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u/Latetotheparty1980 Sep 13 '26 edited Sep 14 '26
There are some nice neighborhoods and pockets of good stuff, but now that I live in a city that is very walkable and has good public transit, I could never live in the Valley again. Too much sprawl, having to drive 25 minutes or more to get from 1 portion of the Valley (Chandler or Tempe) to another (Scottsdale or Glendale). It kind of sucks if you have friends spread out in all parts of the Valley.
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u/Ok-Astronaut2976 Sep 13 '26
While I agree with the overall sentiment…speaking as a New Yorker…taking 25 minute to drive from one suburb to another suburb on opposite sides of town sounds incredible. Shit, would take me 26 minutes to drive to Yankee stadium right now, and that’s just 5 miles away.
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u/rodolfor90 Sep 13 '26
agreed, i know people love to trash phoenix here but among the top 20 metro areas in the country phoenix has by far the least traffic
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u/DamiensDelight Sep 14 '26
I don't think your statement is correct on Phoenix traffic. I lived in the East valley for 18 years. Routinely spent 12 hours a week in rush hour traffic, and I never worked more than 15 miles from where I lived.
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u/Prestigious-Glove-12 Sep 14 '26
No traffic just takes you 45 min to get 20 miles. Horrible intersections. I-10 enough said
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u/rumblepony247 Sep 14 '26
Occasionally people on the Phoenix Reddit subs will complain about the freeway/road system.
That lets me know they haven't traveled much, because our road infrastructure is very good for the size of our city, both in terms of maintenance and availability of freeway options.
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u/Latetotheparty1980 Sep 13 '26
Totally fair! It's been several years since I've driven out there so maybe it's gotten better (or worse). I don't particularly care for driving, so I think that made it feel worse, more stressful.
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u/1382mas Sep 14 '26
Take the train!
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u/Ok-Astronaut2976 Sep 14 '26
The 1 doesn’t go to there…
Anyway, ya…that’s why people typically take the train, but driving is generally more convenient is all, depending on where you’re going. Like if you’re going from Baychester to Coney Island it’s taking you almost two hours regardless what you riding.
So 25 minutes to go completely cross town, is pretty cool is all1
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
then don't drive. walk or take transport. its a city not a suburb!
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u/HenryBozzio Sep 13 '26 edited Sep 15 '26
You call it “the valley,” you definitely used to live here
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u/wzlch47 Sep 14 '26
I grew up in Phoenix in the 70s and 80s. I moved away in 1989 when there wasn’t much in terms of freeways. 51 was relatively new and there was no 101. We lived near 40th street and Camelback and my brother and I had to drive downtown for high school. It was almost 40 minutes every morning. I don’t miss that.
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u/FormCheck655321 Sep 14 '26
(Fist bump) I lived near 36th and Camelback in 70s/80s, left in 1990, every time I go back to visit it feels less like what it used to be.
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u/rumblepony247 Sep 14 '26
Freeway buildout in Phoenix since 1990 has been extensive/much improved.
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u/wzlch47 Sep 14 '26
When I go back to visit family or friends, I am impressed with what has been built since living there. About 8 years ago, I was driving what was basically my route from my old home to downtown in the morning. There was a noticeable decrease in the traffic on the surface streets from what I dealt with every day driving to school.
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u/MendonAcres Sep 13 '26
It really is one of the worst urban areas we've managed to create.
Saying that. The mountains being right there do make it nice from a recreational perspective. BUT ONLY IN THE WINTER ❄️
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u/ArschSprengung Sep 13 '26
Those foothills look bare asl too.
Doubt there's much wildlife save for some coyotes, too little space.
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u/CPLCraft Sep 13 '26
You can actually find a lot of wildlife in those foothills. I live in Tucson, not Phoenix, but on the trails I’ll see things like roadrunners, other birds, lizards, ground squirrels, etc.
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u/NilocKhan Sep 13 '26
And the wildlife without a backbone is even more varied and remarkable. Arthropods are crazy in deserts, so many cool arachnids, insects, and myriapods
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u/ArschSprengung Sep 13 '26
Oh the Catalina foothills in Tucson are a dream to hike, instantly fell in love with (and almost died in) Pima Canyon with the little spring coming down and proper vegetation further up.
Saw a porcupine, owls, pulled inch-long cactus spikes out of my body, even got stalked by a cougar once 👀
Those Phoenix foothills do look bare in comparison though.
