En cualquier lugar —incluso un cementerio o una casa vieja— ocurren ruidos o eventos aleatorios sin explicación inmediata. Si la persona no le da importancia y lo ignora, el evento muere ahí y no sucede nada absolutamente.

​Días después ocurre un segundo ruido o el crujido de un paso. Aquí es donde la persona comete el error crítico: en lugar de descartarlo, le presta atención. Esa fijación mental actúa como la primera gota de sangre en el agua, llamando la atención de entidades que antes no tenían un canal .

A medida que la persona se hipervigila y se enfoca en el fenómeno, la manifestación se agrava. El sonido ya no es un crujido sutil, sino el impacto claro de alguien corriendo en el pasillo. Las señales ya no se sienten como casualidades porque la entidad ha sido atraída deliberadamente por el foco de la persona.

​

Finalmente, el ruido y la presencia se vuelven tan intensos que resulta imposible ignorarlos. Al haber alimentado el fenómeno con atención y miedo constantes durante tanto tiempo, el individuo ha dejado pasar a la entidad, completando la transición de la mera obsesión mental a una apertura espiritual plena donde el depredador toma control.

Esta misma lógica explica por qué, tras ver películas como El Exorcista, tantas personas de repente creen estar poseídas o experimentan fenómenos extraños. No es que la película traiga un demonio adherido a la pantalla; es que la cinta funciona como un interruptor de atención. Siembra la idea en la cabeza del espectador, quien sale del cine con el radar hiperactivado, buscando sombras, analizando cada crujido de su casa y prestando atención a detalles que antes ignoraba por completo. Al enfocar su mente ahí, "echa la sangre al agua" y se hacercan los demonios como tiburones ambrientos sin nesecidad de estar ahi prebiamente.

Lo mismo ocurre con los cementerios. Las peores cosas o las sensaciones más aterradoras no ocurren por el cementerio en sí mismo como espacio físico, sino por la idea que tenemos del lugar. Si lo piensas bien, ¿a qué lugar no ha pisado la muerte a lo largo de los siglos? Prácticamente cualquier terreno del planeta ha sido pisado, habitado y dejado atrás por personas que ya no están; todo el mundo es, en el fondo, un cementerio. La única diferencia es que al cementerio oficial le ponemos la etiqueta del miedo, lo que obliga a nuestro cerebro a encender la alerta, prestar atención a cada detalle y, sin darnos cuenta, abrirle la puerta a la obsesión.

Es mi teoria porque me parece raro creer que estas cosas pasan casi al azar(es como pensar que los demonios tienen una ruleta para decidir quien poseer hoy).Y de hecho defiende la idea original de como es que ocurre la posesió

My central claim: Fallen World theodicy offers no criterion for what counts as a consequence of the fall, which makes it unfalsifiable, and which licenses absurd extensions. Even if I were a theist, I would still find it vacuous as it explains everything and nothing at once about how the world is in its current state.

Allow me to give the conclusion that I hope to support: A believer in the Fallen World theodicy can, and perhaps even must, believe that feces smells unpleasant only because sin entered the world. I say this because Fallen World theodicy is the oft used scapegoat to explain all natural suffering like cancer and tsunamis, but the implications of this claim must be grappled with, and would lead to the above conclusion for the believer in question.

Argument 1: Unevidenced and Unfalsifiable

Unless you don't believe in the scientific consensus of an old earth and evolution, the fact is that natural suffering and their causes have been in existence long before humans could ever walk the earth and do whatever it is that caused the fall. Attempts to account for this can go as far as to claim that the world was actually a paradise with no disease or natural disasters, but when humans introduced sin, then the world was retroactively changed by some temporal means to then be full of disease and suffering before humans came about. Of course, this is neither falsifiable nor evidenced in any way whatsoever. It is pure wild speculation at best.

Less popular is the suggestion that it's actually only humans that were immune to disease and natural suffering when they first came about, but when sin came, that's when this immunity vanished. Again, lacking evidence. There is no way to know this is true beyond mere speculation. It suggests that the earliest human ancestors, somewhere within the delineation between homo heidelbergensis and homo sapien, were just immune to disease and natural disasters for some period, and then this immunity ended somehow.

Argument 2: No Epistemic Limits

Christians who abide by the fallen world theodicy will sometimes claim that things like cancer or tsunamis or earthquakes were not meant to be part of our universe. They were not in the initial blueprints of God's design, they say, and they do so despite having no real confirmation of what the pre-Fallen world actually was like. Ideas about the pre-Fallen world are extrapolations at best.

