r/SuccessionTV • u/LoretiTV CEO • Dec 06 '21
Discussion Succession - 3x08 "Chiantishire" - Post-Episode Discussion
Season 3 Episode 8: Chiantishire
Aired: December 5, 2021
Synopsis: After a tense board meeting to discuss acquisition of Matsson's GoJo, Roman shares his suspicions about their mother's new beau with Shiv. As a luxe family wedding gets underway in Italy, Gerri draws a line in the sand with Roman, the Waystar team grows increasingly concerned about Matsson's rogue tweets, and Shiv and Caroline have a heart-to-heart, of sorts.
Directed by: Mark Mylod
Written by: Jesse Armstrong
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u/Rinne4Vezina Dec 06 '21
I had no idea what was going to happen tonight, but Roman sending Logan a dick pic was nowhere in the realm of possibilities.
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u/peatoast Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
Roman should get an Emmy for his reaction after realizing his mistake. He looked like he wanted to melt. Lol
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Dec 06 '21
Kieran has a knack for using his body to convey shame, fear, discomfort & embarrassment. And it almost always happens when Roman is being humiliated by his father. The way he expresses underlying childhood trauma in his body language is pretty amazing.
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u/ScribblingOff87 Dec 06 '21
When Logans phone beeped I said "FUCK!!!".
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u/schleddit Dec 06 '21
Roman's face of pure despair after realising what has just occurred. Holy shit.
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u/StephenKingly Dec 06 '21
They set it up so well. because Geri had earlier told Roman to stop sending her dick pics, I really thought she’d receive it and that would create a moment.
Didn’t in a million years think he’d accidentally send it to Logan of all people. I literally gasped when it happened.
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u/eobardthawne42 Dec 06 '21
I love that everyone was speculating a suicide or a murder and the big dramatic climax ended up being literal dick pics (and it was still dramatically satisfying and has huge consequences).
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u/Disulfidebond007 Dec 06 '21
And Shiv trying to bury Roman via sexual harassment and Logan potentially firing Gerry
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u/johnnguyening Dec 06 '21
I can’t believe that Connor proposing to Willa at his stepmom’s wedding was like the 3rd cringiest thing in the episode 💀
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u/Mikesgt Dec 06 '21
Willa wants nothing to do with it either. She is trying to find a way out of it.
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u/Iamnoone_ Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
Literally moments before the proposal I was thinking back to how at first Willa didn’t seem into her arrangement with Connor at all but that she’s clearly gotten comfortable with her life with him and they seem like actual partners now.. thennnnnnn
Edit: typo
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u/theshnig Dec 06 '21
She doesn't want to be made. I can get it, but she's stoked the fire on Connor's Presidential delusions.
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u/WildMajesticUnicorn Dec 06 '21
A way out of the engagement, but it's interesting that when it was unclear where Connor was going with his speech she suggested going back underground. She wasn't looking to get away from Connor completely when it sounded like maybe he needed to break-up with her to avoid scrutiny.
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u/SerDire Dec 06 '21
Roman making sexual remarks about his parents, siblings and coworkers is #1 by default in every episode. There’s something deeper right? Logan directly asked him if he’s fucked up
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u/GoldandBlue Dec 06 '21
Seriously did someone molest him growing up? Who? His parents certainly didn't pay him any attention
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u/Moragu Dec 06 '21
And then insisting she said yes so that he could smile and not feel weird. We all feel weird Conner, you started this!
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u/CrankyYoungCat Dec 06 '21
She looked kind of disappointed hearing their relationship would end and then once he proposed you could tell there was a like "can we go back to when I thought you were going to break up with me" feeling
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u/Brvndonkc Dec 06 '21
Shiv and Kendall really captured the awkwardness of conference calls lmao
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u/Far-Sound-9040 Dec 06 '21
I also appreciated Frank pressing his hand to his ear struggling to hear properly on the Zoom call later on.
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u/mbanks1230 Dec 06 '21
Lmao Greg’s pickup game is somehow worse than anything I could imagine.
“Is that the time?”
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u/Dwychwder Dec 06 '21
Just checking my $40k watch here. Wow, it's so late!
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Dec 06 '21
I mean he better put that watch to use considering all he went through to have to buy it lol
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u/AlonsoFerrari8 Dec 06 '21
Yeah, like the guy with the 40 thousand dollar watch is going to know what time it is. Come on!
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u/GoldandBlue Dec 06 '21
Is thatnbetter or worse than the "M'lady" shit he pulled last week?
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u/shindigmachine Dec 06 '21
Every time you look at it it tells you exactly how rich you are.
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u/Scooter-Jones Dec 06 '21
Greg trying to pick up royalty with his broken watch is just about the most Greg thing ever.
