r/scifi • u/[deleted] • Sep 13 '12
I just read Ender's Game for the first time and I don't understand why it is considered a classic.
It may be because I read it at 26 instead of when I was in my teens. I get the impression that a lot of people who read the book when they were young identified with Ender because they were also bullied by their peers and mistreated by adults.
I found Ender to be an unlikable and unrealistic character, not because of his extreme intelligence (I've been around precocious children who talked like adults), but rather because he is nearly without fault and always wins at everything. He reminded me of a lot of Wesley from Star Trek: NG.
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u/chenobble Sep 14 '12
I read it for the first time when I was 30.
Thought it was an excellent book with strong characterisation and a fascinating plot.
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u/Jack9 Sep 14 '12
I just read Romeo and Juliet. Some guy wants to fuck some chick. Too much talking. Why is this considered a classic?
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u/BigBadAl Sep 15 '12
Because it's well written by an author who is considered one of the greatest writers of all time (whose plays have been performed more than any other playwright ever and whose writing is considered to have advanced the English language dramatically).
Romeo and Juliet created a new genre, the romantic tragedy, and introduced a new archetype of the forlorn star-crossed lover. It is also the most adapted of Shakespeare's plays and has inspired art, opera, ballet, musicals, films and literature.
This is what makes it a classic.
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Sep 15 '12
Created the romantic tragedy? Brushing up on Greek mythology alone should correct that for you.
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u/Jack9 Sep 15 '12
created a new genre, the romantic tragedy
Nope. We can be reasonably sure the romantic tragedy predates Greek performances. The term "star-crossed" implies the stars (greek interpretation of astrology, interactions of constellations and other heavenly bodies) affect human destiny.
This is what makes it a classic.
So you're just reaffirming that the plot is not the only determining factor, which was obviously my point.
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Sep 17 '12
You miss the OP's point, which judges Card's book on character, not plot. Your rejoinder about Romeo and Juliet presents a different argument and so bears no relation to the OP's question.
In fact, all your comment does is make an obvious point: simplifying an artwork causes it to lose many of its appealing qualities.
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u/Willravel Sep 14 '12
Some people don't like kids. I could see them really enjoying it.
In reality, it's interesting to see a harsh science fiction reality from the perspective of an intelligent child. We, as the reader, understand just how terrible Ender's world is, but Ender, Peter, and Valentine see even the most dark and terrifying things as a game. Yes, sometimes that game is serious, and there are very real consequences in the game, but it's a game none the less. It's this naive understanding of reality that ultimately leads (spoilers ahead) Ender to discover the amazing truth of his situation. No adult could have done what he did.
It's also a really amazing way to look at elementary school. Think about the way Ender's Game is told: it's a smart kid in an environment he doesn't fully understand trying desperately to be normal while existing in a very Lord of the Flies society and all of this for the purpose of preparing him for some unknown, bigger than life future. Wasn't that what first and second grade was like for you? It was for me. I tried to make friends, I had to deal with bullies, I was asked to learn and play games the purpose of which wasn't apparent, and through the experience I eventually grew to have a better understanding both of the purpose of school, good or not, and I learned more about how the world works.
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u/KINGCOCO Sep 14 '12
I read it last year (when I was 26) and loved it. Not the greatest work of fiction ever but enjoyable. I do hear what you are saying about him having no flaws. That annoyed me too. And it gets really absurd in Speaker for the dead. The guy can't ask for a glass of water without blowing someones mind with how awesome he is.
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u/spammeaccount Sep 14 '12
Most people read it when they are 12.
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Sep 14 '12
This. It's about a young, highly gifted boy who's psychologically (and sometimes physically) tortured by both adults and his peers, but overcomes all difficulty through his intellect and will, then kicks everyone's ass in various ways and winds up a hero. This book is simply massive wish fulfillment for protonerds.
