies have no reason to hire more. Instead they can keep few talented peeps for human verification-validation and for speed, agents.
Is it really finished for us?
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u/emperortom192 1d ago
You mean dusk of software engineering?
Dawn would mean beginning/rise of software engineering33
u/butterscotchhh_qt 1d ago
Yeah my bad..
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u/Arnab_ 20h ago
Keep your chin up, it could very well be the dawn of something bigger.
Pre AI experienced engineers aren't going anywhere anytime soon either. I know associates with almost 2 years of experience struggling to use a debugger and step through code. They'll just be giving a blank stare if they had to manually debug anything even remotely complicated.
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u/CryptographerNew9729 18h ago
Nope . I think it is the new beginning of AI software industry. Or maybe software industry - huge mass of software developers/engineers.
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u/Ill_Following4661 18h ago
I have 28 years of experience. I have seen the dotcom bust, 2008 crisis, Covid and now this. I feel the following:
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Before 2024 interest rates in USA were close to 0. So people were happy to invest a ton of money. This helped software industry as well.
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During COVID companies hired a lot of people assuming everything will be digitised. That is not true. Turns out people do like to go outside and touch and feel stuff before buying.
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With AI, companies have paused lot of investment. While every CEO says they are investing in AI, most of them are waiting for the AI story to play out. There are rumours that AI companies will run out of money. Also know ones know how to automate organisation process using AI with all the legacy apps and ERP. This will take 3-5 years
All these reasons are contributing to the layoffs. This too shall pass but the time of huge salaries and bonuses are past us.
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u/These-Bus2332 11h ago
But letting go 60k employees is shocking . Does this mean how ai layoff looks like?
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u/Anxious-Fix6379 17h ago
Governments needs this powerful tools, these companies will get bailed out by government and keep giving hand outs as govt projects.
As i understand this bubble will not pop. When power is playing, money will step a side. Whether it China or USA
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u/ipoundsoft 17h ago
Exactly this is what i feel too.
I have been in this industry for more over a decade. I wont say this is a bubble, but yeah a drastic change. And this field is ever evolving, so upskilling, keep up with the trend is the way to go.
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u/Shibamukun 16h ago
I agree that covid salaries are past us but layoffs happening tells me high salaries are here to stay
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u/thenewjudge 5h ago
Nah man, AI is working towards be more efficient in less resources. Chinese AIs are getting better day by day in less resources
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u/Single-Processor4873 1d ago
My organisation is agressively spending to setup complete end to end agent factory with human only in loop for review activities and they are already said we are tracking your claude code token usage so basically we don't have a choice except to heavily use AI and they want quick results as well.
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u/awsmdude007 1d ago
About Upskilling, you just need enough skills to crack interviews and do the daily job.
I have close to 20yoe. Your fears are very valid, but why worry about something that's not in your control? So instead of worrying I would say try to find answers on what else can you do if the IT jobs don't exist a couple years later.
So think about what you can do aside from your job. If you start working towards something today, by the time these jobs go extinct, you will be ready with something that brings food to the table. Yes, that something new will not be easy, I know it's easier said than done. But there's no other option unless you have a farmland. And obviously it won't pay you this much. Secure the money for basics first and then we'll see what happens.
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u/Infinity_777 1d ago
White collar jobs will be difficult. If someone is already past prime, nobody would be willing to hire someone new in a field. And also indians have a culture of looking at degree.
So white collar jobs seem to be out. Blue collar jobs remain then
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u/Spirited_Volume8035 1d ago
Sir what a fresher must do then
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u/AmbitionNarrow4296 1d ago
Plz start enrolling for various government schemes. There are a lot which gives good money although less. Change lifestyle and live like a king without work on these schemes
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u/Individual-Oil3548 22h ago
please enlighten us with these imaginary govt schemes, which are available for general category
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u/live-ly 1d ago
Microsoft is anyday overcrowded even without AI.
Key contributing factors :
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Too many influencers just doing bare minimum and getting paid because interview skills are good (ofcourse there are good folks also but they take extra load bcs of these folks)
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Too many managers and everyone is trying to have their own impact rather than moving towards a common objective (ends up creating more conflicts for simple things)
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Slow deliveries not due to slow coding but due to slow decisions and rapid changes.
Many people are happy with this offer of Voluntary exit because they are here for 5-10y+ and it looks like attractive deal for them.
It is also good because the people who actually wants to move out or not interested can go, rather than company forcing folks who are willing to put their head down and work.
Intelligent move I guess!
