The only real option I could see is Silvermoon City given the blood elves’ association with arcane magic, or perhaps another settlement which has a drastically different approach to being a “magocracy” compared to Dalaran.

As I discuss with my friends about lore, many share their fatigue with patch 12.1.5 : Yet another invasion on Quel'Thalas, another "Villain of the week" episode that will soon be forgotten.

Yet, those events could have worked perfectly fine had the story been better structured :

Imagine if, instead of directly rallying the loas, the first questlines of Zul'Aman revolved around Zul'Jan desperate attempts at fighting the Twillight Blade, rallying the different tribes in his fight. By fighting the Twillight Blade ourself, we would discover that his force has been infiltrated by disguised cultists, conspiring to push him into delving into the amani dark secrets once prohibited by the loas and the traditions they created.

By exposing the ruse, more sensible amani like Zul'jarra would accept to collaborate with us. Sadly, it would be too late to stop Zul'Jan from unleashing Ula'tek into Zul'Aman and causing chaos. Many followers of Zul'Jan would progressively switch side as they see the results of their transgression. As they proved their loyalty to their old values again, the loa would finally show up and offer their support.

Here things would be the same : Lor'Themar would firmly refuse to help the amani since the Sunwell itself is already under attack, stuck in a constant stalemate against the void. Xal'atath would shine through her sneaky plots as Kith'ix gets unleashed, overwhelming the exhausted amani forces to reach Quel'thalas.

As SIlvermoon gets attacked by the unleashed Aqir, they would be forced to deploy some members of the armies of the light, progressively weakening their hold for the Sunwell. As things get more desperate, they would finally accept to consider Umbric proposition to attack into their world.

Then things go as they did in the first patch, but this time it's more believable that both side are willing to collaborate : they both saw what happened when they refused to listen one another. It would have also let more time for the Horde to arrive and defend against the aqir/ethereals/nagas, while the alliance supports the assault on the voidstorm.

It could have even caused some faction tension, as Silvermoon could blame the Alliance for making the situation worse by making the Well fall into darkness and seemingly failing their mission.

Then the transition into the worldcore would have felt like the logical transition, following Xal'atath path. Really, it fixes so many issues with the story.

The choking part was actually not that stupid, Sylvanas is a banshee, it makes sense to prevent her wail.

Near the end of the fight. When Tyrande heard the sound of warhorn, she just turned away and got totally distracted, even gave her back to Sylvanas. Especially just moments ago she was dodging her arrow!

Glad they let Sylvanas also go dumb by not taking the chance to shoot her or just teleport away.

As a veteran fighter, no way Tyrande should act so casual. Either keep alert while try to figure what happened, or totally ignore it if they want to show her wrath.

That's a big problem of Blizzard's writing on her, they just gave her superpower but didn't show her insight/skill in the fight well.

Post-Legion it seems it'd be difficult for them to get into the Horde or Alliance again and Dalaran is bust. I could see some still being active in the Plaguelands or around Night Elf lands for ones still in deep cover. I do hope we see them active again.

I mean it's the predominant Warcraft oriented human religion and humans are a descendant of... oh

Hey guys struggling to decide on what I want to do for my trolls surname in WoW Forever that fits with the lore and the world. I’m torn between an epitaph like adjective-noun or just making my last name Jin. Was wondering what others are doing or what people think makes the most sense?

It makes no sense for them to speak Darnassian, a place that didn't even exist until after the 3rd war...especially for Skyborne and Nightborne.

Was he human or a blood elf? What can the armor or the following canon say about him? We know that there were high elves and dwarves serving in the Crusade prior their disappearance.
On one hand, he could be just a vengeful blood elf blood mage who wanted nothing but revenge against the Scourge; on the other, he could have been a human, since only humans are allowed into the Crusade.
Constructive criticism and personal theories posted by the reader are beneficial for the next reader.

Human:
~ N/A

Blood Elf:
~ https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/npc=59789/thalnos-the-soulrender

So that’s Dalaran (which will presumably be rebuilt later down the line and likely have the Kirin Tor rule restored since… come on, it’s Dalaran. There’s no way they’re getting rid of that kingdom permanently), Alterac, Stromgarde and Lordaeron (if you don’t count the Desolate Council as the new Lordaeron government). I’m not expecting anything like a modern democratic state or something like that, but if we ever did see those nations restored, their ruling dynasties have been destroyed, so it might prevent a return to the type of monarchy that we see in Stormwind or Gilneas.

