r/buildapc • u/SoSpecial • Jul 31 '11
Hey r/buildapc, we need to talk about something.
Hiya, my names Vince, I go by WTHbot on the popular forum overclock.net. I haven't posted there in a while as I haven't built a computer in almost a year. But as Redditor who has been assembling computers since he was 12 and made money high school with this skill I find myself not an expert or a professional but at least an experienced builder.
Furthermore I've dedicated a lot of my time to a particular part of the computer. Most of my suggestions will involve this part and every suggestion will be quality. Infact for now on I am to preface each suggestion with not only why I am suggesting it but why it's important.
What part of the computer did Overclock.net get me so interested in?
The Power Supply.
Simply put it's one of the most overlooked and important parts of the pc. Most new builders will completely forget and just get what is cheapest, but the intricacies of it are far to complex to just throw a dart and buy the first one you find.
So here are a few links, these are very well done and they are basically my first source when I need to find out about a psu.
Tator Tot's epic Recomended PSU thread. That guy is so good, basically that is the only thread you will ever need to refer too. If the PSU isn't on that list then it is not worth your money. I'm that serious, there are reasons why those are up there and if you want those reasons then I will be personally glad to explain each one. Furthermore that thread links to the best review of it, not your average joe reviews actuall testing equipment that measures various things to objectively prove a psu's worth.
*Phaedrus Quick'n'Dirty PSU calculator *
This thread is also an epic post by another epic contributor to Overclock.net. Phaedrus is the voice of reason and gets the last word on everything over there. He taught me more then any one else when I mentioned to him that I was interested in helping out in that forum. This thread is a relatively new one, and I was not around when it was originally published but reading over it today I can say it's good information. Likewise if it comes from Phaedrus I know it is without even having to proof read it myself. If you are wondering about just how beefy of a psu you will need then that thread will steer you in the right direction.
shinji2k PSU Review Database Once aqain Shinji2k is one of those guys you don't question. He literally is one of the most knowledgeable people on that forum, and personal I think he's a great guy. This thread is the last word on any psu, it highlights good reviews, and makes sure you get good information. This thread does not only showcase the best, but also the worst. It's worth the read if you are not sure if a psu is good or not. Once again if a psu is not on this list then it is not worth buying, it's not worth the risk. It could be the best psu in the world but it would never have a good recommendation from myself or anyone else informed on the state of the psu market, for the simple fact that we haven't objectively proven it at this point.
Between these three links I feel you are given basically all the information you will need to not only suggest to new people but also make informed decisions for yourself. I do urge each an every one of you to either make an account there or at least to one of the many tech forums around the internet. That one being my all time favorite Once again though I'm not as in the loop as I used to be( hopefully as that will change seeing how I will be constructing a new pc soon) but I've not lost the experience that has made me into the person today. Part of that experience is knowing that by and large the most important part of the pc is that of the power supply for the simple fact that a good one will cost you more then you want to spend if you don't research into it, and that a bad one can absolutely destroy your computer.
I'll be taking all questions but from here on out I will make sure not to just post a link and be on my way as I understand the newer people need a bit of explanation especially when it's about a power supply they don't even care about.
Big thank you to Nubbinator, he deserves many an upvote as he provided a link to a site that has every platform for every mainstreem PSU on the market from what I can tell.
RealHardTechX PSU Review Database
This is a site I used to use way back when and it has alot of really good information. Once again thank you nubbinator!
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u/Lewkylewk Jul 31 '11
I wish we could pin this to the front page.
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u/SoSpecial Jul 31 '11
I'd like to at least see these links put on the sidebar, I don't deserve a lick of recognition for the great people on that forums work. I usually just suggest, and I do it because it's important to make sure people are aware before they completely mess up their computer or spend way more then they should cause they are uninformed.
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u/HopeThisNameFi Jul 31 '11
I've linked that PSU calculator here several times. Didn't stop some people from getting a 1000W PSU "just in case" though.
These are some great links and I think most of the regulars here are already recommending the same products / wattages to people.
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u/SoSpecial Jul 31 '11
And that is good, but just incase. I'd rather have at least the review link and the calculator( seeing how it's more accurate then most online calculators) in the side bar. If not just for the regulars to use for quick access of reliable information.
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u/bkgood Aug 01 '11
I want to start off by saying good on you for making a great post about a really important topic.
