r/cortexplus • u/[deleted] • Apr 14 '18
Marvel Heroic rules questions
Okay, this is pretty much just a bank for me to throw my questions as I come across them.
First one to mind today, do you count characters that have traits like Durability as having a narrative effect as well as a mechanical one? I was thinking about this in the case of Count Nefaria. He's insanely tough, and it's not like the Invisible Woman where it's a force field. He's just inherently resistant to harm.
Anyways, I was running Breakout and one of my players, Black Panther, scored particularly high on a roll to attack Nefaria, describing it as sneaking behind him whilst the fight was focused on Spider-Man who was another player. Now, Black Panther is just an enhanced human. Should he really be able to harm Nefaria with attacks like that? He's weathered blows from Thor himself. I was at a loss on how to justify it narratively.
The same went for complications that should be easy to dispell. Like when he was tied up to Spider-Man's webbing, which sat at a d10. I wasn't quite sure how to see he'd just simply destroy it with an ionic energy blast.
Anyways, just looking for your thoughts on the narrative implication of powers. I suppose the same goes Zzzax when you consider he's permanently intangible.
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u/siebharinn Apr 14 '18
Part of the fun, I think, is coming up with ways for those results to make sense. You see them all the time in the comics - sometimes a villain withstands withering punishment, sometimes they are defeated by something seemingly minor. It's a pretty swingy game, because that's how the comics are.
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Apr 17 '18
As a watcher, do I have a prerogative to challenge them to justify their dice pools with the descriptions of their actions before they roll?
Like, say we have Captain America fighting Thor. If Captain America's player describes trying to straight up brawl with Thor, for whatever reason, and he tried to roll his Enhanced Strength, would I need to tell them that it wouldn't really make sense narratively. Like, try as he will, Captain America's strength isn't going to help him achieve any hit on Thor, regardless of how hard he tries to hit. Same as Batman vs Superman.
Otherwise, any character with two power sets is easily gonna trump over a character with one powerful set.
Also, actual rules question: Is targeting a scene distinction as well as a Watcher or Player character a valid use of area attack?
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u/siebharinn Apr 17 '18
do I have a prerogative to challenge them to justify their dice pools with the descriptions of their actions before they roll?
They should always justify the dice that goes into the pool. For MHRP, that is the action. That is a large part of the fun of this kind of game.
If Captain America's player describes trying to straight up brawl with Thor, for whatever reason, and he tried to roll his Enhanced Strength, would I need to tell them that it wouldn't really make sense narratively.
I disagree. If Cap is trying to punch something, it makes sense for enhanced strength to be there. It's not really up to you as the Watcher to say that the punch isn't effective - that's what the dice do. Where you want to draw the line is if someone playing Cap wants to use his Godlike Durability to punch Thor. That just doesn't make sense for an attack. But Enhanced Strength totally makes sense.
Otherwise, any character with two power sets is easily gonna trump over a character with one powerful set.
On paper, yes. In my experience though, creativity will give better results than raw number crunching. Being able to have an extra die in the pool is great, but there are plenty of SFXs that will give an extra die, or the player could spend a PP to get an extra die, or creatively taking advantage of the combat situation can give extra dice (using a target's complications against them, etc). In play, the difference between one or two power sets isn't that big.
Is targeting a scene distinction as well as a Watcher or Player character a valid use of area attack?
Sure, but I would be a little wary with area attacks. That's the part of the game where I have seen the most munchkining happen. There are certainly times when an area effect could target a scene distinction along with other targets, but I would keep that pretty limited. As is, I keep a close rein on area effects anyway.
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u/Roswynn Apr 15 '18
I think the d10 for Nefaria's Durability is a little conservative. It should be d12. With SFXs to spare on the resistance and strength fronts. Senses too. His energy blast at d8 looks a little too weak as well. Okay, all his stats are really low for what we know he can do, he should be absolutely invincible without using a device to disrupt his ionic energy - he might not even need stats at all, you'd spend a whole scenario just trying to put together such a device, b/c there's no other way to defeat him (maybe putting him in an accelerated time loop and having him automatically discharge his ion energy all the time... after 3 weeks it would probably be depleted).
So, I would say, "Okay, this is an alternate version of Count Nefaria, much weaker - still formidable, but not the kind of demigod he's in the comics". Or, "Count Nefaria has been visibly weakened by his imprisonment by SHIELD, they used one of their technological countermeasures to keep him in check and he hasn't completely recovered yet".
Way I see it Nefaria's exactly the wrong guy to use for a mid-session action scene, and the way they statted him is obviously not at his full power, like, absolutely not. They might have given some kind of warning about this in the Event, and possibly advice on how to handle the discrepancy, but, whatever, it's done.
Another point - let's get back to Black Panther damaging Nefaria, or to Nefaria being trapped by Spidey's web - if you don't feel the player's narrative is adequate for what the dice are telling you, try to work with them to find a way it makes sense. This isn't restricted to Nefaria - you can always tell your players, "Wait, that doesn't make sense to me, let's think this through". The narrative implication of powers is already in their dice and SFX, partly, meaning heroes and villains don't usually get extra powers in addition to what's on their sheets, but if something doesn't make sense to you, talk about it with your players, and if someone narrates what should be an amazing, unexpected success as an underwhelming routine attack, tell them so and kindly ask them to step it up. It's not bad form to ask your players to be more creative.
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Apr 30 '18
I'm just wondering here, what happens if neither you, as the Watcher, or the players, can find a creative, or narratively justifiable way to allow the dice roll to stand? Do you still allow it to stand, ignore it, or do some other thing?
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u/CamBanks Apr 17 '18
Nefaria was definitely not at the height of his powers during the Breakout. I mean, he was dead for years. This is his resurrected ionic energy version, albeit the version that his daughter disrupted and who spent months locked up in the Raft. He gets his ass handed to him later on during his time with the Hood. I think it’s because Bendis found him ludicrous.
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u/defunctdeity Apr 14 '18 edited Apr 14 '18
So you said you had a rules question but this isn't a rules question. This is a flavor - or fiction - question.
What other Traits did Black panther use to do the damage? Maybe he hit her(?) right in the eye? Maybe he used Nefaria's own power against her, turning the moment from an aggressive attack to have her driver herself into a wall? This isn't D&D, one Action Roll is not just one swing of a fist - it's an entire exchange.
Same with Spider-Man's webbing. It's only a d10 "penalty" to her targets Reactions. So maybe the webbing Spidey shot between her feet and the ground is barely noticed, so she doesn't even bother to distract herself to blast it with her ionic thingy? Maybe it's a continuous spray of webbing throughout her next Action, Spidy pouring it on as fast as she can burn it away?
Big takeaway is - This is not D&D, these are not singular discreet things they are doing. One roll can represent what would be a dozen actions in a D&D game.
The roll was made so you need to let it stand. And thereby you need to let the players narrate/do awesome things. Let them determine how they achieved the mechanical result.