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u/zorno Sep 14 '12
Ender's Game won the 1985 Nebula Award for best novel[6] and the 1986 Hugo Award for best novel.
you sound petty. The book might not be the greatest thing ever written, but it won some awards, and is a good book. Saying it is just 'wish fulfillment for protonerds' makes you look like a huge asshole.
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Sep 14 '12
Is there anything wrong with wish fulfillment? Heck no! It doesn't necessarily make for good literature, however.
I'm just trying to explain why a mediocre book is popular with a particular audience. Why do I think it's mediocre? Look around this thread for lots of specific evidence. Arguing against the purported merits of a popular work doesn't make one petty, any more than arguing for said merits.
Also, winning an award is proof of very little. The Nebula and Hugo award winner lists are littered with so-so books. Same goes for every literary award.
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u/zorno Sep 15 '12
You sound petty because you call people who like it protonerds and said it was as bad as twilight. It's absolutely not THAT bad. Go ahead and argue that an award winning book isn't that good, but don't insult anyone who thinks it is a good book. THAT is why you come across as an asshole.
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u/BiznessCasual Sep 14 '12
While I thought it was a good book, I wouldn't consider Ender's Game among my favorites, or even among the greats really. It has some really great ideas, but I just see it almost like science fiction's Lord of the Flies. I tend to lean more towards authors like Roger Zelazny or Gene Wolfe than I do OSC; I'm really into epic and fantastic things, which both of those guys do really well. The Ender books rarely gave me that moment where I put the book down and thought "Woah" before continuing.
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Sep 14 '12
The other major problem with the novel is structural. It started as a short story that got "padded out" to short novel length - and rather clumsily at that. People who read it first when they were nerdy, bullied 13 year olds LOVE it up and down, but other than the basic concept, it's really pretty forgettable...
And it's all downhill from here, too. Card is like the Danielle Steele of sci-fi: the writing is shitastic but fans don't care; they're perfectly happy buying novel after novel telling the same story from the viewpoint of yet another character you don't give a shit about...
→ More replies (7)
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u/gamblekat Sep 14 '12
You need to be fourteen to properly appreciate it. It's an adolescent nerd power fantasy.
For most people, Ender's Game is the only OSC novel they read, because while none of his other books are adolescent power fantasies, they are as badly written as Ender's Game.
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u/BigBadAl Sep 14 '12
Came here to say the same thing almost exactly. 14 is the ideal age to read this and associate with Ender; and the ideal age not to have read enough other SF to appreciate how poor the writing is.
I regularly re-read books in my library and have tried to re-read Ender's Game on seeral occasions, but just cannot get back into it - despite having LOVED it when I was a teenager.
However, I have just lent it to my 14 year old nephew to see if it starts him reading SF. If it does then he'll be getting Dune next - a far better story of a teenager growing up to take on an evil empire.
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u/bellyrunnersix Sep 14 '12 edited Sep 15 '12
I've truly attempted to give OSC a chance to impress me with his writing due to how much people gush over Ender's Game.
I've found one of his books passable and it was Enchantment.
Empire, Ender's Shadow, and Ender's Game were all mediocre. Empire was by far the worst piece of fiction I've ever read and, because of it, I stopped reading Ender's Shadow halfway through. His writing style grates quickly if you pick up on the pattern.
His character self-realization is terrible. It's either non-existent or it goes something like this.
"X, there is something wrong with you," said Y
X thought long and hard about what was wrong with him and realized how he would fix it.
"I'm all better now and that previous somewhat interesting flaw is now corrected," said X.
And it was, that flaw would never again be a concern to the reader because the main character, after all, is always right.
Edit: Hey folks, how about instead of mindless downvoting we get some actual discussion?
I've obviously given OSC a fair shot so, in your opinion, why should I spend more time on his work and what should it be?
I believe that, as fans of sci-fi, everyone can be a little more cogent in assembling a discussion beyond hitting a button.
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u/PanicOffice Sep 14 '12
because people were highly impressionable when they read it as children. Reading a children's book as an adult is a recipe for disaster. I read it when I was 18 and thought it SUCKED! I would have probably loved it when I was 10-12 which is the age it was written for. The series gets better because the books start getting written for an older audience as the original Ender's Game readers grow up.