But the problem isn't resources. Clicking through the first handful of [Build Ready] and [Build Help] posts, like 80% originally had a shit, cheap PSU, with the first comment recommending a specific, good PSU or giving some guidelines on what that PSU the bad PSU should be replaced with. The BaPC Beginners' Guide and the Logical Increments PC Buying Guide in the sidebar both recommend appropriate PSUs. Resources really aren't lacking. (The other 20% either came into the build knowing their shit or read the docs and had good/appropriate PSUs.)
The majority of people just don't read, regardless of what you put in the sidebar and guides. and there's already quite a bit of information on proper PSUs in the documents referenced in the sidebar.
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u/MaybeImNaked Aug 01 '11
I see no love for the modular Corsair HX series in TaterTot's recommendations. Is this because modular PSU's aren't as price-competitive or becuase he/you actually think they're bad? Or is that list just old?
Also, I think you should've titled this post "Hey r/buildapc, here's what you need to know about PSUs" instead of the ambiguous and dramatic title you chose. Either way, good information.
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u/SoSpecial Aug 01 '11
It's because the HX series is overpriced for what you get. It's one of the best series of psu's currently, but it's onlky a bit under in price to say something like Seasonic's X-series, and the Seasonic still can outperform in most cases. And please do not forget, Seasonic X-Series psu's have an Active fan that only spins when it's under load they stay cool enough to not always have a fan on. That is incredible, and when it was released it was a bit unheard of.
Also you see much cheaper psu's being like 90% of the performance in something like XFX's 650 and 750w models. It just doesn't make sense right now with the current prices to purchase an HX line psu. Especially if you consider Seasonic, Enermax, Delta, Enhance, and the AX line fill out the top of the line quiet nicely
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u/erode Aug 01 '11
With that title, I thought this was going to be another emo "this subreddit has lost its way" type of thread.. good on you, sir.
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u/SoSpecial Aug 01 '11
Haha no! Just wanted to bring to light one of the murkier parts of Computer building. Something not everyone will know much about and will often overlook. Being a person who wants to contribute I found a niche in this as something I can relay to others to make their build process that much better. I'd like everyone who get's a look at this to at least be able to make their own decisions and be able to help others make a good one.
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Jul 31 '11
I recent bought this PSU based on price and the Antec reputation and noticed that it is not on any of the lists. Is there something wrong with it? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016
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u/SoSpecial Aug 01 '11 edited Aug 01 '11
I don't have a review, so I've not seen the insides of that version of the psu, but I do know the Antec Basiq b500U was okay. The platform for the orginal was FSP and they make various average psu's. They won't blow up your system is what I am trying to say.
As far as the one you bought I don't want to say I know what platform it came off but if its one of the newer FSP's then it is decent enough. An example of the newer FSP platform would be The StealthXtreme 2 from OCZ which was a pretty nice update to the original StealthXtreme. Once again though without seeing inside that Antec I couldn't tell you if it was or not. ** So what does it mean if there is no review?** Simply put it could just mean no review samples have been sent to the accepted reviewers. I'll say that much about it as you can speculate why not, but there really is no telling. This happens from time to time that a company will neglect shipping units to decent reviewers, and in some cases they send them to everyone they shouldn't( that happened with Kingwins 1000W gold psu which we had a big discussion about, they eventually did send a review and it turned out okay from what I remember.)
EDIT:Due to nubbinators post I've found a site that tells me which companies have made which platform. The Platform is from Delta and BP430 which should be the same platform did fairly well, it's just to bad this site isn't in english.
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u/rustypig Aug 01 '11
Thank you so much for this. As a first time builder PSUs are one of the hardest things to find good information on.
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u/Sevaroth Jul 31 '11
I think the links posted here do indeed belong on the right hand bar. I've linked to the top 2, especially Phaedrus, several times.
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u/burntcookie90 Aug 01 '11 edited Aug 01 '11
To the sidebar with you!
My PSU is such overkill, but it was cheap on black friday, so whatever :D
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u/3th0s Aug 01 '11
Could you evaluate this tiered psu ranking? I often use it when giving advice here. It seems to be well researched, and although I'm certainly not experienced enough to talk about specifics, it seems good enough for most people.
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u/SoSpecial Aug 01 '11
There's so many, and most are just the brand. . .
