r/Fantasy Virtual Con: Queer SFF Panel

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Welcome to the r/Fantasy Virtual Con panel on Queer Science Fiction and Fantasy! Feel free to ask the panelists any questions relevant to the topic. Unlike AMAs, discussion should be kept on-topic to the panel.

The panelists will be stopping by throughout the day to answer your questions and discuss the panel topic.

About the Panelists

K.D. Edwards (/u/kednorthc) lives and writes in North Carolina. Mercifully short careers in food service, interactive television, corporate banking, retail management, and bariatric furniture has led to a much less short career in Higher Education. The first book in his urban fantasy series THE TAROT SEQUENCE, called THE LAST SUN, was published by Pyr in June 2018. Website | Twitter

AJ Fitzwater (/u/AJ_Fitzwater) lives between the cracks of Christchurch, New Zealand. A Sir Julius Vogel Award winner and graduate of Clarion 2014, their work has appeared in Clarkesworld, Beneath Ceaseless Skies, Shimmer, Giganotosaurus, and various anthologies of repute. A unicorn disguised in a snappy blazer, they tweet @AJFitzwater. Website

C. L. Polk (/u/clpolk) (she/her/they/them) is the author of the World Fantasy Award winning debut novel Witchmark, the first novel of the Kingston Cycle. She drinks good coffee because life is too short. She lives in southern Alberta and spends too much time on twitter. Website | Twitter

Alexandra Rowland ( /u/_alexrowland) is the author of A Conspiracy Of Truths, A Choir Of Lies, and Finding Faeries, as well as a co-host of the podcasts Worldbuilding for Masochists and the Hugo Award nominated Be the Serpent. Find them at www.alexandrarowland.net or on Twitter as @_alexrowland.

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Questions, comments, or suggestions about the r/Fantasy Virtual Con? Leave them here.

Edited to add FAQ:

• What do panelists do? Ask questions of your fellow panelists, respond to Q&A from the audience and fellow panelists, and generally just have a great time!

• What do others do? Like an AMA, ask questions! Just keep in mind these questions should be somewhat relevant to the panel topic.

• What if someone is unkind? We always enforce Rule 1, but we'll especially be monitoring these panels. Please report any unkind comments you see.

[u/SharadeReads → u/CoffeeArchives]

Heya Coffee & Mod team, thanks for organizing this! Do we ask questions as a comment to the thread? How does it work?

[u/CoffeeArchives → u/SharadeReads]

Feel free to ask questions just like you would in an AMA, except here the questions should be relevant to the discussion topic. Panelists can ask questions of each other, respond to Q&A from redditors, or both.

[u/CoffeeArchives]

Welcome panelists! Feel free to introduce yourselves and tell us about your work :)

[u/_alexrowland → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hi! I'm Alex Rowland! I'm nonbinary and demisexual, and as it says in my bio, I host some good good podcasts -- I'm currently on a sabbatical from World Building for Masochists, but that one is about really super intensely in-depth worldbuilding covering a huge range of topics; Be the Serpent is about literature and media, as well as the role of fanfiction in the broader literary conversation.

My books are extremely queer! Probably my number-one priority when writing fantasy is to build queerness into the very bones of the setting and have it be just... normal and not a big deal. A CONSPIRACY OF TRUTHS is a fantasy novel about fake news and the destructive power of stories; A CHOIR OF LIES is about the importance of community and the power of stories to rebuild and bring us closer together. FINDING FAERIES is forthcoming this fall -- it's a "nonfiction" field guide to finding supernatural creatures in the modern world, with a particular focus on the effects of climate change and urban sprawl.

Really excited to chat with my fellow panelists today!! (hope this intro wasn't too long, this is my first time ever posting on Reddit!!)

[u/kednorthc → u/CoffeeArchives]

Hello everyone! My name is KD Edwards, and I'm a gay man writing an urban fantasy series called THE TAROT SEQUENCE, which just happens to feature a lot of queer characters. I'm Gen X -- so I remember the world before Ellen blurted she was gay into an airport microphone. I'm a voracious reader; love quality SFF video games and TV; and have the best readers in the fuc*ing universe.