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u/varangian Sep 14 '12
With you on this. I also started reading it when I was older and it was that rare thing, an sf book that I never finished. Usually, even if something is not quite my thing, I'll finish it because there'll be some element that I find interesting enough to want to know how it turns out. But with EG I got through a few chapters, didn't find anything to grab me - I really can't remember much now but I'm pretty sure I found Ender himself to be irritating rather than interesting, and back it went to the library. I always felt vaguely guilty as every now and then I'd read about it being a classic but luckily OSC started mouthing off on various subjects to demonstrate what an asshole he is and any feeling I should one day get back to it vanished.
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u/stel27 Sep 14 '12
Card is certainly not the best craftsman of prose, and the premise of Ender's Game is certainly not really the most original. If you condense the novel to a sentence and compare it to the short stories of PKD or even Ellison it stands way below almost anything those guys churned out in terms of sheer creativity.
I look at it as an interesting piece of science fiction meant primarily for middle school aged boys. It obviously struck, and continues to strike a chord with new generations of readers for a reason. A precocious, self-reliant boy rises to the top of a dystopian abusive system - something that a lot of 1st world boys hope to do.
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u/scotty5x5 Sep 14 '12
I agree, badly written and heavy handed morality plays for tween boys and girls. I wasn't aware it was being used in lesson plans, that should kill it permanently but I think I heard a new book/movie, something was coming out.
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u/alephnul Sep 13 '12
On top of which OSC is a homophobic bigot and a major asshole. I can't see the appeal either.
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Sep 14 '12
While this is true, I didn't see his bigotry leak through into Ender's Game. His more recent novels, like the Empire series, are a different story.
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Sep 14 '12
Orson Scott Card is the most enigmatic writer ever. His next book, Speaker for the Dead, is classic. Speaker explores the ideas of empathy and xenophobia deftly and humanely. Speaker explores two different species, and how they learn to overcome their differences and forgive each other. Speaker is about treating others different than yourself with respect, kindness, and empathy. How Orson Scott Card, himself, is devoid of any humanity or empathy is beyond me. He completely failed to understand his greatest work.
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Sep 14 '12
One of my favorite internet conspiracy theories is that Card didn't actually write his books, but that they were a carefully crafted attempt at a PR coup for the Mormon Church.
Oh, and the Ender novels are apprently Hitler apologetics.
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034
I love the internet.
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u/narwi Sep 15 '12
It is classic not just because of the merits of itself as a work of literature, but also as its role in the body of scifi literature and its effects on the works of other writers.
Do consider if your grasp of the meaning of "classic" might be off.
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u/oneoffour Sep 14 '12 edited Oct 15 '12
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u/amus Sep 13 '12
Fanboys.
Personally the casual genocide was too much to take.
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u/SergeantRegular Sep 14 '12
Willravel said it well. The story is told from the perspective of a child. A very gifted and intelligent child, but a child with a still-developing mind nonetheless. The concept of genocide isn't casual, it has yet to sink it. When you get a bit further in the series, you see how he realizes how that act, his one choice not only changed him, but every single thing in his entire existence.
Ender is the epitome of a character who lives with the consequences of his actions, it's only because he was a child when his actions were so insanely consequential that he is able to persist as a character.
Now, I didn't think it was the most entertaining book ever, hell not even the most entertaining OSC book (Pastwatch, that would be) but the ideas it explores are amazing.
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Sep 14 '12
What troubles me greatly is that Card paints Ender as morally superior in all situations and completely blameless for the extensive violence he commits throughout the book. It's always someone else's fault, especially the victim's own fault. He even justifies the genocide of an entire race by saying "They made that choice when they attacked us" (or something to that effect). I can see how always being correct and being morally superior to your enemies would appeal to a 13 year-old reader.
