People are saying that the changes makes the dungeon feel like retail, but honestly its even worse.

In m+ atleast has count, so you dont skip every single mob thats not part of a quest and you get rewards at the end of the dungeon.

I have just been part of an absolute demon run and I fear it will only get worse:

I tanked BFD as a Horde Player and when I joined the group asked that we skip as many mobs as possible.(which was fine by me)

But once Inside it turned out with "mobs" they meant anything that was not part of a quest. They got mad when I tried to get the naga boss in the cave and also did not want to pull the murloc boss because "its too much trash and the loot is not worth it"

They then wanted to skip the bridge with the twilight hammers
(we ended up pulling half the bridge and wiping)

And to top it off a dps left after the 2nd to last boss, because the final boss has no quest on horde and had no loot for him...

I hope this was just an exceptionally bad outlier, but I fear it will only get worse.

BFD is a really small dungeon, what are people going to be like in BRD? Will they just quit left and right once they got their quests?

Is anybody even going to run SM GY, since it has no quests?

I was really excited for Forever, but the way theses changes are playing out is really frustrating as a tank player. I will prob just solo quest to 60 if this doesnt change.

As we move along in the beta, one thing is becoming apparent: classic Andys are loud, and they are dominating the conversation. Given that, I thought it would be good to remind Blizzard that they don't speak for all of us.

I have played WoW almost continuously since January 2005, and I agree with a lot of the sentiments shared here and elsewhere about the direction the modern game has gone. While it has its strengths, and is fun in its own way, I am very much looking forward to playing Forever with its focus on vanilla gameplay. I can't wait to be in a WoW game with new zones to explore and no flying mounts.

However, I already played vanilla - 20 years ago! While I have fond memories, I don't miss the blocky SD character models, poorly designed quests, unoptimized gear, and same old zones. Like many players, I enjoy the HD models for PCs and NPCs alike, and I am very much looking forward to the new dungeons, outdoor zones, raids, and PVP progression system (not to mention, the redesigned classes like ret and feral).

So this is my request of the Blizzard devs: While you are carefully listening to the classic purists who insist that everything must be as close as possible to the original game, don't forget the rest of us, who actually enjoy new things. I am here for a classic vibe with HD character models. I would VERY MUCH like to also have the option to see HD models of all the old NPCs, as well, so please consider adding a fully HD toggle to the game, allowing all players to mix & match for themselves.

I played the old game back when it was the new game. I liked it 20 years ago when I had a 480p CRT monitor, and now that I have a modern flatscreen, I like the new art more. In the same way that classic enjoyers get to have an entirely SD experience because they are loud and persistent, I would like to have a fully HD experience when it comes to the look and feel of the character models in the game.

Blizzard - while you're catering to the classic purists, don't forget the rest of us.

I'm glad so many people got the names they wanted but seeing everyone's names has made something abundantly clear and it's exactly why Blizzard should not listen to the average WoW player. These names are god awful but players think they are good. These same people are also posting on Reddit about their great ideas for the game and their demands to Blizzard. The average player is completely clueless, uncreative and absolutely cannot be trusted or listened to.

Today I learned the etiquette of the need / greed mechanics on group looting.

That's right, I've been playing the beta for over a week now and had no idea how the system actually works.

As a new WOW player, I thought "Greed" was a bad thing. I had actually never pressed it because I thought you would steal the item by doing so. I also thought rolling the dice was the most fair thing to do, as it makes everything equal.

Until I had a group absolutely loose their minds on me in a dungeon pickup group last night. It was embarrassing for me to be honest. They were not nice about it at all. But this forced me to read up on it online afterwards.

New players: You should almost always greed (coin symbol) or pass on items. Greed is not a bad thing, it just means its an item you plan to sell. If the item is something specific to your build then you can need on it (dice symbol) which gives you priority. This is an unwritten rule you will not have explained to you by the game. Theoretically if all players play by this method in good faith everyone wins.

Veteran Players: There are a lot of new players like me in this beta. If you have a problem with rookie mistakes, you need to make sure everyone understands the rules before starting a dungeon with randos. "Does everyone understand the Need/Greed Loot system here?" This one quick sentence would solve a lot of headaches deep in dungeons.

Whether you are a returning player or new player, don't be a jerk online. A few days ago before all this happened I looted something a mage needed.

Mage s/ hey can I have that please?

Me s/ sure no problem (trades item)

Mage s/ TY

That's right you can trade most drops right on the spot in Wow: Forever

Just saying, before accusing players of robbing loot, sometimes simply asking them for the item, or even a brief explanation of the unwritten rules in advance goes a loooong way.