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u/Famous-Football-4617 1d ago edited 6h ago
I mean every company has them 🤣😂
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u/NaRaGaMo 23h ago
you don't see " a day in life of software engineer at lala company" like you do for msft
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u/Emergency-Notice-731 20h ago
Also what i eat in a day as a software engineer working at Ms , i am like dude wtf, sona chandi thodi khayega
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u/Gloomy_Temporary2914 1d ago
I have told this n continue telling it . Our country is running on bhagvan ka barosa
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u/Square-Green-7515 20h ago
Why even bother commenting when all you have to say is 'Our country is running on bhagvan ka bharosa'. Whiner.
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u/OkCamera1470 18h ago
Usa is running on Indian Bharosa,if Dedollarise they will be no Bharosa for murica. Aakir Bharath Bhagwan ka desh hai
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u/Gloomy_Temporary2914 17h ago
I have seen this hard cope of dedollarisation while USA is going heights n our country is going down every year
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u/OkCamera1470 17h ago
Down wrt Artificial pumped Dollar and I have seen no one begging for food in lines even in covid season. Just measure India in rupees not Dollar ,even stock market goes to zero and It industry collapses.only 20% will be effected,rest of India goes on .just people move back to villages like in covid season.Commodity rates comes down and so on. Nothing like Europe burning for nothing
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u/Spirited_Volume8035 1d ago
Sir ji aapke aise haal h to fresher ka kya?
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u/Commercial-Test4559 1d ago
Freshers ke liye sirf oncampus jobs hai ab offcampus is almost impossible
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u/BheeshmArjuna 1d ago
💯 but also I'm sad for freshers because many colleges doesn't have proper placements
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u/Commercial-Test4559 1d ago
Aur jaha hoti bhi hai waha bhi km hongi ab kyoki overall hiring hi kam hogayi hai so affect to campus placements mein bhi dikhega hi and it has been since past 2 yrs
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u/Frequent_Eggplant_23 22h ago
At least the freshers are young enough to pivot. They have enough time, people in our country waste 4-5 years after govt jobs (which now that i look in hindsight, is right. Negligible work with a lifetime guaranteed salary) wish i had taken my dad’s advice, but no, i had “skills”.
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u/DebuggingDribbler 21h ago
I don't think that's necessarily true. If you have a good network and contacts, then it's definitely possible.
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u/Commercial-Test4559 21h ago
Bohot km chance hai literally har dusra Banda referral ke sath hi apply karta hai aur entry level openings hi ni khulti ab. Mereko apni org mein portal pe fresher openings hi ni dikhi itne mahino se
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u/Careful-Orange-7512 1d ago
I have a suspicion that this could be strategical exit companies are seeking for in the name of AI. Its the ppls money which is pumped and not flowing back to ppl via employment as there are layoffs, eventually the money is somehow squeezed out and funneled up top.
Have a strong feeling something is not right. I have never noticed such increased levels of opaque policies in companies and countries governance or policies. There is something cooking behind, never have evere been there a time when there was this level of tensions between countries and economic and supply chain disruption but still ppl spending is not affected meaningfully. Covid has changed the complete dynamics of how ppl perceive reality.
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u/Dakip2608 1d ago
small sized - high velocity companies/startups will be the future. I'd be happy with that at 22 but sad with it at 32 ig
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u/Jumpy_Savings1451 1d ago
I'm considering a startup at 35/36. What's wrong with it?
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u/mallumanoos 1d ago
Considering and working for 15-16 hours are two different things . Easy to do without a partner and kids I suppose .
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u/OkCamera1470 18h ago
Problem is,enjoying lavish life and settled family .going back to work hard and blue future.Startup is a risk venture ,hit or Phat.not everyone is made for that
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u/Jumpy_Savings1451 1d ago
Would love to work for like 12 hrs everyday where i can learn n use my potential n also earn money..as my brain is sitting idle at my psb job.
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u/BeltLopsided3481 1d ago
The feeling of 'I don't know anything else' is what gets to all of us. But remember, software engineering is just problem-solving. Those 9 YOE aren't just about writing code; they're about managing projects, handling clients, and debugging systems. Those skills transfer. Don't panic.
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u/Valuable-Cake-14 19h ago
But don't you think that effectively AI is creating a scarcity of jobs which is indeed an issue?
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u/No_Dream_8385 6h ago
Not for the right people,. So you need to have skills that are not transferable to AI. Like ownership, accountability, delivery. Project management
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u/Sufficient-West-5456 21h ago
Buddy, first America and Europe outsource job to India. Many people here struggled
Now it's time they outsource your job to AI
The cycle of life. Suffer like we do.