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u/Andoverian Sep 14 '12
I think you missed the point. Ender knows that he is not morally superior. In fact, he agonizes over his guilt constantly. His biggest fear is not that he will fail, it is that he will become a monster like his brother.
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u/douchebag_karren Sep 14 '12
Ender doesn't say that, one of the military guys says that. At the end of the Book, Ender feels a full scale of guilt and responsiblity, to the point that he takes the creatures ability to survive as a race, and keeps it safe until he can find a place to let them exist again. Also- He doesn't know what he did until after he did it. That was the whole point of lying to him, because he wouldn't have done it that way if he knew the truth.
The point is that the adults are not good moral people, and they use Ender and his abilities and even his faults as pawn to get him to do what they want, and by the end of the first book, he is taking responsibility- he has left all of those adults behind and is trying to make a better world.
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u/SergeantRegular Sep 14 '12
See, I am not an Ender fanboy, I just thought it was pretty good. But I've always seen Ender as more of an almost amoral character. Granted, it's been many years since I've read them, but when I think about it, I can compare Ender in a lot of ways to Dexter, from the Showtime show. He's not good because of empathy or feelings, but he's "good" because he's come to the conclusion rationally that he has to be, in certain situations.
I remember that Valentine was all lovey-dovey and emotional, and Peter was cold and hard and almost "evil" and Ender was a sort of perfect blend. Rational enough to get things done, but capable of applying his rational side to his emotions when he needs to relate to people. His rational side (in combat) was most evident in Ender's Game, but in Speaker for the Dead, it really shines how his emotional side had an important voice as well. But, at his core, I always saw Ender as highly rational, almost beyond emotions, but with a very good system of emulating and relating to people with them.
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u/Andoverian Sep 14 '12
Casual? Have you read the rest of the series? Or even the end of this book?
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u/LordGrey Sep 14 '12
Seriously. I think he glossed over the bit where upon learning that he had committed genocide, Ender SHUTS DOWN. He drifts in and out of a depression fueled sleep, during a fucking base invasion, and basically just wants to be left alone to die.
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u/paulrpotts Sep 14 '12 edited Sep 14 '12
I'm trying to mod you back up because it seems to me there are two ways that people could (well, typically at least) dislike the book. The first is that they think it's boring, or poorly crafted, or uninteresting. That baffles me, and I think that's a sign of an unimaginative reader, or inexperienced reader. I mean, it's not even very long; it moves quickly; there are no wasted scenes; everything that is introduced and set up is used as part of the story. I don't buy the arguments that it isn't a well-crafted novel and a good piece of science fiction. So the opinions of those people don't really interest me; it's like someone saying they didn't like The Great Gatsby because it had words they didn't understand. From a craft standpoint I think it's self-evident that Ender's Game is well-done. My wife doesn't even like reading fiction; she's more into history and economics, but it kept her up all night reading it -- and this pissed her off, because of the second objection.
The second objection is my objection -- because we find it something of a morally offensive book. It sets up a perfectly crafted situation designed to lower your barriers to accepting genocide as a legitimate answer. Some people have claimed that Ender's Game is a carefully crafted apology for the life of Hitler himself. I don't find that really compelling, but I think it clearly pushes some of those buttons, and in that sense it's a sort of trap. And so I find myself really enjoying and becoming emotionally involved in the very humanized and engaging story of a killer.
That is also, by the way, in my opinion what makes it an interesting book to study, but I still don't have to like it.
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u/amus Sep 14 '12
Thank you for the well put articulation of my point as well. I totally agree.
everyone uses the arguments, "oh he is totally sorry in the later books", but If I didn't like the first book, why would I read it's sequels? In this case his reaction to the people who used him and his reaction to his own deeds was really appalling in my opinion.
That all being said, I have found that Reddit will savagely down-vote anything negative someone says about In and Out Burgers and Ender's Game. Neither of which would I consider "culture". Yet I still keep stating my opinion. If I really cared about karma I wouldn't have posted my feelings on the matter in the first place.
