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The Phoenix Empire reigns, the Avatar is defeated, the Earth Kingdom falls into disarray. Kuvira rises to power after being tossed aside for so long. Noticing the imbalance in the world. Kuvira attempts to restore peace through any means necessary. The Earth Empire is formed and many join Kuvira's cause in an effort to defeat the Phoenix Empire. Many battles are waged between the 2 remaining empires. Ranging from simple rebellions in Omashu, to full on battles out in the middle of nowhere. Key points are fought in winning the Twin Empires War. Eventually the new Phoenix King and Kuvira come face to face. Armies standing off face to face. Who do you think would win?

Ok, so both have very similar, fierce fighting styles, but Azula wins.

Why Azula Wins

• Lightning Generation: Azula’s lightning is fast, precise, and lethal. Because Ming-Hua conducts electricity through her water arms (just as Mako proved in The Legend of Korra), a direct lightning strike would be a one-shot knockout.

• Evaporative Power: Azula’s high-intensity fireblasts can easily heat and evaporate Ming-Hua's fluid water arms, stripping her of her primary offensive and mobility tools.

• Range and Self-Sufficiency: Azula generates her own fire and lightning instantly, meaning she dominates at both mid-range and long-range without needing an external element. Ming-Hua is heavily reliant on a nearby water source to maintain her water limbs.

• Tactical Mind: Sane Azula is a master strategist, cold-blooded, and analytical, whereas a mentally unstable Azula (like her state during the finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender) would lose her composure and edge.

Kuvira and P'Li face off in a remarkably close matchup, with fan and community consensus generally splitting 50/50 or slightly favoring Kuvira if she can close the distance, though P'Li holds a massive destructive firepower advantage at long range.

Kuvira's Strengths & Advantages

• Precision and Speed: Kuvira is blisteringly fast, hyper-accurate, and uses thin, flexible metal strips to rapidly bind opponents, blind them, or lock up their joints.
• Soft Counter Potential: Her ability to throw swift, pinpoint metal projectiles can disrupt a combustion bender's focus or wrap around P'Li’s third eye before a blast can be charged.
• Environmental Control: In any area featuring metal structures, armor, or debris, Kuvira can dictate the flow of combat and weave tight evasive maneuvers.

P'Li's Strengths & Advantages

• Overwhelming Firepower: As a combustion bender, P'Li possesses explosive, long-range force capable of easily overwhelming high-tier earth and metalbenders like Lin and Suyin Beifong.
• Agility: P'Li is surprisingly nimble and capable of dodging incoming projectile strips for extended periods while tracking her target.
• Lethal Range: If the fight stays at a distance in an open arena with minimal metal, a single clean combustion blast can break through Kuvira's defenses.

The Verdict

• At a distance / open field: P'Li wins due to explosive pressure and raw destructive output.
• Close to mid-range / metal-rich environment: Kuvira wins by closing the gap, denying P'Li the line of sight or timing needed for a combustion shot, and binding her.

Kuvira has a strong edge to win a standard match, though the outcome depends heavily on the environment and available water.

Why Kuvira Has the Advantage

• Precision and Speed: Kuvira excels at combat speed, tactical discipline, and rapid metal strip deployment, allowing her to control spacing and box in opponents.
• Durability and Adaptability: Unlike benders who rely on fragile openings, Kuvira's defensive metal sheets and counter-attacks let her withstand high-offense opponents.
• Neutral or Metal-Heavy Terrains: In urban or structured settings like Republic City or Zaofu with abundant metal and controlled water, Kuvira's steady control allows her to pin or outmaneuver Ming-Hua.

Where Ming-Hua Wins

• Unpredictable Mobility: Ming-Hua’s lack of physical arms means her water/ice tendrils act as hyper-fast, fluid limbs, making her difficult to pin down with standard metal-binding techniques.
• Water-Rich Environments: Near massive bodies of water, waterfalls, or under a full moon, Ming-Hua’s speed and lethal offensive pressure escalate dramatically, overwhelming most grounded fighters.

I just wish prime Kuvira would've fought the dark team avatar.

In a fight between the Beifong sisters from The Legend of Korra, Lin Beifong generally wins in a straight-up combat scenario, though Suyin Beifong has a strong advantage in technical metalbending and agility.

