r/PoliticalDebate • • Sep 04 '26

History Places where ppl say communism worked.

7 Upvotes

I often hear that communism worked in countries like Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and Bulgaria. The thing I made my own research and actually I don’t think it worked at all. Here is my point. So first of all, for Romania. Nicolas Ceaușescu’s brutal police state relied on the Securitate to crush political opposition and enforce total control over daily life. not to mention the Severe food, heating, and electricity rationing in the 1980s caused widespread poverty, directly leading to the 1989 revolution.(very violent btw)
Now Yugoslavia.Tito's economic system literally relied heavily on massive foreign debt, which triggered severe economic collapse and hyperinflation in the 1980s…Not to mention unemployment, structural problems, the 1970s oil shocks, and the political/federal crisis after Tito’s death. On top of that The failure of the state structure ultimately led to civil war in the 1990s.(also very violent )
Now Czechoslovakia, the regime kinda literally sucked too as it suppressed economic growth and freedom of expression. Not so good as you can imagine…
And now Bulgaria, was kind of just a satellite state entirely dependent on Soviet bailouts to keep its central economy running, they also did force assimilation programs against ethnic minorities in the late 1980s, driving hundreds of thousands out of the country.

r/PoliticalDebate • • 27d ago

History 2A is racist because it was designed to be against native Americans.

0 Upvotes

Thats what the "domestic" enemy was referring to. Now the "gang violence" rhetoric is the new way to frame it. But its always used as an excuse to harm minority groups. Look at the prison population there because of gin crimes. So many.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jun 15 '26

History The US Economy Has Been In A Death Spiral For 50 Years

24 Upvotes

In 1976, the national debt was about 33% of GDP; ~$620 billion debt against a ~$2 trillion economy, despite being in a period of stagflation following the Viet Nam War and the Oil Crisis. Unemployment was elevated, 7-8%, but key economic indicators such as individual savings and consumer confidence were strong. Manufacturing was a solid quarter of GDP, healthcare was about 5%. The trends were worrisome, but the overall economy was healthy. If your career fell apart or your company went bankrupt, the worst outcome was having to take a factory job, which would at least pay your mortgage and car payment.

In 2026, the national debt is over 125% of GDP; $39 trillion against a $32 trillion economy. Unemployment is listed at 4%, but that's after 50 years of changing the rules, for example we no longer count people who have been out of work for over a month; by the same definition, modern unemployment is as high or higher. Individual savings are essentially non-existent, and consumer confidence tanked after the 2008 "Financial Crisis" (more accurately, an extortion racket of unprecedented proportions) and has never recovered. Manufacturing is 11% of GDP, healthcare is almost 20%. The long-term trends are catastrophic, and overall economic health is dangerously poor. The consequences for career failure, now, are dire; a Wal-Mart wage will barely cover half-rent, much less a mortgage, and forget about a car payment.

To discover how this happened, we have to back up a bit; first, a brief history of the US economy:

Throughout the 19th century, the US economy was characterized by a 10-15 year "Boom and Bust" cycle. This was "free market capitalism" in action; individual actors with little government regulation acting in what they perceived as their own best interests. The issue was that the larger banks, who could spot the trends and predict the busts, structured loans to their own benefit, often bankrupting their clients on purpose. This led to the "Gilded Age" of extreme wealth disparity and ultimately the Federal Reserve, a consortium of private banks with government imprimatur to allow even further exploitation and control.

The first thing they did was notice that they could simply devalue currency to rob their clients at a steady rate, instead of all at once, and so this is when inflation first became an important issue. From 1789 until 1913, total inflation was about 7%; that is, $1 in 1913 was worth about $1.07 in 1789. Total inflation since 1913 is ~3,200%; that is, $1 today was worth $0.03 in 1913. 97% of the wealth created in the last 113 years was simply stolen by the banks.

The next thing they did was notice that they could just print money to pay for anything they wanted and not worry about the debt, because they were going to devalue it out of existence, which led inexorably to the Great Depression. Ironically, Herbert Hoover tried to fix this; he suggested many of the same programs and policies which FDR later enacted, but he didn't have the political clout. It took the next few years of desperation to finally allow the political will to make changes, and even then, FDR had to threaten the Supreme Court to make it happen.

This is known as the "Keynesian Era," from 1936 until the mid-1970s. Simply put, the idea was to smooth out the "Boom and Bust" cycle by stimulating the economy during recessions, then slowing government investment during periods of strong growth to level out and extend the growth. This was the longest period of stable economic growth in the history of the world, and the reason why, even after losing a war and suffering a major economic shock, we were still in pretty good shape.

The banks weren't happy about it, though; without a regular economic cycle, it was harder to extract resources by setting people up to fail, and the financial regulations of the New Deal, in particular, protected normal people from predatory loans. Starting with the Powell Memorandum and the end of Bretton Woods in 1971, inflation spiked and the slow erosion of the middle class had begun. Nixon abandoned full employment, replacing it with a policy of intentional "employment deficit," that is, making sure that there were not enough jobs for everyone in order to drive down wages. Ford allowed the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates during an uptick, explicitly against Keynesian policy. Carter embraced Free Trade, Privatization, Deregulation, and Austerity Economics.