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u/paulrpotts Sep 14 '12
The sequels are interesting, but they are very strange and flawed compared to the tightly structured fast-moving first novel (which someone points out, was expanded from a story, although that doesn't necessarily make it bad as they say). They bring in some weird themes, too: incest, cloning, very odd, and not all that great.
The recent books in the same universe -- well, they're not bad, but they're completely different, in that they are more adult novels set in a much more complicated universe. I read Ender's Shadow and thought it was pretty good, since Bean was one of my favorite characters, but I haven't read all of them and probably won't. I'm not really interested in the Hegemon stuff.
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Sep 14 '12
It's a young adult novel. A very manipulative young adult novel. It's the SF version of A Separate Peace. Some people like it. Some people outgrow it.
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Sep 14 '12
OP, I think you're alone in this assessment. Ender's Game is a veritable classic of science fiction because Ender is so identifiable to so many different readers. Oh well, everyone is entitled to his opinion. Try some Niven, it's got a different tack all together. A World Out of Time or Protector might be a good place to start assuming you haven't already read them.
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u/pluto_nash Sep 14 '12
TLDR: Its not that the people are wrong to call it a classic, its just a lot like Citizen Kane: by today's standards, pedantic and boring, but it had a huge revolutionary contribution to the genre as a whole.
I must say I felt the same way after reading it at 28. Then I asked the same question. The answer I cam up with is as follows:
The book was written in 1985 and it was pretty ground breaking at the time. It had some neat scenarios and original ideas. The twist at the end, the age of the hero, etc etc.....
People read it and liked it and it became popular. Then some of those people who were teenagers grew up and become scifi writers, authors, artists, movie directors, whatever, and they borrowed ideas and scenes and ideas from the book because it resonated with them. Then their work spawned others to borrow and mimic and emulate from their ideas.
So now, 27 years later we have a huge amount of media that has been influenced by this book. By the time we get around to reading it we can see what is coming from a long way off, its not surprising, and none of it is original or new. to us. We are experiencing this stuff for the millionth time, but we are also experiencing the originator of the ideas we have already come to know. So for us this is common place and we don't understand the hype, but in reality we have already experienced the same thing everyone else is talking about when they talk about how cool Ender's game is, we just experienced it with a book or movie that used the idea that we consumed first before reading the book where that idea originated.
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u/Omniest Sep 14 '12
Ender's Game is a classic? I really enjoy the book, but a classic? I wouldn't consider it a classic really.
I do have to be honest. As much as I fricking love Ender's Game, I have to stop reading right before the last chapter every time I read through it. The last chapter ruins the book for me.
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Sep 14 '12
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u/Kiram Sep 14 '12
The problem I have with this is that most people are able to adequately explain why The Godfather Part II is an amazing movie. I'm not sure exactly where I lie, but it does seem that a large number of people jumping to the defense of Ender's Game are just yelling, "What do you mean?! Can't you tell it's awesome?!" without any real substance behind the arguments.
Personally, I'm on the fence. I remember absolutely loving it as a kid, but going back and reading it as an adult, I find myself agreeing with the OP a lot more. It reads out a lot like an adolescent power-fantasy. The world building was good, and the central conceit of the ending was still interesting as all hell, but the journey just... fell flat as an adult.
I'm sure there are good arguments on both sides, I just... don't see a lot of them coming from the pro-ender side.
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u/dabigua Sep 14 '12
You think it's awesome, OP thinks it's over rated. I'm with OP. Taste and preference are subjective. It's okay that he doesn't like the book you seem to think is so good. Take a breath.
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u/ton2lavega Sep 14 '12
I wouldn't use so much superlatives and hyperboles while describing Ender's game. The Martian Chronicles is mind blowing, Fahrenheit 451 has characters with enormous depth, Stand on Zanzibar has brilliant dialogues, but I wouldn't say so for Ender's Game.
I guess what OP is saying is that Ender's Game falls short when compared to other SF classics.