Lin Beifong

Combat Style: Aggressive, direct, and built for tactical warfare.

• Strengths: Superior combat experience (as a long-serving police chief), higher durability, stronger brute-force earthbending, and relentless stamina.

• Weaknesses: Can be hot-headed or emotionally reactive in a fight.

Suyin Beifong

• Combat Style: Fluid, artistic, evasive, and acrobatic.

• Strengths: Refined, high-precision metalbending (such as shaping armor or medical extraction), great mobility, and quick dodging skills.

• Weaknesses: Less frontline combat experience compared to Lin.

The Verdict • In their prime or a standard deathmatch: Lin wins a slight majority (roughly 6 out of 10 times) because her tough, frontline fighting style and combat durability outlast Suyin's evasive finesse. • In the show (Zaofu): Suyin won their Book 3 spar, though Lin was physically exhausted, stressed, and fell unconscious immediately after the match.

never really see these two in vs battles and they were both avatar mentors in a way who takes it

Location: Kyoshi island

Personally I'm kinda stuck myself but I was leaning jianzhu for the power advantage but TBH tenzin is no slouch in that department shown with his feats against mecha tanks and has really good mobility aswell. Its weird because even though jianzhu is clearly strong he has very few actual combat feats at least against real opponents

Location is South Pole and it’s nighttime (no full moon though). And it’s a battle to death.

Some of these rankings are quite debatable so comment your own rankings. I am taking ito account feats, statements, and to an extent assassumptions about certain characters (for e.g Gyatso)

Waterbending: Avatars

1. Katara:
2. Amon
3. Yakone
4. Tarrlok
5. Unalaq (Base, not DA form)/Korra

Waterbending: No Avatars

1. Katara
2. Amon
3. Yakone
4. Tarrlok
5. Unalaq

HM: Kuruk, Roku, Ming Hua, Pakku, Kya, Hama, Tonraq (if theres others i forgot then lemme know)

Air: Avatars

1. Yangchen/Tagah
2. Aang
3. Kelsang (I feel he could be tied with aang if he had more material. The one feat he has alone puts him here imo)/Sonam (Shes mainly here off assumption. If we had some actual material for her airbending, she'd prob be tied with aang or something. But for now i'll leave her here)
4. Zaheer
5. Gyatso (assumed, if he had more material, simialr to Kelsang, i'd assume he'd be tied with tenzin if not higher but for now im leavin him at 5)/Jinora (I might change this to just be Jinora on her own later idk)

Air: No Avatars

1. Tagah
2. Kelsang
3. Tenzin
4. Zaheer
5. Gyatso/Jinora (same as before)

HM: Wan (being able to push back a small army of darkened spriit with a single air vortex amongst other things, such as the cloud thing which weirdly only airbenders from that era have ever done. Iw anted to put Wan at 5 actually but since Zaheer has flight i gave him 5th), Kai, opal, Meelo, Ikki (If i missed anyone lemme know)

Earth: Avatar

1. Toph
2. Bumi/Kyoshi
3. Yun/Kuruk (Mainly cause of the statement about Kuruks earthbending. In terms of actual feats, he would not be here)
4. Jianzhu
5. Roku (I feel like putting him 4th based purely off feats, aka his feats when battling the volcano, and also his feat when he showcased the results of all his training, where he truend a bunch of sand into grand earth columns or whtv their called. The pure power and scale alone are among the best earthebnding feats we have seen tbh)

Earth: No Avatar

1. Toph
2. Bumi
3. Yun
4. Jianzhu
5. Ghazan/Kuvira (Idk what to do, so im putting them both at 5th)/Oma (i didnt rlly know where to put her. Based off the legend and aangs retelling, id assume the display of earthebding she performed was grand and highly impressive but thing is we dont fully know exactly how impressive. And since thats the only feat we have of hers im putting her here, for now)

HM: Kyoshi (Was gonna put her at 5th with Roku but I just wasnt sure), Hundun (now technically I could just put him at like number 1 since he is still an earthbender + other abilties, but thats not really fair) Lin, Suyin, Dai Li, Bolin, General Fong, Lao ge (ig, idk), Yaling, (again lemme know if I missed anyone)

Fire: Avatar (This was the hardest to rank for me)

