r/LessCredibleDefence • u/barath_s • 2d ago

Chinese study explores wing-mounted radar to expand airborne surveillance

https://interestingengineering.com/military/china-wing-mounted-radar-airborne-surveillance
56 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

26 comments sorted by

9

u/barath_s 2d ago

The design was outlined in a study published in the Chinese peer-reviewed journal Measurement & Control Technology. .. authors include Ren Yunsong and researchers affiliated with the AVIC Chengdu Aircraft Design and Research Institute, which developed China’s J-20 stealth fighter and designed the two-seat J-20S variant intended to operate alongside unmanned aircraft.

The use cases mentioned include early surveillance and jamming especially in context of drone for distributed surveillance.

four operating modes for the wing-mounted radar, covering all-direction and multi-direction detection, wide-area surveillance, concentrated searches for specific targets and coordinated operations designed to counter electronic interference

And also

he antenna’s radiating surface would face downward, with a protective cover following the wing’s external contours.

With the use of aircraft maneuvers (including a 45 degree roll) for steering the radar..

Distributed surveillance is not a new concept nor are conformal arrays.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_antenna

However their proposed use in a operational drone or fighter would be new to me

While the Su-57 has cheek arrays, I've heard it described as closer to radar warning and IFF as compared to the primary nose array.; it's in addition, rather than instead.

Please feel free to pitch in with thoughts and insights

2

u/Besmirching_Badger 2d ago

Obviously it makes little sense from an overall design perspective (where you gonna put the fuel for one), but couldn't the wings technically be/incorporate radomes in their own right?

1

u/BodybuilderOk3160 2d ago

iirc, Su-57 already had a similar feature mounted on its wings (LERX?) with L-band arrays. I saw u/muctepukc's post on it once elsewhere, he may be able to confirm.

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u/IWearSteepTech 1d ago

How do these arrays compensate for the flex of the wing during maneuvers? Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I'd imagine the flex to throw off the individual TRMs, and hence creating a lot of noise for the data received.

2

u/PB_05 1d ago

If the function is to simply act like an RWR, or something along those lines (ESM only), then it doesn't really matter. You accept the noisy data and wait until the aircraft's flying straight and level for a more accurate DoA estimation.

1

u/Kougar 1d ago

If they can accurately measure the degree of flex then I don't see why there can't be some mathematical trickery to compensate for it in software? Fighters have much more rigid airframes than commercial planes too.

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u/AaronNevileLongbotom 2d ago

So China, who supposedly isn’t really getting close to Russia like everyone who was critical of the Ukraine war predicted, just so happens to start going to wing mounted radars like their totally not a real partner Russia has been doing.

20

u/barath_s 2d ago edited 2d ago

eh ?

Su-57 has nose and cheek radars X band radars (not in wings) (e:) and N036L radar on leading tip for early warning , IFF etc.

ref1 ref2

China has a paper study published on downward facing radar in the wings,

Conspiracy theories do not need to apply. You don't need any inside knowledge to create a study,

You could also say that the US has distributed radar concept, and China has this distributed radar concept and start the conspiracy theory ball rolling if you wanted ... Looking forward to something really off the wall

-15

u/AaronNevileLongbotom 2d ago

The Su-57 also has wing mounted radars. Don’t spread falsehoods just to try and dunk on me. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the impulse. I’m insufferable.

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u/BigFly42069 2d ago

Why wouldn't they design something to test out something they've observed?

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u/Danny_Adlerthe4th 2d ago

China also has stealth fighter jets reminiscent of America's F22 and F35. This must mean China and US are best buddies.

-6

u/AaronNevileLongbotom 2d ago

Those similarities are mostly superficial, the designs are rather different and decades apart. China does spy on us though. Meanwhile Russia and China are both researching the same concept at the same time. All I’m saying is that it’s sometimes what looks like two plus two might in fact be four. It’s okay to back off when you make a bad argument. Please believe me.

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u/Ok-Procedure5603 2d ago

Next you'll tell me Ukraine has given America some input on drone technology or Israel is selling something to NATO 

What is even the point of your post? 

2

u/barath_s 1d ago

Thought it was an interesting set of concepts , worth having more chat and potential insight on. Whether it was China or Israel made no difference except in other info around it.

This is lcd, doesn't mean you need to dedicate this sub to political grandstanding only.

What's the point of your comment ? You could have abstained instead

3

u/Accidental-Genius 2d ago

I do believe China is growing closer to Russia, because it’s easier to exploit a friend than an enemy, but that doesn’t preclude China developing and testing their own wing mounted radar independent of Russia.

Theres only so much surface area on an aircraft where you can bolt shit on. Popping a radar on the wings for shits and giggles to see what happens is an idea a lot of people have had without Russian influence.