And now we're into the meat of it: Reagan.

"Ronnie Ray-gun" cut taxes across the board, then raised them the next 7 years, but not on high incomes. He authorized endless military boondoggles, the most famous of which was the "Star Wars" program (which explicitly violated several solemn international treaties - or would have, if that money had gone anywhere but into defense company profits); opened up domestic markets to foreign competition without regulation to prevent market capture (i.e. why the US electronics industry died); and blatantly destroyed labor union power (e.g. the air traffic controllers union). Debt-to-GDP hit 50%, unemployment spiked at 11%, domestic manufacturing starts to drop.

Clinton managed to lower Debt-to-GDP, but it was all a bubble; he fully surrendered on trade, pushing NAFTA through Congress, with the resulting "Whoosh" sound as jobs moved South (c. Ross Perot). This is when healthcare costs started to spike due to agri-combine capture of government regulators, and Hillary Clinton intentionally "failed" to find any solution (pro-tip: If you want something to explode, put Hillary Clinton in charge of it). Worse, he pushed through the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the New Deal firewall between commercial and investment banking, which set up a ticking time bomb.

That bomb would have been bad enough, but W was stupid enough to let the dogs off the leash, and got us involved in the absurd "Global War on Terror" (which we started, but never mind...), tanking the economy and exploding the debt. When the subprime mortgage crisis finally hit, we simply did not have the reserves to properly deal with it, and we certainly did not have the political will to face it down.

In case no one ever explained it, here is what happened:

Starting in the 1970s under deregulation, investment banks started playing with derivatives - essentially security options that let you lock down long-term capital by promising high returns but punishing early withdrawal; as regulation eased, they started fluffing the numbers, and the prime culprit was the mortgage market, as it is typically the most secure investment (people pay their mortgage first). Eventually, the crooks took over and just started wildly inflating property values in order to sell variable-rate loans with the promise to refinance, because housing prices were going up faster than the interest rate on the loan.

This couldn't last forever, though, and so when they saw the end in sight, they did two things: First, they took off all the controls and started giving loans to anyone (e.g. "NINJa" loans, for "No Income No Job"), and second, they blindsided the regulators by suborning the ratings agencies, so that by the time the government noticed and had to get involved, the problem was so big that the only solution was a massive bailout... of the banks. The homeowners who had been sold this trap were left out in the cold, and worse, the inflation that came from printing the money to pay for it drove their incomes down.

Obama became the corporate bailout king; Bank of America, AIG, Citigroup, GM, Chrysler, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs... and all of it on the nation's credit card. The PPACA did much the same for the healthcare industry; more money, guaranteed customers, no cost controls, it was an invitation to drive up profits while cutting quality of care, which is exactly what we have seen over the last 15 years. It was such a disaster that Trump seemed like a reasonable alternative, and in all fairness, his economic policy in his first terms was actually starting to produce results until Covid, and I am still at a loss as to how people managed to blame any of that on him.

Covid might have been the final nail in the coffin, and we've just been waiting for the oxygen to run out. Biden just put it all on the credit card, again, and to all appearances slept through most of his term in office. Now we have Trump, again, but his time he is off the chain and attacking the neighbors. The price of oil has skyrocketed, fertilizer supplies were disrupted in the middle of planting season, and our military has been embarrassed, leading Trump to ask for record increases in defense spending, while the Pentagon notes that there is nothing to spend it on; we simply do not have the domestic industry to produce what Trump wants to buy, and the rest of the world is happy to let us twist in the wind.

In 50 years, our GDP went from $2 trillion to $32 trillion; are we 16 times as productive? Do we have 16 times as much stuff? Are we 16 times richer? No, that is the result of inflation, which both makes us an attractive market to sell goods for more money than in foreign countries, but also makes domestic labor more expensive so that manufacturing and industry are less economical. This is great for "consumers" but terrible for "workers," who are mostly the same people, and the net effect has been negative for 50 years.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jan 16 '24

History Has Conservatism ever dialed back Progressivism for the better?

31 Upvotes

As I see it, there is a pretty simple dynamic at play between Conservatives and Progressives. Progressives want to bring about what they see as fairness and modernity (the right side of history) and conservatives want to be cautious and believe that Progressives generally don't know whats best for everyone. This dynamic goes beyond just government policy, but into culture as well.

I think this dynamic is mostly accepted by Conservatives but mostly rejected by Progressives. I would wager that most Progressives simply see a history of greed that Progressive policies have overcome. I can sympathize with why that is the case, but there seem to be examples that go contrary to this.

[Here's a Wikipedia article on the history of Progressivism in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States)

So what bad Progressive policies have arisen? I don't know how solid this article is, but Eugenics is one I've heard as a top example... Prohibition is on here... "Purifying the electorate".

Are there more examples, and did Conservatives have any influence in overcoming these policies? I'm not interested in hearing arguments about stuff that is still largely supported by Progressives (I'd rather not even discuss Communism). I'm just curious about whether we can agree across the political spectrum that Progressivism has ever overshot its mark.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jun 18 '24

History What is the true intent on the 2nd Amendment?