[u/LOLtohru]

Thanks for being here panelists! Do any of you have recommendations for any SFF books featuring asexual characters? The one I know of offhand is Seanan McGuire.

[u/kednorthc → u/LOLtohru]

Read TJ Klune! He includes Ace characters in his writing, especially the GREEN CREEK books.

And...well....me. Soon. One of my series' mainstay character is Quinn Saint Nicholas. From the start, I've been developing his identity as Ace, and plan on making it a slow journey. By the time the third book hits, he'll be able to start putting it into words himself. This is something I'm researching heavily, because I want to do it well. I have a lot of Ace readers who deserve that.

Also, Goodreads has a lot of great lists on the subject, like this:

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/105434.Aro_and_Ace_Spectrum_Characters_in_SFF

[u/Leukothea → u/kednorthc]

As someone who is Ace and also loved The Last Sun and The Hanged Man, you have no idea how much this means to me. Thank you so much!! Your books are really awesome, and it goes without saying that I can hardly wait for the third book now! (No pressure tho) :)

[u/LOLtohru → u/kednorthc]

Thank you!

[u/_alexrowland → u/LOLtohru]

KA Doore's THE PERFECT ASSASSIN! which i now have to go add to my recs post elsewhere in the thread

[u/GALACTIC-SAUSAGE]

I'm working on a story where polyamory is the norm but my main character is maybe asexual. How do I avoid it seeming like I'm trying to send a message of 'polyamory decadent, abstinence good,' and what other issues should I be careful of?

[u/_alexrowland → u/GALACTIC-SAUSAGE]

hmmmmm. Give the asexual character friends who are polyam. If the ace character is personally sex-repulsed, let the polyam characters respect and accommodate that *and then let the ace one respect them too*. Also polyamory is not all about sex, it's about *relationships*, and also not all relationships are even romantic. How does this setting view committed friendships? What are the cultural/economic/contextual reasons that polyamory is What Works Best here? How does the ace character feel about relationships--not just sexual, but romantic, platonic, familial?

These are a bunch of rhetorical questions for you to consider, not anything that requires an answer. :) If you're worried about sending a message of "decadence vs abstinence", then think about what message you *do* want to send (something like "how we connect with each other" for example, maybe?) and then do that with Intention.

[u/[deleted] → u/GALACTIC-SAUSAGE]

I think one good way is to make sure that your polyamorous people are just doing what they do and it's fine...and when they learn your protagonist is maybe asexual, they're cool with it, and it's not strange or tragic or sad, or any of the other microaggressions that one is trained to expect when encountering an asexual character.

at the same time, your asexual character isn't judging your polyamorous characters for being in interesting interlinked relationships. make everybody cool with everybody else, I guess I'm saying.

[u/Lesingnon]

Hello panelists! Thank you for giving us something interesting to do during quarantine and slowing our gradual slide into isolation-induced insanity.

One of the issues that can arise with minority characters in literature is that it can be difficult for writers who don't belong to that minority to portray them and the issues they face well, for any variety of reasons. Thankfully it seems to be less and less of an issue as time progresses, but it probably won't ever disappear entirely. What do you think are some of the more common mistakes in the portrayal of LGBTQIA+ characters, and what advice would you give on how to avoid them?

[u/kednorthc → u/Lesingnon]

Let's see.... That's a good one. And the answer has changed over time, thank God. It would have been REALLY easy to answer this question back in the 70s and 80s and 90s. Now, at least, the LGBTQIA+ community -- MY community -- is visible. That said, I think there are still some common.....er, I wouldn't call them mistakes. I'd say "mis-emphasis." Too much emphasis on over the top fabulousness! (Which exists, because, of course. But it's not everything. There are plenty of us who wish we had half the wit to take tea with the ladies of Drag Race.) Too much emphasis on the sex part in our sexuality, as if it's all that defines us. Too much speech styling -- as if a queer person can't sound like any voice in the crowd. Too much emphasis on just the G of LGBTQIA+, instead of the full, awesome spectrum.