Like that rocketfish in the very bottom which is best buys generic brand is actually not that bad ( I know they have a few models that are average, I don't know enough about all of them to say they are all decent though). There are a few others I see, some are placed to high and some are to low, but with it being only the brands I can't make a distinction if it's worth it or not. Not everything is brand by brand but for the most part they seem to only go brand by brand when they want to draw attention away from certain brands. Like they want you to see Enermax a million times and for a good reason Enermax's by in large are really decent units.
You can't go on a brand by brand basis for a few reasons:
For one most of them don't even make their own psu's and even if you get to the OEM not one quality really differentiates the OEM's. Like I can say Delta and Enhance have the nicest soldering in the industry and for the most part I'd be right but would it matter is the question. I can say that Enermax and Seasonic while expensive are by and large the best mainstream OEM's, and for the most part( aside from a few select psu's enermax has released that do not live up to their previous models) I wouldn't be amiss.
So to say whole brands are bad is wrong. I feel that you can't just lump these together, and you need to go on a unit by unit base. Even unit's that are built off the same platform can bebetter or worse depending on how you look at it.
Like Seasonic's X750 has a San Ace fan which is like top of the line stock fan, it's so good. But I can also say that Corsair AX750( built off the same platform mind you) has a lesser quality fan( the name escapes me) but the cables are nicer. Even if it literally is the same PSU in most meaningful ways.
This is why list don't work if you don't pinpoint exact models on all of them not to mention you literally need to read a decent review( one that objectively proves the worth of the psu) to even begin to make a meaningful decision. Looking at a list and throwing a dart at what ever someone says is the best could leave you something to desire.
The reason I like Tator Tot's list is due to the fact that he's very specific and links to a review that will back up his statements and doesn't include blatant ripp-offs. A blatant ripp-off would be what I was asked about earlier with Corsairs HX line, even if it's one of the best series of psu's( aside from the HX1000 and that's because it's literally two 500w psu's glued together which mean you can actually break it by loading one to much.) It's still very expensive and their are very good alternatives, especially now with the M12ii models so widely accepted. Hell even the M12II's from Seasonic which have historically been illusive are now available direct from the manufacture with a decent warranty.
The M12II's directly compete with CWT DSG which the HX line is based off of. Not only that but the M12II's are mostly cheaper. So when your leading competitor does what you do for less you have a problem getting a recommendation for those of us in the know. But no consumer would be amiss with either line of PSU seeing how they are the top tier and have been for quiet some time.
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u/DoTheEvolution Aug 01 '11 edited Aug 01 '11
Most of them are ranked by series and a brand, not just brand. And if withing series there are some quality variations they mention it there by exact wattage.
I also use that tiered eggexpert list and I like it...
TatorTot's list miss few I like, like cougar GX or coolermaster silent pro in lower wattage categories and there are just too many enermax naxn there for my taste, which suffer same low 12 rail as new corsair CX.
There are many there placed only by brand/series instead of reviews so its not that much different than that eggexpert list
Also I believe both seasonic X and corsair AX use Sanyo Denki(San Ace, I just love the sound of Sanyo Denki more) fans... and so it seems with ax750 the difference is that it uses the one san ace series ending with F401 or F404 which also use new seasonic X - 560/660/760 instead of 9S1212P4M61 fans that are no more in production that seasonic X 650/750 used before, that were labeled with lower dB I think... so its not the best example I would say...
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Aug 01 '11
Hello WTH! just saw a post of yours on OCN :)
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u/SoSpecial Aug 01 '11
Well hello to you, I'm not quiet sure who you are but I sure hope my post represented me well.
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u/nubbinator Aug 01 '11 edited Aug 01 '11
Why no mention of eXtreme Power Supply Calculator? It tends to be one of the best PSU calculators* out there, reflecting the actual drawn wattages seen in reviews pretty accurately. It's a resource I think should have been on the sidebar long ago.
Another great PSU tool is RealHardTechX's PSU Review Database. Not all the sites linked to are the best for PSU reviews, but it has many excellent sites like JonnyGURU, PCPer, Hardware Secrets, Hardware Heaven, OC3D, SilentPCReview, and HardOCP linked to. While not a definitive review database, as they are missing sites like Hardware Canucks, they are the best starting point I know of.
*Edit: when I say best, I mean more reliable. No PSU calculator will be 100% accurate, nor should one ever be assumed to be perfectly accurate.