Continuing to love this season, this is probably my favorite season so far. All I'll say is.. I did not see Dufresne's death via Silver's peg leg coming! Thought Dufresne would be joining the crew maybe, but.. nope.. brutal!

He’s so sassy.

Potential spoilers for Black Sails, including major character backstories and plot developments.

I really love Black Sails. It is my favorite show in the entire world, and I love thinking about it. I am also a devoted listener of the Fathoms Deep podcast. I listened to the episode in question quite some time ago, so I am not entirely sure I remember all the details correctly. I could not find the episode just now, but I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this.

If I remember correctly, Fathoms Deep discussed Thomas, Miranda, and James as potential embodiments of Ethos, Logos, and Pathos, the three concepts from Aristotle's ancient Greek theory of rhetoric that refer to character and credibility, logic and reason, and emotion, respectively. I find this interpretation particularly interesting, not because I think any of them can be reduced to this single concept, but because these three ideas seem to capture something essential about the roles they play in each other's lives.

Thomas represents Ethos through his vision of a better world and his belief that change is possible, without any personal gain in mind. As Miranda puts it, "Great are made great by one thing and one thing only, the relentless pursuit of a better world."

I believe they identified Miranda as Logos, which makes sense to me. In episode XIII, she tries to reason with James and convince him not to pursue their plan any further because it is too dangerous. She appeals to reason, hoping that James might listen to her even when Thomas would not. However, I think she fails to recognize just how emotionally driven James's decisions really are. In fact, I think that, up until the dinner with Alfred Hamilton, even James himself was unaware of just how much his emotions governed his decisions.

If I remember correctly, James is the embodiment of Pathos, which may not be the obvious choice but which also makes a lot of sense to me when you look a little closer. On a superficial level, he might seem like the rational, strategic one. But if you look at his actions more closely, they are ultimately driven by emotion: love, loss, anger, grief.

A truly pivotal decision we see James make is his decision to stand up for Thomas at the dinner table. His choice here is entirely driven by emotion. There is no logic or strategic calculation guiding him in that moment. His defense of Thomas goes against all reason. He knows he is putting his career at risk, and he knows what it means to make an enemy of Alfred Hamilton, as he himself pointed out just hours earlier. And yet, he still stands up for Thomas and openly insults Alfred Hamilton.

James might have spent most of his life trying to keep his emotions in check, but that does not mean they were not driving him all along. His deeply emotional defense of Thomas at the dinner table might be the moment when that becomes impossible to ignore, even for James himself.

What makes the relationship between these three so tragic, in my opinion, is that the three elements depend on one another. Thomas gives Miranda's reason and James's passion a purpose. Once Thomas is gone, Logos and Pathos lose their balance: Miranda's reason can no longer reach James, while James's emotions become increasingly destructive. Without Ethos to give them direction, neither reason nor passion can function as they once did.

To me, this offers an interesting explanation for their relationship, or at least for what we see of it in Season 1.

And I wonder whether the same theory could be applied to other character triangles in the series, such as Silver, Madi, and Flint / Anne, Charles, and Jack / or Jack, Anne, and Max.

I realize that the theory does not fit perfectly, and I am not claiming that the characters can be reduced to these three concepts. Still, I find it a fascinating way to look at their relationships, and I would love to hear what other people think about it!

Even if the crew hated Flint, the chance to finally steal the gold might be enough to convince them to go along with the plan, and the guards might not expect an organized night attack from pirates.

The only series which is giving me the same level of peak and episode endings goosebumps which game of thrones used to do season 1 1-4 eps were slow I know it was for build-up afterwards I am just immersed in this show.

IMO John Silver was made a pirate king by Billy. For John Silver to take on the mantle, and act as though he had earned it just doesn't sit right.

Flint and Silver became friends. As Flint puts it, Silver positioned himself into his circle so that if a time comes when Flint squares off with Silver, he may need to think twice.

But the _degree_ to which their banter was just massaging each other's egos made me think they were going to kiss at some point. From the beginning, their conversations about their darkness, their enjoyment of darkness, i.e., "that thing that exists in you" had the quality of a second underlying conversation taking place underneath. Something like "Yes, you are like me. Become like me. See, this is what it feels like. Come here. Finally a refuge from all this dullness" But after one or two of those, you start thinking who are they fooling. Why do they need so much of the ego massage. It's just not interesting to watch beyond a point. Yes, you both are like-minded. Get over it and spare us.