Other panelists have mentioned this already -- it's great to see the "casualness" of being queer in stories and TV and movies. Not about being queer; but just having authentic, relatable queer characters in your story.

[u/Mattyfp]

Thank you all for being here! There is so much wonderful LGBTQ+ fantasy out now, and it warms my heart. What are some potential lesser known authors who you would signal boost?

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/Mattyfp]

It's still too early in the morning for my brain to be working properly, so I'm going to come back to this question throughout the day and add to my list.

Nino Cipri - brilliant short story writer, critic, and their novella FINNA is out now.

Andi C Buchanan - FROM A SHADOW GRAVE does great things with multiple narrative structures, and is a ghost story set in historical Wellington.

[u/kednorthc → u/Mattyfp]

(Matty!)

I loved MURDER AT THE WORLD's FAIR by MJ LYONS. Historical sci-fi, gay leads, well written and researched and fun.... So many great elements to this story.

GREGORY ASHE writes a ton of mystery and queer YA. Check out ANYTHING he's done, but especially the HOLLOW FOLK series.

Last month I finished a book by ALEX STARGAZER, called FALLEN LOVE. He's a young author, and I can't wait to see what he develops into as he keeps at it. There are seeds of amazing creativity and world-building in his earlier works.

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/kednorthc]

Bogi Takacs - Current collection THE TRANS SPACE OCTOPUS CONGREGATION

Merc Fenn Wolfmoor - Lots of brilliant short stories mercfennwolfmoor.com

Bo Bolander - Many cool stories (I love OUR TALONS CAN CRUSH GALAXIES) and an awesome novella THE ONLY HARMLESS GREAT THING

Margaret Killjoy - THE LAMB WILL SLAUGHTER THE LION and THE BARROW WILL SEND WHAT IT MAY

Izzy Wasserstein - Plenty of cool short fiction

JY Neon Yang - The Tensorate novella series

Kai Ashante Wilson - I adore A TASTE OF HONEY and THE SORCERER OF THE WILDEEPS

Rivers Solomon - THE DEEP and AN UNKINDNESS OF GHOSTS are their longer work, but try their short fiction too, it's so sharp

And a magazine I can recommend (I'm a little biased coz I've been published by them) is GLITTERSHIP (glittership.com). All queer stories, all the time, in podcast and readable form.

[u/Dianthaa]

Hi all and thank you for doing this panel. I love books, like The Tarot Sequence, where being queer is fully accepted. So what are your favourite happy happy joy joy queer worlds in SFF? Or what thoughts would you have for some?

[u/leftoverbrine]

We see a lot of people, genuine or disingenuous, question the "why" we get specific recs. So, tell us why representation is important to you?

On the lighter side, what are you doing currently for escapism/relaxation?

[u/kednorthc → u/leftoverbrine]

Representation is everything. It leads to community and courage. It makes you feel loved and supported. It gives you strength when you have none of your own; and it allows you to share your strength when you have extra to give. And in its best form, it makes you strong enough to venture out and experience new things past your own identity.

What am I doing now? In terms of the Coronavirus quarantine? Oh wow, I've been quarantined for 4 weeks now. I started early because of a case of pneumonia. So cabin fever is already very, very real to me, and I know it's going to last AT LEAST another month. Starting this week, I'm going to get my ass in gear and dive into writing. Up until now, I focused on health -- getting better; sleeping about 12 hours a day; I lost myself in great authors like JULIE CZERNEDA (webshifters FTW!) and BEN AARONOVITCH (Peter Grant rocks!); and I played pleasant open-world video games. FIRE EMBLEM: THREE HOUSES and AC:ODYSSEY expansions.

[u/eriophora → u/kednorthc]

I feel like it says a lot about my recent video game habits that I spent a solid minute wracking my brain for any recollection of Animal Crossing: Odyssey. I was rather excited for a minute, thinking that I had perhaps missed mention of a story-driven Animal Crossing game! And then, of course, I realized: oh, you're talking about an assassin-y murderkill game, not a friendly capitalist raccoon game. Well. Well then.