The issue comes about when there is no real epistemic limit to what could ever actually be excused as part of a fallen world. It can be something as terrible as a tsunami that kills thousands, or as small as an itch on the nose. There is no identifiable or consistent mechanism that translates whatever state the universe was in prior to the fall of man to the state it's in now.

Before the fall of man, cancer didn't exist. After it, now it does. How? Did sin introduce carcinogens? What about earthquakes? Were there none before, and now there are? How? Did sin introduce tectonic shifts? Did those not exist before sin entered the world? We don't have any real explanation for how this occurs. All we have is a broad encompassing category of bad things, and they must all not have been bad or not have existed at all before the fall, regardless of how fundamentally different the causes are of each example. Sin just can just cause all manner of reality-bending that introduces suffering into the world, from cancer to plague to dengue fever to predation to parasites to sudden infant death syndrome, etc.

But because there's no epistemic limit to these speculations, we can include even minor inconveniences or limits to human ability, can we not?. Take my earlier example with feces: sure, it has its uses, but it smells unpleasant. Well, if we can just say anything about the Fallen World without needing to back it up, then we can claim that feces actually smelled delightful before the Fall. Hell, why not take it a step further, and say that outright eating feces was nutritious, but sin made it unpleasant and poisonous?

And why stop there? Maybe the unpleasant feeling when a person eats too much food is also a result of the fall. Maybe the fact that we are constrained by gravity is also a result of the fall. Maybe children physically and mentally matured quickly rather than undergo awkward transition periods into adulthood before the fall. Virtually any undesirable or inconvenient aspect of our world can be declared as a consequence of the fall after the fact. Who is the believer to say otherwise, when there is no epistemic standard to deny it with?

Conclusion:

The Fallen Word theodicy, the way it's used so often, recognizes a fact of our world: "There exists natural suffering not caused by human decisions." And in acknowledging this, it tries to answer the question: "How can this happen with a tri-omni god?"

It answers with statements without evidence, blanketly placing any and every kind of natural pain or inconvenience into one whole category, and putting it squarely on the shoulders of humans rather than on the all-knowing designer. It is a means of salvaging God's tri-omni properties by asking "How can we explain natural suffering to be NOT the fault of the all-knowing and all-powerful designer of the universe?" There is no limit to what it can excuse because Fallen World theodicy is clearly not meant to mechanistically explain the state of the world. I'd argue that its purpose is an ad hoc shift of the blame from God to man. This is why I say that the believer must accept the idea that bad smells are a result of the fall, because if they can simply make unevidenced statements as to the pre-fall state, then any claim is as good as any other as long as it falls under the category of naturally occurring unpleasantness. One can claim that God made humans could literally eat poop without a problem prior to the Fall, and the believer in the Fallen World couldn't possibly say otherwise, or else open the door to skepticism and a need for evidence for each claim.

Note: At the least, I can acknowledge that other arguments that explain the state of the world ("God puts these sources of natural suffering as a test", "Natural suffering leads to greater goods", "Natural suffering builds virtues", etc.) avoid the issues I stated to some extent. They at least show that these sources of natural suffering were purpose-built rather than a sudden accidental state inexplicably brought about by human beings.

I have read online that the Gospel of Thomas was rejected from the New Testament because it does not place emphasis on Jesus’ death and resurrection, and that the view of Nicean Christianity is that it is through His death and resurrection that we are saved. I’m not completely against Paul but this idea comes from him, not the gospels or Jesus himself. Rather I’d argue that his death and resurrection serves as absolute proof that He is who He says is, and that His message is truth.

Jesus said to believe in Him (to believe in His ways and the knowledge that He’s giving to us), THAT is the key to salvation. Not once in the gospels did Jesus say he specifically came to die for our sins, this is an idea that developed later so why must a gospel contain this element to be considered divinely inspired? Is a collection of Jesus’ sayings not a Gospel—which literally translates to “good news”? Jesus’ mission was never to die for our sins, but it was his destiny to die because of them, as written by the prophet Isaiah.

With the issue of the Gospel being written too late, with no older manuscripts found I cannot go against that in good faith, but little bits of it suggest that it’s potentially from an earlier time. Specially, in saying 27, Jesus states that we must keep the Sabbath as a Sabbath—a day of rest and worship, and If this Gospel was a forgery written in the 2nd century, a time where Christians already switched to Sunday worship, why then would they make up a saying of Jesus preaching to keep the Sabbath (Saturday) as the holy day? Would this not suggest that this was written at a time where Christ’s followers still observed Saturday as the holy day? Which would be within the first 100 years after his crucifixion, when Christianity was still a Jewish sect?