1. Ozai/Iroh
2. Movie Zuko
3. Azula
4. Jeong Jeong
5. Pli/CM

Fire: No Avatars

(Same thing. I wanted to fit in Roku or Wan and other avatars somewhere, especially Roku but I dont know where to put them. Roku could maybe go like 4th or 5th or something idk. )

HM: Rangi, Thapa, Mako, Iroh ll, Sozin (He could very likely be n the top 5 if we had more material for him. His 1 feat at the volcano alone where he redirected all the smoke from the lava puts him in the conversation of the top firebenders. Plus when you add in the fact that he went to Wan Shi Tongs library and discoevred firebending techniques and whatnot, that just reinfroces it even more. However due to his lack of material, or atleast from what I currently remember, he is sitting outside the top 5 for now), Hei ran, Xu Ping, Roku, Wan, Kyoshi, Korra

Once again if I forgot to mention some poeple and comment your own rankings

Me personally, I think it would come to a draw, or one of them just barely win. Here's why:

Obviously, Azula's generalized technique is very strong. She is so focused on precision that her flames appear blue (her using two fingers like she's about to bend lightning instead of the traditional fist). She is also a master at jet-stepping, a lightning bender, and the queen when it comes to psychological manipulation. But there's something she's missing. That connection to the original Firebenders and firebending's true meaning. Over time, Firebenders started moving away from their original source and technique. Although she doesn't use her rage to fuel it, and she does use it like an extension of her body, she still uses it for destruction purposes only — which is not what firebending intended to be. This also left the once popular and well-known firebending technique — Flame Redirection, to fade and almost be forgotten over time.

Now Rangi. Obviously, Rangi's feats don't exactly top Azula's, but I think she has an advantage here. Rangi was (obviously) alive years before the war, which means Rangi has that connection that Azula doesn't. Rangi also uses that Flame Redirection technique. So while Azula is dodging Rangi's attacks, Rangi is constantly pulling out the Uno Reverse Card on Azula and sending her attacks right back at her. In general, Rangi is master st redirection and using her opponents' force against them — bending and no bending. Rangi also has Jet-stepping, as she is the inventor of it. She also has her emotionally charged white fire. And believe it or not, white fire is actually more powerful than blue fire. However, in this scenario, Azula's blue fire would be considered stronger because she's constantly using it. Rangi can't exactly just snap her fingers and ✨poof. White fire.✨ No. She has to be locked the fuck in.

Scenario 1: Rangi gets hit by lightning

I feel like it's quite obvious that if Rangi got hit by lightning, she'd be cooked. Not saying that she'd instantly die on the spot, but she'd be absolutely deep-fried. Knowing Azula, she'd probably hit Rangi with some dirty trick right after, and Rangi wouldn't be able to defend herself. Then again, I think it would take a while for this to happen because Rangi is fast.

Scenario 2: Azula gets caught off guard and Rangi hits her with white fire

Not too sure what exactly would catch Azula off guard, but let's just say she did. Rangi is a very disciplined person with insane mental control, so she could generate white fire rather quickly, but not easily. Either way, Azula is probably cooked if she gets hit by Rangi's white fire.

Scenario 3: Draw

They just keep going back-and-forth until they collapse, man. I feel like this is the most likely outcome. These two are not quitters and will throw hands until they drop.

E.g kyoshi earthbending scales to jinazhu or korra waterbending scales above kuvira

2 of the best of all time in their element and IMO avatar levels of power(in base) so who takes it.

Location: tree of time R1 comics Katara vs Pre Fusion Yun R2 Movie katara vs post fusion yun

IMO katara as she's one of the few non avatar characters with more power than him and her defense and mobility are in the same tier as his own (defense probably higher actually) yun is pretty op though what yll think

So for example when aang used fire jets while out of the avatar stage was that amped or during the final fight where in avatar state he overpowered tagah

How many feet/meters is the base of his fire here in this scene?

I've seen some calculations use Ozai's height to scale, but it looks like they scaled Ozai to be much bigger just so you can see him. He looks bigger than the massive trees down below.

It looks like one of the biggest feats in the avatar series.

As earthbenders, they both have a lot of stuff going for them. That’s why I think this would be a good battle matchup.

could azulon beat his father in a fight?

Random thought I had after considering how the avatar would fare in other universes;

Say Jean Grey managed to end up in the avatar world, would she be able to control the avatar? Or would rava’s spirit be able to protect them?