[u/[deleted] → u/leftoverbrine]

I'm playing a lot of games. World of warcraft mainly (that game is an addiction I cannot deny) and board games with friends on steam.

[u/leftoverbrine → u/[deleted]]

that game is an addiction I cannot deny

I haven't played in years, but was a tank in a very hardcore raiding guild and had the original Insane achievement... so, I 100% understand.

[u/_alexrowland → u/leftoverbrine]

Representation is important to me because there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than can be dreamt of in your philosophy. The world is bigger and more complicated and vibrant than is possible to hold in your head at one time. I just want to see as many different bits of it as I can. :)

For escapism, I'm reading reams and reams of fanfic about The Untamed, writing reams and reams of fanfic about The Untamed, and playing Stardew Valley. :D

[u/leftoverbrine → u/_alexrowland]

I keep seeing The Untamed pop up the past couple days! I really gotta watch it.

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/leftoverbrine]

Representation is important to me because I didn't have it when I was young. Being a teenager in the later 80s and early 90s, the queer narrative was death and nihilism. AIDs scared the ever loving crap out of me. If I'd had mentors to tell me it was ok, there was strength in numbers, I wouldn't have dissociated from my body. If I had seen queer characters and stories earlier, I wouldn't have floundered around for years trying (and failing) to find myself. Queer SFF has been a big part of coming to grips with my identity. This includes finding my people in the community of authors and readers.

For escapism and relaxation in these very trying times, I'm turning to my beast of a TBR. I'm also about to embark on a She-Ra rewatch before the last season. She-Ra is so gloriously queer, and I'm so glad it's there for people to revel in, and young queers to discover their joy.

[u/eriophora]

Hi all! The thing that tends to delight me most about most modern queer fic I've read is that the relationships are based on communication and trust. Too often, straight fic seems to create drama due to characters willfully failing to communicate or not trusting one another, which really rubs me the wrong way. Do you have any pet peeves that you see far too often in fiction that features straight cis couples? How did that influence you when you wrote your own characters?

[u/kednorthc → u/eriophora]

Hmmm.... Great question. I think you NAILED my biggest pet peeve. And it's even more frustrating when the lack of communication is too clearly the author's hand, stirring the plot. There are other ways to further a narrative than skipping over the sensible sort of conversations two adults normally have.

Another trope is when EVERYTHING revolves around that relationship. It's not necessarily just a straight trope, for sure -- but when I see it happen in queer lit, it's even more jarring, because so much of queer identity is about community, or our relationship to the world around us, or our tension with authority. To have a single spotlight shining on a single relationship (outside actual romance novels, of course) where the entire world just moves out of the way for that relationship always seems a little indulgent and narrow-visioned. But, hell, there are good and bad examples of EVERY trope!

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/eriophora]

Oh yes, I am often found to be muttering (or shrieking) "Just talk to each other!"

There's the ol' hetero patriarchy nonsense of trying to gender bind a couple. She must be beautiful and femme, he must be handsome and masculine. What about the butch bi woman and the femme-play man? What about them exploring androgyny together?

And sooooo many love triangles could be solved with, and made more interesting by, polyamory. I remember the final orgy scene in Sense8 where everyone was "eh, whatever goes" and welcomed new partners into their lives and I was squeeing with delight.

OR. Love triangles could be solved by not choosing a partner at all. "I'm too busy saving the world to bone, geez Gale."

[u/eriophora → u/AJ_Fitzwater]

I very desperately want more love triangles that ultimately result in polyamory. Please. Give it to me. Let them all be happy together. 😭

I really need to watch Sense8. I originally bounced off it, but that was before you and a few other folks mentioned that it is queer as hell. That is something that very thoroughly catches my attention. This is the first time I'd heard it also ended in a poly relationship, too, which is even more exciting!

[u/lost_chayote]

Thanks to everyone for setting this up and taking time to participate!

K.S. Villoso wrote an interesting blog post about the frustrations of the labeling of "diverse" fantasy. Are there any particular challenges brought on by having your work labeled as "queer" or "diverse"? Are there benefits?