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u/Aye_Harambe Sep 14 '26
You do realize the Sonoran desert is one of the most green and wettest deserts on the planet right? Lot of wildlife and native plant species here
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u/chishiki Sep 13 '26
My sister was camping solo this week and heard something human like screaming. I’m assuming big cat but it was pretty crazy audio
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u/Puzzled-Raise7298 Sep 14 '26 edited Sep 14 '26
You will be surprised the kind of wildlife southern arizona and the sonoran desert has. It is not a coincidence that, that part of the southwest had a lot of ancient native tribes and they did farming even before modern farming was a thing. It is a concrete hell now, but the warm would have been much more bearable in the summers and winters perfect enough for farming even without modern water management and farming techniques. I have seen everything from coyotes, road runners, exotic butterflies, even mountain cats, rattle snakes, all sorts of small reptiles, jack rabbits, the famous bark scorpion, ginormous saguaros that are older than civilization, wildflowers, and unique desert vegetation you might not find anywhere else. The desert is a much more resilient ecosystem when compared to rainforests, swamps and pine forests against the face of human introduced environmental changes, and it continues to thrive despite the rapid urbanisation in the Phoenix and Tuscon metro areas.
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u/zemol42 Sep 14 '26
You’d be surprised how extensive the wildlife is in the mountains and in Old Town Scottsdale.
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u/housewithapool2 Sep 14 '26
Bobcats, mountain lions, javelinas, coatimundi, ringtails, burrowing owls, gila monsters, roadrunners and coyotes to name a few.
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u/MetroBS Sep 13 '26
Honestly more than any other city Phoenix does embrace the wildlife and nature present. There’s tons of it easily accessible from the city
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u/redthegingerbeast Sep 14 '26
There is more diversity in flora and fauna in southern Arizona than in the rest of the country. The only place in the world that is more diverse is the Amazon rainforest. Our culture is "deal with it or f off". We are still the wild wild West.
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u/GrassyField Sep 13 '26
Phoenix could be a lot better if:
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We embraced vertical density
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All construction required sidewalk shade, wrap-around porches, and solar integrated everywhere
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The trail systems built in some valley communities were required everywhere to increase walkability.
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All asphalt parking lots were required to have at least 80% shade coverage from a combination of vegetation and solar structures.
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No more stucco box construction that disregards all the desert living lessons learned prior to the invention of a/c.
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u/HamsterRight5500 Sep 14 '26
Agree with all of this.
I live in a generic HOA neighborhood as far from downtown as you can with a Phoenix address. I have mostly loved it while raising my kids, but as I’m getting older I’m finding myself desperate to live somewhere with walkability.
I’d love to live in a neighborhood in a smallish house with a smallish garden and to be able to walk to get a cup of coffee.
I am in no way a DIY’er. Decor is fine but remodeling scares the shit out of me. I’d like something ready to live in.Between not being able find such a spot and a low rate mortgage, I feel doomed and stuck in a too big house in suburban hell.
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u/Acasualfarter Sep 13 '26
Wouldn't you have build the shade because it can't grow? That's got to be a huge part of that problem?
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u/GrassyField Sep 13 '26
The right kind of shade trees do just fine here.
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u/-Never-Enough- Sep 14 '26
This was your opportunity to share the right kind of shade tree by name.
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u/hpshaft Sep 14 '26
Move northwards or east out of the core part of Phoenix. Lots of new businesses and stores are installing covered parking/solar. Housing is very much going vertical - nearly every new multi family development is 4 stories or more.
New construction in most subdivisions now offer pre installed solar or a home pre wired for it.
The city of Phoenix is very quickly installing drip irrigation and trees along the bigger arterial roads in north PHX and along the border with Peoria/arrowhead.
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
its too late now. the suburbs are everywhere and can't be torn down for a long time
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u/RaveIsKing Sep 14 '26
Agree with everything but point 1. The lack of vertical density allows for the views and landscapes. That’s the best part of living here
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u/thecanadiansniper1-2 Sep 13 '26
Insert king of the hill gif about Phoneix Arizona here.
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u/Huge_Virus_8148 Sep 15 '26
It's pretty ironic now given that she and Hank would later spend years in that "fake America" compound in Saudi Arabia.
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u/SR-45 Sep 13 '26
Endless sprawl in 115 degree heat.