Side note: I also cannot stand how they get starry eyed when they talk about how nothing is impossible when they both are of the same mind. uhh okay - maybe demonstrate it, first? Most of those things are done by Flint. Silver has the people's loyalty, but those people are pirates! Great pirate kings like Edward Teach are ousted everyday. Terrifying pirates like Vane and wait for it, *Flint* fall out of favor. A phantom is a phantom only as long as no one sees him. Once he's flesh and blood, the illusion simply doesn't hold. They pushed it way too far.

I’m only through the first three eps but I find her to be so intriguing. Wondering if she is the witch referred to as controlling Flint?

In one of the recent posts, a user commented, “A couple of months is not very long to be declaring someone your truest love!” I wanted to respond because I don't think the depth of a relationship can be measured purely by how long two people have been together. But I got a little carried away with my comment. This happens every time Black Sails comes up. This might even be a little long for a post, but I wanted to share my thoughts anyway. :)

According to relational bonding research, it takes roughly 80 to 100 hours of quality shared time to form a close friendship, and 200+ hours to forge a deep, trusting bond. Thomas tells James, “These past few months I have come to trust you.” So they'd spent at least a few months working closely together before their relationship turned romantic. But true love requires far more than physical intimacy, doesn't it? A love built on genuine friendship and partnership can be incredibly strong.

Working toward a shared goal can bring people closer and help them understand each other far more deeply than casual dating ever could. Those months allowed them to see beyond the polite pretenses and romantic games of early relationships. Their connection was rooted in mutual respect, intellectual exchange that challenged and taught them both, and a deep understanding of each other's true selves, beliefs, and ambitions—all of which would eventually converge into a shared vision of a better world.

And we shouldn't overlook their separation. I don't know exactly how much time passed between their first kiss and James's departure for Nassau, or how much time they spent together after his return before Alfred destroyed their lives. But the time apart gave them an opportunity to reflect on their feelings, reconsider the risks, and decide whether their shared dream was still worth pursuing. A fleeting crush or impulsive infatuation fades when you are separated by an ocean for months, but James returned more determined than ever.

There are two more points I'd like to make, so please bear with me.

First, I think we should also be careful about judging an early-18th-century relationship by today's dating norms. Back then, people could spend years pursuing someone they'd fallen for after a brief encounter. Modern dating apps, meanwhile, can create an illusion of endless choice, sometimes making it easier to abandon a connection when it hits an obstacle. Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone, but the context matters.

Second, Thomas wasn't simply someone James loved. James had spent nearly thirty years in a society that treated his background and sexuality as sources of shame. He'd learned to fear and respect the aristocracy, seeing it as a world beyond his reach.

“Someone of your station... son of a carpenter's mate given a chance to socialize with a lord. Hold that position for long enough and you might convince everyone you're something more than you actually are. A gentleman, most civilized.”

‌But Thomas was someone so utterly different from the world James knew that turning away from him must have felt almost impossible.

Thomas challenged James's entire belief system, turned his world upside down, and drew out a deeply suppressed part of James that he'd long feared to acknowledge, helping it blossom into something beautiful.

He welcomed James into a home and a life he'd never known, treated him as an equal, and offered him a relationship free of rigid social formalities or humiliation. With Thomas, James could finally be his whole self, accepted and loved without judgment. For a brief time, he was happy. He felt loved, and he felt safe. Perhaps they felt safer and happier than they truly were, and that made them careless about the dangers surrounding them.

Above all, Thomas shared with James a vision of a better world they could build together, where love, acceptance, and safety wouldn't have to be fleeting. A world where James mattered, where he could make a difference, and where he could finally be himself.

James was brilliant, but Thomas gave that brilliance a meaningful, personal cause. Despite how idealistic their dream seemed, its promise made the danger feel worth facing. James was captivated by the world Thomas made him believe was possible. And ten years later, he still couldn't let that world go.

Unfortunately, much of their romance happened off-screen, but a story's depth can be measured by the wreckage it leaves behind: the ten-year war Flint waged in Thomas's memory, the ‘truest love’ inscription, Miranda's confession about their relationship, and their reunion a decade later.

Hennessey: “A sacred opportunity to right our wrongs.”

“My God, do you know anyone in the world who talks that way?”

James: “I do now, sir.”