*Edit to Add:

(Feel free to ignore this one if it's too personal) Can you talk a bit about your own identities, what they mean to you? And if you have them, any recommendations of good representations of your identities in SFF?

[u/_alexrowland → u/lost_chayote]

Back in roughly October of 2016 when I got my first agent, I was *very* anxious about being "pigeonholed" as writing "only queer books". I was genuinely, deeply worried about this from a career perspective. I seriously considered the cost/benefit stuff -- should I write some Not Queer books, so people would know I was capable of it? Would it impact my ability to get more book contracts in the future, or to be taken seriously as a grown-up Serious Fantasy Writer (tm)?

And then November of 2016 happened -- the election. And I think that's prooobably when the tide change started to happen in my brain? Because the next time I thought to myself, "Oh god, should I be really anxious about writing queer books?", I just scoffed at myself and said, "No, and in fact I am going to queer even *harder*."

Theoretically, the challenge with my work being labeled "queer" or "diverse" is that I will sell fewer copies of books to fewer readers. On the other hand, labeling things What They Are means that it's easier for the people who *want* to read them to find them! Realistically, the people who would have a problem reading a book because it was labeled "queer" are probably not going to like my work anyway??? I feel like it is a fool's errand to try to sell something to someone who won't really enjoy it, so I'd rather focus on reaching the people who are prepared to love it with their whole hearts.

[u/kednorthc → u/lost_chayote]

I'm a gay man. Yes, I worried at first that my book would never be considered mainstream because it largely focused on gay men, even if their sexuality was not the plot itself. That worry lasted right up until my very first call with my agent. She'd just asked for my full manuscript on a Friday, and called me at 7am on Monday morning wanting to represent me. It was like a dream. And I remember telling her, "I can write this more mainstream if you're worried about the gay element." And she said -- literally admonished me -- "This book IS mainstream." And she was right. I touched a much wider audience than I would have ever imagined, 3 years later.

I think the greatest part of my publishing experience is that people who are like me -- people who wanted a book like this, which they could see themself in -- are happy with it. And people who aren't like me say that they love how this element is in the story without BEING the story, because it makes for an interesting reading experience.

So...I'm going to continue marching to my own drumbeat on this one. I want to produce a kick-ass urban fantasy series that just happens to feature a lot of queer identities in the background.

[u/_alexrowland → u/kednorthc]

Awwwww. Agents are good actually. <3333 I'm so glad yours was so fiercely supportive!!!!

[u/kednorthc → u/_alexrowland]

Sara Megibow is the best agent in the universe. I heart her so much. I cannot imagine being on this journey without her.

[u/[deleted] → u/lost_chayote]

I think the challenges I face now are not as troublesome as they could have been in the past. I don't feel like I have to write a world where coming out and all the drama people were trained to expect doesn't have to happen any more.

One challenge - and this is a weird one - is the assumption that books with queer characters or disabled characters or characters of color are YA. I don't understand that sometimes!

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/lost_chayote]

When I first started writing SFF seriously, I didn't know it would take a queer turn, but I'm glad it did. Queer SFF has been a significant part of helping me understand my identity, and the possibilities of a better, queerer world.

When I was still huddling in the closet (I still linger back near Narnia sometimes, depending), I worried myself sick about what I thought was "exposing myself" too much in my writing. Indeed, some people read me wrong or tried to needle me about it (sliiiide further back into Narnia).

A turning point came when a mentor asked me "What do you want from your writing career?" At the time I said money and fame didn't matter, and it still doesn't, I just didn't know quite what I meant at the time. Since then I've come to understand and hone the answer as "I want to have a conversation with the world". Sometimes, those conversations pay dividends in other ways. I want my stories to be there for queer people like they weren't there for me when I was younger. I want my work to be part of conversation, a culture, a remembering.

And that meant letting go and saying, yeah, my work is damn queer, and these stories need refining.

Embracing my work as queer meant embracing the totality of myself. It's conversation that reflects upon the individual, community, and culture, back and forth.