We’ve seen the avatar state block bloodbending, though you could argue that was just the avatar’s waterbending being stronger in the avatar state.

Guess it comes down to whether or not a telepath could control a spirit the same way they could a human. Tbh, I don’t think there’s enough fleshed out about spirits to really make a call either way, it’d probably just come down to whatever is most convenient for the writer.

I am tired. I love discussing who would win, who has strengths and weaknesses, but it feels like we barely get to discuss that.

Instead, arguments get bogged down with poor takes, biased opinions, agendas, and very faulty reasoning that borders on being delusional.

I just want to move past the horribly bad takes so we can move on to real discussions. It feels like we can't have that because 90% of the arguments get bogged down in these aforementioned things.

And the crazy part is, often when I'm arguing with these types, I have multiple people responding telling me I'm dumb and I'm downvoted.

I want to highlight a few examples. I might be a magnet for these.

1. One of the most prolific users on this subreddit, I said that Azula was cunning and able to take down Ba Sing Se through her strategy. They said Azula only captured Ba Sing Se because she offered her body to the guards.

They're still posting and giving their opinion.

1. Right now I'm in another discussion, and I mentioned that Aang beat Tagah in the movie.

Well, that was a problem for several commenters. You see, Aang never beat Tagah, and I'm a liar. And also Aang only got the staff by speed blitzing Tagah, but that doesn't count...

Edit: The user is saying im exaggerating what they're saying and putting words in their mouth, so I'll quote them.

"Aang never beat Tagah when Tagah had the staff, thats a lie. Aang just had a couple of good blows but nothing really overwhelming him until Aang got the staff himself."

"Cope, he only got the staff by speed blitzing him but thats overwhelming him by power alone."

Not sure where I lied!

(Read this one, it might be entertaining)

1. In the same thread, Korra beats prime Aang in the movie because she scales to nuclear because she froze the water on the mech, and the amount of energy it takes to freeze that much water is equal to a nuke, I suppose. Never mind that she's using magic, and this calculation is presuming that she's literally cooling it with energy via the same mechanisms that science uses, instead of magic bending. Apparently she is nuke level. Why does she not throw out nuclear level attacks if she has that much power? Well that's a question.

2. A good amount of people argue that Zuko is stronger than Azula. Which to me is insane, because I'll pull up that Zuko admits he needs help, that Ozai said he needs help taking on Azula, and they will argue til they're blue in the face twisting the words to try and deny that. Then they'll say she had to cheat to beat him, and fail to mention that she was, you know, hallucinating and having a mental break down.

3. The Red Lotus. Still people claim they are the best benders and can take down nearly anyone, just because Zuko said so. This is not being logical. They got taken down by a variety of benders. Tenzin 3v1'd the red lotus and was stalemating them. And he beat Zaheer. So of course they can't individually take down any bender. Yet people reject what the show actually showed and cling to that statement despite the evidence.

4. Last one. Not the most insane one. But a thread with four thousand upvotes saying Tenzin surpassed Aang as an airbender. Here's the response thread.

I have more insane takes, like someone arguing Zaheer is 100x stronger with the power of flight, and saying he wasnt exagerrating, but I'll leave that here. I wish I had a call to action for this rant

azula as of the atla cartoon series

Tbh, I think it’s more or less a draw. If they fought 10 times it’d probably be split 5-5. They’re both highly trained and highly skilled and plenty strong.

Maybe Korra has the edge on strength, maybe her more modern fighting styles are better suited. But I’m not sure either is enough of an advantage to say anything definitive.

grandfather vs grandson.

I really want to know who's stronger. Yes, I know it's 2026 almost gonna be 2027 in a couple months, and this debate has been a thing for a decade, even.

But with the movies that were shown, who actually wins in a fight: Aang vs. Korra, using Prime Aang vs. Korra shown in their respective

While I'm not extremely knowledgeable in scaling ATLA and LOKA, just imo, I think AANG edges out with skill and Avatar State, especially how talented he was as a child as he was able to accomplish all of that as a 12-year-old child, and apparently the movies gave him some buffs.

But in all seriousness, I want to know who's stronger. No hate to either series; I love both, but who actually wins this fight leme know your thoughts and please explain why as well.

they got taken out pretty quickly

I doubt a similar scale attack on waterbenders or earth benders would ever work