1. What if Tess Greymane had also become a worgen like her father, Darius Crowley and so many others?

2. What if the worgen curse could be inherited? Offical statements by the creators and lore states that it can’t, but what if that wasn’t the case? Even if it wasn’t a guarantee, it would still have serious implications for Gilnean culture, how they perceive the curse in the long term, and what that means for future generations.

I was shocked to see the size of the Coiled Isle on the world map, in relation to the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms. The Isle seems to be larger than all of the human starting zones combined! Is it that large on the world map simply to have a new zone stand out more? Or is it actually canon that the Coiled Island is that massive?

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24313105/watch-the-wow-forever-short-story-unbowed

Direct link to Short Story

Highly recommend reading the short story, the Youtube video only has the dialogue and not the narration.

A story following Cormack, a Forsaken that was a Scarlet Crusader and the son of Gavrinrad the Dire, and being approached by Danitha, the leader of the Forsaken Paladin Order.

Edit: Over my lunch break posting summary

• Begins with Crusaders killing Forsaken from an intercepted caravan. Cormack, our Forsaken MC, is watching from the shadows. He is hunting his murderer, Arec Mistmantle. He watches them dedicate a pyre to Gavinrad the Dire

• Cormack attacks, yelling Arec is a traitor. Cormack was a member of the Crusade that Arec killed. Cormack rips out Arec's throat with his teeth. Then gets hit with backlash for using the light during the fight that he had been keeping at bay.

• Cormack heals his injuries using the light, albeit painfully

• Cormack follows the path of a survivor from the caravan. She does not trust him because she sees him wearing a Crusade tabard. He offenders her saying she just wasn't strong enough to protect their things and she attacks him. She is a mage. She points out she knows he watched the Crusade kill the caravan before intervening and he probably sees them as abominations.

• They fight for a bit, with Cormack aiming to disarm. Some nice description of arcane magic and how it bends reality and how you can disrupt mage's spells. Ultimately he pins her and uses the light to surge within but stops it before it consumes her and they talk. I like some of the quotes here a lot!

“No one wanted this,” she said, voice steady. “Becoming a mockery of everything we were in life. To exist each day leashed to a presence forcing you to do unspeakable things. Only to have free will now and exist in a world that sees you as something to be rid of. To be truly forsaken."...

“To have one place in all of Azeroth where no one tries to return you to the dirt."

• Cormack muses about how he remembers believing in the Crusade and that ironclad conviction. He rips off his tabard. His hammer is labelled "No'Darador" or "We Serve" and reminds him of his oath to the light.

• He goes to his own grave where Danitha approaches him. She reminds him "You trained your whole life in service of others, not to quit when it became difficult.” and how choosing to keep going isn't the wrong choice but the more difficult one.

“As I see it,” she continued, “only two things keep those of us with free-will from returning to oblivion. The first is being strong enough to stand when the world rejects you. The second? Maintaining the will to fight despite that.”

• Danitha has been watching him the whole time. She notes he has done this twice, and still calls on the light despite the suffering. Cormack is revealed to be Gavrinrad the Dire's son. Danitha bids him to remember his father's words.

• Cormack calls upon the Light and realizes beneath the pain and agony, he can still feel its warmth and hope. He chooses to join with Danitha.

Lots of talk about how The Lich King would take place in WoW Forever. Well fittingly enough I have some fanfic I spinned into a "content patch" which I would like to see instead of redoing WotLK, I dont think Northrend as it was fits in forever, and not the story of us being this superdude who takes on the Lich King. Instead here we take on a lesser scale but still dangerous threat filled with mystery, where we are not the focus of the story. I have ideas about intents and reasons for the Lich King but I cant decide yet. We as the player are more of a part of the fighting force for our faction than superheroes. While the Lich King is the focus and mystery of the story.

Shadows and Frost

In the far north of Kalimdor, beyond the snow-covered forests of Winterspring and the frozen cliffs overlooking the sea, something sinister has begun to stir beneath the ice.

Ships that sail too far north vanish without a trace. Strange blue lights flicker beneath the waves. Dead animals appear along the coastline, their bodies frozen solid despite showing no signs of natural decay. And from the highest peaks of Winterspring, scouts have begun reporting a disturbing sight on the northern horizon.

An island has appeared where no island existed before. Upon it, the Scourge has established a foothold. Whispers of the Lich King travels in the cold winds.