[u/SharadeReads]

Hello and thank you for being here, panelists! What recent queer SFF books would you recommend?

[u/_alexrowland → u/SharadeReads]

Mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but mentioning here so they're all in one place: Emily Tesh's SILVER IN THE WOOD, Jenn Lyons' Chorus Of Dragons series, and AK Larkwood's THE UNSPOKEN NAME are incredibly good.

My co-panelist CL Polk's WITCHMARK also melted my face off because it was so brilliant.

KJ Charles is a romance author and some of her books have delightful speculative elements (THE CASEBOOK OF SIMON FEXIMAL, SPECTRED ISLE, and The Charm of Magpies series, for example).

Everybody mentions Tamsyn Muir's GIDEON THE NINTH and I too am going to mention Tamsyn Muir's GIDEON THE NINTH. It has been hyped, and deservedly so.

Jennifer Giesbrecht's THE MONSTER OF ELENDHAVEN is dark and gritty and luscious.

THE GRANDMASTER OF DEMONIC CULTIVATION is currently consuming my *entire life*. The original Chinese novel has a fan translation which is okay, but it was also adapted into a live action show called The Untamed (available with subtitles on Netflix! Due to Chinese censorship issues, the canonical queer love story had to be shifted to subtext but I wrote a tumblr post about that here, and let me assure you it is still *very* gay and full of yearning)

EDIT:
also KA Doore's THE PERFECT ASSASSIN, for a sweet stabby asexual cinnamon roll main character.
Also Seanan McGuire's EVERY HEART A DOORWAY.
Also also Shelley Parker-Chan's SHE WHO BECAME THE SUN which is coming out next year.

I will probably keep editing this as I think of more!!

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/_alexrowland]

Oh Doge, slap me in the feels about Gideon The Ninth. Putting the bones into boner :P (come on, Tamsyn has left it wide open for the dirty puns)

And oop, my TBR just burst. THANKS ALEX.

Oh, everything Sarah Gailey writes. I just smeared UPRIGHT WOMEN WANTED all over my face (queer. librarians). And the AMERICAN HIPPO stories has a delightfully cranky non-binary gunslinger.

[u/kednorthc → u/SharadeReads]

Everyone else already gave phenomenal recommendations, so I'll defer. Just wanted to say "hi Sharade!"

[u/SharadeReads → u/kednorthc]

Hello Keith! How are you doing? I hope you're taking good care of Rune, Brand and the gang!

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/SharadeReads]

I really enjoy the Transcendent series of anthologies put out by Lethe Press. The perfect taste tester of authors and themes, collecting the best trans short stories of the year.

[u/AJ_Fitzwater → u/AJ_Fitzwater]

And having taken a wander past my book shelf...

Another Lethe Press anthology I would recommend is BEYOND BINARY (ed. Lee Mandelo). As the title suggests, all the stories have characters that are some sort of non binary or genderqueer. It's almost 10 years old, and it's aged well.

[u/JCKang → u/SharadeReads]

Following!

[u/kjmichaels]

Hi, panelists! Thanks for taking the time to do this. So in writing queer worlds, there tend to be two opposite approaches: write a world where queer identities are accepted and commonplace or write a world that is more similar to our current reality where queer characters face marginalization from the mainstream. How do each of you decide between writing an aspirational world that we hope ours may someday be like or writing a world that is a less hopeful but maybe also more closely reflects what LGBTQ readers experience in their own lives?

[u/kednorthc → u/kjmichaels]

Nice question. I went for total aspirational in my series. My series takes place in a reimagined, modern-day Atlantis. Sexuality is completely fluid. The only thing more unusual than a 100% gay person is a 100% straight person. I wanted to make that such an omnipresent element of Atlantean society that I didn't even NEED to use the words "gay" or "straight" -- and I haven't, yet, in either book.

Why did I do this? Because my favorite quote is from MAN OF LA MANCHA -- "Life life as it should be, not as it is." And because I remember all the angsty, dark gay literature of the 70s and 80s and 90s. I lived through that. And now I want the freedom to tell a story with queer characters, not the freedom to tell a story about queer characters.