r/AdvancedRunning • u/Large_Device_999 • Oct 22 '23
Training Lactate threshold testing-worth it?
Has anyone had this done? Im considering it but not sure if it’s worth the time and expense.
Context: early 40s F runner typical mileage 60-70mpw but have been through several injuries. I have a coach but I am currently building mileage after my last injury and will not be back with them until the end of year. I’ve worked on underlying issues and generally I’ve concluded (with help/guidance from experts) the issues are a combo of nutrition and over reaching.
Nutrition is easy to fix (I have an RD helping me) but I do struggle knowing how easy easy days should be, when to really push in workouts vs be more controlled, etc.
Would lactate threshold testing help me?
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u/npavcec Oct 22 '23
You should just plain buy a HR strap and run easy days at <65% Heart Rate Reserve (Karvonen formula) intensity. IMHO, this is the minimum requirement for "how easy should easy days be" for 99% of the runners, from amateurs to the borderline professionals. I leave 1% out because they have access to more sophisticated measurement devices and utilities, but even they do their easy days at hard capped Zone 2 - give or take a few beats.
This sub has recently started "debunking" the whole Z2 "science" a lot, planting a lot of doubt in the system which is a gold standard for 99% of the people and I do not like it. It makes people doubt and start looking for various "shortcuts". We all know there are no shortcuts in the endurance training, period.
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u/KangoorooSoup Oct 22 '23
What’s the counterargument to Z2?? It’s literally just easy running?
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u/TakayamaYoshi Oct 22 '23
I think they people who complain about Z2 is the people who don't know when and how to incorporate Z2 in their training.
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u/SirBruceForsythCBE Oct 22 '23
Run an all out 10k and use a VDOT calculator like this https://vdoto2.com/calculator
For 90% of people this is fine for training paces
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u/rckid13 Oct 22 '23
I have an annual charity 10 mile race that I run every spring, and there's a 10k race I usually run in the fall. These both give me a really good idea of my threshold pace each year because my threshold is always somewhere between these two race paces. My 10k should be significantly faster than threshold, and 10 mile race is always a bit slower than threshold.
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u/whelanbio Oct 22 '23
Probably not worth it. For a reasonably trained person a pace calculator like VDOT is fairly accurate .
I do struggle knowing how easy easy days should be, when to really push in workouts vs be more controlled, etc.
This is an issue of needing to calibrate internal effort better and accept actually listening to your body instead of pushing through stuff you're not supposed to push through. A test will provide an extra data point to help this calibration but ultimately doesn't come anywhere close to solving what is ultimately a skill and being honest with yourself issue.
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Oct 22 '23
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u/Large_Device_999 Oct 22 '23
Thank you for sharing this and so interesting and helpful to know that the lab results vs the field test results are essentially the same!
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u/teckel Oct 22 '23
Doing an actual lactate threshold test really isn't that useful. It's doing it several times to see progress which is helpful. Also, the Garmin lactate threshold is very good. And you can easily do a new lactate threshold test on your Garmin every month or so to see if there's any progress. So if I were you, I'd just do it on my Garmin, and do it as you ramp up your training to track the progress.
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Oct 22 '23
Buy one. I got mine 250 bucks. Test every 6 weeks or so. Pays for itself. Changed my training completely. It takes a few attempts to do it correctly. My experience is a lot of people run too fast based on whatever formula they find on the internet. I would recommend following Alan Couzens on x for a lot of advice. Or you can ask me for my experience.
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u/atoponce Oct 22 '23
Has anyone had this done? Im considering it but not sure if it’s worth the time and expense.
I personally don't think it's worth it. Your lactate threshold is closely aligned with your anaerobic threshold and there are plenty of field tests out there for accurately determining what your anaerobic threshold is. Such as this one my Uphill Athlete.
I do struggle knowing how easy easy days should be
A good rule of thumb I have for easy days is my ability to carry a conversation. If I can talk to a running partner without losing my breath, I'm in the right ballpark.
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u/Dirty_Old_Town Oct 22 '23
I did a lactate threshold test and a VO2 max test at the local university's exercise physiology lab. It was a great experience and I enjoyed it. That said, I really don't use the info I got all that much, but I will likely do it again in a year or two just to compare the numbers.
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u/Whole1Grain Oct 23 '23
Personally for a £125 I would say yes, given you are investing in yourself and could give you the answer to the questions you have.
My reason for a test was due to under performing at races, I kept running a 40:XX at races which should have been 39:XX. After doing some research I flipped to HR running and had a test which gave me my zones.
This was 4 years ago, I now run 34:XX 10k’s and recently a 2:47 marathon.
The price above is what I pay at a local running client, appreciate this can be higher/lower other places.
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u/mssparklemuffins Oct 23 '23
I don’t think it’s worth it, because the more you train (or the less you train) the numbers you get from that test won’t apply (except max heart rate). Plenty of good advice already, and I’ll echo it - you need to learn the feeling of easy runs and the feeling of workouts. It’s important to be able to have the ability to look into the future and understand how much a run or workout will impact your recovery…. It’s like pacing yourself in a race, but on a much larger scale. My easy runs have a large pace range based on how I feel, total mileage I’m building, and what workouts I know are coming up.
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u/Vegetable-Ad-4554 Oct 23 '23
I don't know that the lactate threshold testing would be that worthwhile in your case. It's more of an evolving thing, it'd probably be more useful to have your own tester and test at the road side or to get it tested a few times, maybe every few months to see how your fitness is progressing? For much cheaper you could run a 5k time trial and base your pacing off that.
Maybe if you were concerned that you were underdeveloped aerobically from running your workouts too fast? But still you'd want to monitor progress over time vs doing a one off.
If you struggle with running too fast on easy days, maybe try to find a slower friend and run their pace 1-2 days a week. Or tell yourself that you're saving yourself for your next workout. Switching to time based helps me too to be in an easier mindset.
For workouts, definitely ask your coach about feel and how much you should have in the tank at the end of the workout. I'll usually hold back when I'm getting back to formal workouts, at least for a few weeks, just to let the tissues adapt.
Generally though I find frequent injuries is a nutrition issue so if you improve that (and get adequate sleep) you should find you recover a lot faster anyway.
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u/MichaelV27 Oct 22 '23
You almost can't go too easy. If you are trying to figure out the fastest you can go and still be easy, then you have the wrong mindset about it.
Secondly, easy is an effort and not a pace. And effort changes day to day because it's influenced by many things like the weather, time of day, amount of sleep, stress level, what you ate, etc.
Point is, you don't need to dial in an easy pace. You need to learn how easy is easy enough based on effort.