And lastly, this gospel is seen as gnostic and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. Jesus of the canonical gospels very much so preached about self discovery and seeking knowledge of one’s self to find the kingdom, while also proclaiming his divinity and connection to the Father through the Holy Spirit, the Gospel of Thomas says the same thing. The only thing that makes this one different is that it’s not a narrative gospel, it’s purely a gospel compromised of Jesus’ sayings—most of which are already found in the New Testament in some way. The emphasis on Jesus’s death and resurrection was a later addition to the faith, His earliest followers saw it as a tragedy rather than the means to which we are saved.

When we talk about first cause (and this is something we don't all agree on), and then jump to the conclusions that God must be the first cause, this is a great leap of faith.

If we agree that there's a first cause, we still haven't established what the first cause is. You need more to attribute something like the self-sufficient, the absolute, the all loving, all-knowing, etc...

You need to go through a lot of arguments and proofs to prove that the first cause is God.

There is a genetic Adam and Eve but they did not exist together at the same time. Therefore the Catholic Church is wrong.

We have the Miracles of the Sun of Fatima and the Buenos Aires Eucharist miracles which present 100% that Catholicism is true.

The miracle at Fatima shows that this miracle confirms Catholic Dogma, the Virgin Mary calling herself the Immaculate Conception. The Eucharist miracles the constantly proclaim the Dogma of the Real Presence but only shown in the Eucharist of the Catholic Church.

Check the video from Ethan Muse on the Miracle of the Sun

These are only two modern miracles that God has revealed along the history of the Church to remind people who the True God. No other religions has this amount of miracles that show that Catholicism is true.

Islam only has Muhammad and even that one is from the Hadiths at least 100 years later. Judaism does not present any miracles either. Buddhism only presented miracles during the life of Buddha but does account are not trust worthy and come centuries later. Ancient Greeks and Romans did not have miracles. Nordic pagans did not have miracles. Zoroastrianism does not have miracles.

Obviously miracles does not necessarily imply true, but it really shows the power of the deity. In this case the Catholic Church has shown many miracles throughout its life and that still happen today.

What the world calls Christianity today is not the path of Christ. It is the ghost of the Roman Empire wrapped in a cross—a culture that claims to have killed the man, yet turned their murder weapon into his ultimate symbol. The story of Christ must be read like any mythic scripture of antiquity: a map of archetypes, the collective conscious, and the collective unconscious. The Romans recognized the existential threat this inner message posed to their authority, so they co-opted the narrative and redistributed it to the masses as an instrument of state control. The real tragedy of modern religion is that it copied the Roman playbook. Instead of offering the inner, spiritual transformation Jesus actually taught, institutions adopted Rome’s hunger for power, money, and compliance. Rome did not perish; it merely survived every time an institution turned the Divine into a business, replaced inner awakening with blind obedience, and built a modern empire beneath the shadow of a cross

Preamble:

I have been focusing on what I considered the "foundational story" of Christianity, and I came up with the "Fall" of mankind as it's often called.. the story of Adam and Eve in the garden.

It's not the first story.. there was the creation of the universe before the garden story.

I picked the one that I liked the best.. the one that deeply resonates with most Christians, because without the fall, there would be no need for the crucifixion of Jesus, or his resurrection.. which a lot of Christians tell me is the central story.. the foundational story.

Im going to switch to the crucifixion here..

Today, I'm focusing on Matthew 26:39

“O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

It's clear to me that Jesus would have willed to not be crucified... to not die... but that nevertheless, he chose obedience over his own free will.

He gave up his free will I guess "freely"... ?
Was he free ?

God only knows.
Again, the bible doesn't explain if Jesus had free will nor if his "Father" had any.

In fact, the bible never once mentions the term "free will".

Here is my argument:

P1. Jesus expresses a desire to avoid crucifixion (Matthew 26:39).

P2. Jesus voluntarily submits his will to the Father’s contrary will.

C. Therefore, Jesus chooses obedience over exercising his own free will.

(1) Young Earth Creationist leaders like Ken Ham and Kent Hovind often liked to say, and still often probably do. That accepting an old earth makes a Christian more susceptible to disbelief.