0 Upvotes

What is the true intent on the 2nd Amendment? We know its part of the Bill of Rights which means the government has no authority to meddle, regulate or in any otherwise interfere.

We also know that rights are inalienable to the individual only. We know this EMPIRICALLY 2 ways.

1) Place any individual on a deserted island with no community or society of government and he can scientifically demonstrate all of their rights ( human action for which their is no intentional victim created ) without said existence of a society of government

2) No science study has showed the evidence of physical transfer of an individuals rights to any sort of collective, meaning there is no such thing as collective/group rights ( gay rights, straight rights, women's rights, men's rights, etc ... )

So when it comes to the 2nd amendment we can take the evidence presented above with what the Founders stated when this amendment was crafted as well as what words meant back in that time and the experience the Founders had faced

So, regulated means trained, not managed or fall under the power of the State

Source : https://web.archive.org/web/20230126230437/https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00964)) :

The Founders did not want the government to have a standing army ( Source : Article One, Section 8). They just had to fight a government run army to get their freedom and therefore understood the evils of a government having a standing army, so they are not going to undo their primary intent by giving the state control of the militia.

The Constitution is a contract with each word having a precise meaning ( like the word regulated in the 2nd Amendment which means trained, not managed by government) that does not change over time ... this is backed by Article 5 which only allows the Congress or State Governments ( not the judiciary ) through the prescribed process

And since the 2nd amendment has not been modified since its ratification in 1787, the words in that Amendment hold the meaning on 1787.

regulated - well trained

Source : [ https://web.archive.org/web/20230126230437/https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00964)) : ]

Source : [ To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia,- James Madison ( author of the Constitution )

Source : I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
--- George Washington

militia - the whole body of men declared by law amenable to military service, without enlistment, whether armed and drilled or not" [ Source : https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/militia ]

arms = all martial weapons ( not government-approved ones ) [ Source : Just google, definition arms and you get

    Noun -  Weapons and ammunition; armaments: "they were subjugated by force of arms".

So the definition of the words in the 2nd Amendment is quite clear ..

A well trained body of men ( citizens not government ) being necessary to the security of a free State ( nation not government ), the right of the people [ individual citizens ] to keep and bear/have on their person ( concealed or not ) weapons, armor, and ammunition shall not be infringed ( shall be free from any government involvement. meddling, control, etc .... dealing with weapons, armor and ammunition )

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jul 30 '26

History Treason Is A Political Tool Used to Silence Dissenting Voices

2 Upvotes

A country is a political concept, it is defined by those in power. They decide the borders, the privileges they give people, the rules the people must obey and the penalties for disobedience. You are explicitly burdened with a lifetime duty to that country whether you like it or not and if you refuse to honor that duty you are considered a traitor to your country and charged with treason.

But, if we're honest, what does "betraying your country" really mean? How do you define it? Who decides? As with everything political, it's abstract and up for debate and subjective prosecution making it a useful political tool. If the politicians decide to start a war you are bound to go kill and be killed for your country or else you're a traitor. What a great tool to keep young men dying for political power. How does anyone not see the insanity in that?

This comes up because I just read that a Russian journalist has been charged with treason and sentenced to 12 years in a penal colony for nothing more than writing and publishing things that those in power didn't like about Russia's war in Ukraine. She pleaded guilty rather than risk a lifetime in prison at the hands of a Russian judge. Voila`, dissenting journalist censored for at least the next 12 years and a strong message sent to others under the illusion that they can have a dissenting political opinion.

All governments engage in censorship for the health of the state. Similar to John Adams signing the "Alien and Sedition Acts" into law in 1797 making it a federal crime to criticize the government. Similar to the US rounding up Japanese-Americans during WW2 and interning them in camps and selling their homes and assets for nothing more than being of Japanese descent. It was for "National Security" of course. The censors have never been on the right side of history.

One of my favorite quotes is from Oscar Wilde: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" because any egregious act of inhumanity can be justify if it's in the name of national security, the motherland, the homeland.

r/PoliticalDebate • • May 06 '24

History Why didn't Stalin reimplement democracy after abolishing the classes?

7 Upvotes

I have a general idea of why Stalin didn't begin to wither away the state as he should have, but I'd like to hear some opinions.

In the Soviet Constitution of 1936, the USSR claimed to have successfully abolished the classes:

As for the country's trade, the merchants and profiteers have been banished entirely from this sphere. All trade is now in the hands of the state, the cooperative societies, and the collective farms.

A new, Soviet trade - trade without profiteers, trade without capitalists - has arisen and developed.

Thus the complete victory of the Socialist system in all spheres of the national economy is now a fact.

And what does this mean?

It means that the exploitation of man by man has been abolished, eliminated, while the Socialist ownership of the implements and means of production has been established as the unshakable foundation of our Soviet society. (Prolonged applause.)

​

Unquestionably, this can and must be said. And what does this mean? This means that the proletariat of the U.S.S.R. has been transformed into an entirely new class, into the working class of the U.S.S.R., which has abolished the capitalist economic system, which has established the Socialist ownership of the instruments and means of production and is directing Soviet society along the road to Communism.

