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u/Revolutionary_Act427 Aug 03 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
If Trump wins the Election in 2024, all that does is delay the trial and/or sentencing.
The rule is that no person may be a judge in his or her own case. Which stems from a legal principal that was established over three centuries ago in Anglo-American law.
Besides that, why does 'pardoning yourself' not sound like a guilty plea? If you did nothing wrong, then why not allow the law to run it's course? The guilty will always claim "fraud" or "witch hunt", but there should be a pretty obvious reason why. Right?🤔
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
He wouldn’t be a judge. Nearly every president pardons people. There is no law preventing him from pardoning himself. Also the courts are not always fair and unbiased. Courts can absolutely get corrupted. Lots of examples of that. Trump would not be able to pardon himself on the state cases fyi. Those are not subject to a federal pardon.
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u/Revolutionary_Act427 Aug 04 '23
Laws are written to protect our general safety, and ensure our rights as citizens against abuses by other people and organizations.
"If you don't want to do the time don't do the crime", should be pretty self explanatory.
The guilty person and their constituents always complain that the courts can become corrupted.
Which is why there's almost always an Appeals Process.
You're arguing before the trial has even begun, however, so how exactly do you think that your opinion on the matter is unbiased?
Trials are a structured process where the facts of a case are presented to a jury, and they decide if the defendant is guilty or not guilty of the charges offered.
There were a lot more issues to Trumps 4 years as potus than just the J6 debacle, as I'm sure these will come to light during the trial.
So, why not just hear the facts and make your determination for yourself instead of prejudging?
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23
I think you are responding to the wrong comment and to he wrong person. Playing the straw man argument.
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u/Drs83 Aug 03 '23
Sounds like the best solution is to vote for someone else in the primary who actually has a chance at beating Biden. According to this tweet, if Trump wins the primary he's going to jail. I mean, DC_Draino is a massive Trump simp, so you have to take anything posted with a massive grain of salt, but whatever.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 03 '23
If he goes to jail it will be after the election. This also doesn’t include appeals. This literally could take years. Dems intent is to drag his name through the mud throughout.
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u/Revolutionary_Act427 Aug 04 '23
To the contrary, these are things that Trump did to himself. Defrauding the American Public is a serious crime, on top of everything else he's being accused of.
Going through a legal trial is about hearing the facts, which will obviously result in continually hearing Trump post about how he's being "unfairly treated" and "witch-hunt". ..it is literally the only way he can fight these accusations and strengthen his political base.
...so, I don't believe it's the other guy working to drag his name through the mud, more than the accused "playing victim".
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
Very serious huh? There is no law called defrauding the American people 😂. Quite listening to CNN! The actual law they are skewing is “Conspiracy to Defraud the United States”. that law is based on property and money not on protected speech. For instance Hillary Clinton and Stacey abrams both claimed the elections were stolen from them. Should we charge them too? Trump has a right to say the the election was stolen from him (whether it’s true or not is irrelevant). If we were to charge politicians for lying we would arrest almost all of them. Hell Joe Biden has been lying for 40 years. Get real kid you are talking nonsense.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 03 '23
I don’t necessarily agree with the “what’s at stake comment”.I think if Desantis wins the presidency he would also pardon Trump. Obviously a democrat would never.
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Aug 04 '23
Why would you pardon someone so guilty?
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
Guilty of what? free speech is free speech. Politicians lie all the time. If we are going to convict him based on spreading “false” information then we need to convict nearly every politician. For reference Stacey Abrams claimed for years the election was stolen from her, Hillary Clinton for a time did as well, and many other politicians. No matter how much you hate the man there should not be a different standard of justice for people that you hate. That’s not called justice. That’s called political prosecution, mob rule and makes you a hypocrite. Hitler, Stalin and many other people and parties have both prosecuted their political opposition over frivolous things.
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u/Blobbo9 Aug 05 '23
This case is far more debatable than the documents one. The documents case is pretty open and shut. Don’t do a whataboutism, there’s a clear difference between what Biden and Pence did, and what Trump did. The fact that all three of them kept confidential documents is pretty telling for the state of US politics but I digress.
In Biden and Pence’s case, they immediately returned the documents when the government requested. In Trump’s case, there is a huge amount of evidence alleging that he knew he had these documents and legally couldn’t keep them, he refused to return them, and he actively tried to hide them when the government came looking.