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u/itsallgoodman2002 Dec 06 '21
What the heck did he say to the other girl about the yogurt “it’s a stomach settling treat” or something. I lol’d at that.
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u/KrillinDBZ363 Dec 06 '21
Ok at this point Greg is just an older version of Nicholas Braun’s character from the Disney movie Prom haha. Like this is literally the same energy.
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u/GruxKing Dec 06 '21
I’m not a radical feminist but I don’t think you should fire Gerri because I sent her dick pics
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u/Hera_C Dec 06 '21
Logan being disgusted by Roman and Gerri-who’s-a-million-years-old, but…Kerry and Logan?
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u/aznednacni Dec 06 '21
Not to be a pedantic dipshit, but I just thought the phrasing was so genius, something like "...we should not fire her for receiving pictures of my dick"
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u/Mikesgt Dec 06 '21
How the hell is it that she is on the chopping block when it was Roman that fucked up? That gets me kinda pissed honestly
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Dec 06 '21
I think Logan views her as expendable. Being put in as faux CEO during the storm. Roman and Shiv are the only two in connection for the throne imo. He just took a big L though. Haha
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u/karensPA Dec 06 '21
Did you miss the part with the rampant misogyny and sexual assault this family is fine with?
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u/GatorMyHeart Dec 06 '21
It’s so gross but so perfect for this family with a misogny image issue already. They don’t even see it’s this in real time. She will be ostracized and shamed and used as a pawn. And Father Time calling HER “a million years old?” Sir you’ve almost died like three times.
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u/pizzamama6 Dec 06 '21
The look on Roman’s face when Logan stormed out of the board room - I can’t handle how amazing that acting was.
And the brutal convo with Shiv and her mom… Shiv is so awful but you can see why.
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u/Crovasio Dec 06 '21
Yup, that conversation was dark. I wonder what Caroline meant by "you were truly horrible".
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u/Revolutionary_Tea_55 Dec 06 '21
I bet there is truth to Caroline’s pain, and yet mostly projecting how Logan treated her onto poor young Shiv, who around 10-13, was likely a troubled and prob snooty tween— but she looks and acts like Logan so Caroline took things out on her, and couldn’t handle when Shiv lashed out. It’s heartbreaking because no matter what, especially how Shiv remembers it, she was a little girl who needed her mom. But her mom couldn’t take it. Just like in the present she can’t deal with their lives. But I do believe there was love and complexity and her thinking in some ways she “did the right thing” or maybe thinking she couldn’t have stopped Logan no matter what. But part of her also couldn’t handle Shiv and the boys, which she basically admits. I don’t think Shiv was a childhood sociopath or anything. I think she was hormonal, needy, traumatized, little, and mirroring what her parents and siblings showed her. And it’s heartbreaking that she was punished for it as a child, and now she’s full Logan.
The way her mom claims she was 13 and Shiv remembers the time as being younger, whatever the truth is, it reminds me of like how police and the media label black kids/teens as being adults or young adults to justify feeling threatened by them and why they react with violence and prejudice.
Maybe Shiv was 13 when custody went to her dad, maybe not, but Shiv sees how she was treated as a little girl and Caroline sees Shiv as some big bad wolf— as fully grown and capable of abusing her emotionally just as Logan did.
So sad that Shiv then goes and treats Tom the same
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Dec 08 '21
I think what that line was meant to show us is how truly horrible and emotionally-unfit Caroline was as a mother.
"You were horrible" / "I was 13..." / "Yes and you knew how to twist the knife". To me it shows how comically out-of-touch selfish and narcissist Caroline is. We have seen well how horrible Shiv's dad treated her (and the others), but to see how her mom is her own special brand of fucked up adds new info. Adding more info is how Caroline seems harder on Shiv than her other children, because it was clear from this conversation Caroline actually felt *owed* something by her own preteen child.
So unless Shiv was torturing cats at age 13, Caroline's statement is not meant to make us wonder about Shiv's behaviour or nature but instead reveal the unique and constant abuse Shiv faced. It made narrative sense to me that immediately after this scene, we Shiv retaliate quite viciously against people close to her: Tom and Gerri.
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u/Romulus3799 Dec 06 '21
Kieran Culkin OWNED this episode. I'm sure he's gonna submit it for his Emmy nom
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u/HangryBeaver Dec 06 '21
Adults who speak about children’s actions as if they are also adults are hella twisted.
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u/Legitimate-Focus9870 Dec 06 '21
Kieran should easily get another Emmy nod this season. He’s been great all year and that face was perfect.
