r/whichbike • • Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

413 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike • • 1h ago

Which frame should I choose? Moving up from my Lynskey r500.

• Upvotes

Looking for a very similar geometry (aggressive but comfortable) but need a stack 10mm taller based on my recent bike fit. I have a $4k frame/seatpost/stem budget (cheaper is preferred). I will be moving over my Force AXS group set and Reserve Wheelset.

Considering the following frames:
Factor MONZA ($4100)
Specialized Tarmac SL8 ($3000)
Enve Melee v1 ($3800 w/ stem/bars and seatpost purchased extra)
Giant Propel Advance Pro ($3200)

Also open to other options and suggestions. Ideally looking to stay with new frames only.


r/whichbike • • 10h ago

Talk me out of this 2020 specialized Allez

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3 Upvotes

I understand $600 for for 6 year old bike isn’t an amazing deal, but I went for a test ride and it was so smooth compared to my clunky felt verza speed 50. Also, it’s being sold by a reputable bike shop so I’m counting it as being tuned up and basically new.

This would be for my 5 mile each way commute to work on the streets of Chicago. Entirely street.

From posting:

Specialized Allez road bike

56cm
Carbon seatpost
Cross top levers
Tuned up and ready to ride

Shimano Claris drivetrain


r/whichbike • • 4h ago

Scott addict GR 2027

1 Upvotes

Any owners of this bike? How does it ride?


r/whichbike • • 5h ago

Thinking about Xlite 06

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1 Upvotes

Hey,

I'd like to get your opinion on the Rose XLITE 06 Force AXS (2024/2025).

I'm planning to buy a new bike, but spent a couple of months trying to decide on the right model. I've finally settled on Rose. Initially, I wanted the Shave FF, but it's quite expensive, so I found a used XLITE 06 for €2,800. I need a bike that is aero enough, lightweight (under 7.5 kg), and comfortable enough for 200km+ trips.

Any recommendations?


r/whichbike • • 12h ago

Can someone talk me out of this Ellsworth Truth as I’m seriously considering it

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3 Upvotes

I mean it’s a beautiful bike and appears to be in great condition, though it’s coming up to 30 years old so there’s much to expect to be wrong with it.

What’s a good alternative to this bike (I’m looking for a 90s or 2000s frame only) or is this really worth going for?

It’s priced at around £400


r/whichbike • • 9h ago

Between a race bike and an endurance bike suggestions?

1 Upvotes

I've got a Cervelo Caledonia which I truly enjoy, but want a bike that feels a bit quicker. 30 mile rides on the road, carbon, steel or titanium. I'm 62, so I do want some comfort. I'm in the US and budget is $5k ish. Canyon ultimate? Cervelo Soloist? Custom steel?


r/whichbike • • 16h ago

Allez Cues vs X Lab RS5

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3 Upvotes

Allez Pros - Bigger gear range ( 11-39) - Normal stem and bar - Normal round seapost

Allez Cons - 200 dollars more - Only 10 speed

RS5 Pros - 12 speed 105 - Power meter - 200 less - Smooth welds

RS5 Cons - Mystery integrated cockpit - Bigger chainring (52/36) - 10mm longer reach - Fully internal cable routing.


r/whichbike • • 16h ago

Which Cannondale is this?

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3 Upvotes

I’ve been obsessively looking for a vintage Cannondale MTB for ages. I found this frame on marketplace but the seller is not sure which model it is. I know it’s in rough shape, my hope would be to do a full repaint with new decals, price is reflected on condition of course.


r/whichbike • • 11h ago

Bike suggestions

1 Upvotes

I’m a beginner cyclist looking for a road bike to train for my first Ironman 70.3.
My budget is under $1,500.
I’m considering Trek, Specialized, or Canyon. Which brand and model would you recommend?
Would you recommend buying used or new, and should I go for an endurance road bike?


r/whichbike • • 12h ago

Im a beginner what bike should i get?

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1 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 16h ago

Bicicleta para fazer umas trilhas

2 Upvotes

Ando a ver umas bicicletas para começar a fazer umas trilhas, tenho o orçamento até 500 euros e vi uma Scott scale 980 por 450€ de 2018

Uma Scott aspect 930 por 450€ de 2025

Uma cobe ain race 450€ de ,2025

Alguém tem experiência com alguma delas? Ou pode me dar opinião e ideias de outros modelos dentro dos 500 euros


r/whichbike • • 14h ago

bike for dirt/gravel paths - not MTB or road bike

1 Upvotes

I'm doing a lot of camping/traveling and want to take a bike with me. It'll never be used for commuting, city riding or "real" mountain biking.

Paths, trails, occasional road use in a campground or national park. I might ride from camp to the restaurant a few miles away. I might ride on the super flat dry lakes in So Cal. I might noodle around Yellowstone or Yosemite to avoid traffic.