(2) Just search examples and if you've maybe ever heard of anything from young earth creationists becoming old earth Christians, but abandoning young earth behind, and you'll see you won't realistically ever hear if at all, of an old earth in-line with mainstream scientific understanding causing significant faith issues.

(3) This is itself perhaps evidence that young earth creationism is a problem generally towards accepting or rejecting scientific claims, not religion itself or Christianity itself, in my opinion.

(4) If you think religion deconverting or convincing people to become atheists, is what you need to actively encourage or do, please do not attack it generally as it's very multi-faceted.

If god had a creator and that creator wanted god to think he is uncreated, there would be no way for god to know it. The typical answer "god is eternal, therefore he cannot be created" does not really work. If god was created, his creator could very easily give god a false sense of being eternal. Think about it this way: according to Christianity or Islam, god can easily create a human that thinks anything. He could create someone that thinks he is uncreated and everlasting.

A being with infinite knowledge should understand this. It is not normal that an infinitely intelligent god could not understand that they could be fooled by an entity above it. If he cannot understand this, then something is blocking that thought. That "something" is god's creator.

What do you say is the Spirit of God? Is it the spirit of the family or is it the spirit of slavery? For a servant has no permanent place in the home and the servant earns his keeping in the house. The slave works out in the fields and the slave has no belonging in the home. 

But the son has a permanent place in the house and the son has belonging in the home. He has a right to the inheritance of the family and has a room in the house where he lays his head to rest. For a son is born for the love of the family and a servant hired for the work that he does. For the child of the house receives the most love and the servant the least. What is a house of a thousand servants and no child but a house built with four walls and no love? 

The god you serve does not call you sons because he has no love for you. For even a master who loves his slave calls him ‘my son’ and a father who hates his son resists calling him ‘son’. For the one who says ‘god is a master of slaves’ there is no salvation in him for he has no belonging in the home. 

Was it not written by Moses ‘You are the sons of the Lord your God’? How can you then call me a liar when I tell you God calls his people sons? But you insist he calls you slaves even though he brought you out of slavery from Egypt. You do not believe in what Moses has said but you believe your prophet speaks for Moses. Who then is Moses?

مسألة العدل الإلهي في الإسلام: الوحي وحرية الضمير وعدم المساواة الدينية

كيف يمكن التوفيق بين الاعتقاد الإسلامي بأن الله عليم بكل شيء، وقادر على كل شيء، ومتصف بالعدل المطلق، وبين الأحكام الدينية والقانونية التي تقضي بمعاملة الناس معاملة مختلفة تبعًا لدينهم ومعتقداتهم؟

وفقًا للعقيدة الإسلامية، أرسل الله أنبياء، منهم إبراهيم وموسى وعيسى، لإبلاغ البشر إرادته. وفي الوقت نفسه، يؤكد الإسلام أن القرآن هو الوحي الأخير، وأن محمدًا هو خاتم الأنبياء.

ومن هنا يبرز السؤال الأول: إذا كان الله يعلم مسبقًا طبيعة البشر والظروف المستقبلية والنتائج المحتملة لوحيه، فلماذا أُبلغت إرادته من خلال أنبياء مختلفين، بينما انتهى الأمر بالبشرية إلى وجود أديان متعددة يدّعي كل منها امتلاك الحقيقة، وكثيرًا ما تتعارض تعاليمها فيما بينها؟ ولماذا لم يكن بإمكان الله، وهو القادر على كل شيء، أن يبيّن إرادته بطريقة تتيح لكل إنسان فرصة عادلة وكافية للتعرّف على الحقيقة؟

وتزداد هذه المسألة تعقيدًا لأن الإنسان لا يختار ظروف ولادته. فقد ينشأ شخص في تقليد مسيحي أو يهودي، ويؤمن بالله بإخلاص، ويصلّي ويحاول أن يعيش حياة أخلاقية، معتقدًا أن دينه هو الدين الحق. ومع ذلك، لا يقرّ الإسلام بصحة جميع معتقدات هذين الدينين، ويدعو إلى قبول وحيه الأخير. فإلى أي مدى يكون من العدل محاسبة الإنسان على معتقداته الدينية، إذا كان الله يعلم البيئة التي وُلد فيها، والفرص التي أُتيحت له للبحث عن الحقيقة؟

أما السؤال الثاني فيتعلق بحكم محدد ورد في القرآن. ففي سورة التوبة، الآية 29، ذُكرت الجزية، وهي ضريبة كانت تُفرض، في إطار الفقه الإسلامي الكلاسيكي، على فئات محددة من غير المسلمين، ومنهم المسيحيون واليهود. وقد أتاح نظام الذمة التاريخي لهم الاحتفاظ بدينهم، لكنه منحهم وضعًا قانونيًا خاصًا ومختلفًا. وبذلك، أثّر الانتماء الديني في الالتزامات المالية والوضع القانوني للإنسان.