PS: I actually don't like this system for a few reasons. That being said, from this point forward I agree to follow this system in good faith for the love of the game.

You’re watching massive world PvP battles thinking “this will be awesome".

It won't be.

You’ll be corpse camped. Jumped at 20% health. Killed landing at flight paths. Your quest giver will be dead and your dungeon group will be waiting while you do your fifth corpse run.

If that sounds fun, roll PvP. Otherwise, don't choose your server based on a streamer's highlight reel.

Go read the old Classic Phase 2 threads. Same hype, followed by “I literally can’t quest.”

That rogue camping you has 12 hours. You have a wife, three jobs, eight children, six dogs and 45 minutes before bed.

And when you come back here to complain, the same people hyping it up will tell you “should’ve rolled PvE.” Or "PvP happened on PvP servers".

Consider this the “should’ve rolled PvE” advice while you still have the choice. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

Peak class design.

I inspect pretty much every paladin I run past, and keep seeing the same thing: 5/5 Benediction.

Not sure where it comes from, maybe vanilla manadepending mentality or guides from major resourses like Icy Veins which runs 5/5 Benediction, Warcraft Tavern calls Benediction one of the “obvious choices”, Wowhead's Seal Twist leveling path puts levels 10–14 straight into it and many more.

But here I am to lead you into light!

Benediction makes sense ONLY when you're standing behind a raid boss, not getting hit and trying to squeeze out more DPS.

But we're not raiding now. We're leveling.

Benediction gives you:

5 points = 10% less mana on instant spells and abilities.

Mana is the problem only when spamming Consecration (20lvl+), but one tier later Holy Conduit gives you:

2 points = 40% less mana on Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath.

5 points for 10%.
2 points for 40%.

Now look at Deflection:

5 points = +5% parry.

In pure avoidance terms, that's roughly 60 Agility worth of dodge at level 30(~100 at level 60).

And parry is better than plain avoidance here because Parry Haste makes your next weapon swing 40% faster. For Ret, that' some nice extra swings.

So once again: while leveling, farming or doing PvP Deflection is better. Benediction may be the better talent for endgame raids only.

Logic:

1. You get teleported to the BG anyway so its not really immersion breaking to be able to queue anywhere in the world

2. Reduced queue times, more people will queue if its more convenient to do so

3. Low level BG won't be as dead. Granted i dont think they will be wildly popular, but i would like to do an odd BG while questing without having to fly back to a major city to queue.

4. Improves world PVP, with pvpers out in the world farming etc instead of stuck afking in org/sw there will be more opportunities for pvp in the open world

Thank you for coming to my TED talk I hope you enjoyed it.

Tell me why you think this is a bad idea

These are not forever sims!

EDIT: I see a lot of people misinterpreting the image and the post. These are OLD SIMS, FROM ERA. I only made this post to show the hyperbole of people overreacting to the 5% hybrid tax claim. Play what you want, don't mind the rankings and just enjoy yourself.

This is the average sims of P6 Naxxramas on vanilla/ERA Servers.

Notice how Shadow priest used to deal 45% of the top dps. Or enhancement/elemental/retribution/balance also low on the old lists.

I wouldn't worry about 5% tax, sweats will remain sweats and you would not have gotten in to their raids anyway. Being 5% worse because of hybrid tax will end up way less of a difference than you think it will be.

Do not worry.

Please, relax, and see what they will come up with. If you watched/listened to their podcast you can see they are very passionate and know what they are doing.

This is just a post to show where we came from, and that the 5% margin is not as bad since it used to be way worse. Just wait and see what happens is what i'm trying to say.

Peace everyone.

When I read "increased to 20%" in the patch notes, I thought SURELY they only meant they were increasing the bonus base regen and not the in-combat regen... IMO it was already the most overpowered warrior racial ability in the game!

Why do WoW's flight paths make zero sense? Does Blizzard actually have a logical reason for how flight paths connect?

I'm truly excited for a lot of you to experience how comfy it can be on RP servers in WoW, I've personally been playing on them since I started with WoW way back as a teenager and I've not regretted a moment of it.

I do have a request though, if anyone who reads this is somebody who'd typically roll on PvP or PvE but are choosing RP as the lesser of two evils - If you're gonna roll on the RP Ruleset, please try and abide by what that means.