Now with the classes abolished, the state could begin it's process of withering away. They could and per Marxist theory they should have reimplemented pure democracy (which means any party can run) so that the proletariat (which would just be everyone now, they too withered away) could exercise their new, for the first time in history, political and economic freedom without oppression from the previous bourgeoisie class.

Instead, Stalin preserved the temporary vanguard solidifying a state dictatorship of the ruling party and only allowed the proletariat to vote for members of that party. This is unnecessary, anti-Marxist, and completely ass backwards to what Marx had advocated for.

Why would Stalin keep the power of the government to himself and his party when the threat of the class oppression no longer exists? He never allowed other factions of communists (left communists, orthodox marxists, trotskyists, etc) or any other party to run in elections.

Those parties are representative of the interests of the former proletariat and by preserving his totalitarian state without the threat of the classes he effectively silenced the voice of the workers/people in the country who the Bolsheviks claimed to had revolutionized for in the first place and instead enforced an actual (form of government) dictatorship over them. By doing this he abandons Marx's work.

Some useful works on the topic for context:

Automod: The State and Revolution

Automod: The Revolution Betrayed

Automod: The Abolition of the State

Automod: Marxism and Bolshevism: Democracy and Dictatorship

r/PoliticalDebate • • 2d ago

History Southern Strategy, Reconstruction

0 Upvotes

THANK YOU for insights into voting blocks and Southern Strategy. The “why” question I tried to pose involved major civil rights legislation, I used the 14A and The Voting Rights Act; why a shelf life of only 25 years or so? Bad math by me? Coincidence? Bad execution? I can’t accept they were bad ideas, does a voting majority believe they were?

I usually search for history to justify my observations. So I violate a couple of rules of academic integrity at the very start. My observation here is that the chronology from enactment of the 14th Amendment 1868, to the Supreme Court decision in the Reconstruction cases 1883 to Plessy 1896 is mostly matched by the time span of the Southern Strategy/Voting Rights Act 1965, to Nixon applying the idea on a large scale 1972, to a Republican Southern majority in 1994. It’s not as much an observation only of arithmetic as it is a heads up for those left of center they have a head count problem and large scale center left victories have a lifespan of about 25 years.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Feb 01 '24

History Do you think the October revolution was a good thing and if so how would you justify it?

2 Upvotes

I realize its a bit of a historical question but im going to be bold and go with it anyways since there is so much politics and ideology tied to the event. Anyhow. Im curious to know how people view the october revolution (the one where the Bolsheviks overthrew the provisional government and created the RSFRS which would later become the USSR)?

Comment what you voted and your reason for chosig the option you chose.

143 votes, Feb 05 '24
57 I see it as overall good
59 I see it as overall bad
18 I dont know enough to take a position
6 I dont have any particular position
3 Other (elaborate in comments)

r/PoliticalDebate • • Aug 22 '26

History The US Civil War was contrived to create exactly the social divide we see today

0 Upvotes

NOTE

This is not an apology for the leaders of the Confederacy or the politicians who seceded from the union based on myths about racial superiority. They were stupid and evil. Fuck those guys.

This is an apology for the 53% of African-Americans who live in the former Confederate states, and as a result suffer from economic discrimination resulting in higher infant mortality, increased crime, lower life expectancy, fewer educational opportunities, etc.

The result of the Civil War was 160 years of economic punishment which fell disproportionately on the very people the war was morally justified by claiming to benefit.

BACKGROUND

Perhaps the worst outcome of the early US period was the two-party system; by forcing groups into alliances with strange bedfellows, it conflated political positions which were on entirely different spectra.

For example, the Southern Agrarians held an ideal of small farmers with access to regulated markets under largely local control; the central government was supposed to manage interstate commerce and national defense, and not much more. Their natural allies, however, were large plantation owners, who liked local control of markets because they were wealthy and could manipulate them, and disliked the notion of powerful central government which could (and did) exceed its authority in the pursuit of social progress (these were, naturally, social conservatives, while the Southern Agrarians were less so).

On the other side, you had Northern Industrial interests who saw potential for rapid growth, if they could establish a powerful central government to allow exploitation of farmers and plantations, lowering their material costs and giving them a market advantage in foreign trade... which also required a standing military to "convince" reluctant trade partners to cooperate. Their "allies" were the burgeoning white middle class and Western (Ohio, at the time) farmers, who were propagandized against cheap black labor being used to compete with them (by claiming that lower prices for Southern goods was because of slavery and not unfair tariffs), ultimately coalescing into the Free Soil movement, which wanted to ship all black people, free or slave, back to Africa.

Combined with the nature of the bicameral legislature - the House being dominated by the more populous North, especially as slaves contributed less to the population count - this turned into a balance of power issue in the Senate, with new states only being added in pairs; one free, one slave. This was never a stable situation, though, and by the 1840s, when it became clear that the Southwest was not good agricultural land and so slavery simply could not effectively expand there, along with the international community turning against the practice, everyone realized that slavery would not last much longer.

IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!

This is where the lack of economic regulation came back to bite us, hard.