وهنا يبرز سؤال جوهري: لماذا ينبغي لشخص يمارس دينه بسلام ولا يرتكب أعمال عنف أن يتحمل عبئًا ماليًا خاصًا بسبب عدم اعتناقه الإسلام؟ وإذا كان الله، وفقًا للعقيدة الإسلامية، قد أرسل أيضًا عيسى وموسى، فلماذا كان ينبغي لأتباع الديانات المرتبطة بهذين النبيين أن يتمتعوا بوضع قانوني مختلف في ظل الحكم الإسلامي؟

إن تفسير الجزية بأنها كانت جزءًا من النظام الاجتماعي السائد في حقبة تاريخية معينة قد يساعد على فهم كيفية عمل هذا النظام، لكنه لا يثبت في حد ذاته عدالته الأخلاقية. وبالمثل، فإن القول إن المسلمين كانت عليهم التزامات مالية أخرى لا يزيل السؤال المتعلق بسبب تحديد فئات مختلفة من المدفوعات والأوضاع القانونية على أساس الانتماء الديني.

أما السؤال الثالث فيتعلق بحرية الضمير. فالقرآن، في سورة البقرة، الآية 256، ينص على أنه «لا إكراه في الدين»، بينما تتضمن سورة التوبة، الآية 29، أمرًا بقتال فئة معينة من أهل الكتاب إلى أن يدفعوا الجزية. وقد وضع الفقهاء المسلمون الكلاسيكيون تفسيرات وطرقًا للتوفيق بين هذين النصين، لكن يبقى السؤال: هل يعني عدم الإكراه مجرد السماح للإنسان بالاحتفاظ بدين آخر ضمن وضع قانوني محدد، أم أنه يقتضي المساواة الدينية والقانونية الكاملة؟

وأخيرًا، تبرز مسألة أخلاقية أوسع نطاقًا: إذا كان الله هو المصدر المطلق للعدل، فما المعيار الذي ينبغي الاستناد إليه لتقييم أحكامه؟ وهل يُعدّ نظامٌ تتفاوت فيه حقوق الأشخاص والتزاماتهم المالية بسبب دينهم، سواء أكان الدين الذي وُلدوا فيه أم الدين الذي اختاروه عن اقتناع، نظامًا عادلًا؟ وإذا كان الجواب هو أن العدل الإلهي يختلف عن التصور البشري للعدل، فكيف يمكن التحقق بصورة مستقلة من أن حكمًا معينًا عادل حقًا، بدلًا من اعتباره عادلًا لمجرد نسبته إلى الله؟

وخلاصة الاعتراض ليست أن وجود أديان متعددة يدحض، في حد ذاته، وجود الله، ولا أن كل مسلم يؤيد عدم المساواة. بل تتمثل في ضرورة تقديم تبرير يوضح كيف يمكن التوفيق بين القول بأن الله عليم بكل شيء، وقادر على كل شيء، ومتصف بالعدل المطلق، وبين تفاوت الظروف التي تتيح للناس البحث عن الحقيقة الدينية، والوضع القانوني الخاص لغير المسلمين، والأحكام التي تثير تساؤلات حول عالمية حرية الضمير.

Firstly you as a finite being can't know what greator Good god(who is a infinite being) can bring out of any situation.Thid would always work unless the other person is using emotional appeals.

There are other reasons why god allows even like:

Free will:God gave us the ability to freely and genuinely do things like love,help others etc.Which came with the downside of people doing evil things in heaven.

Is there free will in heaven

No that is kind of the point tho.After you have repented.God shows his mercy to you and purify you.(Lucifer rebelling was for a greator good though)

Punishing people for their sins'God can punish people for the sins they previously commited(this can be said in the case of baby getting cancer with the parents sins)and to provide justice.

The unfairness of hell?

Many people say that infinite punishment for finite crimes is evil but...

• If you do a crime against a dog that is worse than doing it on a human.And human law, a crime against an ordinary citizen carries a different weight than a crime against a head of state or an infinite sovereign. Because God is infinite, eternal, and infinitely good, any sin committed against Him possesses an objective "infinite weight" or dishonor.

