r/ahl • u/Main-Ad4873 • 13d ago
Belleville Senators Attendance
I moved away from Belleville 26 years ago and was a Bulls fan of the OHL so I was curious and streamed a bit of a recent Belleville Senators AHL game and noticed that the rink was like 90% empty. Is it always like this? For Bulls games it used to be mostly full.
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u/Crabby_avocado 13d ago
It’s hard to compare Laval and and smaller markets like Belleville or others. The population of Laval is roughly over half a million by itself and I’m not even counting the north shore, Montreal and the south shore. Alot of the people will go see the Rocket over the Canadians because of accessibility.
Even the average family income is way higher in Laval than Belleville. That’s another thing to factor in. I’m originally from Laval and now living in Belleville for the past couple of years. The one thing I have to say that Belleville does better though, the Sens are way more involved in the community and with the fans. Than the Rocket is.
My apologies if what I’m trying to say doesn’t make complete sense, my brain had a hard time translating from french to english.
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u/linuxlifer 13d ago edited 13d ago
Well its not 90% empty lol. Its literally never in history been 90% empty even during the worst snow storms since the team has been in Belleville.
The senators average the same attendance that the bulls did for all but like 3 seasons that the bulls were here (1999, 2000, 2001).
But to answer your question, if the game you watched was very low attendance, no its not always like that but it is quite often. If you pay attention to a lot of the games, you will notice games against Laval and Toronto are always busier.
The problem with Belleville is if you look at all of the hockey fans in town, you have like 70% Leafs fans, 20% Montreal fans, 5% Ottawa fans and then 5% other teams. Or at least thats how it was when the Sens first came here. I have noticed over the years starting to see more Ottawa jerseys around town and seemingly more Sens fans as people grow into having the Sens here. You also have to take into consideration that Belleville is probably the smallest market in the league. Also, according to the Google, Belleville has the lowest average wages compared to all of the Canadian cities with AHL teams. You start to add all of these things up and you understand why they can't fill the arena every night. The AHL schedule is also kind of boring. You basically never play teams in the other conference and 80% of your schedule is just teams in your division. So you are basically constantly watching the same teams.
When Eugene Melnyk originally bought and put the Sens in Belleville he said he was hoping to do two things. One bring the team closer to Ottawa to make it a lot easier to move players up and down. But also, he was hoping to convert more people in the 613 area code to Sens fans rather then Leafs/Canadians fans. And he admitted he knew this wasn't going to be something that happened overnight. Obviously Melnyk is gone and Andlauer is now in, but Andlauer seems to have dug in and supported Belleville up to this point and for at least a few more years.
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u/DryPainter1868 13d ago
I've been following the team for years now - and attendance has steadily improved more than declined. I remember when we came back just after the pandemic, and it was bare.
I will say, a main reason why you'll see the rink empty on camera a good amount is mainly due to the fact that majority of spectators choose seats in the higher rows. I even sit up higher and I'm at every game. In my personal opinion, there aren't too many bad seats in the arena but the first 5 rows going up are my least favourite in the CAA. Can barely see the game. There's more than what's shown, but even then the rink can be empty.
Belleville's market is hard - many families are dealing with financial troubles (as I'm sure many in Canada are) & we've got one of the smallest markets in the league. Not to mention, this market is still filled with Leafs fans. If I were to make a demographic, I would say 75 percent of this town is Leafs fans, 10 percent is Habs fans, 5 percent are Ottawa fans & the rest are either the Oilers, Flames or the Bruins. That was the main perk as to why the Bulls succeeded was that none of their teams conflicted with the OHL club, so this city rallied by. Even then, there's many who are Leafs/Habs/Bruins supporters here that avidly support the B-Sens.
Not to mention, the AHL struggles with mid week and Sunday games. If anything, they're the most struggling days to get attendance in the building. This city has a lot of young families especially, so it's understandable that parents aren't going to choose a Wednesday over a Saturday when it comes to putting their kids to bed. It's the same around the league.
Big Canadian cities like Laval always sell out or do well because they're essentially right in Montreal and have solid deals + a competitive team, so they tend to pique interest every year. Other than that, Toronto struggled with attendance a bit last year to the point they were closing off seats with sponsor covers, Calgary can be bare, Abbotsford's had it's fair share of struggles, and Hamilton went from essentially selling out their home opener with 14,131 to barely filling the arena 25% with 4,876. It happens. Just the joys of the American League.