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u/zevelaceade Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
To me it was like that frozen "oh fuck" moment where you can't really process what happened yet and you're stewing in your fuck-up, maybe gathering strength to compose yourself.
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u/Whole_Imagination513 Dec 06 '21
Kendall is basically when you're stuck in Hell and your father is the Devil
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u/rosa_sparkz Dec 06 '21
THIS. I think he's realized he's stuck before, but this time he's finally realized that becoming the Devil ain't it...
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u/Ok-Caregiver-1476 Dec 06 '21
I don’t get how he’s stuck. Cash out or don’t cash out, if he’s worth $2 billion then the interest alone or loans he can take out against the stock give him the power to walk away. He has the same options as Logan’s brother.
He doesn’t need a buyout, he just needs to walk away and live off of the massive wealth. His father can’t last for many more years so why ruin your heirs future by cashing out?
Makes no sense.
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u/Clariana Dec 06 '21
Kendall needs to recognise, as Logan pointed out to him, that he's evil too. Until he does that, until he stops projecting all his evil on dad, he's not escaping.
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u/Whole_Imagination513 Dec 06 '21
Kendall is certainly guilty of everything you've mentioned. I think it's why his "good guy, I stand up for all the people, I will take the Big Bad down" was a failure this season. Nothing about it was authentic for him. It was cartoonish. It wasn't him. Everyone knew this. Similar to how Logan will never take any responsibility for how the way his children are now, Kendall hasn't yet taken any responsibility for his actions. Rather than making the right, necessary changes. It's easier to blame Logan, which isn't too hard, for everything bad.
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u/cjdennis29 Dec 07 '21
when you're stuck in Hell and your father is the Devil
basically what it's like having toxic parents
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u/PrinceAdelin Jan 02 '22
Kendall still has the ticking time bomb on Logan. ....That Logan and his minder covered up the death of the boy. That's the one piece of the jigsaw that can bring Logan down and Kendall was about to use it when Tom waltzes in after knifing the lot of them.
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u/jmandell42 Dec 06 '21
Of all the fucked up things Logan has done forcing his grandson to be a poison taster in front of Ken has to up be there at the top
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u/jonahhill_methwatch Dec 06 '21
"You think Dad will send poisoned donuts to his grandchildren?" Well...
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u/pbratt Dec 06 '21
I think Logan 100% knew there was no risk, but the fact that Ken told the waiter "that one is his" was clearly Ken trying to cast doubt/make a bad joke. So Logan responded with a "joke" of his own. I don't think either would ever seriously think of poison, but the best they are willing to do is pretend as if they did
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u/ThenOwl9 Dec 06 '21
I don't think it was a joke. I think Kendall genuinely knew that one had the doctor-approved food option for Logan.
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u/innerbootes Dec 06 '21
I thought they made some chit chat about Logan’s dietary restrictions and that’s what that was all about. But it would not me the first time I misread a scene, so I’m not sure.
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Dec 06 '21
He knew it wasn't poisoned. But the accusation plus using his child would put Kendall into a nose dive.
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u/bluntbutnottoo Dec 06 '21
What the fuck was that?
I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down for this comment. Just goes to show how insane this episode was, that something like THAT got lost in the midst.
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Dec 06 '21
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u/ItziBitzispider Dec 06 '21
Of course Logan wants his kids close. He needs to humiliate people to feel powefull, just like his ex wife explain. And because Kendall is the only one who has challenged him so far he wants to humiliate him the most. That’s how narcisists work.
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u/nurdle Dec 07 '21
Can we talk about the sheer magnificence of this scene? I’ve never seen a better dialogue and acting in my life. Logan’s line about what he “knows about the world” makes you wonder what happened to him that turned him into a monster…probably the same things he’s done to his own kids. And Jeremy’s performance - raw, brave, and nuanced.
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u/VictorBlimpmuscle Dec 06 '21
”Maxim had an idea…which is…will you make me…the most happiest man…slash most bulletproof candidate in the world?”
That was the most Connor-esque proposal that a proposal could be.
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u/HanzJWermhat Dec 06 '21
She’s going to say yes, and hate every second of it, which is good for us because Conor cringe is a fine delicacy
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u/Amarimclovin Dec 06 '21
Making me wait is kinda unromantic.. uh ya think Connor? This whole relationships is kinda unromantic lol
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u/Scooter-Jones Dec 06 '21
I like to think that Willa is still running around somewhere "thinking about it".
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u/SerDire Dec 06 '21
What angle is the show going with Connor and his political ambitions? I figured that died when they selected the Republican president. Is it just a side hobby or is there more still there?
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u/doodleshitbagfart Dec 06 '21
No way they go with him winning. Maybe conner plays spoiler like he said in the last episode. Though I really do not understand where their relationship is headed in the context of the whole show.