I'm thinking flat bars, fat-ish tires (2 - 2.5"?). Possibly front suspension, but no rear.

I'm 6' 1" about 185. Reasonably fit, but not a hero.

Budget: I'd like to keep it under $1,000 - but I have no concept of bike prices these days. I don't need a high end bike (I know $1,000 isn't high end) but would like to avoid a Wal*Mart water pipe bike as well. I live in a small town with one bike store - I'll be visiting them this week.

Not opposed to used.

I have a vintage (early 90's) Miyata Elevation 5,000 (with the red, silver and blue paint) that could be put back on the road - but I'm wondering if there are parts available for antiques like that.


r/whichbike • • 16h ago

Polygon bikes

1 Upvotes

Whats your opinion on Polygon bikes? Are they reliable?


r/whichbike • • 18h ago

Road vs Gravel Bike for a beginner in SF Bay Area

1 Upvotes

Hey all, I'm getting into cycling for pleasure and fitness and I'm about to buy my first bike, but I keep going back and forth between road and gravel.

I am a complete beginner, and eventually want to work up to 30-40 mile rides around the San Francisco Bay Area, mostly around Peninsula to start with. My budget is $1,500-1,800 and I'm specifically looking at new bikes, not used ones, which are not too heavy to ride around.

Here's what I'm looking at:

  1. X-Lab RS5
  2. Specialized Diverge 3 Alloy
  3. Cannondale Topstone 3 CUES 2x

A couple of questions:
based on the paths and roads people ride around here, should I be looking at a road bike or a gravel bike? How much gravel or fire road do you actually run into on typical rides?
And if I got the RS5, could I swap the stock 32mm tires for 35mm and still enjoy some light gravel, or is that too narrow?
Any other new bikes in this price range worth a look?

Thanks so much, really appreciate any advice!


r/whichbike • • 18h ago

Seeking Adventure Gravel Options, GRX 1-by, <$3500USD

1 Upvotes

So I have to replace my beloved, and totaled, Cube Cross Race Pro. Cube doesn't make a direct replacement for it, and even if they did, it'd be hard for me to obtain one in the US -- a market that Cube is unconcerned with. The name "Cross Race Pro" is misleading, as it is not a 'cross race bike at all. It is what would today be called a gravel adventure bike -- extremely stout frame, with plenty of cargo mounts.

That's what I want, to replace it. I have found a few options, but not as many as I expected, and with the popularity of gravel, I feel like I must be missing some.

If you know of any bikes that meet the following criteria, please feel free to mention them in a reply. Thanks.

  • gravel adventure bike -- plenty of cargo mounts, and such features
  • clearance for 700c x 45mm tires
  • NOT made of steel -- I have nothing against steel bikes, and already own a few, but this bike should not be, for various reasons.
  • Shimano drivetrain, most likely GRX -- I will not consider anything else, too many bad experiences with SRAM already.
  • available new, mostly likely 2026 or 7 model year -- will not be considering second-hand bikes for this purchase.
  • reasonably available in the United States -- I don't mind it being "hard to find" or shipped from wherever, but it does need to get here somehow.
  • less than $3500 USD
  • NOT on the list below, which I already know about.

Massive extra points will be applied for any bikes not made in China. I prefer not to do business with China unless I absolutely have to, for a variety of reasons. None of my ten bikes were made there, and I hope that doesn't change.

I am not totally opposed to buying a 2-by bicycle, and removing the front derailleur, small chainring, and cable, but I'd rather not do so. It'd have to be a really nice bike otherwise, to make that worthwhile.

One of the reasons why I am asking is mere cosmetics. I find a lot of the options below are only available in what I consider to be ugly colorways. This is obviously personal preference, but it leaves me looking for more choice.

Known options ( many of which I have not yet determined the COO ):

  • Bianchi, Arcadex Comp and via Nirone 7
  • Cannondale, Topstone CAAD 1 (available soon), Topstone Carbon 3
  • Scott, Speedster Gravel 10, 20, Addict Gravel 30
  • Mondraker Arid S
  • BMC URS Two
  • Ridley Kanzo Adventure, Adventure ALU ( not sure I can get these )
  • Trek Checkpoint ALR 4 Gen 3
  • Salsa Flyway C
  • Norco Search A

Thanks in advance.


r/whichbike • • 19h ago

Dilemma: Lower motor power with belt drive vs. high power with a chain?

1 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

I’m shopping for a daily commuter e-bike to handle a 20km return trip along a coastal route (meaning strong headwinds, salt air, and wet weather). I'll also be running a pannier setup with laptop, lunch, change of clothes and occasional groceries. Will also do the occasional longer road spin on weekend.

I will be removing the battery for indoor storage every day.

This is my first ebike.

Right now, I’m torn between the low-maintenance peace of mind of a belt drive paired with a more modest motor, versus raw power and range on a traditional chain setup.

Assume these 3 options are priced more or less the same for me. Which route would you go and why?