Trump isn’t being indicted for having the documents, he’s being indicted for illegally keeping them even after the feds requested them back. The case as a whole is pretty damning, and is, to me, by far the strongest indictment against Trump in his political career. If you have a response that isn’t “What about Biden” then feel free to respond.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 05 '23 edited Aug 05 '23
I responded to you on the other one. So in order to keep this short I’ll just mention about classified documents as it pertains to Biden. Problem with Biden from my understanding is yes he gave the documents back but as a senator you don’t have access to documents in the same way the pres/vice does. From what has been reported most of it was his time as a senator. People in congress have to use the SCIF in which all documents are not allowed to be removed. So exactly how did he obtain them? Did he stuff them in his clothes like Berger did? If so that needs to be prosecuted. Sadly we may never know that answer. They won’t prosecute him over even if there was some criminal acts involved.
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Aug 04 '23
I know that trial is over, but the guy was found liable for raping someone. I’m sure his supporters unfortunately paid that $5mil bill…
Talking/lying is one thing, urging your supporters to interrupt official government proceedings in order to maintain power is slightly different. People literally died that day because Trump (knowingly) lied to you. He is taking you all for fools and advancing his selfish agenda.
And that wasn’t the only thing he put in place to remain in power. You really should read his 45 page indictment, it can tell you everything you need to know.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
The criminal rape trial didn’t happen. If you look at her nonsense statement that kept changing you would see why. Prosecutors couldn’t go to trial with that garbage. The civil court was nothing but a money grab. You could convict a conservative ham sandwich in liberal counties. As far as Jan 6 he didn’t urge them to interrupt a government proceeding. He literally told them to protest peacefully. Nothing wrong with that. That is a constitutionally protected right. If you are going to convict him over that I guess we need to charge Bernie Sanders for attempted murder because one of his supporters went and shot a bunch of people because of his rhetoric. Neither person is guilty of incitement which is the actual criminal charge that isn’t actually in the inditement. As far as saying people died that day and blaming trump is just a disgusting lie. A capitol police officer had a medical emergency and died of natural causes that day. It’s unfortunate but it does happen. As far the electors goes well see. I would like see what evidence if any. The Mike pence thing he asked him to suspend the certification in lieu of a full scale investigation into potential voter fraud. Mike pence refused and I’m sure (paraphrasing) said something to the effect of not enough evidence, authority and/or prolly not the proper way to do it etc etc. Maybe even an argument broke out (who knows). But what we do know is Pence certified the election as required of his duties and Trump has ran his mouth since about him. I’m sure in Trump’s mind he truly did have the election stolen and thought he had enough to ask or request. That’s why you have staff and people around you as president to check you. That’s apart of collaborating and conversation. Is that bad behavior? Perhaps, depending on how that conversation went. Was it criminal? Doesn’t look like it. The federal government is claiming he tried to make a sham investigation to uphold the certification purposely. Not sure about that. We’ll see. They will try to keep it in DC so they can get a conviction from people that hate him that have already found him guilty without a trial (like you). So we’ll see if they get a change of venue. No way they would have filed this in any state other than a lefty liberal state. Not this case. As far as trump lying to me etc etc. no I don’t think so. nice try. I don’t like Trump and do think he’s a lying jerk, has an ego larger than the state of alaska and his behavior is not something I like. However not liking him is not enough reason to put him in prison over nonsense. If that’s how you feel I’m sure the communist nations would gladly take you in with that type of thinking. Next time actually look into some of things you are actually saying instead of listening to the lying media.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
Let’s say for argument he is guilty of everything they say etc. The trial would go on for years and the country would be enthralled, riots etc would over shadow the next president’s entire tenure. The media coverage would be all over trump and not of the potential things the newly elected president is doing. So for the sake of the country and the president and his/her administration maybe it’s best to let him be forgotten and move on with things for the country and look towards the future. That’s exactly why they pardoned Richard Nixon fyi. They didn’t want that circus. Today’s democrats don’t have that type of virtue or forethought. Those clowns will run that circus to the ground.
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Aug 05 '23
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 05 '23
That’s a good question. I’m not sure of him. He’s also a lefty and it’s hard for me to imagine he would. But who knows. You might be right
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u/Bookworm1902 Aug 04 '23
I'm sorry, but pardoning yourself is the stupidest thing to ever be conceptualized. Presidential pardons are idiotic at best, but how is pardoning oneself not an inherently dictatorial act? Sure takes "rules for thee, but not for me" to a whole new level.
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Aug 04 '23
Funny, I just got this notification while I was in the middle of reading his indictment.
This man is a criminal. If the US elects this scum, we truly do deserve the worst. The damage this vengeful rapist will do is going to be catastrophic.