Therefore it's justified when people break his commandments to send them to hell.

Slavery?

Technically this is not a part of "the"god claim but I'll include it anyway.He couldn't have abolished it because then it would have been suppressed(since it would have been revolutionary)by other kings and rulers.Spreading christianity was more important.

Secondly,the bible is progressive of its time when it comes to what it says on the treatment of their slaves.

• Ephesians 6:9: Masters are commanded to treat their slaves with the same respect and sincerity they expect, and to "give up your use of threats," knowing that both master and slave answer to the same impartial Master in heaven.
• Colossians 4:1: Masters are told, "Provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven".

The bible also tells them to not beat the slaves too badly:

Exodus 21:26–27: "An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free for the eye’s sake; and if he knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave, he must let the slave go free for the tooth’s sake.

Also if they escape they are not to be handed back:

Deuteronomy 23:15: Commands that an escaped slave who seeks refuge must not be handed back to their master and is allowed to live freely wherever they choose.

Also much of the servitude described in the Old Testament functioned more like bonded labor or indentured servitude than race-based chattel slavery. Impoverished individuals or debtors could sell their labor to pay off debts or survive.

Many regulations of slavery to biblical laws regarding divorce (e.g., in Matthew 19:8)arguing that God regulated/accommodated an entrenched, deeply fallen ancient cultural reality rather than declaring it an ideal or a moral good.

In the ancient world, slavery was not viewed as a moral evil to be discarded, but as the basic engine of trade, agriculture, domestic life, and government. An immediate, blanket ban would have caused severe economic collapse, starvation, and social chaos in agrarian societies.

In many cases, ancient servitude functioned as a form of debt repayment or a survival mechanism. When people faced extreme poverty or famine, selling their labor for a set period—or becoming a household servant—was an alternative to death.So it was better.

The Bible explicitly condemned the violent acquisition of slaves through kidnapping and human trafficking, prescribing the death penalty: "Whoever steals a man and sells him... shall be put to death" (Exodus 21:16).

these foundational principles—that every human is created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) and possesses inherent moral worth—provided the primary ethical framework that later inspired Christian abolitionists (such as William Wilberforce) to dismantle chattel slavery centuries later.

In 1 Timothy 1:8–10, slave-traders (kidnappers/man-stealers) are listed among the ungodly alongside murderers and lawbreakers.

Rather than issuing a political manifesto to overthrow Rome's legal framework which would have caused immediate violent suppression and economic collapse the early church planted theological and ethical seeds. These values regarding human dignity and the "image of God" (Genesis 1:27) eventually provided the moral framework used by later abolitionists to dismantle slavery.

Well I think it's more than obvious, you would think for such a sacrifice he would selflessly sacrifice himself for the reasons of escaping others damnation whether they had faith in him and his book or not but instead it's no different than it was pre-christ era in the Bible where only those devoted themselves to God in the exact way he mandates and followed his long list of rules got an eventual admittance into heaven, only now just that reward also requires worship and submition to Jesus as their savior all while screwing over people who devote themselves to God through different faiths or those who didn't learn about or comprehended the idea to begin with.

So my topic is can the text of Bible be trusted or not and can we say it to be inerrant and infallible. My argument is that the Bible has textual changes that change the meaning of the text. For example, in septuaginta's (old testament that new testament's writers used) 1 samuel 17:4 told originally Goliath's height to be 4 cubits and a span (Supported by Vaticanus, Origen [hexapla], Hippolytus, Josephus and 4Q51 [qumran scrolls]) but afterwards it was changed to 6 cubits and a span -> the later reading is wrong and it changes how tall Goliath really was. So my question is: how can the Bible be anymore fully trusted and infallible while its text has had readings that were wrong/erroneous and changed/corrupted?

Christians often try to solve the problem by claiming that we could recognize these textual changes by using textual criticism and therefore we could trust the text. However this doesn't work because there are readings that we just can't restore and we have no way to know which reading was original. For example, in luke 10:1 & 10:17 there are two textual variants (70 vs 72) and both readings have very strong evidences to support them -> we have no way to know which one of them was the original reading.

So my question is: How can we fully trust and say that the Bible is fully infallible and inerrant while throughout its history it has had readings that are incorrect/erroneous and its text has been changed the way that changes the meaning of text, but we have no way to reconstruct the whole text and recognize all the changed readings?