Belleville's trying to get people in the arena with 15 dollar tickets, and it's working as even some of the people I know in life that may not be as interested in hockey actually like that price. That was the same price many Bulls fans spent on Bulls tickets & is competitive with the Golden Hawks and Dukes (OJHL Junior A) in the area. They're still struggling with one component and that's concessions - and they were raised this year after switching companies, and like I said with this market being small, many can't afford the food items that are listed. That needs to change to create growth in sales - lower prices, advertise your deals, create demand, gain more in sales and actually increase your profits. Families knowing you have high concession prices is a deterrent to them coming back sooner rather than later. Belleville has free parking though except for one spot, so I'll give them that.
Team's incredibly involved with the community, and is the #1 spot to get autographs in the league. Lots of initiatives that have succeeded for this team.
Converting Leafs/Habs fans to Sens fans is a process that's taking a while, but it's working. There's now many kids in this area that grew up watching the B-Sens and decided that Ottawa was going to be their team. That's a win-win for Ottawa. At the end of the day, this is the pipeline to build the next Ottawa Senators, so fans & players win in terms of travel between rinks (2 and a half hours) and teams win because they can call someone up at 12pm right after practice ends in Belleville and get them there for 4:30 fed and ready to play for the big club. That's where the win happens for Ottawa
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u/Prestigious_Cap_8063 13d ago
I feel like they should’ve kept the bulls name. Those nights seem to be popping and everyone has fond memories of the team.
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u/Miltroit 13d ago edited 13d ago
I just searched, CIBC Place capacity for hockey is 4,365.
Attendance reported for the 3 games so far this season (according to the game sheets on theAHL):
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3,573 - Friday night home opener, not bad.
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1,838 - Sunday 3 pm afternoon game, same weekend as the opener.
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1,721 - Sunday 5 pm early evening game.
That does seem pretty low. Not 90%, but I can see how it would feel like that.
You can search annual attendance by team in Hockeydb, here's a link to the Sens.
https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=12221
Looks like the Sens peaked the first year, 2017-18, with an average of 3,603 attendees. They have not cracked 3,000 since.
Belleville Bulls were averaging around 3,000 attendees 26 years ago. https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=4817
However, I'll argue this season is too new for a good season average to compare, so the Sens are still generally averaging better than the Bulls were for the last 5 years of the Bulls, Bulls last season being 2014-15.
My local team doesn't have ANY home games on Sundays until after early February so as not to compete for attention with the NFL. I don't know what might be a big draw / competition for attention on Sundays in Belleville, but perhaps that's the problem? I checked, Ottawa Sens were not playing on those Sundays.
edit to add: May just be that the last two games it was a weekend afternoon and it's still nice out. I love winter, but a hockey game is an easier sell when it's already dark at 5 and it's cold out.
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u/Squeggee 13d ago
Here is a small clip of what i meant about attendance. I know this doesn't show the whole arena but was surprised how empty it was.
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u/QuestionTurbulent723 12d ago
As someone who supports Belleville living in the capital region in New York I have noticed that Utica, Syracuse, and Rochester pull better crowds than most for Minor league hockey. Rochester is a given because that hgockey town for them. I have a flex package this season for Utica so I can watch Belleville more closely in person and they pull pretty good attendance for that area of New York not being too special. Before the Senators moved to Belleville the Binghamton Team attendance was pretty good. Shoutout 2011 Calder Cup Champion Goaltender Robin Lehner
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u/Sierra93 13d ago
We have a similar issue in Abbotsford as well, I have also seen it in Calgary. (Laval seems to be the exception)
The Canadian AHL teams that moved closer to their markets have to share a lot of their fans with the NHL team.
Also the price to get into some of these games can be so stupid. Then there's the cost of food drink and parking.
While it is still cheaper than an NHL game, it can still cost $200-$300 to go to a game as a family.
I've travelled to a couple AHL arenas now and know that cheap seats, free parking and affordable concessions help a whole lot to get people in the door on a regular basis.