r/PoursTea • u/Timbucktwo1230 š« Mod āļø • 1d ago
FeministTeaš©š»āšš©šæāāļøš š„¾ Perspective
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u/Unlucky-Cup-5461 1d ago
The manosphere is a powerful drug.
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u/MordinOnMars 1d ago
I dunno, having your feelings hurt because someone didn't specify "not all men" is pretty much exactly the same as not being able to walk home safely after work
/s
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u/MSFpancake 1d ago
Hello. Iām a man. Iām 6ft. 240 lbs. Veteran. I used to wrestle. I donāt feel safe walking at night, i donāt accept drinks or food from strangers, i share my location with all of my family my partner and a few friends at all times no exception, i donāt feel safe in hotels, i check my back seats when i get in my car, i lock my windows even though i live on the second floor of my momās house, whom i have a great relationship with, i cross the street when anyone is walking toward me, i hate when people smile at me because attention is dangerous today and it means im doing something to draw it, it isnāt just you, it isnāt just women.
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u/csfox1990 1d ago
What's your stance on "defund the police"?
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u/koobstylz 1d ago
Police make women safer the same way priests protect children. They're supposed to, and often they do, but all too often they are the worst of the worst.
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u/csfox1990 1d ago
I'm not even gonna engage with such a ridiculous statement.
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u/koobstylz 1d ago
Police beat their wives and rape women and more all the time. The ones meant to protect them are extremely likely to be abusers.
Not engaging with the truth doesn't make it go away.
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u/favorable_vampire 1d ago
Why do you think cops are so much more likely to abuse their spouse and family than the average person? Maybe itāsā¦ a job that shitty people gravitate towards?
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u/LaMadreDelCantante 1d ago
It's a terrible slogan that actually doesn't describe the goal well at all.
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u/ZombyAnna 1d ago
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u/Mogura-De-Gifdu 1d ago
Yeah, just had that talk with my children (a boy and a girl) not so long ago, about how monsters wearing human skin can be just about anyone, can even have friends and family, and that's why following the basic safety rules (like telling us where they are going) is important.
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u/Devils_A66vocate 1d ago
Protecting yourself always and saying āall men areā are wayyyyy different. We got women offing their children and the response is āwe need better care for these womenā and when any potential indirect allegation of SA from a male appears their names are being smeared across the internet as they are assumed guilty.
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u/Chickabee25 1d ago
1 headline about a woman killing her children and all the misogynists brainlessly reply this to any sort of criticism towards men while there are countless stories not even getting national spotlight of men raping a woman OD'ing, getting raped in the bathroom while the perpetrators friends block her friends from stopping him while cheering him on and so many more, it's just normal so it's not such a shock apparently
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u/Leading_Experts 1d ago
This is just wrong. It should be: "Not all men, but always a man".
Otherwise, we should just end the human race. Reddit said all men are rapists and creeps, so there is no one to breed with anymore. Don't forget to abort your male children, they're inherently bad and nobody has ever had a good husband and father. Ever.
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u/frisco-frisky-dom 1d ago
Ok, I had a whole argument, but this one IS true! I concede!
BUT wait, if every woman starts fearing every man...
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u/IThinkItsAverage 1d ago
Whenever I hear ānot all menā I think of āall lives matterā in response to Black Lives Matter. I used to say all lives matter, back when I was 15 year old shit head immature child. Thankfully I matured and was able to understand that Black Lives Matter actually doesnāt threaten me as a white guy in anyway. Women calling out men doesnāt threaten me as a man because Iām not a rapist and know Iām not the one being discussed. But I guess not everyone has reached this level of maturity yet.
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u/JohnSober7 1d ago
My interpretation of what you're saying is not that all men and all lives matter aren't analaogues but they do paralell each other in some ways. But I want to get on my soap box a little and talk about how they're different.
(I know you know this). The 'logical' issue at the core of all lived matter was that BLM wasn't saying the races of other lives don't matter, it was saying we matter too.
The issueāat least as far as I can tellāwith not all men is that it is at best, a naiive ill-timed pointless interruption of the conversation. At worst, (and what seems to be moreso the case) it is a malicious derailment of the conversation. Yes, technically it is a generalisation, and if someone wants to be argument-pilled about it, it's not great. But if that person cares about what's being said, they know what takes precedent and they will listen to the spirit of the conversation rather than the minutiae of how it is being said.
In both cases, they are dog-whistles. But unlike all lives matter, not all men at least has a valid argument at its crux. But as with so many talking points in the mano-/incel- sphere or redpill community, they take a thing that is worthy of its own discussion and some amount of concern and make sure no one is going to give it time of day because they're used to derail more pressing conversations.