Nobody is expected to be in-character at all times, nobody is expected to rp walk everywhere, RP players are gamers too and I assure you 90% of the time I'm gonna be found bunnyhopping around while I quest while shooting the shit in general just like everybody else. The biggest thing is naming, and general behaviour.

If you're coming here, please don't roll up with some meme name, and please respect the people who are choosing to RP. Feel free to watch, hang out, observe, or just ignore and go on with your day, but if you're inclined to spam abilities on top of people having an in-character conversation on your gnome rogue named Ligma Balls, maybe go hang with the roaches instead?

That's all any of us ask. We aren't the overflow ruleset for people who want to dodge less ideal communities, we're a community of our own. You're welcome to play there, just don't make it worse for us, please?

I love how everyone just buffs each other as they run past in the open world. You can be out questing on your own and suddenly you've got a whole bunch of buffs from random players you've crossed paths with.

It's such a small thing, but it really makes the world feel more alive and like everyone's playing together rather than just doing their own thing.

Seriously? On the beta? Come on....

I think a lot of early-level chase items are being nerfed because of how the beta is structured.

Everyone is level-capped, so players have plenty of time to complete long grinds that they would normally skip. As a result, these powerful items are much more common than they would be on live servers.

But once the game launches, how many players are realistically going to stop leveling at 20 to travel across the world collecting 20 books? Certainly not many of the hardcore min-maxers who are rushing to max level.

And that’s exactly why I think these items are good for the game.

They give casual players, who aren’t in a rush to reach max level, something meaningful to work toward. A powerful weapon or item that rewards them for investing time into that part of the game.

The books are just one example. The shaman weapon, hunter bow, and other similar rewards fall into the same category.

If the quest chain or reputation grind takes longer than the item is worth from a pure leveling-efficiency standpoint, min-maxers will naturally skip it. But for someone taking their time and enjoying the journey, it becomes a great goal to pursue.

I think we’re making a mistake balancing these items around a beta environment where everyone is artificially capped and has nothing better to do than grind them. Their popularity in beta isn’t necessarily representative of how common they’ll be at launch.

Not every powerful item needs to be designed around the fastest path to max level. Some should exist simply to make the leveling experience more rewarding.

I have no interest in using transmog, but the game forces me to use it because the old option is no longer available. Could we please bring back the original option and let players choose whether they want to use transmog or not?

In a recent interview with TechRadar Gaming, Blizzard said there are no plans to bring any of the races from retail WoW's expansions to WoW Forever. I'm shocked.

Here's the exact quote from the article.

"'We have no plans to add races from WoW’s expansions at this time,' Blizzard said, meaning fans shouldn't expect new races like Vulpera, Goblins, or Haranir.

And Blizzard's reasoning for avoiding the newer additions to retail WoW? It explained that it wants to build on the original Warcraft game because WoW: Forever essentially exists within its own timeline.

'Our main focus for the game is to build off the foundational lore of Warcraft,' it said. 'This means first and foremost the RTS [real-time strategy ] games, and we’ve hit on this right from the start with our content that picks up after the events of the new Warcraft 3: Forsaken Kingdom campaign.'

'One of the liberating things about this game existing in its own continuity is that we can forge our own path forward and tell stories that serve the world of WoW: Forever first and foremost. It wouldn’t be fair to WoW: Forever and the players who want to see where this world is going for us to spend a ton of time trying to further flesh stories that have already been told extensively in the modern game.'"

This kind of blew my mind, but the more I think about it the more excited I get. I think the chances of getting new highly requested races that aren't in retail just shot up. Races like:

• High Elves (all but confirmed at this point)
• Broken (another potential Alliance Shaman race)
• Ogres (one of the most highly requested races in WoW that has never appeared in retail)
• Furbolgs (yet another potential Alliance Shaman race)
• Forsaken/Undead Elves (probably the longest shot on the list, but I wouldn't be surprised if we got them now)

What do you think about this news? Are there any other races that you think are more likely to come to Forever now that we have been told we won't be getting retail races (or at least that Blizzard isn't planning to bring them to Forever at this point)?

Having played wow since launch I've decided that I want to start this expansion playing I class I have never played. Shaman seems cool and I like alliance so dwarf shaman seems perfect.

However, I unlocked ghost wolf and was like, what's the lore here. Looked it up and it seems to be just because of the frost wolf clan? Which makes sense for horde races but now we're dwarf shamans.

I firmly believe we should have an option to be a different animal, and that animal should be an Alterac valley battle ram.

Give me ghost ram.

Any reason this shouldn't be an option?