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u/Interesting_Ad3658 14h ago
it's gonna impact you guys too no?
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u/Sufficient-West-5456 14h ago
We are impacted for many years: we are damaged here and we know it. But it feels good knowing you are suffering with us now.
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u/Interesting_Ad3658 14h ago
Yeah man!! Btw, how does the AI scene feel like in the West? Things feel so uncertain over here.
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u/MasalaMonk 1d ago
I switched from Dev to Tech sales/tech pre sales in non tech domain.. Basically selling tech/ai solutions to non tech companies. I am also cooked ?
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u/Nirdesh_19 39m ago
hi bro
wanted to know
how you switched from tech to tech sales ?do you mind telling me about it?
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u/Encrypted_Cerebrum 1d ago
Everyone keeps talking about upskilling but the job market itself is terrible.
Exactly. And I've been screaming this but ppl don't listen. They again are going into tutorial loops and course sellers are ince again selling "become ai engineer". What will you do when there's no job in the first place?????
This is not a time to run towards courses and then apply mindlessly to jobs and if by luck you get a job then stay there. Nope. That job can go away anytime.
This is not " oh Ai isn't smart enough to take the jobs, they still need developers ".
Companies do not care about your stupid arguments. They care about numbers. Clients have decreased the payouts. Companies are bleeding money. They don't care about what you think. They'll just cut the jobs and lower the wages.
So what everyone needs to do is look beyond this stupid "upskill and get new job he he " BS. You gotta have a plan B. You gotta use your brain and look beyond this mindfuggery.
You're smart but the brain have been trained into thinking 1-dimensional approach of reading/studying and working somewhere and buying luxury things on EMI.
Take risks when you're in the job. I've seen people selling only 2 kinda soup on carts and making wayy more than what they were earning. Selling simple fruitcream on carts, marketing through insta and now owning their own shops.
I am myself looking into these possibilities while i can. No work is small. Just do a market research And the profits will blow your mind.
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u/NaRaGaMo 23h ago
to be fair the overwhelming majority of IT folks are the people propping up the overpriced food and cafe industry. if we are not there who will buy the 900₹ sandwich?
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u/Encrypted_Cerebrum 22h ago
There are people who are far richer than IT guys. The vast majority you see isn't earning alot. Most of indian IT is working below 12lpa.
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u/Tiramisu_211 15h ago
You are assuming only the rich go to these cafes. Majority of the iphones are bought in emis. A significant number of lower middle class goes to these cafes to flex in insta.
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u/Candid_Kiwi_4923 1d ago
I too think that this ship has sailed and we need to find a new way to get to the shore.
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u/Encrypted_Cerebrum 1d ago
Yes bro. At the end it's all about making money. That time of brainstorming in code is gone. Ai does that and is great at that. I've been coding through ai for more than 1.5 years now. Our whole team writes code through claude. None has written even 1 line of code by hand. And this is a product used by giants like accenture, nationwide, redhat, jpmc, uber and so on.. mostly fortune 100 companies.
So that " Ai can't do xyz things " is just noise created by tech influencers because they NEED ppl to believe them otherwise they won't earn jackshit.
Only way ahead is pivot or have a secondary source which one can turn into primary easily. All software engineers have advantage of thinking clearly and evaluating things. If we use our experience wisely at right things, we can succeed without this rat race which will lead only to a dead end.
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u/ihavebeliefinyou 1d ago
Lemme add to your nightmares, who said that AI hasn't proved to be profitable yet?
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u/RAGBaiter 1d ago
+1. The company I work for is already clocking 1B$ + ARR from AI products itself.. let alone their core business.
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u/ImpossibleRule2717 1d ago
Who’s buying these products if no one has a job
I can’t workout this math at all. Someone enlighten
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u/ANerdVirginShh 4h ago
Um businesses? World doesn't revolve around employees, its the business who do most revenue
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u/SympathyMotor4765 23h ago
Think frontier labs can't show a profit if they account for training and operational costs.
Inference alone is still profitable. The best case scenario involves the overlords realising AI will make software itself worthless and spare a few jobs out of self preservation... Don't see that happening
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u/valuesVoyager 1d ago
What's so surprising? Mtlv were u not reading signs? Gold accumulation by china, india. Recent interest rate hikes in US. Circular valuation bubble in ai companies, and competition from commodty chinese models. Each employee is using tokens worth almost their own salary.