Every other nation on Earth freed slaves by compensating the owners for their value, i.e. "buying" their freedom; this was not an ideological position, but a practical one. Plantation owners used slaves as collateral for loans, and if they were freed without compensation, the market collapsed and the economy ground to a halt.

Worse, because they saw this coming, the banks set up a securities market for slaves, which naturally inflated their value. In 1860, the total slave market cap was $17 Trillion in today's money.

In short, the country couldn't pay that; that was greater than the total value of literally everything else in the country: Land, mines, buildings, roads, all the gold in every vault, purse, or pocket, everything.

Now, the South had been stubborn about this for decades, but there was one last-ditch attempt in the debate about the resolution of the election of 1860 (which no one won, outright, and so it went to the House): Jefferson Davis proposed freezing expansion of slavery and a path to abolition (which might have taken less than 5 years) by transferring debt slowly to the government and paying it off with bonds, in exchange for making John C. Breckenridge president (as the combined Democratic vote well exceeded Lincoln's), but the abolitionists rejected the idea of paying for slaves and the Deep South insisted on a pro-slavery platform.

CHOICES

The South was faced with a choice: Accept uncompensated abolition of slavery and allow Northern banks to foreclose on literally everything in the South - every plantation, every farm, every mine, every building - or secede from the union.

Note that, from the very beginning, while deprecated, even the staunchest proponents of central authority had accepted that there was no legal bar to secession. During the Consititutional Convention, a proposal was made to insert a provision allowing the US government to militarily intervene to prevent secession; Madison replied:

 "A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force agst. a State, would look more like a declaration of war, than an execution of a punishment, and would probably be considered by the party attacked that its allegiance to the Federal Union was dissolved."

The proposed provision was unanimously rejected, and never mentioned again, although during discussion of the New Jersey Plan, he said:

 "A breach of any one article, by any one party, leaves any other party at liberty to consider the whole convention as dissolved"

Remember that, prior to the 14th Amendment, the US government was strictly limited to the powers expressly granted in the Constitution, and nowhere does it say that it can forcibly prevent a state from seceding, while the Xth Amendment explicitly confers any power not granted to the federal government to the states or the people. That is to say, secession is a power, and if the federal government does not have it, either the states or the people themselves must.

Otherwise, the notions of "freedom" and "self-determination" are lies.

CONSEQUENCES

First, naturally, the slaves were freed.

Ha! No, they almost all wound up right back on the same plantations doing the same things for the same people, often under even worse conditions (slaves were at least well-fed; they were valuable property). Those that tried to leave were arrested on contrived charges and sentenced to labor... right back on the plantation. The North which had claimed such concern for their welfare instituted crushing economic punishments which disproportionately fell on those very "freed" slaves.

Now, their descendants' prospects were improved; 50 years later, there started to be neighborhoods of successful black families... which were usually burned down by racist white pricks who had been told to blame black people for their problems instead of the system which had screwed them over (notably more often in the North than the South!). Today, certainly, things have improved... but not as much as they should have.

Second, the fundamental nature of the relationship between government and the people was inverted.

The original Constitution granted the federal government a strictly limited set of powers, outside of which, states and people could do as they wished. If you wanted to live in a state with an official religion, you could do that; or you could move to a state which was officially secular. Some states effectively banned private ownership of firearms, while other enshrined that right (at least to white people) in their own Constitutions.

The 14th Amendment inverted that; it said that, no, the Constitution grants certain, limited rights, i.e. free speech, religion, etc, and if it is not specifically listed, then there is no protection from the federal government, whose powers are now virtually unlimited. "Free speech," for example, can and has been punished by the government; some religions are privileged while others are denigrated, by law; the experience of a white man walking down the street with a gun on his hip is radically different from that of a black man walking down the street with a gun on his hip.

RESULTS

All of that being said, the legal protections for black people have never been stronger; abuses are more often addressed than ignored; and while there is still plenty to object to, those objections are steadily making progress. Keep it up!

The other result is not so great:

Our government is entirely under the control of a small, wealthy elite whose fundamental interests and values diverge from those of the vast majority of the population, and the intended checks and balances have been effectively dismantled by a collaborative, Establishment group of politicians in both parties who have stacked the courts with fascists and foregone Congress' traditional role as the check on the Executive branch, precisely because it allows unpopular policies to be enacted while disclaiming responsibility.

As Madison noted, the intended check on that happening was supposed to be the threat of individual states declaring the Compact to be nullified and simply not participating in the federal system, anymore; it was the Hamiltonians who won control of the government, though, and they never intended to abide by anything they negotiated.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jun 29 '26

History I debated someone over slavery, Africa and colonialism. Which of these historical claims are actually correct?

4 Upvotes

I recently had a very long debate with someone who made a number of historical claims. I'm genuinely interested in whether my rebuttals are accurate i want to educate myself. These were his main claims and my responses:

1. "Anthony Johnson legalized slavery in North America."