Personally, I say too many men, but I'm not gonna prescribe that because I know what people mean when they say "men do x".
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u/NFLGod3000 1d ago
Yeah, if you're 25 and under, it's understandable. But everyone has more negative experiences than positive and theres a lot of people who benefit from the negative ones.
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u/RShini 1d ago
Maybe see why the hell it happens.
It's not just about the men who commit crimes, but about their friends, their brothers, fathers, and society close ranks around the ones who treat women horribly, either justifying their behavior, dismissing women, or blaming the victim.
"That's how he always is, it's not personal."
"Boys will be boys"
"It's not fair to ruin a man's life for five minutes of fun,"
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u/HEELGPT 1d ago
Oddly ive only ever heard those phrases from women on social media. Never from men in real life. I've never met anyone, man or woman, that raped, assaulted or bragged about doing so. Only women on social media. Crazy coincidence
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u/BothTreacle7534 1d ago
then you are probably not seen as a safe to tell person
I am old enough to have started to help teens in the ā70
If you e.g. work as a bouncer in a youth centre, a dance club,ā¦ you hear people speak to each other, as they do not āseeā you.
If you sit in a bus, in a subway,ā¦ especially late-ish, in a fast food jointā¦ and sit farer away so they forget you, they speak enough to each other to know what some of them think. And how seldom it is that some of āthemā speak up against that.
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u/777isHARDCORE 1d ago
And the implication is that your personal experience is universal? What is the point of your comment exactly?
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u/shallpasss 1d ago
That is a woman thing, rarely a man thing, and you can't protect them from everything. Self-agency is important. Women are not told to protect, they literally don't care or are even more likely to defend the perp when it is a woman. Men even go to the extent of vigilantism, but when the perp is a woman, suddenly everyone is blind, or he should walk away. So it is hypocritical even to say this or demand it.
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u/Glum_Weekend_1230 1d ago
The issue with this website (and the internet at large) is people like you whose default reaction to seeing anyone vent or talk about their issues is āI simply MUST respondā. Let me blow your mind rn - you donāt actually have to respond. Nobody is forcing you. There, I fixed the issue for you, you no longer have to be kept up at night wondering what the āappropriate responseā is to women venting about men. You can just say to yourself internally āwell I donāt personally agree with thatā and then keep it pushing. Women do it all the fucking time - mainly because we have to, for safety.
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u/forthepridetv 1d ago
Yeah actually, thatās what I do say. For a while Iād also say āmen are trashā
Coincidentally women have never felt uncomfortable around me and I used to drive strangers for a living.
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u/Agreeable-Promise-98 1d ago
Women have never ātoldā you they feel uncomfortable around you
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u/hyphenssuck 1d ago
They also rally around and defend their "bros", when they say and do misogynistic stuff and get called out for it. Then they wonder why even their mothers are disappointed in them.
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u/Fried_0nion_Rings 1d ago edited 1d ago
What kills me about the Jane doe rape case is that there was a group chat with 50 guys. In that group chat they were offering āfree sexā. No one said anything no one did anything, besides I guess rape her.
And that university has a huge history of men doing awful things to women including sexual assault and only getting reprimanded by having to write a paperā¦
They felt safe hurting women so they did
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u/Tough_Preference1741 1d ago
The Gisele Pelicot really gets me for this reason. There were thousands that saw the listings and knew what was going on. None of them reported it.
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u/prtfteach 1d ago
I will say I have a few group chats that Iām in that Iāve muted. I could go a few days without seeing notifications or messages from the chat and if hundreds of messages were sent Iām not gonna go through them Iāll skip to the end. So itās possible that some in the chat didnāt see those messages.
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u/MichelangeloCzech 1d ago
In that group chat they were offering āfree sexā.
How does that translate to rape? Wouldn't anyone reading that just assume there was a woman at the party willing to fuck anyone?
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u/Fried_0nion_Rings 1d ago edited 1d ago
No. If she wanted to fuck anyone she could literally go up any man and ask.
If she wanted to fuck anyone she would say it.
And who the fuck is willing to fuck anyone no matter how they look/smell/act???
It makes zero sense
Think like a woman for a second
Edit: also how many of them? How long? Can she no? Is she drugged? <answer is yes to drugged and no to the ability to say no>
Free sex? What woman feels safe enough to advertise that??? She didnāt advertise it herself she didnāt ask them to do it she didnāt feel safe.
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u/refusetobeold83 1d ago
Iām a dude and I be complaining, but thatās facts ā¤ļø ladies. Be safe
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u/Dont_Use_Ducks 1d ago
As a man, I totally agree. I'm sometimes disgusted by my fellow men. And with the world politics embrace yourself for aweful times, since the biggest assholes are in charge at many places. Religion is growing again and women hate went up quite quickly.