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u/pilekrig Sep 14 '12
I've read every book you just mentioned, and keep Ender's Game at the top. The only things I put over EG are Foundation, Hitchhiker's Guide, and Dune. Saying it "falls short" is just, like, your opinion man. Not because of some adolescent power fantasy or whatever people in here are saying, but because it's great scifi and some people enjoy how it's written. Such is literature, I guess.
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u/ton2lavega Sep 17 '12
Well saying EG is at the top is just, like, your opinion man. This can keep on forever.
Keep pretending OSC is a genius, I genuinely don't mind at all.
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u/I_fucked_OPs_Mom Sep 14 '12
Reddit considers it a classic. US-Americans who only know stuff from their country like it. Doesn't mean it is one. I found it terribly dull and could only appeal to twelve-year-olds.
Enders Game is featured in a circlejerk here every day or two. The biggest irony is that the same people who consider it a literary masterpiece like to shit on other teenager literature like Twilight.
For similar circlejerk examples on this subreddit, see Firefly, Dune, Star Wars
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u/Macaulifer Sep 14 '12
HEY, HEY GUYS.
I DON'T LIKE THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE LIKE. PAY ATTENTION TO ME. HEY, GUYS! EVERYBODY IS WRONG APART FROM ME!
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u/I_fucked_OPs_Mom Sep 14 '12
I'm not saying everybody is wrong apart from me, I just happen to think that some topics are just another endless circlejerk that never stops here. Reddit is a site where only popular opinions are upvoted, instead of posts that add to a discussion, and this subreddit is one clear example. Instead of healthy discussion it´s a neverending 'oh, Enders Game is so great, and fuck Fox for cancelling Firefly, and George Lucas should be burned at the stake for daring to modify the movies that he owns, and Primer and Moon are the greatest and most original movies ever, and the Matrix sequels sucked'.
Getting downvotes for just expressing an opinion and answering OP's question confirms my earlier statement. You probably think I should have just joined the circlejerk and let it go but no, I dared to express an opinion that is different from others. Stupid opinionated nazis like you are what makes Reddit suck.
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u/Macaulifer Sep 14 '12
Most of these things get so much exposure in science fiction communities because they're what brought a great deal of people into sci-fi 'into the fold', since they're so accessible.
They may not be perfect representations of the genre, or even 'good' movies/books/etc, but they're important due to the impact that they had on the community. Would it still be the same if Enders Game had not been written? Or if Star Wars was not made? I sincerely doubt it.
Also, calling me a Nazi? Not cool, man. Last time I checked, no science fiction nerd gathered us all under one banner and committed genocide upon a race. Eat shit, you angry jackoff.
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Sep 14 '12
There's no need to be so bitter about a piece of work just because you didn't enjoy it. I'm currently reading Ender's Game and I will admit it's not grabbing me like other books but that doesn't mean it deserves loathing hate.
I don't like Jane Austen's work. I tried to read it and I couldn't get interested in it. I still understand it's considered a classic and widely appreciated by a lot of people, same with Ender and Dune, and the Red Mars trilogy and innumerable books. Literature is something you respect as a part of history and a part of culture. It takes an idea and places it in a situation that is either close to home or incredibly distant with enough similarities in political and social events to match it to events close to home. 1984 and Brave New World still feel relevant.
You need to get some cream for your butthurt and move on.
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u/I_fucked_OPs_Mom Sep 14 '12 edited Sep 14 '12
I'm not really butthurt, it is just a matter of fact that Enders Game is not a classic. It is just very popular on Reddit. Popular on Reddit / teenage yanks read it in high school = instant classic. I dislike that reasoning.
I guess that it is OK because it gets teenagers to read, which is a very good thing. The same can be said about Harry Potter, Twilight and The Hunger Games, just to mention a few examples of literature aimed at adolecents that has been very popular in recent years. They have no literary value whatsoever, but at least they get kids to read, so they are more likely to pick up a book later in life. But considering them literary masterpieces and classics is a different thing.