My response was that slavery already existed before Johnson:

  • San Miguel de Gualdape (1526)
  • St. Augustine (1565)
  • John Punch (1640) receiving lifetime servitude
  • Connecticut's Code (1650) recognizing slavery before the Casor decision

My understanding is that Johnson v. Casor (1655) was an important legal precedent in Virginia recognizing lifetime servitude as property, but it did not create slavery in North America nor make Johnson the first slave owner.

Is that accurate?

2. "Britain abolished slavery alone."

He repeatedly argued Britain was completely alone in ending slavery.

I agreed Britain led the naval suppression of the Atlantic slave trade.

However, my understanding is that:

  • Britain acted through treaties with many states.
  • Other countries eventually cooperated.
  • Britain was the dominant power, but not literally the only participant.

3. "Every African country reinstated slavery after Europeans left."

This seemed obviously wrong.

Modern slavery exists almost everywhere.

Countries including:

  • UK
  • US
  • Germany
  • France
  • Poland
  • Argentina

all have documented forced labour, trafficking and exploitation.

To me that isn't the same as saying they "reinstated slavery."

4. "Modern slavery in the West is committed almost exclusively by migrants."

This one surprised me.

I looked at:

  • UK Home Office
  • Europol
  • UNODC
  • National Crime Agency

I couldn't find evidence for that statement.

Domestic trafficking exists.

County Lines is overwhelmingly British gangs exploiting British children.

Operation Fort involved Polish traffickers.

Trafficking generally involves domestic offenders, foreign offenders and organised crime networks.

Has anyone seen evidence supporting the "almost exclusively migrants" claim?

5. Botswana, Rwanda and Cape Verde

He argued these countries don't count as African success stories because:

  • trafficking exists
  • China invests there
  • foreign aid exists

My response was:

Foreign investment doesn't automatically invalidate development.

Otherwise we'd have to dismiss:

  • post-war Germany
  • Japan
  • South Korea
  • Ireland
  • Poland

which also received enormous foreign investment or aid.

Economists don't normally define development that way.

6. "Black people have contributed nothing unique to the West."

One of his later claims was that people from African countries have contributed nothing unique or positive to Western societies and are a net loss.

That struck me as historically and economically questionable.

For example:

  • African immigrants in the United States have some of the highest educational attainment among immigrant groups.
  • Nigerian Americans and Ghanaian Americans are heavily represented in medicine, academia and entrepreneurship.
  • The NHS in the UK employs tens of thousands of doctors and nurses originally from African countries.
  • African scientists, physicians, academics and entrepreneurs have made substantial contributions in both Europe and North America.

Obviously this doesn't mean every immigrant group performs identically, but it seems incorrect to say Africans have contributed nothing.

7. "ALL black governments are corrupt."

He also argued:

  • ALL black governments are corrupt.
  • ALL black-run states fail.
  • African people all behave the same wherever they go.

That struck me as impossible to defend historically because absolute statements only require one counterexample.

For example:

African immigrants in the United States generally perform very well educationally and economically, whereas outcomes differ in parts of Europe.

That alone suggests culture, immigration policy, selection effects and institutions matter, rather than race alone.

8. Benefit and crime statistics

He claimed:

  • Black people in Britain receive more than twice in benefits than they pay in taxes.
  • Black people commit around 50% of all violent crime and theft in the UK.

I asked for sources.

I couldn't find any official ONS or Home Office publication supporting either claim.

In fact, the ONS explicitly states it does not publish taxes paid versus benefits received by ethnicity.

My question:

I'm not looking for an ideological argument.

If I've made historical mistakes, I'd really like to know.

Likewise, if any of the claims above are demonstrably false (or true), I'd appreciate sources.

I'd especially appreciate input from historians, legal historians, economists, or anyone familiar with early colonial North American law, abolition, African history or modern trafficking statistics thank you in advance.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jul 31 '26

History Formal Debate

0 Upvotes

Hello everyone! A partner and I have been planning on setting up a formal debate on the Holy Roman Empire for YouTube live, the premise is "The Holy Roman Empire, from 800 to 1806, was Holy, Roman, and an Empire".

We had our moderator and myself on the affirmative, but our opposition had to drop out. We were hoping to find someone who is interested in opposing the motion.

The debate is currently schedule for August 20th, and we'd be doing a live recording with our faces on YouTube. If you have experience debating, know the subject well enough, and are interested, please DM me. We are willing to revise and edit the premise if the opposition requests it, as we are on a time crunch.

God bless

https://www.instagram.com/ian_hoover_777?igsh=cjM3djBja3NzNmth

r/PoliticalDebate • • Jan 14 '24

History Marxists, why all the Trotskyists hate?

8 Upvotes

Confused as to why Trotskyists (Link to Trotskyism for those curious, and their sub r/Trotskyism) get so much hate from their fellow comrades. Is it just due to Stalin loyalty and the conflict between him and Leon Trotsky?

I don't understand how one can be both pro Lenin and anti Trotsky due to their friendship and Lenin's anti Stalin telegrams just before his death. As a unbiased third party viewer, it seems that Stalin is the odd man out.

​

Some context:

​

Trotsky played a leading role with Lenin in the October Revolution.

Assessing Trotsky, Lenin wrote:

"Trotsky long ago said that unification is impossible. Trotsky understood this and from that time on, there has been no better Bolshevik."