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u/midwestia Sep 13 '26
The lack of trees really makes it stand out.
That said Florida has trees (?) and suburban Miami looks pretty similar
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u/Simple_Math1039 Sep 13 '26
Except for the whole water falling from the sky thing, which I always thought was kinda important
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u/Iommi1970 Sep 13 '26
Grew up there. Phoenix sucks. Best part about it is the mountains north and east about two hours, and one day drive to CA beaches.
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u/RChickenMan Sep 13 '26
It's always interesting to think about how people out west think of distance and travel time. I live in NYC, and while I can jump on an Amtrak train and be in DC in 3 hours, it would never occur to me to think of access to DC as a perk of living here.
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u/idiot206 Sep 13 '26
Maybe not, but plenty of people think of nearby access to NYC as being a perk.
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u/RChickenMan Sep 13 '26
For sure, and I appreciate proximity to places that are near (but not in) NYC. I'm more speaking to the fact that, best I can tell, the shortest drive from Phoenix to a California beach is 5 hours (without traffic). I could be wrong, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who lives five hours away (by car or train) from NYC to think of that proximity as a perk for where they live. Maybe they take advantage of the fact that it's a workable weekend trip from time to time, but not to the point that they'd consider it the "best part about" wherever it is they live. Philadelphia? Sure. That's 90 minutes on Amtrak, with trains leaving every 20-30 minutes or so. But not... five hours away, with no fast and frequent passenger rail connection.
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u/Tblick1 Sep 14 '26
If you can, persuade anyone else you may know there to leave as well.
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u/Iommi1970 Sep 14 '26
You know what’s insane to me? I’ve been in WA state now for 30 plus years. I have many friends who have sold up here, and moved down to Phoenix. My wife’s three best friends have all done so. Most people I know down there genuinely seem to love it. In fact, I can’t think of any that decided to leave Phoenix after moving, which I’m surprised by. The heat in summer is next level, and getting worse each year.
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u/The1930s Sep 14 '26
Been here all my life, couldnt see myself anywhere else, I love the big city there's so much to do compared to middle of the no where and you cant beat no snow
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u/Slurpeepatch Sep 14 '26
You have a narrow view of the world if you think Phoenix is a big city.
It’s largely populated, but it’s not even close to the metropolitan status of other cities in the country. Downtown is nothing more than a couple of sporting venues and a courthouse.
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u/stereolab0000 Sep 13 '26
It’s truly hell. Source: I live here.
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u/DeviousLaureano Sep 14 '26
Literally heaven. Source: I live here.
If it’s Hell why don’t you just leave?
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
most American comment ever. only you guys say things like "if you're poor, get a job"
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 Sep 13 '26
As a Frenchman living in the suburbs of Paris in crowded areas, small apartments with no AC or service (barely a parking). This makes me laugh.
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u/the2021 Sep 13 '26
This sub hates Phoenix - It's crazy. People move here by the hundreds every single day.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 Sep 14 '26
That's because they think it's cheap here. It's not, all the people moving in absolutely skyrocketed our cost of living. Without any income raises to back it up. We're about to be ground zero for mad max and people just keep moving the fuck in.
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u/RUStupidOrSarcastic Sep 14 '26
Yep even as the already 5th biggest city in the US, it has still remained among the fastest growing for years.
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u/minidog8 Sep 14 '26
This is my first introduction to this sub. Phoenix has crazy suburban sprawl but some places in Texas definitely have it beat.
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 Sep 14 '26
The DFW metro sprawl is very similar to Phoenix. Just trees, grass, and flat land
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 Sep 14 '26
Reddit is full of people that live online and have herd mentality. A lot of ppl probably have never even been here
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u/Jorkin-My-Penits Sep 14 '26
I was born and raised there.
It’s 99% people who spent their whole lives dealing with snow and promised themselves to never see snow again. Couple that with cheap housing and a decent amount of companies based there you just naturally get growth.
No one moves there for the city, it’s the other stuff. Phoenix sucks and I’d never return. I’d rather live somewhere expensive than spend my Saturdays going from strip mall to strip mall.
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u/DrMrRaisinBran Sep 15 '26
Americans move all sorts of random shitty places for absolutely illogical and inscrutable reasons. It's a completely baseless metric for objective quality
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
ok? that's because it's cheaper than where they were. america in general is a garbage country (doesn't even have vacation days federally or basic healthcare) and yet people move there everyday.