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Dec 06 '21
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u/SuperDoofusParade Dec 06 '21
I think Connor is being really naive about this. It’s not like the press is gonna say “oh well, they’re engaged” and not do background on her.
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u/Brvndonkc Dec 06 '21
“He never saw anything he loved that he didn’t want to kick it, just to see if it would come back.”The show in a nutshell.
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u/WildMajesticUnicorn Dec 06 '21
And Shiv hears that and thinks, 'he's just kicking me and I should go running back to him.'
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u/ragnarockette Dec 06 '21
And she goes to kick her own dog, that she knows will come running back.
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u/LittleLisaCan Dec 06 '21
And kicks Tom to perpetuate the cycle. Like Father, like daughter
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u/SealBachelor Dec 06 '21
“He can kick me as much as he wants.” Shiv! No! Not the takeaway!
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u/asarova89 Dec 06 '21
this line took my breath away because it was enough for her to not want dogs with Logan, but not enough to stop her from having human children with him. and to hear her say it out loud, that she knew logan to be an abusive little prick who would abuse anything he cared about and still decided kids would be fine. after she JUST said she gave him custody of their children. just absolutely gobsmacked.
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u/swans183 Dec 07 '21
Then admitting she shouldn’t have had kids. She’s not wrong, not at all.
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u/freddyisarat Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21
the telling-ness of that sentence was heartbreaking. she's an awful mother who throughout the series, enjoys verbally punishing her children.
she clearly holds a lot of resentment ("i don't think i've ever won a single battle in my whole life") toward logan/life and takes it out on her own children. and i understand that she feels offended, like her kids "chose their father over her" when they were young, but fails to understand that she was a grown adult and they were not.
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u/charcuteriefan Dec 06 '21
That’s exactly why Logan looked upset at the dinner with Ken, he didn’t want play his games anymore
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u/HalcyonRye Dec 06 '21
The Roy kids are just raw reaction. Her mom implies that Shiv wouldn’t be a good mother and says the kick the dog thing, and Shiv immediately wants to have a baby with Tom, and kicks him emotionally in the teeth about as hard as you can. Of course by the morning she had distanced herself from a pregnancy, but had barely let up on the kicking.
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u/starshollows Dec 06 '21
Kendall wanted the Bojack guys for his Twitter and he ends up facedown in a pool
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u/leafytimes Dec 06 '21
I think Kendall is really at physical risk in this moment and no one seems to be talking about that? He is clearly passed out with his face underwater!
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u/Mad_broccoli Dec 06 '21
I came here to see if he's dead, but everyone's talking about the dick pic. What the hell?
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u/melrose_place Dec 06 '21
Yea, I’m over here thinking he’s just been killed off and no one is talking about it!
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u/You_deserve_it_ Dec 06 '21
I was wondering the same thing. Or is he mimicking the sensation of drowning, thinking about Logan’s final jab at him about the caterer? The only thing Ken feels he has left is that he’s a good person and his dad takes that away from him by reminding him of the drowning incident.
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u/password-is-taco1 Dec 06 '21
That has to be an intentional allusion to bojack at least, seems too perfect/similar to be coincidental
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Dec 06 '21
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u/knifepar Dec 06 '21
I also kind of saw that as imagery of the kid who owned floating, when they were talking about how many minutes it took, and you could see the bubbles. It was like he was still ruminating on it.
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u/nothingbutnx Dec 06 '21
Forgot that they've basically written Marcia out of the show entirely lol
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u/TimeTimeTickingAway Dec 06 '21
Can't help but feel that parts were cut, or there will be something big next week. It's nice that Hiam got to spend some time in beautiful Tuscan, but not even getting a line of dialogue is odd.
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u/fanfckingtastic Dec 08 '21
Whatever happened to Tabitha? Was looking forward to seeing Roman fuck that relationship up but I guess they made that offscreen.
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u/fuyuhiko413 Dec 13 '21
Ok good I didn't just miss something. I've been wondering what happened to that
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u/anthonybourdainfan Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
I think she’ll make a comeback in some way. The whole hullabaloo around everyone hiding that Logan is fucking his 30-year old assistant is gonna make her really mad.
I think that on some level, Logan resents that she has power over him. When she was gone, he was desperate to get her back. Also, she’s the one person who sees him as human first; she told him to retire for his health because she knows he’s old and sick. He hates that she makes him feel so vulnerable. Sleeping with other women isn’t just about sex, it’s about having a sense of power. Hiding it from Marcia when everyone else knows is part of the power play to him. He wants to make her look stupid because she makes him feel like he’s a person, and he doesn’t want to confront his own mortality/fallibility.