- Giant NewTour E+ 1: Gates Carbon Belt Drive, Shimano Nexus 8 internal hub, 55Nm motor, 625Wh battery.

- Giant NewTour E+ 0: Gates Carbon Belt Drive, Enviolo stepless internal hub, 55Nm motor, 625Wh battery. (A bit concerned that if something goes wrong with the Enviolo I’ll have to change the whole thing which is pricey)

- Cube Kathmandu Hybrid EXC 750 (2024): 12-Speed Shimano Deore chain/derailleur, massive 85Nm Bosch CX motor, 750Wh battery. (The flimsy plastic battery cover that is prone to rattling or popping off on rough roads is a concern).

I'm specifically stuck on whether the 55Nm Giant motor is enough for heavy coastal headwinds, or if the power of the Bosch 85Nm is worth the extra chain maintenance in salt air and dealing with things like that battery cover design.

Appreciate any real-world feedback!

Cheers


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Decent bike under 300 euros? New or second hand

2 Upvotes

​

Hey everyone! I currently have a regular bike that I've converted to electric with a motor and battery, and I ride around 40 km (25 miles) a day. The problem is that it's an old city bike I bought second-hand for €100, and after a year, the rear axle is starting to cause problems. Since it uses non-standard dimensions, I can't find a replacement rear wheel that doesn't cost a fortune (basically as much as, or more than, the entire bike).

So I'm looking for another bike, either new or used, that I can convert.

My requirements would be:

* Disc brakes: I'm so done with rim brakes, especially when I'm going 50 km/h (31 mph).

*A basket:Ideally, it would have somewhere to mount a front basket, since I use one a lot. I can transfer my current basket to the new bike if needed.

* Rear rack mounts: Not essential, but definitely a plus.

* Front suspension: Would be nice, since hitting bumps at those speeds can be pretty rough.

* Size M: I'm 165 cm (5'5"), so that's the size I'm looking for.

I'm open to any suggestions for something reasonably decent.

My motor is a mid-drive, so most bikes should be compatible with it. Since the motor does pretty much all the work (except on really steep hills), I don't really care much about the gearing. Having rear gears would be nice, but I'm fine with a bike that has only a few gears, or even a single speed.

Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated! I know pretty much nothing about bikes, so I'm open to suggestions.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

struggling to choose bike

2 Upvotes

there’s scott foil and addict for me right now it’s both xs but i’m around 170 junior high should i get xs or wait for bigger one


r/whichbike • • 22h ago

Buscando una MTB trail 29”

1 Upvotes

Buenas a todos quiero volver a montar en bici hace mucho que no monto en bicicleta y quiero volver con algo nuevo. La última vez que monté en bici fue hace un par de años con una XC de solo una suspensión y de unos 300€ quiero buscar algo por menos de 1000€ de segunda mano. Estoy buscando una doble suspensión que suba y baje bien y que sea calidad. Sé que es difícil por 1000€ pero he estado mirando y hay muchas opciones sobre los 1000€.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

How much would you pay? Currently listed for 690 USD. Can it be used as a roadbike or gravel I swap the tires?

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2 Upvotes

Cube Cross Race Pro size 58 cm on solid axles.
Components:
Frame: Aluminum Superlite
Fork: Carbon
Gear set: Shimano 105 2x11
Brakes: Shimano BR-RS 505
Wheels: Mavic Aksium Disc
Tires: Michelin

The bike is in very good condition after service. I am selling due to upgrading to a new bike.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Commuter Bike - Surly or Specialized

1 Upvotes

Surly Preamble, or a Specialized Sirrus X 3.0?

Both brand new, I want to use it as a commuter with a slight hill. Racks, fenders, the works.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

What bike should I get?

6 Upvotes

Hey all,

I am a daily rider in San Francisco, currently riding an REI CO-OP city bike. Looking to upgrade to something that will treat me better on my longer weekend rides or for when I extend my commute. Not sure I’m looking for something to ride daily. I’m often doing 30+ miles around the city or in Marin on the weekend and sometimes weeks days. Trying to drive between a gravel bike or a road. Have had some interests in canyon or specialized. Likely the grizl or the crux? But not sure if I should focus more on a road bike rather than a gravel. I don’t ride gravel today but I’m interested in it. My budget is about 2.5-3.5k. Currently training for a gran Fondo in the spring.

Would love to get some thoughts from this group. Ian having a tough time deciding


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

2026 Trek Domane SL6 vs Scott Addict 30 WHICH ONE TO GET?!?

1 Upvotes

Alright guys these are my 2 options for endurance road bikes , I’m looking for someone with experience with any of these to weigh in for me ..

I can get both for the same price of 5k aud which im happy with

Any help would be great !! Thanks


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

BH bike

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5 Upvotes

I’m having trouble finding the reference number for this BH bike. I wanted to check which model it is?

Anyone have an idea of which model this is?