There were 2 major name that could've served as Lenin's successor when he became unable to fill his role as general secretary, Stalin and Trotsky.

Just before Lenin died he made some controversial works. On the same day (March 5, 1923) he sent 2 telegrams, one to Stalin and one to Trotsky.

Lenin: TO COMRADE STALIN:

Top secret Personal

Copy to Comrades Kamenev and Zinoviev

Dear Comrade Stalin:

You have been so rude as to summon my wife to the telephone and use bad language. Although she had told you that she was prepared to forget this, the fact nevertheless became known through her to Zinoviev and Kamenev. I have no intention of forgetting so easily what has been done against me, and it goes without saying that what has been done against my wife I consider having been done against me as well. I ask you, therefore, to think it over whether you are prepared to withdraw what you have said and to make your apologies, or whether you prefer that relations between us should be broken off.[1]

Respectfully yours, Lenin

March 5, 1923

And Lenin: TO L. D. TROTSKY:

Top secret Personal

Dear Comrade Trotsky:

It is my earnest request that you should undertake the defence of the Georgian case in the Party C.C. This case is now under “persecution” by Stalin and Dzerzhinsky, and I cannot rely on their impartiality. Quite to the contrary. I would feel at ease if you agreed to undertake its defence. If you should refuse to do so for any reason, return the whole case to me. I shall consider it a sign that you do not accept.[3]

With best comradely greetings Lenin[1]

​

Just before he passed Lenin made it clear he did not support Stalin in a leadership role and was in support of Trotsky in that role instead. From Lenin's Testament:

Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Comrade Trotsky, on the other hand, as his struggle against the C.C. on the question of the People's Commissariat of Communications has already proved, is distinguished not only by outstanding ability. He is personally perhaps the most capable man in the present C.C., but he has displayed excessive self-assurance and shown excessive preoccupation with the purely administrative side of the work. These two qualities of the two outstanding leaders of the present C.C. can inadvertently lead to a split, and if our Party does not take steps to avert this, the split may come unexpectedly.

Stalin is too coarse and this defect, although quite tolerable in our midst and in dealing among us Communists, becomes intolerable in a Secretary-General. That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin in having only one advantage, namely, that of being more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more considerate to the comrades, less capricious, etc. This circumstance may appear to be a negligible detail. But I think that from the standpoint of safeguards against a split and from the standpoint of what I wrote above about the relationship between Stalin and Trotsky it is not a [minor] detail, but it is a detail which can assume decisive importance.

The document was read at a hearing, but otherwise suppressed. Trotsky then wrote:

Leon Trotsky: On The Suppression Of Lenin's Testament

Which is a thick article covering a broad range of information from:

On Lenin’s Testament

“The Mutual Relations of Stalin and Trotsky”

Lenin’s Attitude Toward Stalin

Sverdlov and Stalin as Types of Organizers

The Disagreements Between Lenin and Stalin

The Legend of “Trotskyism”

At Lenin's funeral Stalin made, for lack of a better term, fucked up measures to prevent Trotsky from being there.

From the Death and State Funeral of Vladimir Lenin:

There assembled crowds listened to a series of speeches delivered by Mikhail Kalinin, Grigory Zinoviev, and Joseph Stalin, but notably not Leon Trotsky, who had been convalescing in the Caucasus.[4] Trotsky would later claim that he had been given the wrong date for the funeral.[5] Stalin's secretary, Boris Bazhanov would later corroborate this account as he stated "Stalin was true to himself: he sent a telegram to Trotsky, who was in the Caucasus undergoing medical treatment, giving a false date for Lenin's funeral".[6]

​

Some further context that may also suggest that Lenin was a supporter of Trotskyism's Permanent Revolution is:

Extraordinary Seventh Congress of the R.C.P.(B.)

Where Lenin goes on to say:

“At all events, under all conceivable circumstances, if the German Revolution does not come, we are doomed.”

From Lenin and Internationalism (Marxist.org)

A few weeks later: “Our backwardness has put us in the front-line, and we shall perish unless we are capable of holding out until we shall receive powerful support from workers who have risen in revolt in other countries.”

The following month, in April, he stated, “But we shall achieve victory only together with all the workers of other countries, of the whole world...”

In May, Lenin states again, “To wait until the working classes carry out a revolution on an international scale means that everyone will remain suspended in mid-air... It may begin with brilliant success in one country and then go through agonising periods, since final victory is only possible on a world scale, and only by the joint efforts of the workers of all countries.”

“The International World Revolution is near”, wrote Lenin, “although revolutions are never made to order. The imperialists will set fire to the whole world and will start a conflagration in which they themselves will perish if they dare to quell the Revolution.”

​

Now anyone who is familiar will Lenin will tell you that it's a fair statement to say that he was a "By any means necessary" type of guy.

When looking at his quotes from above, it seems clear that Lenin would've supported Trotsky's plan for achieving Communism rather than Stalin's natural and historically unsuccessful means of achieving it by Socialism In One Country while waiting for everyone else to revolutionize.