And answers like "we have thousands of manuscripts" and "most of the variants are insignificant (like "Jesus Christ" vs "Christ Jesus")" or "the core doctrine (like Jesus is God) hasn't been changed" explanations don't actually answer the question in any way.

Note: I am talking about the majority that believe lgbt is a sin, I know not all sects of Abrahamic Religions believe that

So, I don't believe that lgbt is a sin for you guys, why?

Well one why would god be petty enough to care about your gender or sexual preferences if he has bigger god things to do?

Secondly: most scriptures of you guys were made by ancient people, ancient people said things different than us and most of these are sort of like literal translations so some verses saying lgbt is bad is likely mis readings

Thirdly: ancient people weren't smart, even if these verses do mean it literally, ancient people weren't smart. They literally believed disease came from bad air

Fourthly: if god doesn't want different sexualities then why would he make gay people and etc? It's clearly mentioned multiple times god made you in his image so why would he make a gay person be gay in his image if gayness is bad?

Fifthly: sexuality and gender dysmorphia and etc aren't exactly things one can make magically change or disappear, that's sorta impossible unless you get a lobotomy but lobotomy is definitely a sin

Sixth: even if you use the strawman argument (Which is already debunkable using my older reasons) that being gay or something like that won't let you make babies, there's already millions of babies being born a year, 10% of the population not being able to make babies won't affect it. And plus there are ways to make babies without sex, I am pretty sure there was a woman who was born cause a sperm and egg was put in a petri dish, If that's possible then having sex isn't the only way to have kids

And yeah, but this is heavily leaning to Christianity and a bit of islam so I am not sure if this is that true for Muslims or Jews and etc

Or rather, he knew billions wouldn’t and doesn’t care? Im not really sure what to call it but
the strong points of my argument are this:

1: The bible sucks: The bible not only is wildly inconsistent, full of mistakes and things that just don’t add up, but it literally showcases all of the incomprehensibly evil things god has done. If anything, it should be demotivating people to have faith in him.

2: Lack of evidence: He knew that humans would eventually start to listen to reason and facts (at least some of us anyway) and therefore, leaving the bible as the only evidence of his existence is ineffective for people who think without bias.

3: Intended human diversity: He knew that humans in other parts of the world would worship other gods/no god and has done nothing at all to even challenge their beliefs, rather he just sends them to hell (welcome to religion brother💀)

4: The problem with “free will”: He created a species with free will over themselves and their mind, and considering all of the previous mentioned points, it’s quite obvious that many wouldn’t follow his religion, and he was fully aware of all of this. He knew billions wouldn’t have faith, yet he did nothing to change that.

TLDR/recap: God knew billions wouldn’t have faith in him due to lack of evidence and himself being immoral in immeasurable ways. He has done nothing to change this.

As a result, billions upon billions will now suffer in hell for eternity, all because he didn’t give enough reason to devote your life to him, aside from blind faith and a promise of heaven.

I grew up in a Muslim family and although I am not Muslim anymore I definitely believe in God. I don’t understand how people can say that Christianity and Islam brought rights to the underprivileged at their time with such pride while being misogynistic and homophobic. I used to believe the “love the sinner hate the sin” mindset but that is some bs. You either want someone to be free in their life or you don’t. How can one person believe their way of living or their sexuality is better than any other? No human is better than anyone. I also don’t understand how keeping women in the house and modest helps society progress now. These religions are not as progressive as they once were and if you believe them still you cannot be progressive.

Spending an eternity being in an golden city constantly worshiping god? That sounds weirdly dystopian like 1984 but big brother calls himself jesus

That sounds sad with not much agency and having barely any independence or even a bit of power unlike on earth

And another thing is it's infinite, it's bound to become boring after a thousand years or maybe even in a hundred, you can't decide to reset or reincarnate

And another thing is it's all glorifying god, I don't think your ever able to do fun not so glorifying god things

And it's also just really God's view of what would be a utopia, people can't personalize it to be what they would see as utopia, god decides that which is unfair, it's like going to an ice cream shop but on the menu everything besides strawberry is scribbled, and the reason is the ice cream man says "you'll like strawberry more than mint chocolate chip or chocolate or vanilla or anything else", some people like strawberry but some people don't

And also, happiness exists cause there's sadness, I dunno how to say it like I am wise but, without sadness, happiness isn't as glorious

So The heaven most of you believe sounds almost as depressing as being in hell

Edit: forgot to summerize it, imo as an agnostic, for heaven to be truly fun it shouldn't just be glorifying god and be more of like personalized utopias for one or more people and if you ever get bored you can reincarnate or reset

So I am an agnostic, but I don't believe it's possible based off from I know about Abrahamic people that the afterlife is binary being just heaven or Hell, why? It's heavily flawed cause it views people in a very black and white way saying all people is either good or bad and I find it ridiculous cause..