Sorry that lots of us are such vile people.
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u/RepresentativeCow241 1d ago
"Women are more paranoid than men" doesn't buy you as much credit as you think.
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u/Glum_Weekend_1230 1d ago edited 1d ago
Woman expresses fear of men: haha you silly girlies are so paranoid
Woman gets attacked by a man: well why didnāt you protect yourself better? You shouldāve known better, I mean you mustāve sent signals that lead him on. Look at the length of that skirt you were wearing, anyone would think you were up for it. Why were you out at that hour, in that part of town? Why werenāt you carrying anything to defend yourself with? Why didnāt you choose better? That man had a criminal record, why the hell would you ever associate with him (but also donāt you dare judge a man on his past because you have no idea what he was going through and change is possible)? Iām making sure my daughter knows that men are only after one thing and she needs to have her wits about her at all times.
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u/SonofHondoBelmondo 1d ago
Don't forget: when you took those drugs at that party you consented to sex with as many men as may show up for the orgy.
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u/dgreenmachine 1d ago
Was that what happened or did she say no to different guys and different things like no anal? You can read more into the story if you want more than a surface level view of it.
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u/CycleCaverns 1d ago
You argument is tied in with what people on the internet say about specific situations. It's like when people get off of their keyboards, they act more human. The internet has some kind of hypnotic effect on people where they forsake their own morals until they get off of the screen.
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u/sonicandtales8 1d ago
Women exploit men to literal death. They're the primary enforcers of the provider/protector archetype which is more fatal than any other kind of gender bias due to the leverage they have and use.
Not consciously, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation beyond making it harder to solve.
More men died during COVID, more men die from dangerous jobs and workplace injuries, more men die of deaths of despair (often from not being able to fit the archetype well enough, or from stress built up from fitting the archetype).
Women are scared of men because of the on in a few thousand that's a vile pos, and that's apparently the fault of all men.
Men are considered assholes or creeps for not wanting a committed relationship that has a much higher chance to cause the bias I mentioned, causing many to die in the name of social credit.
Sounds like men should be more paranoid of women so we can all hate each other in peace like the mentally ill misanthropes everyone seems to aspire to be. I mean it's either that, or we ditch the gender war bullshit and actually solve problems, but that doesn't seem like something you want.
Also, we all know the few loud voices in the crowed (many of which happen to be women) are the minority. The vast majority of people have empathy for this kind of stuff. Since when do we allow a few jerks on the internet to dictate how we deal with trauma?
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u/Big___Rat 1d ago
Women have good reason to be concerned about their wellbeing due to consistent threats of violence, be it physical, emotional or psychological, in their day-to-day (or, more frequently, night-to-night), while men, the typical primary aggressors in the situations women have to be worried about, are generally safer and thus less concerned.
That's not to say men are never in any danger, but like, come on, dog.
Source: listening to other people
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u/Gullible-Historian10 1d ago edited 18h ago
Men are more likely to be victims of violence.
Edit: I'll just put it here instead of responding to all the morons who don't understand.
Women perpetrate violence against men all the time, they just involve the state to do it. When women give false accusations, they are literally initiating violence against a man.
here's some reading material: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/238891.pdf
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u/Grunergeist420 1d ago
The privilege in this kind of statement is that this woman will every day of her life pass by homeless men, men who are working outside in brutal weather conditions, men who havenāt seen a kind smile or heard a kind word in weeks or months, go home and imagine what the life of the most privileged man she knows is like, and make this kind of statement about āmen,ā and what theyāre worried about, because by men, she means men that she pays attention to, not men she has the privilege of ignoring.
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u/TakeOff_eh 1d ago
So YOU smile at them then. Men can smile at other men too you know. Like, it won't kill you or cause you to have a mental break down or anything like that. You can actually go out of your way and offer them kind words and good conversation too, especially since you seem so concerned about their loneliness. It's not every woman's responsibility to run around looking for lonely guys and make their day an extra special one = if it bothers you, you go and do it!
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u/Relevant-Variation97 1d ago
Women who have to fear for the safety daily are privileged. Got it. Way to strawman.
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u/Glum_Weekend_1230 1d ago
Meanwhile, yāall pass women every day who are thriving, giving back to their communities, generally trying to be the best and most positive humans they can be, and you have no idea that theyāve been victimised by men all their lives. But god forbid yāall get your heart broken by a cheerleader in middle school. Then itās actually totally fair and valid for you to hate women forever. Yāall have the privilege of ignoring that the vast majority of women on this planet have had terrible experiences with yāall, and are expected to never let it dull our shine or inform our opinions or interactions with yāall in any way, lest we be ābitter misandrist cat ladiesā.