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u/CoCoNutsGirl98 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
Just because the indictment alleges certain crimes were committed doesn’t mean its true. Trump is “scum?” What about the corrupt pedo who was installed in the WH ? The man is creepy, pathetic, brain dead and as corrupt as they come. 20 shell corporations with no known business ?? 170 SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORTS made by banks relative to the biden crime family bank accounts ? Anyone with 2 SARs would have difficulty opening a bank account in the US. The SCUM is joe biden a career grifter as well as his devil spawn, crack head, moron son who has made a living selling access to pedo joe.
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Aug 04 '23
I hope Trump gets the fairest and most impartial trial this nation has ever seen.
I haven’t any actual evidence of Bidens crimes yet. Happy for you to send some reputable links though.
If Biden is even half the criminal Trump is, you can lock him up and throw away the key.
Who would idolise a politician enough to ignore their crimes? Sounds culty and immoral to me.
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u/Individual_Holiday56 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
No evidence? Recorded phone calls, shell companies, bank statements, whistleblowers, business partners, forms, claims etc. hell even hunter biden admitted he accepted money from foreign entities to include China. The CEO of Burisma is claiming he was coerced to paying the Biden’s $10m to fire the prosecutor. you haven’t seen any of that? Might want to go look at it.
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u/DarthBalls5041 Aug 03 '23
I am very much of the opinion that the RNC party needs to prohibit trump from representing the party. The primary process of allowing the people to select the nominee has just become too ridiculous at this point. It never became like this until the 60s and it’s only becoming worse.
If trump runs and wins, we have a constitutional crisis. It’s highly likely he gets convicted by a DC jury of these charges. LET him try to run as a third party candidate with this going on. He’ll be finished
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u/understand_world Aug 04 '23
I can agree to an extent, but do you think defeating him is going to conclusively solve the problem?
Trump opened the door to this kind of sensationalism. What I’m afraid of is that it’ll spread to the Democrats. In some ways it arguably has.
What I’m afraid of is that at a certain point we’ll have a presidential debate that sounds like an exchange on Twitter.
God help us if we consider that to be proper discourse. Our society will suffer for it.
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u/DarthBalls5041 Aug 06 '23
Im with you completely.
But I think if we had a Republican candidate that WASNT doing that, we’ll win any election with a democrat. They can’t defend their policies
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u/understand_world Aug 06 '23
But I think if we had a Republican candidate that WASNT doing that, we’ll win any election with a democrat. They can’t defend their policies
That’s what I had hoped De Santis would be, but IMO he kept escalating his policies and now the things coming out of his campaign seem like the reflection of the things the Left said about him when he was acting reasonable.
I was actually really excited when I heard Ramaswamy speak because he pointed out some things that are very real in a nuanced way, but the more I listened to his podcast with Jordan Peterson the more I felt he was doing the same it’s the end of the world narrative Peterson pointed out that Left wingers do.
I feel like everyone talks about a return to tradition and reasonable values but no one really has a concrete solution in terms of what are those actual values. I feel like putting on the “full armor of God” has become an ability to pick and choose.
My worst fear here is that the reason people are acting this way is because it works— which means to me there’s something foundational that’s askew. Like we’re not even reasoning like we used to.
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u/WhippersnapperUT99 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
Republicans need to distance themselves from Trump and disown him as fast as they can.
"I believe that Trump is the largest threat today to this republic. ... He has basically destroyed the only opposition party to the Democrats."
The 2024 election is probably already lost regardless of who the candidate is as they will be saddled with the Republican Party having been associated with Trump, Jan 6, election denialism, anti-intellectualism and the abortion issue. Donors should focus on House, Senate, and state elections and save presidential donation money for 2028.
This bit might be of interest to some: You said that there are good Republican candidates in the coming primaries. Who are they?
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u/Bqeclisa Aug 03 '23
I am going to vote for him anyway. Because they hate him! Even if I have to write him in.
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u/thorleywinston Aug 03 '23
I think that the RNC need to tell Trump that if he runs as third-party candidate and causes Biden to win the election, that Republicans will co-sponsor legislation with Democrats to remove the Secret Service protection from any President convicted of a federal crime so instead of being confined at home in Margo Largo, he faces the possibility of doing time in an actual prison.
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u/CoCoNutsGirl98 Aug 03 '23 edited Aug 03 '23
Everything is so crooked and corrupt now, I have no doubt he will be convicted. Pro-biden jury pool and the pro-obama/dem (anti j6) judge will grant the prosecution’s pretrial motions and deny the defense’s pretrial motions and the trial will be very lopsided. This is where the evidence that can be presented at trial will be decided. The dems have obliterated the US Justice system. No American should have faith in it after what we are witnessing.
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u/Hot_Rip_9920 Aug 03 '23
I thought a president couldn’t pardon themselves?