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u/U_HIT_MY_DOG 13h ago
before covid MS had 50k to 75k employees. Before the 2022 layoff they were at 150k headcount. Thats just FTEs and then there are contractors..
the revenue did not grow as much as they wanted and ever since they are trying to squeeze ppl. I have recently left MS and there is some automation that quite ground breaking (every service has an MCP service) and there are quite a few support tasks that can be automated. That being said the business as a whole cant function purely on AI. Yes junior engineers are not needed for small tasks and IDE to prod code deployment is quite seamless now and what we call Product Velocity is higher.
But to put a single button in a UI there needs to be rounds of discussion and design that is still needed. This VRO was first given to all old folks that was under 70 and their level plus tenure was 70 and above. Because managers are hit more cause ICs do most of the work and if you have less than 10 ppl it does not make sense to manage.
ull need to update urslef and be dynamic and use more AI .. we are token maxing at our new place. Just to see whats the most efficient way to do what. Software engineering is not going anywhere but there will be no backend or front end engineer anymore. ull need to be a fullstack and beyond.
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u/theguy2108 1d ago
I work in a startup that is extremely AI native, to the point, where there have been continuous layoffs but output has increased tremendously. Everyone runs 4-5 parallel agents at all times and slack is just agents talking to each other at this point.
And the worst is yet to come, most companies haven't adopted AI to its full potential. After Full AI adoption, companies would need 1 engineer for 20 that they have now. I used to think that maybe AI companies would raise the cost of models before their IPOs and that might slow this down, but the latest open weight KIMI model is on-par with the. frontier models, so cost is also not going to be a major concern.
And this is the worst it will ever be.
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u/ok-chanakya 23h ago
Exactly 💯
Most companies haven't adopted AI to its full potential. People still say it can't code reliably.
Bring on the right system and integrate properly and its very powerful.
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u/Alive-Cookie-4556 22h ago
But if you guys run 4-5 agents all the time. Isnt the token cost very high? How much is the AI spend per employee?
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u/ItzHolmes- 1d ago
My tier 3 city single college it self has multiple cse branches each branch 3 section each section 50-55 average students. Imagine tthis is just 1 college. They all getting cooked
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u/ab_heisenberg 23h ago
Exactly, there were never enough jobs to absorb so many CS students. Till now it was still manageable but I can't imaging what they all will be doing in a few years. Every kid from my own family / friend circle is taking up CSE like it promises 20LPA for everyone. They all are going in a very rude surprise.
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u/PhaseStreet9860 1d ago edited 23h ago
You can't survive just by coding skills , understand the business domain which you are working.
AI will become more powerful going forward
Stay calm and ride the AI wave by increasing the efficiency of the products which you are building
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u/AdminZer0 1d ago
There are 5M+ employees in several companies, what is there to be scared? Jobs have always been difficult to find.
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u/Brainiac-CEO 1d ago
With 9YOE, you have wayyy more leverage than you think, so just hoard cash and stop loosing sleep over corporate decisions you cannot control
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u/redditantareddit 1d ago
Intelligence can be bought through tokens why invest a guy who studied for 20 years lol
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u/Zestyclose_Tap_1889 22h ago
I joined microsoft last year. Even my stocks are not vested yet🥲
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u/Straight-Ear6329 21h ago edited 21h ago
I keep hearing the bubble will burst but it feels different. I am in touch with a senior engineer and product manager from US and he straightaway told me that this will not slow down at all. I am glad I did my MBA, but I am also worried that this all is happening so fast.
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u/TheTruelyFaithful 1d ago
Your anxiety is understandable, but the best antidote is preparation. Build an emergency fund covering six to twelve months of expenses if you can. Knowing you can survive a gap between jobs takes away a lot of the fear, and it lets you choose your next move calmly instead of panicking.
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u/bigfeatherhead 1d ago
Hold it out for a few years and this shall pass. Right now the supply has outpaced demand in the IT space and hence follows the job cuts.
The same roles won't return but jobs in the IT industry will return. Until then, stay tight.
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u/pushangupta 1d ago
Dont be scared. Just learn stuff while this gets settled.
For long time we have been in a state where just grind DSA and never focused well on really building stuff.
The time to learn more than DSA has arrived ♥️
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u/PruneCalm8163 1d ago
Stop applying to the big name companies (fangmula etc) and you will be happier. They don’t deserve the talent they have got. Everyone should boycott, they deserve a severe punishment.
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