​

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. My question to my comrades is; Are you sure you haven't been following the wrong person?

r/PoliticalDebate • • Feb 04 '24

History Was Stalin faithful to Lenin?

7 Upvotes

Im interested in seeing what the people of this subreddit think about the question of wheather Stalin managed the Soviet Union faithfully with regards to how Lenin envisioned the Soviet Union? Comment your reason for voting the way you vote.

128 votes, Feb 06 '24
21 Stalin was overall faitful to Lenin, in my opinion
66 Stalin was overall unfaitful to Lenin, in my opinion
27 I dont know enough to take a position
9 I dont have any particular position
5 Other (elaborate in comments)

r/PoliticalDebate • • Nov 27 '24

History The West are just different strands of liberals arguing with each other.

0 Upvotes

It's simple; American politics are simply liberals arguing with each other. It is not worth the time of anyone who wants real political change.

Democrats

  • Champions Progressivism (Excessive Individualism)
  • Champions Liberal Democracy (Except when the wrong person won)
  • Champions Neoliberalism
  • Believes that they are carrying forward the original values America was founded on
  • Identity politics
  • Appeal to progress
  • Maintains Status Quo
  • Factions that advocate for a nanny government (Same goals, different appeals)

Republicans

  • Champions Extreme Individualism But With Appeal to Tradition
  • Champions Liberal Democracy (Except when the wrong person won)
  • Champions Neoliberalism and Libertarianism
  • Believes that they are carrying forward the original values America was founded on
  • Identity politics
  • Appeal to tradition
  • Maintains Status Quo (although sometimes reactionary)
  • Factions that advocate for a nanny government (Same goals, different appeals)

Yes this includes the new Trump GOP too.

There is no political diversity except for in the third parties. There is no hope in any of the 2 parties. They are both liberals.

Classical Liberalism + Conservative Liberalism = GOP

Enlightenment Thought + Neoliberalism + Nanny Liberalism = Dems

BTW, Bernie is a Social Democrat and not a Democratic Socialist, so he still agrees with Capitalist system.

r/PoliticalDebate • • Nov 14 '24

History A Video Timeline of US Political Parties /w links in description

Thumbnail youtu.be
9 Upvotes

r/PoliticalDebate • • Dec 24 '23

History Genuine question which I've, to everyone (but especially to a Marxist-Leninists). About Stalin and the famine of 1932-1933.

2 Upvotes

In 1929 the Head and of the Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Soviet Union de jure a head of the government of the USSR Alexei Rykov who was on this position since 1924 till 1930, in public discussion with Stalin claimed and advocated for a policy of borrowing and importing bread and wheat from foreign and capitalist countries, to sustain condition of Soviet peasantry and prevent any situation of mass hunger. It was required to pay 200 million roubles. That wasn't a such big amount of money and USSR can if government wished for it to pay this sum of money and get food. Rykov already at that time predicted and saw that stability of the Soviet village distorted and there's a high chance of mass hunger in the country.

Stalin refused this plan. He make an argument and defended his position that if USSR would be importing food from Western countries, it would shrink country reputation in the world and make the USSR perceived as a weak state begging to help from other countries.

Later in 1938 Alexei Rykov was sentenced to death as a part and a member of the Rightist fraction in the Communust party and executed.

So... What's your thoughts about this episode in history and Stalin response to Rykov request?

So here I present three quotes by Stalin himself:

First quote.

"Lastly, a few words about grain imports and our reserves of foreign currency. I have already mentioned the fact that Rykov and his close friends several times raised the question of importing grain from abroad. At first Rykov spoke of the need to import some 80-100 million poods of grain. This would require about 200 million rubles’ worth of foreign currency. Later, he raised the question of importing 50,000,000 poods, that is, for 100 million rubles’ worth of foreign currency. We rejected this suggestion, as we had come to the conclusion that it was preferable to bring pressure to bear upon the kulaks and wring out of them their quite substantial grain surpluses, rather than expend foreign currency earmarked for imports of equipment for our industry."

Second quote of Stalin in the same speech:

"Now Rykov makes a change of front. Now he asserts that the capitalists are offering us grain on credit, but that we refuse to take it. He said that several telegrams had passed through his hands, telegrams showing that the capitalists are willing to let us have grain on credit. Moreover, he tried to make it appear that there are people in our ranks who refuse to accept grain on credit either owing to a whim or for some other inexplicable reasons.

That is all nonsense, comrades. It would be absurd to imagine that the capitalists in the West have suddenly begun to take pity on us, that they are willing to give us some tens of millions of poods of grain practically free of charge or on long-term credit. That is nonsense, comrades."

And the third, last quote practically in the end of same Stalin's Speech:

"Was this policy correct? I believe that it was the only correct policy. It was correct not only because we found here, within our own country, new possibilities of obtaining grain. It was correct, too, because by managing without grain imports and by sweeping aside the intelligence agents of the capitalist world, we have strengthened our international position, improved our financial standing and exploded all idle chatter about “the impending collapse of Soviet power."

Speech is named "The Right Deviation in the C. P. S. U. (B.)." Speech was made in April 1929. Link: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1929/04/22.htm