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u/i_have_a_semicolon 1d ago
Don't reduce mens issues down to getting rejected or not getting dates. Men can be victimized and ignored also, just as people.
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u/TrainerAvailable5377 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can't tell if you're being serious or not
Men who haven't seen a kind smile...
Versus
...How unfair it is we don't smile at them
Either this is (decently) brilliant satire on your part...or there really is a disconnect.
The intended message of the original image is "women have to worry about being SA'd" men cry about not getting smiled at
Your response is some "sad boi" bs where you make up a scenario where a hypothetical women isn't smiling at a hypothetical man... because of privilege or something.
Are you a tone deaf "sad boi" or was this intentional satire?
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u/Grunergeist420 1d ago
Iām saying that itās ridiculous to boil down menās problems, in general, to āwomen donāt smile at them enough.ā
How about they worry that if they lose their home, nobody will take them in, because theyāre not a sympathetic figure that people want to care for?
Or they worry if they lose their job, theyāll lose their marriage, their family, the respect of their peers, in a way nobody would treat a woman who is unemployed?
Itās totally ridiculous to make light of the concerns of all men as this false equivalence of āwomen worry about their safety and men worry about women not liking them.ā
And you know where that comes from? Women who donāt think about men at all except for the ones theyāre attracted to or feel threatened by.
āThe most empathetic people in the world,ā to other women, that they know, that they arenāt competing with, that have problems they can identify with.
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u/Calm-Photo5758 1d ago
So you agree. ALL men are responsible for building patriarchy and misogyny?
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u/Coneder 1d ago
Oh for the love of. Yes, women suffer. I'm sorry that women suffer. I will do everything in my power to make sure women are safe and feel safe but to have the chaos in my life and all of my problems as if being a man is just a merry go round with no dangers or expectations is dismissed because the privileged go on a podcast to share their incel energy, IT GETS TIRING. It gets tiring having this thrown at me and then expecting me to have the same level of empathy I did the day before. Can I just be concerned for women without having me being a man put into some kind of mockery?
There's just a level of conversation that comes off as so condescending that I just can't tolerate anymore.
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u/i_have_a_semicolon 1d ago edited 1d ago
I feel like feminism is really just like "men, keep protecting women, that you're not in anyway beholden to, and expect nothing in return" and I think okay I sort of get it but I don't think their current approach is winning any man over
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u/Calm-Photo5758 1d ago
What do women owe you in return for not raping them? Who are you protecting women from? Other women?
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u/Substantial-Froyo722 1d ago
This is such an awful take.
Definitionally feminism is the idea that the genders are equal and should be treated as such, hope that helps your understanding.
But in this context we feminists donāt want men to āprotectā us. We want men to stop hurting us. Huge difference between those two. We want rape culture to end. We want gross ideas like āand expect nothing in return.ā to go away because thatās icky as hell dude, do better.
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u/Archaon0103 1d ago
Why would winning over EVERY man matter? Like the men who already subcribed to the incel mindset won't change their view no matter what.
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u/T_J_Rain 1d ago edited 1d ago
Scared, weak, phony, homerotic men with buzz cuts, black tee-shirts and bulging biceps that look good on Insta, masquerading as "alphas" are podcasting.
The rest of us "beta" "wimps" are in loving relationships with them [women], have raised strong independent women of our own, and have women as their closest friends, because we support them with our hearts, minds, in-depth conversations and deeds. But, of course, we're not "real" men - we don't have podcasts.
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u/That-Breakfast-4805 1d ago
Man i hate how the manosphere seems to have monopolized going to the gym in the public opinion as if it's not objectively a healthy hobby.
Same with bigots flocking to the bald look and now I look like one because of genetics :p
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u/varangian111 1d ago
It's been fascinating to watch the manosphere eat itself as it's biggest stars get put in prison, get exposed for heinous crimes, or generally get outed as living the exact opposite life as they portray on social media. I mean, they finally did it, Myron whoever it was finally said that having sex with women in gay, unironically. Which used to be the joke about the manosphere.
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u/Sufficient-Spite-465 1d ago
What a goofy characterization. The Andrew Tates and other podcast bros don't represent men in the same way Lindsay Clancy slaughtering her children doesn't represent all women.
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u/VFTM 1d ago
The last time I was part of this conversation on Reddit, a user accused me of ānot doing a good jobā of getting over my sexual assault.
Men are trash!
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u/Dragon_wryter 1d ago