r/Fantasy Virtual Con Panel: Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Welcome to the r/Fantasy Virtual Con panel on secrets! Feel free to ask the panelists any questions relevant to the topic. Unlike AMAs, discussion should be kept on-topic to the panel.

The panelists will be stopping by throughout the day to answer your questions and discuss the topic. Keep in mind our panelists are mostly located in Australia and New Zealand, so participation will be most active during waking hours in those timezones.

About the Panel

Join E. J. Beaton, Sam Hawke, Devin Madson, Shelley Parker-Chan, H.G. Parry, and Leife Shallcross in discussing secrets in speculative fiction. How do writers hide or reveal information to maximize suspense? When do secrets work well, and when do they fall short? And what exactly makes them so intriguing to read about?

About the Panelists

E. J. Beaton’s (/u/EJBeaton) first novel, THE COUNCILLOR, comes out with DAW in March 2021, with a sequel to follow. Her debut novel follows the story of a palace scholar who becomes elevated to a leadership position, and whilst choosing the next ruler, finds herself investigating the murder of her closest friend – the queen. E.J. completed her novel as part of a PhD, looking at the works of Machiavelli and Shakespeare alongside fantasy fiction. She has also published a poetry collection and an academic chapter on female Machiavellian characters in fantasy.

Twitter

Sam Hawke (/u/samhawke) is a lawyer by day, jujitsu instructor by night, and full-time wrangler of two small ninjas and two idiot dogs. Her debut fantasy, City of Lies, won the 2018 Aurealis Award (Best Fantasy Novel), Ditmar Award (Best Novel), and Norma K Hemming Award. She lives in Canberra, Australia.

Website | Twitter

Devin Madson (/u/DevinMadson) is an Aurealis Award-winning fantasy author from Australia. Her fantasy novels come in all shades of grey and are populated with characters of questionable morals and a liking for witty banter. Starting out self-published, her tradition debut, WE RIDE THE STORM, is out June 21 from Orbit

Website | Twitter

Shelley Parker-Chan is an Asian-Australian former diplomat who worked on human rights, gender equality and LGBT rights in Southeast Asia. Raised on Greek myths, Arthurian legend and Chinese tales of suffering and tragic romance, her debut novel She Who Became the Sun owes more than a little to all three.

Website | Twitter

H.G. Parry (/u/HGParry) is the author of THE UNLIKELY ESCAPE OF URIAH HEEP, the forthcoming A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF MAGICIANS, and a handful of short stories with even more unwieldy titles. She lives in a book-infested flat on the Kāpiti Coast in New Zealand, which she shares with her sister, a cat, three guinea-pigs, and two over-active rabbits, and holds a PhD in English Literature from Victoria University of Wellington.

Website | Twitter

Leife Shallcross is a hopeless fairy tale tragic. Her debut novel, The Beast’s Heart, a retelling of Beauty and the Beast, was published by Hodder & Stoughton in 2018 after being selected for publication from a field of 1445 manuscripts in Hodder’s 2015 open submissions window. Her short fiction has been published in Aurealis, Daily Science Fiction and several anthologies and she picked up the 2016 Aurealis Award for Best Young Adult Short Story. She also co-edited the 2018 anthology A Hand of Knaves from CSFG Publishing with Chris Large.

Website | Twitter

FAQ

• What do panelists do? Ask questions of your fellow panelists, respond to Q&A from the audience and fellow panelists, and generally just have a great time!
• What do others do? Like an AMA, ask questions! Just keep in mind these questions should be somewhat relevant to the panel topic.
• What if someone is unkind? We always enforce Rule 1, but we'll especially be monitoring these panels. Please report any unkind comments you see.

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Often after a Big Secret is revealed, readers can reread earlier chapters and pick up on subtle clues. How do you use foreshadowing effectively?

[u/CoffeeArchives]

If it's possible to talk about this without spoilers, what are some stories that you feel utilize secrets incredibly well?

[u/EJBeaton → u/CoffeeArchives]

I think the Broken Earth trilogy by N. K. Jemisin contains an excellent example of hiding a secret from the reader and later revealing it. Jemisin conceals a fundamental fact about the identity of a central character for some of the story. The revelation of the secret struck me as original and powerful, because it shows us something about identity in the broader sense of the word. It’s not just revealing “who” someone is, but what it means to be that person… what their experiences have been, and what emotional lives they have lived. It shows the difficulty of surviving and thriving in a world that can be harsh and unjust. When Jemisin finally connects the dots, she shows us how this person has managed to keep on going, despite everything.

The revelation of character identity in The Broken Earth trilogy also illustrates something about the scope of human experience – how one person’s life can be multifaceted and complex, and how that person can shift and change throughout the course of their life.