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Dec 06 '21
I bet she will come back to cause Logans downfall. A few episodes ago they pointed out how humiliated she was when Logan casted her aside in season 2 and now he does it again by parading his young assistant around for everyone to see. Also everyone is to preoccupied in the family power struggle to notice her.
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Dec 06 '21
the sex scene between shiv and tom was soul crushing
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u/fit-fil-a Dec 06 '21
Their couple scenes just keep getting worse. My favorite is still the beach scene and idk how they came back from that one
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u/Vamanoscabron Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 08 '21
My god-that scene. "...I wonder if the sad I'd be without you would be less than the sad I get from being with you". Then he fucking eats Logan's chicken
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u/Moragu Dec 06 '21
It's so awful to watch Shiv gaslight Tom in real time. Did Tom ask for the disgusting bedroom talk? He's always made it clear he prefers very tame vanilla type stuff and Shiv just uses sex as a cover to be maliciously honest. "I hate you make a baby with me out of pure spite"
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Dec 06 '21
Yeah I think Shiv just needed to hear herself say the truth that she doesn't love Tom. She got off on it because she finally spoke the truth. Now she's gas lighting Tom by saying he's the one manipulating her. Brutal.
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u/thumbsupgal Dec 06 '21
ODD. That whole scene and the morning conversation after was bizarre. Yet again, My heart really sank for Tom. I think he is so confused on where he is emotionally right now that he is in a perpetual state of shock.
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u/damnatio_memoriae Dec 06 '21
he knows she's wrong for him. he's always known that. i think he has convinced himself it was worth it for whatever it is he thinks it's doing for his career, but it should be obvious to him by now both that it's not worth it and it's not doing much for his career anyway. i suspect once it becomes more clear that logan won't have his influence much longer, he will move on.
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u/IgnoringClass Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
Soul crushing for Tom and soul crushing to see just how much Shiv desperately tries to be her father. She was kicking the thing she loved to see if it would come back again 100%
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u/AudreyLocke Dec 06 '21
It was the first time I boarded the “Greg and Tom should really just run away and live their best lives” bus.
Felt like a damn arrow pierced my heart. Brutal.
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u/turtleboy95 Dec 06 '21
Well I guess Logan is about to find out what it means to negotiate by eggplant…
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u/ThenOwl9 Dec 06 '21
More brilliant writing, was totally foreshadowing on their part that nobody would have fucking guessed would happen in a million badillion years.
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u/Zerometro Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 07 '21
"He never saw anything he loved that he didn’t want to kick it just to see if it would come running back”
Wow Caroline sucks, but Shiv has to know that what she said was true which has to hurt even worse. The thing is that Shiv also treats Tom like that as well because that's how Logan treats her. She doesn't love Tom, but she knows he'll keep coming back no matter how bad she treats him and she relies on that to make herself feel better. Tom needs to gather what little self respect he has left and just leave already.
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Dec 06 '21
When she gets feisty with Tom she says something like "I need to fight, fuck Dad he can kick me as many times as he wants". So she def heard what her mother said, but as you said also models her behavior after him as the major parental influence in her life.
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u/analunalunitalunera Dec 06 '21
She thinks the way to win is to be the last one standing. "See I withstand your abuse the most please love me."
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u/provincetown1234 Dec 06 '21
kick
But also, to keep returning to Logan is another way to reject/ differentiate from her mother.
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u/thebrightspot Dec 06 '21
Thing is, I don't even think Shiv gets it. She cannot admit to vulnerability or flaw in herself, or else the entire image she has built up for herself will crack and break all at once. Logan can hurt her all she wants, she can ruin everything she has for his approval, and she simply can't stop. It's like the exact opposite of Kendall. She doesn't see what she's doing as emotional abuse to Tom, there's no self-awareness. I don't like Tom for my own reasons, but he needs to make good on his instincts from the end of s2 and break up with her.
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u/CuriousMonster9 Dec 06 '21
As Ken told Shiv earlier this season, he's the real her. And he's now gaining self-awareness and she's sliding in deeper.
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u/bowtothehypnotoad Dec 06 '21
Tom and Greg should spin off and create Wambsgans/Hirsch media co.
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u/lanos23 Dec 06 '21
At this point I'm convinced Tom would rather prefer the money, contacts, rich lifestyle and top job from a loveless marriage. Initially he thought he could get both love and money but it didn't turn out like that and that's why he's so miserable. Maybe it's hard for him to leave because of the greed or abuse.
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u/Pale-Confection-6951 Dec 06 '21
I so wanted him to stop and walk away when she said she doesn't love him. She is horrible,and if he stays he is asking for whatever he gets. Sorry.