This is just something I've found interesting, had to post inspired by the discussion regarding historical Jack Rackham.

The way pirates are portrayed in media you would think these guys were raiding and pirating for decades, and this is also in my opinion how they are portrayed in Black Sails. But the actual truth is that most of the best known pirates were active for like 1-2 years maximum. Edward Teach, who is always portrayed as an older, experienced pirate, was active for two years and was only 35-40 years old when he died. Jack Rackham was a pirate for about two years as well. Anne Bonny and Mary Read were pirates for a few months.

This of course makes perfect sense given how dangerous it was and I expect that a lot of you know this already, but it always messes with me when I read about it. Black Sails does also seem to portray these characters as people who have done pirating for years already, but from a narrative perspective that makes sense, it's what we expect. History is cool is all!

Hope this isn't too off-topic, can be removed if is.

Major detailed spoilers for up to S2E6.

Look, I know that Flint has enough rage in him to fuel 4 full seasons, and he doesn't need another person to be angry on his behalf. HOWEVER!

I was aware going into the show of the "plot twist" that the affair in the Hamilton house is the one between James and Thomas, not (only) James and Miranda. But I just finished XIII, and I am so angry at Thomas and Miranda for the total carelessness they showed in their relationship with James.

Thomas and Miranda clearly had an understanding about their marriage. Whether Miranda had other lovers or only fed those rumors to protect Thomas's reputation, they had a good cover story going. Suddenly, a hot new bombshell enters the villa a hot young officer is assigned to work with Thomas. Thomas and Miranda are both into him, and they figure out he's into them, too. Great! Over the many evenings of philosophy, literature, flirting, and alcohol, they must find out that he comes from very humble beginnings. Other officers mock him as a "son of a carpenter's mate given a chance to socialize with a lord". Miranda visits him at his lodgings, and the only good thing she can say is that his room is "clean". It is evident that James has never enjoyed anything like the wealth, privilege, literature, and freedom that the Hamiltons possess.

I understand why James would be captivated by the Hamilton's freedoms and their philosophies. In addition to being handsome (sic), Thomas is also rich, bright, great at conversation, kind, and, for all intents and purposes, a visionary. Miranda is beautiful, liberated of many social boundaries, clever, well-read, and invariably supportive. When they invite him to their loving bed, what's a boy to do?

But they encourage and expect a lot more from James than to be great conversation and great head. They expect him to join their side and support Thomas against his father. That is, for James to stand up to his married man's rich dad who is bankrolling their whole fucking existence! When James tells Lord Hamilton to GTFO of his own house, Thomas and Miranda regard him with adoration, not absolute horror at what's about to come raining down on them.

The circle of liberal intellectuals that Thomas established in his salon was only as reliable as far as his theories were theoretical. It was ridiculous for Thomas, Miranda OR James to believe that they would garner any kind of support, once the nature of their relationship came to light. The fact that Peter Ashe knew about the affair and offered James and Miranda protection and refuge in Europe was a damn miracle!

And worst of all, Thomas and Miranda HAD to understand, the entire time, that the protections society bestowed upon them would NOT extend to James, who had no lineage nor riches to speak of. Even the rumors of Miranda's "indiscretions" did not rob the Hamiltons of their place in society or make them total pariahs — but James would receive none of that grace. Yes, Thomas was committed to a psych ward with a brutal cover story, and that is unquestionably awful. But James was stripped of his work, his position, his entire life, with no legitimate way to earn an income or build a reputation. Lord Hamilton probably would not have killed his only son... but he would have his lover hanged in a fucking instant, if he weren't afraid of what that would imply.

I understand James is a person with his own free will, and I don't think he was trapped by the Hamiltons somehow. But I think he was seduced — even Miranda remarked on how attractive and breathtaking Thomas can be (and god bless, no accounting for taste there) — and he was seduced irresponsibly. Neither Thomas nor Miranda seem to have given two fucks about James's well-being. And then they dare to act all surprised Pikachu when their scheme is ripped apart! Know no shame, guys, by all means. But pick your fucking battles!

So instead of being a triumph, the reveal of Thomas and James's relationship brought me this immense dread that it was condemning James to a brutal, often unlivable life. Sure, that's one of the thesis statements of the show — a hard but authentic life is better than living a lie. I just don't think it ever should have come to the ultimatum. The Hamiltons had the means to have both (and to give James both!), and they just fucking... toyed with it. So not only did James lose his social standing and his life's work, he also lost the love of his life!!! Fuck, man, I'd be in a murderous rage all the time too.