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Welcome, panelists! Feel free to introduce yourselves, share a little about your work, and tell us why you might be on this panel :)

[u/EJBeaton → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hello all! I'm E. J. Beaton (ej_beaton on Twitter). My first novel, THE COUNCILLOR, comes out with DAW in March 2021. It follows the story of a palace scholar, Lysande, who becomes unexpectedly elevated to a leadership position, and must try to stop an attack on the realm - while investigating the murder of her closest friend, the queen. Lysande struggles with an addiction to a magical drug, and with her growing interest in power, both of which she tries to hide. Many of the other characters in the novel are hiding something, too, so I'm excited to be on this panel.

I've read work by fellow panellists Sam and Devin, and can vouch for their characters having pocketfuls of secrets - and for their narratives having some big secret reveals. I'm currently reading Shelley's debut, and am looking forward to seeing how some of the characters will carry their secrets throughout the story.

[u/DevinMadson → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hello hello! I'm Devin Madson, epic fantasy author unextraordinaire. My traditional debut, We Ride the Storm is out in ONE MONTH and I'm doing totally fine, yes, thank you. Fiiiine. It's full of tense battles and intrigue and trippy necromancy, also snarkiness, respectful beheadings, flawed humans trying REALLY HARD, and tea. I am here upon the panel probably because of the twisty intrigue bit though, not because of the tea.

[u/HGParry → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hello everyone! I'm Hannah/H.G. Parry, from New Zealand, and my debut THE UNLIKELY ESCAPE OF URIAH HEEP (book characters coming to life on the streets of Wellington! Sibling rivalry and Dickens and girl adventurers and the Hound of the Baskervilles!) came out last year from Orbit. My next book A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF MAGICIANS (18th century with magic! Politics and shadows and revolution!) is out next month.

UNLIKELY ESCAPE is more or less a full-fledged mystery, complete with Sherlock Holmes, and there are lots of secrets and reveals. DECLARATION is more historical, but it still has a lot of very secret plans, because apparently I will *never stop writing* mysterious adversaries with secret plans...

I'm looking forward to talking with you all! :)

[u/shelleyparkerchan → u/CoffeeArchives]

Morning/evening, folks. I’m Shelley, and thanks for having me on this, my first-ever virtual panel! My debut epic historical fantasy, SHE WHO BECAME THE SUN, is out from Tor in Spring 2021. The closest thing to compare it to is a Chinese historical TV drama (but gayer. Yes, even gayer than The Untamed). It’s a genderbent reimagining of the rise of the founding emperor of the Ming dynasty, the one who expelled the ruling Mongols and reunified China under native rule in the 14th century. We follow an iron-willed peasant girl who, after her family’s death, takes her brother’s identity to enter a monastery. But when the monastery is destroyed by the Mongols’ feared eunuch general, she’s flung out into a world of chaos and war and fate—and she’s determined to do whatever it takes to survive.

If you know anything about Chinese historical dramas, you know favourite topics are stolen identities, hidden ambition, long-planned vengeances, and epic betrayal. So my characters definitely have a few secrets up their flowing sleeves ;)

[u/leioss → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hello everyone! I'm Leife. Also from Australia, also from Canberra, where it's all autumny and a bit cold right now. As my bio says, I think I'm your resident fairy tale tragic for this panel. My novel, The Beast's Heart, is a retelling of Beauty and the Beast, from the Beast's perspective, and I'm currently working on a Cinderella reimagining and a historical fantasy murder mystery set in London in the 18th Century. Secrets seem to be an intrinsic part of the fabric of the kinds of stories I adore, so looking forward to this!

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Why do you think hiding information from a reader is such a compelling "trick" in writing?

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Plot twists! I've seen them done so many different ways. Sometimes that have me pacing around in excitement and other times I sigh and wonder why the plot needed this particular twisting.

How do you approach this? What separates the good from the bad?

[u/Jos_V]

Hi guys,

Personally, I always get frustrated when i figure out the mystery before the protagonists. That puts me in a place of; whats the point of watching these characters flail in the dark when i already know the answer. But i know a lot of readers enjoy seeing characters piece together the clues they already found.

When dealing with secrets and twists, do you have specific strategies and preferences of when the audience is supposed to figure something out, versus the protagonists?

[u/DevinMadson → u/Jos_V]

I always find people's views on this point really interesting! For me personally as a reader, it depends whether the mystery is the main reason I'm still reading the book. If it is then I might start to feel disappointed were the answer obvious to me, but if the characters are gripping then I won't care.

As an author, I've always written in first person and because my books have more intrigue than outright mystery, I'm happy to just blindside my characters on occasion, which helps to keep readers on their toes. I think a balance is good. A lot of readers like to figure things out, so having some things they can, that perhaps aren't majorly important, is nice, but I do try to keep my big twists pretty well hidden. The sorts of things you're only likely to notice tiny hints to on a reread. (I'm sure some people will guess them early, you can't stop that happening and it's fine). Although in The Reborn Empire series, I have the interesting situation of having three first person POV characters, and since they don't meet all that often it leaves them all knowing different things on one particular mystery. So in that case, the reader absolutely will know all the details of it before any of the characters have a full picture, but because of what it is, it adds to the tension and danger rather than ruining a mystery. At least... it's meant to...