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Dec 06 '21
I thought this episode couldn't get more psycho-sexually twisted after Roman threatening to make his sister into a sexy secretary and then spanking himself, but then we got to the "sexy playtime" between Shiv and Tom.
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u/Iamnoone_ Dec 06 '21
Imagine your marriage being so unhappy that your bedroom fantasy role play is telling your partner you don’t love them
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u/LumpyUnderpass Dec 06 '21
Uh, I just thought maybe love beads or sexy cheerleader, and then it kind of veered into the whole, you don't love me?
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u/rumors_are_treason Dec 06 '21
the worst was Shiv telling Tom he's not good enough and she doesn't love him and not even registering that either statement might be a surprise
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u/Woewennnnnn Dec 06 '21
Ugh it was so gutting. Poor Tom.
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u/tythousand Dec 06 '21
I hope this episode put to bed the belief by some that Shiv actually loves Tom. Shiv doesn’t love anyone because she doesn’t know what love is. The scene with her mom made that clear. I don’t think any of the Roy siblings know what love is, or at least, know how to express love in a healthy way. They were raised in a loveless, manipulative household and that’s all they know. At least Kendall is finally trying to come to grips with that and find a new path forward. The only reason Shiv suddenly became open to having kids with Tom is because she realized she didn’t want to be like her mother. And even then, she was only able to offer Tom the smallest token of being open to having them.
At the end of the day, Succession is a show about abuse and how power corrupts. Shiv is with Tom because she has power over Tom, and on some level, I think Tom allows her to pretend that she’s a functioning person. But there’s no real love between them. Tom craves it, but she’s unable to offer it
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Dec 06 '21
I get that this life is hard to leave, but Tom has been put through so much. He deserves to escape this twisted lifestyle. That said, Shiv is a 10/10 and that lifestyle probably is pretty hard to dodge.
Great writing and one of the stronger episodes of this season.
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u/MissssVanjie Dec 06 '21
He was even going to bang Laurie. He is an equal opportunity pansexual but he writes checks that his dick can't cash.
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u/iLickBnalAlood Dec 06 '21
gerri has been fairly under-utilised this season in my opinion, so i’m just happy to see her get a big plot point lol
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u/nonliteral Dec 06 '21
i’m just happy to see her get a big plot point
...and watch her somehow be the one who has to pay for it.
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u/StreetAlternative130 Dec 06 '21
Gerri has played it smart though. She has so much upper hand now with those dick picks lmao. Roman just royally fucked up.
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Dec 06 '21
I really don't think leverage was Gerri's plan. She did tell him to stop sending her the pictures.
She can capitalize on it sure but I don't think she went into it with that as her original idea.
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u/wherestherice Dec 06 '21
Yeah… but I hope it’s not leading up to her being absolutely steamrolled by the Roys. I hope Roman goes to bat for her but I’m not holding my breath
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u/mkelley0309 Dec 08 '21
Shiv went after her this episode, forgetting that Gerri is the one who negotiated the settlement with DOJ. Shiv crossing her “a powerful enemy” is maybe going to result in Tom going to jail after all
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u/theeshivy Dec 06 '21
Guys ofc they wouldn't put Kendall in next week's trailer, what would be the purpose of leaving things vague then? He could be dead or not but we shouldn't base it on him not appearing for next week's teaser
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u/totalscrotalimplosio Dec 06 '21
Can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find anyone mentioning the possibility that Kendall just drowned himself in the dumbest possible way. Wading through a sea of dick pic comments to get to this.
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u/prodical Dec 06 '21
I thought it would be the top comment to be fair. I was in disbelief how long his face was underwater and was getting very worried. But I’m like 85% sure he’s alive lol.
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u/Rudy_Nowhere Dec 07 '21
I'm pretty sure ken was passed out. Face down. Nose and mouth submerged. And I don't think he's playing. The ending has me shook.
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u/The_Knight_Is_Dark Dec 07 '21
I knew this would happen the moment i finished the episode, and my first thought when i started reading the comments was "of course everyone's talking about the dick pic instead of the possibility that Kendall might be fucking dead" lol.
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Dec 07 '21
That would be the dumbest thing this show has ever done if THAT was Kendall’s death scene. No chance.
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u/prit- Dec 07 '21
makes me scared that they specifically had the kids go inside so no one will notice
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u/smeldorf Dec 07 '21
And they show Logan comforting Kendall’s son by the pool in the next episode. It would be the most appropriate (and tragic-ish) way for him to go down, quietly, without a fight, just like the kid in the car—even in death, he’d be a disappointment to his family. I honestly think it’s a very appropriate way to kill him off.