What really makes my butt hurt is you mentioning true classics and gems of literature (not only sci-fi) like 1984 and Brave New World on the same thread as Enders Game. But that's just my opinion, thank you for being open to discussion unlike other folks here.
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Sep 14 '12
I do my best to take all opinions in to account. Thank you for reasoning out your side of the argument a bit more for me.
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u/zorno Sep 14 '12
Ender's Game won the 1985 Nebula Award for best novel[6] and the 1986 Hugo Award for best novel.
This is not twilight.
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u/I_fucked_OPs_Mom Sep 14 '12
But getting awards does not mean that books (or movies, etc.) are indeed good. It's this constant discussion of 'Yeah, but that movie got an Oscar, so it must be good!' No, it just means that some persons found it was good.
I guess that in this case the book must just pass the test of time in order that everybody can evaluate it better. I just think that this book is some fascist teenager power fantasy wet dream. But that is just my opinion. Reddit circlejerk / hivemind likes it. Hooray!
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u/zorno Sep 14 '12
The point is that it wasn't just an average book taht critics laughed at, like the twilight novels. You are claming it is only liked by teenagers and geeks, but apparently at least some people out there who should know SOMETHING about quality literature thought this was a good book. the best released in a whole year actually.
So no, an award doesn't automatically mean it is good, but if you are the minority saying something is bad, then provide some evidence! You sound like a petulant child, complaining that only immature geeks would like this book. If you want to post your opinion, go ahead. If you want to argue that an award winning book is really bad, then say WHY.
But to compare this book to the twilight books? Come on, this just makes everyone who reads your comment either think that you are an idiot, or you have some cognitive bias at work that makes you want to hate this book. I'm betting on the latter. We all have our biases, after all.
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u/crimsonslide Sep 14 '12
It may be because I read it at 26 instead of when I was in my teens. I get the impression that a lot of people who read the book when they were young identified with Ender because they were also bullied by their peers and mistreated by adults.
It very well may be the age at which you read it. For many of us, Ender's Game was a book that we read when we were first getting into Science Fiction.
Now that you are reading it at an older age, you have been exposed to many more stories.
I liked it because I found it to be very different from any other science fiction story that I had read before.
Of course, now that I have re-read some Douglas Adams as an adult, I am not quite as impressed by his style of writing and humor. But I absolutely loved it in grade school.
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u/osenic Sep 14 '12
It's one of my husband's favorite books, and when we first started dating he was shocked to find out I'd never read it. I read mostly sci-fi and fantasy, but somehow I just never got around to EG.
I'm with you. I think that you have to read it as an adolescent (in age or mindset) to really love it. I didn't think it was bad, I just didn't think it was amazing as so many people seem to.
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Sep 14 '12
I really disliked the book because a large part is in that virtual training describing detailed movement of kids in zero-g which is pretty much boring and doesn't add much to the story. There are also some major plotholes in the story and the overall lack of even attempting to produce something realistic (I don't care if it is Scifi or not - kids don't get to write political texts in newspapers that will influence the world).
I think most people read it in there teens, they don't necessarily like the book because they have been bullied too but probably because it was there first Scifi book.
Overall I'd say don't bother with it if you are older than 20. The story is just shallow and the universe is pretty boring with cartoon dictators and such.
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Sep 14 '12
it's nerd porn for the adolescent. and highly unrealistic, character wise. think about it, the most talented jock is a social pariah in a school for jocks.
I dislike it.
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u/dannylandulf Sep 13 '12
Dear heaven's, what book were you reading? Ender is FULL of faults. That's one of the main driving forces of the book; his self-doubt and constant wrestling with his own violence...drive to success to the point of obsession.
He never lost because the program was designed to always push him to the edge but never give him a situation he couldn't find a solution to...remember they talk in depth about the computer projections that would 'get him there' just in time for the actual invasion to start.
I'm sorry that you didn't like the book; but if all you got out of it is that it's about a perfect boy overcoming bullying you missed the point.