[u/cubansombrero]

Aussie here - I am very excited to be in the right timezone to participate for a change!

How do you effectively incorporate 'personal' secrets that your main characters hold (as opposed to secrets about the world around them, or about other characters' motivations)? There's often a fine line between learning something new about a character that makes so much of their previous actions and behaviour appear in a new light, versus feeling like you've been straight up lied to by someone whose head you've been living in for a significant part of the book.

[u/HiuGregg]

Hey guys!

When you have a situation where the POV character is keeping a secret from another character, and the reader is in on the secret...

How do you handle the internal anxiety/flapping? That "oh shit are they on to me?" flapping? That "what do they know?" flapping?

...flaps.

[u/DevinMadson → u/HiuGregg]

HELP HELP! I'M BEING TROLLED. But for cereal, Hiuboort, this is where you get all the glorious tensiiioooon. It's all in the awkwardness of characters who have suddenly forgotten how to human. How do I stand again? What are hands for? (I mean, other than for flapping) Why can't I meet that person's gaze?

As I write in first person I try to keep the actual internal anxiety to a minimum, though, because that gets tedious to read. Show your POV character is noticing they are doing these things or noticing other people doing them instead.

[u/samhawke → u/HiuGregg]

I'm going to pass this one on to Dev, who loves flaps more than anyone should love flaps.

[u/SharadeReads]

Hello all! Thank you for doing this panel :)

How do you guys handle writing misdirections without it coming across as gimmick-y?

edit: thank you so much for your answers, they are so good and interesting!!

[u/leioss → u/SharadeReads]

Oh good question. Fairy tales often aren't that interested in misdirection, because certain behaviours (eg kindness, selfishness) will give rise to expected outcomes. But when you're doing a retelling or a reimagining you can play with these structures and use them to manipulate reader expectations and spring fun surprises on your reader. It's my favourite thing about playing with fairy tales.

[u/CoffeeArchives]

When do you think secrets work particularly well? On the flip side, what types of secrets often fall flat?

[u/DevinMadson → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hmmmm this is a tough one, because I'm so tempted to just say the ones that work well are the ones no one is expecting. And that the ones that don't are often cliched or over signposted. But that's like... obvious. So to expand on the idea, cliched twists, or perhaps rather overused twists (think LUKE, I AM YOUR FATHER... secret family connections are VERY common in all sorts of fiction) are going to be ones that readers, having seen them many times before, will catch with only one or two hints. How many times have you seen a female character is feeling unwell AND LO AND BEHOLD she has secretly been pregnant all this time. You just... can't make these things surprising anymore without a LOT of work. BUT a twist on a overused twist... that would work well because you've then used the cliched expectation to trick your readers.

[u/EJBeaton → u/CoffeeArchives]

I’ve noticed that different readers take pleasure in different kinds of secrets. I personally love secrets that are grounded in characterisation. If the reveal of a murderer’s identity is entirely about *how* the villain covered their tracks and doesn't show us anything about *why* they committed their crimes, I’m less likely to enjoy it. On the other hand, if the writing shows me something about people – or about the power systems that people create and endure – I’ll enjoy the reveal of the murderer, even if I’ve already guessed which character was responsible for the crime!

Writing style can be important in making a secret “reveal” compelling. A long-winded explanation from a character telling us “here’s why I did it” can fall flat. It can be more engaging, as a reader, to experience the revelation through another character’s perspective. Dialogue can be great for this – having other characters figure out what’s happened and engage in dialogue, showing how they feel about the secret. Alternatively, the author can provide another character’s perspective on the reveal through the character's private thoughts, giving us their impressions. This can work well for characters who might be taciturn, shy, or introverted – we still get to read what they’re thinking about the secret.

[u/DevinMadson]

I have a question for my fellow panelists!

Mental health! I know a few of you have characters who struggle with mental health issues/keep their struggles a secret. How do you go about writing this more sensitive, personal kind of secret?

[u/The_Real_JS]

So many Australians! What Magic is this?!

I must heckle think of some serious questions now.

I either have read something by most of the panellists, or own something by them, but I think I'll throw this question to u/leioss. Your debut book, A Beasts Heart, is a Beauty and the Beast retelling, yes? How do you go about choosing a tale to tell? I love retellings and fairy tales in general, so whenever a new one comes up its like catnip for me. What's the secret to putting a fresh spin on it? I can imagine it can be a bit of a fine line deciding on being too close to the material, or going to far afield.

[u/scribblesloth]

Finally, a question of my own: is it possible to write something without secrets? I always think there is a big difference between unknown facets of the world that characters uncover, and secrets that people keep from each other. In the case of the latter, is it always necessary for characters to have secrets?