One: morally grey people. This is directly ignoring morally grey people cause some people are more morally grey than good or bad like me for example. To god I am pretty sure I would be morally grey and this ignores also, atheists, alot of bad people are bad cause they don't know god is real, you can't blame someone for being bad if they don't know their actions have meaning,

Secondly: disabilities, some people are bad because well there's some disabilities that make you aggressive, like I heard once about an autistic kid who hurt and hit his mother, it would be unfair to judge him for not being able to be fully good if he can't, and also in general disabilities slightly impact how someone behaves like for example I am level 1 autistic, it impacts how I am,

And that's why I believe it, I believe that hell and heaven could exist but I believe there should be some sort of purgatory also or a hellvean or both

If god is all loving and smarter than everyone, he should know nuance

Debate me or agree with me. I am up to seeing if my view makes sense or doesn't

EDIT: I am talking about Abrahamic people who believe in the binary afterlife, not Abrahamic people in general

Trying to understand Christianity here and among the hundreds of ridiculous/evil/plain stupid things in the story of Christianity, this is one of the ones don’t understand the most.

The way it’s been explained to me from many different sources and i guess interpretations—
God purposely created a flawed species, full well knowing that billions would eventually go to hell for exercising their free will in the image of their mind which was hardwired to be flawed and immoral, then is disappointed they did exactly what he knew would happen, therefore he sends them to eternal suffering.

??? Like Is that not just plain evil? The more I hear about god the more it feels like the bible could very well be Satan trying to trick humans. I mean why would a moral god order genocide.

According to the bible im going to hell because I have sinned and don’t accept Jesus as my savour but I’m not a bad person, how is that fair to me? My brain was hardwired and molded into a shape that desired to sin, I’m not saying it isn’t my fault but that’s just how the brain works and he knew that, so why did god make me and billions of others to be extremely flawed and guaranteed to not accept him?

John 20:28 NWT

In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

The trinitarian claim is that Thomas said that his God was Jesus just because Thomas said this to Jesus.

In 134 places the Jewish Sopherim (scribes) altered the original Hebrew text from YHWH to ʼAdho·naiʹ. Genesis 19:18 is one place where this happened.

Genesis 19:18-19

Then Lot said to them: “Not there, please, Jehovah! Please, now, your servant has found favor in your eyes and you are showing great kindness\ to me by preserving me* alive,+ but I am not able to flee to the mountainous region because I am afraid that disaster may overtake me and I will die.*

If one applies that same logic on this verse, then Lot said that YHWH are two angels just because Lot said this to the two angels, nonsense.

Morality is obviously subjective based on what words mean:

1. Subjective: A value judgment dependent on a mind to make it; e.g., beauty, humor, disgust.

2. Objective: A fact about the world regardless of the existence of any minds to perceive it; i.e., plate tectonics, gravity, electricity

Morality obviously fits into the former category.

The ONLY reason we debate whether morality is objective or subjective, is because religion claimed it as being commanded by their god. If religion had instead said that humor is commanded by god, we'd be having the same exact debates over subjective vs objective humor, as follows (based on theists' typical arguments trying to defend objective morality):

"If there is no objective humor, then you can never say anything is truly funny."

"If humor isn't objective, then saying Bob is funnier than Pete isn't coherent; you can only say you prefer Bob's jokes to Pete's."

"If humor isn't objective, then you have no right to say which comedian should be featured in the local comedy night over any other comedian."

...and so on for beauty, disgust, taste in music, and everything else we call subjective.

Thus, anybody who says morality is objective, must therefore be saying there is no such thing as anything subjective, since the same exact arguments can be applied to any subjective value judgment.

The idea that without evil, you cannot have free will is highly flawed, and I’m going to present some arguments showing that we can still have free will without evil.

To have free will, you need the ability to choose between good and neutral options. Even without evil, you could still choose to do good or choose not to do good. You could feed the poor or choose not to feed the poor, donate to charity or choose not to donate to charity.

Therefore, we can still have free will without evil. Our goodness would still be meaningful because we wouldn’t be doing good simply because we were programmed to do so. We would be doing good even though we could choose not to. That would be genuine and meaningful goodness.