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u/SehreensArtLAb Dec 07 '21
I was shook. He passed out and they showed him sliding further and further off the floater until his face was in the water. There was even a subtle shot of him breathing in water while passed out. He was drowning
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u/respected_prophet Dec 07 '21
There is definitely a case to be made for killing off Kendall in the pool. It would be an organic end to his tragic character and another chapter in the "curse of the Roys". There is arguably nowhere else to take the character and the Logan vs Kendall dinner would be such an amazing final scene. Add the huge Jeremy Strong piece the New Yorker did yesterday...
I could see it, is all I'm saying. I think he's alive, but I wouldn't be 10/10 shocked if his story ends here.
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u/SkytheStarhero Dec 06 '21
When that dick pic hit the wrong end of the table I had to pause the show and walk outside.
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u/L3sPau1 Dec 06 '21
Surreal. I unconsciously was saying No, Oh No, aloud in my living room by myself.
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u/Magic_Al42 Dec 06 '21
I don’t recall doing so but my roommates asked if I was yelling at somebody on the phone so…
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u/ElCaminoInTheWest Dec 06 '21
It took a moment to register, but when it did I think I clutched my face and let out a Vader style ‘noooooo’.
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u/allison0512 Dec 06 '21
I don't understand how people laughed at this. I had to hide my face in a pillow.
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u/burrito__supreme Dec 06 '21
SAME i was covering my face and yelling at my husband that i couldn’t take it anymore
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u/jolw4 Dec 06 '21
seeing horrible characters fuck up in such an ironic way is both funny and cathartic for us regular folk doomed to live with consequences of a lifetime of setbacks and it’s maybe even funnier than prototypes in Peep Show because the very lack of consequences just adds that extra layer of irony
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u/Kianna9 Dec 06 '21
Same. I still don't feel like I'm breathing right. It was horrifying.
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u/TeHNyboR Dec 06 '21
I alternated between dying laughing and cringing. Probably woke up my roommate with how hard I was laughing but also wanted to claw my face off with second hand embarrassment. Loved every second, holy shit
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u/Fold0rDie Dec 06 '21
“Don’t open Pandora’s Box. There’s just more dicks in there.”
Roman wasn’t kidding…
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u/SophiaofPrussia Dec 06 '21
Oh my gosh! Roman’s unlocked phone from last episode!? Is that a Pandora’s box of dick pics and problematic texts??
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u/ellamenopea Dec 06 '21
This episode made me tear up on behalf of Tom twice. If she says she doesn't love you to your face, believe her.
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u/fontizmo Dec 06 '21
When she called him manipulative for calling her out, I died a little inside. Narcissism in its purest form.
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u/Khruangbin13 Dec 06 '21
You don’t use the term gaslighting lightly but that was a full blown flamethrower gaslight lol
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u/Monolith0428 Dec 06 '21
That was exactly my reaction. She was gaslighting him because she complained about him manipulating her when she was manipulating him.
I truly hope Tom gets away from Shiv. She used to care for him but she has decided to sacrifice every bit of her humanity to become the next CEO. Tom nailed it when he said "I think I should start listening to what you say to my face in our intimate moments"
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u/Mr_Jek Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
I physically made a noise of frustration when she said that. Shiv’s scenes with Tom’s are brutal. I always have hope she’s gonna turn things around and stick by her values when the family continually fucks her over, but instead she always just uses Tom as a diving board to new lows and emotionally abuses him in the process while expecting him to remain there forever. I don’t think either of them can be fulfilled unless they break up; Shiv being alone might make her realise what she really wants and escape, and Tom needs to get out of there for obvious reasons lmfao.
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Dec 06 '21
Wtf was even happening in that scene? Can anyone explain?
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u/beccamarieb Dec 06 '21 edited Oct 27 '23
mysterious alleged ripe fearless grandiose memorize forgetful steer threatening childlike
this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev→ More replies (5)→ More replies (6)29
u/IgnoringClass Dec 06 '21
It tied back to the mom/daughter talk before. Mom said that Logan has never met something he loved that he wouldn’t kick just to see if it came back. Lo and behold, Shiv in her ongoing quest to be just like her father went and kicked the thing she loved just to see if he came back.
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u/F_For_You Dec 06 '21
That scene was so cringe but Tom/Matthew acted amazingly in it - you see a bit of hesitation and you hope that he will stand up for himself… but then he goes along with it. As it was written..
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u/burnerfor1post Dec 06 '21
Roman had the CEO position in the bag. Then he sends a picture of his dick to his father. Bravo to the writing team on that one.
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u/Scooter-Jones Dec 06 '21
Yeah maybe Roman should have just owned it as a "power move".