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u/Any-Permission-4530 Sep 13 '26
I was in downtown last night after returning from New York last week. It felt weird to walk in a downtown surrounded by what looks like an abandoned industrial complex 🤣.
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u/ExtraEmuForYou Sep 13 '26
I'm curious what this would have looked like if they went vertical. Like, let's say every building had to be 10 stories tall. Homes would still have same square footage in the end and all that stuff, it's just it'd be apartment buildings instead of track housing.
How much space would be saved, wilderness left intact.
How few roads would be needed.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 Sep 14 '26
I do think the biggest fear with that was the simple concept of "heat rises". I remember visiting friends with 3 story houses and man does it get HOT on that third story, even with AC blasting. I can't imagine living on the 10th story of a poorly kept apartment building. Landlords would need to be on top of shit and well, we know that's very much at the discretion of the landlord.
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
quit being a goofball bro. I'm on the 10th. its not hot here. maybe his building lacks proper roof insulation (mine is concrete and brick building)
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u/italianbmt1 Sep 13 '26
It truly is just the textbook definition of sprawl. I live in the valley and if you want to go anywhere even remotely interesting you have to drive thirty minutes at minimum on one of six freeways, each with their own unique flavor of insane driving. Want to feel like you're in Mad Max? Drive on the 17! Want to get stuck in endless lane expansioning projects and drive with your brakes for forty minutes to go six miles? Take the 101! Ever wondered, "gee, I wish I could drive down an interstate route with only a wire fence preventing me from going 85 in the wrong direction"? Take the 10!
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 Sep 14 '26
I live in Gilbert. Everything I want/need is within 10 minutes lol
Traffic conditions are the same in ever large metro though
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 Sep 14 '26
Want to race 18 wheelers that can't read basic signs? Take the 60 or 89!
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u/EasternBeautiful4705 Sep 15 '26
IDK living in Tempe I don't have to drive far to anything other than to visit friends who live on the opposite side of the valley.
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u/haveweirdhair Sep 14 '26
Bro I live in a historic home downtown and everything is close, even hiking.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 Sep 14 '26
So do you not count it if your butler drives you around, considering you can afford to live in a historic home downtown?
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u/DeviousLaureano Sep 14 '26
This is such a fucking lie. It’s about a mile a minute to get anywhere in Phoenix unless it’s literally rush hour which is still extremely reasonable. Compared to other major cities traffic is barely even noticable. Maybe you are just a terrified driver?
I just cameback from a week vacation in LA visiting family and that feels more like what you are describing. Phoenix is divine compared to Miami and LA.
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u/rotted-fetus-69 Sep 18 '26
its nonstop traffic on nearly every interstate and freeway. boohoo LA is trash, it's literally the definition of a failed city .. DEMAND BETTER AMERICA.
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u/CounterObjective2347 Sep 14 '26
Reddit loves to reee about Phoenix, but I love it here. Great food, great weather most of the year, great people, plenty of nature to explore, it’s affordable for a city this size…I mean 5 million people live here and it’s not because it sucks
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u/Midrover170 Sep 13 '26
I was just there, and find it so hard to believe it's as big as it is. Absolutely miserable climate. Blows my mind.
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u/OverstuffedPapa Sep 13 '26 edited Sep 15 '26
We are saving to move abroad and my friends invited my husband and I to live on their property in Tucson for free to save faster. We live in Washington State and had never been to Arizona, so we visited. I told my husband I’d rather stay in Washington for longer than live in that depressing hellhole.
Edited to add it’s ridiculous all the triggered people dogging me for agreeing that a photo of suburban hell on the suburban hell subreddit is, indeed, suburban hell. Holy shit yall. Get a fucking grip. I didn’t go to the Arizona subreddit and start bashing it. I hate suburban hell and especially when it’s flat with no color whatsoever. It’s as simple as that.
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u/Ok-Assistance4133 Sep 14 '26
God I hate this place with a burning passion. Source: born and raised here, left for good when I was 22.
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u/KlondikeBelugaWhale Sep 15 '26
Phoenix would be better if maga would stop moving here and ruining our schools and elections.
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u/sshamby Sep 13 '26
Went to Phoenix last year and couldn’t shake the strange feeling that the city lacked any unifying identity. “Soulless” isn’t quite the word, but nothing seemed to hold it all together. I felt like I was moving between developments without ever really arriving somewhere.