Anyway. I think the show is great, and Season 2 is miles ahead of Season 1. The parallels between Thomas/James/Miranda and Max/Anne/Jack are fascinating, with the dangerous balance between love and sex and business hanging over everyone's heads at all times. I just think Thomas and Miranda tipped the scale in favor of love farrrrr too much, and I'm deeply resenting them both at this moment for what that did to James.

I’m currently rewatching Our Flag Means Death as well as playing Black Flag Resynced and I’m finding it very interesting the different ways Rackham is portrayed. Black Sails is by far the most flattering, it’s genuinely the only media portrayal of Jack I’ve seen where he isn’t completely insufferable in my personal opinion. Toby Schmitz was also perfectly casted for the role, so it makes sense that any other portrayals would pale in comparison.

I would certainly describe him as that in the first few seasons.

Love this moment

The shocking ship scene and the drama on the island, the disturbing brutality and tension leading to the final scene. So many shades of grey. The world building they did on this show was phenomenal.

Spoilers follow

Of course what made me recoil most was the torture scene of Blackbeard getting dragged across the hull of the ship and being torn to shreds by the barnacles, whilst dipped in salty water, at one point having no lips. We see the depravity that such a war and ongoing conflict can drive people to and beneath Rogers civilized veneer is a man as immoral and sadistic as the pirates, if not more so. Rackham's look towards him with the look of disgust trying to see if his humanity responds r it, then looking away when he realised he is a psycho. Plus BB smiling at the end because he knows he's beaten Rogers and made himself a legend, immortal, and it will inspire the downfall of the English reign of Nassau and brought Rogers down to his level. Revealed him to not be the moral superior he was presenting himself as.

Then we have the Captain on a power trip literally scuppering the plans he's lucky to die because Rogers would probably have had him dragged around the island behind a horse

Max the slippery snake slithers away from death once again but she is getting closer each time. As is the turncoat who failed to pass on Billy's message all that time back

Has anyone seen the first episode of the new series Treasure Island? It’s on MGM+ I think. Just wanted to hear thoughts and get a discussion going.

Just finishing season one and I can’t believe I never saw this when it came out. Absolutely incredible. Thank you reddit for keeping me informed as I watch. Sad that I have heard mgm+ treasure island isn’t good

I've been thinking about the relationship between Black Sails and Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. What if the novel is a sanitized and distorted version of the events depicted in the series?

I had already watched Black Sails when I read the book, and I realized it couldn't be a direct prequel. Many details lined up, but others simply didn't fit.

What struck me most was Silver, who feels much more stereotypical and caricatured in the novel. His constant “yo-ho-ho,” the parrot, and the often didactic dialogue all contribute to portraying pirates as monsters, almost as if it were propaganda.

This got me thinking: what if Black Sails isn't just a deconstruction of Treasure Island, but also a radical retelling of its story? What if the novel presents a distorted version of events, turning pirates into monsters and their lives into legend?

After all, the series constantly explores propaganda and how the way events are told can shape how they're remembered.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that Stevenson intended to write propaganda. Rather, I wonder whether, within the fictional world of Black Sails, his novel could be interpreted as a distorted version of what actually happened.

What do you think? Is this an interesting theory, or am I reading too much into the similarities between the two works?

So this episode has become one of my favorites in the entire series, it's amazing and captivating from start to finish. Flint and Silver and the men, being captured by the maroons. This whole situation is such a pleasant departure from what we've seen in the first two seasons. Such a nice change of pacing and scenery.

The further relationship of Guthrie and Rogers is really interesting. Rogers seemed like someone to hate on when you first meet him. But I'm almost enjoying how intelligent he is, and how he knows how to make all the right moves.

Now this sequence with Vane and his men, creating a diversion with the burning ship while stealthily rowing away from that ship. The burning ship spews fire on the English ship. This episode is just awesome!

Just wanted to say, the depiction of the storm throughout this episode is amazing. It's so grounded and hard-hitting, you feel like you're right in the middle of it. The techniques they used to film these sequences, you feel like you're right in the middle of things and it's amazing. Also, it's awesome seeing more of Ray Stevenson as Blackbeard.

S4 Rogers>>

TLDR: black sails didn’t crack the top 100 💔