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u/Iamnoone_ Dec 06 '21
I was waiting for him to say something like that but he literally crumbled like a little kid whose parent got their report card before they had a chance to hide it.
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u/throwaguey_ Dec 06 '21
When he screamed Roman and startled the crap out of Siobhan. Lol.
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u/LouisaLeigh Dec 06 '21
His facial expressions and the way he look like he was going to cry!
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u/russellzerotohero Dec 06 '21
My thought when that happened was “this is a comedy”
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u/Glorious-Basterd Dec 06 '21
Few television scenes have kept me glued to the screen like Kendall and Logan’s dinner talk, truly intense and brilliantly written.
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Dec 06 '21
I audibly gasped when Logan made Iverson eat his food. That was an absolutely brutal conversation.
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u/Revolutionary_Tea_55 Dec 06 '21
I gasped that Iverson said the mozzarella was only okay!!!
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u/MissssVanjie Dec 06 '21
I held my breath as Logan requested his grandson to be the royal taster.
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u/DrunkenSuperman Dec 06 '21
I feel like Brian Cox gets weirdly overlooked sometimes in this show, just because everyone expects him to be a master, so when he brings it no one is surprised. But man, he has such conviction and presence, when he's arguing for his abilities as a father by saying that he was always there to fix Ken's fuck ups, I was thinking "Oh yeah, good point, he's not so bad!"
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u/bluepenciledpoet Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
Brian Cox is so big a theater legend and veteran actor that I took his performance for granted for too long. Now I think not only he's best actor in the show but also that he makes the show.
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u/shindigmachine Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
It was incredible how actually shaken up Logan looked.
Edit: originally I said Brian Cox not Logan, but it’s only notable because Logan never really shows vulnerability unless he has health issues, I know Cox can act vulnerable lol. Really the skill in that scene was him playing an impenetrable, macho character looking like some deep emotions are leaking through.
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u/Rogue107 Dec 06 '21
I think Logan didn't expect Kendall to take the offer. There is sadness in Logan's face immediately afterwards and it was so well done by Brian Cox. Something was definitely up in his mind because he didn't think it would really happen.
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u/SerDire Dec 06 '21
Kendall was done as soon as his assistant brought up the drowning from season 1. It was a wrap from that moment on
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u/NedthePhoenix Dec 06 '21
Also worth noting in that same conversation, she brings up Rose as someone the podcasters are digging into. That can't be nothing.
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u/murderdocks Dec 06 '21
tom wambsgans is princess diana 😭
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u/Timeimmemorial918 Dec 06 '21
The way I just burst out laughing at this comment but he is 😭😭 our boy deserves better
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u/TheTruckWashChannel Dec 06 '21
It's actually a quote from either Jesse Armstrong or one of the writers. They said it in an interview that Tom's relationship with the family is somewhat inspired by Diana.
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u/OttersEatFish Dec 06 '21
He'll find love in the arms of a dashing retail magnate.
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u/TheBoBiss Dec 06 '21
If Princess Diana used people as furniture instead of being a humanitarian, sure.
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u/murderdocks Dec 06 '21
She intentionally pushed one of her grandmothers down the stairs, that's not too far off from using people as human furniture, LOL
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Dec 06 '21
If he would've just been ok with the situation of the relationship he could be happy. But he fell in love :(
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u/CashBag Dec 06 '21
I expected none of what happened in this episode wow
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u/bag_of_groceries Dec 06 '21
Maybe the most shocking was Greg already trying to move up from Comfrey
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Dec 06 '21
I refuse to believe they are killing Ken, definitely a fakeout. Also Romans dick pic fiasco so far is the funniest way one of the siblings has fucked up their CEO chances
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u/Moragu Dec 06 '21
Logan sure has some nerve. He has been covering up deaths since the 80s but one dic pic to a menopausal lady requires special meetings. Hilarious
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u/dzandman Dec 06 '21
Greg out there trying to salvage his $40k mistake by bagging a Contessa
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Dec 06 '21
Just because it’s HBO, I knew they wouldn’t be able to withhold showing nudity at some point. Admittedly, I did not expect it to be a pic of Romans dick that he sent to his dad.
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u/Woewennnnnn Dec 06 '21
The scene with Shiv and her mom was so very painful to watch, and so well done.
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u/nancepance Dec 06 '21 edited Dec 06 '21
It’s scary how Shiv changed her mind about wanting kids just because her mother said some women are not meant to have kids.
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u/elgrandorado Dec 06 '21
Telling your kids that you never wanted them is probably one of the worst, if not the worst thing you could say to them.
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u/LoretiTV Dec 06 '21
That was a brillaint piece of television. The Kendall/Logan scene was amazing and one of the best scenes of the entire series.