It began with a series of violent storms sweeping across the northern sea. For several nights, the skies above northern Winterspring glow with unnatural auroras, while tremors shook the coastal cliffs.

When the storms finally subside, a massive island of black ice has emerged from the sea.

At its center stands a fortress of jagged obsidian towers, surrounded by glaciers, bone-white ramparts, and frozen shipwrecks. A vast necropolis hangs above the fortress, held aloft by chains of enchanted frost and necromantic energy. Pale blue runes burn across its underside, illuminating the fortress below.

The island is named Frostgrave by the first scouts who return alive. And the fortress, Black Ice Bulwark.

The Lich King does not announce his arrival to Kalimdor. He does not march at the head of an army, nor does he send a herald to proclaim his dominion. Instead, he watches.

From the Frozen Throne, his consciousness extends through Black Ice Bulwark, observing the movements of the living and the dead. His presence is felt in the sudden stillness of the blizzards, in the glowing eyes of Scourge commanders, and in the dreams of those who sleep too close to the northern coast.

Small raiding parties of the Scourge strike isolated camps and disappear into the blizzards. Furbolg hunting grounds become silent. Abandoned nightelf watchposts are found filled with frozen corpses standing upright, as if awaiting orders. Then the dead begin appearing farther inland in the north of Winterspring.

What do The Lich King want in Kalimdor? How do we defend ourselves against this new threat?

New content

Northern Winterspring reworked, now under Scourge threat, additional questlines level 55-60. Players defend the local settlements and inhabitants.

Frostgrave. New zone level 57-60. Players take the fight to the Scourge, finds out about Frostgraves creation and weaknesses.

Frozen Shore. New dungeon level 56-60. 4 bosses. Located in the most northern part of Winterspring. Players help breaking the Scourge beachhead in Winterspring.

The Glacial Pit. New dungeon level 57-60. 6 bosses. Located in Frostgrave. Players defeat a source for Frostgraves magical defenses and can sieze a sigil to pass through Black Ice Bulwarks gate (attunement).

Black Ice Bulwark. New raid 20-man. 8 bosses. Players assault the heart of the new Scourge threat. However, the Lich King himself remains absent. His broader plans are not fully revealed.

Blizzard clearly remembers he exists, he's getting his own lorewalking story in echoes of the worldcore. But Liadrin spends everything she has against Kith'ix while the one keeper with history against him isn't there, not even a mention in the campaign after. Feels like they forgot him and remembered because players started talking about Tyr, or maybe they're saving him for something bigger?

Would have been a good way to reintroduce him to the saga

Kinda 2 questions here.

The first is when druids transform back to humanoid form from bear or cat, would they have blood and gore on their face and around their mouth and hands?

Then second, what do you think the general personality of druids is? I imagine at least feral druids to be a little more wild and possibly aggressive.

I know there’s clips with Arthas but do we get any cinematic abilities showcasing DK abilities ? Like what death and decay lore wise is suppose to look like and so on? Like I can imagine they death grip would just basically be a force pull with the tendrils just adding to gameplay visuals but curious what certain abilities are suppose to look like on a cinematic side

Hey all i just saw there are playable broken Draenei in the WoW: Dungeons and Dragons crossover book. I’m pretty excited for that but my favorite class is priest, and i know broken became shamans because they lost their connection to the light via the Naaru as a result of their fel corruption.

If i wanted to roleplay as a broken priest, should i just be a shadow priest? Or could I justify reconnecting to the light somehow, similar to undead holy priests? Wondering if this has ever been explored in lore.

With the WoW Forever launch reset right around the corner, looking back at the original Warcraft 1 lore makes you realize how hilariously chaotic the story actually was before twenty years of expansions bloated it.

When you strip away the encyclopedia entries, the actual chain of events is wild:

1. The Friend Group: Stormwind's entire defense relied on three childhood friends. One runs the economy (Llane), one runs the army (Lothar), and the third is the all-powerful cosmic guardian (Medivh). An incredibly balanced distribution of power with absolutely zero ways for things to go wrong.
2. The Ghosting: Medivh literally teases Gul'dan with visions of incredible real estate, opens a tiny crack in reality, and then just straight-up stops answering his messages for weeks while the orc council goes into a full organizational panic.
3. The Tactical Error: The Horde vanguards charging a massive stone fortress expecting zero resistance after their entire basis of military intelligence was a peaceful peasant holding a rake.

It's a brilliant, self-contained tragedy, but the political choices are hilarious when you lay them out flat.

What's your favorite piece of completely unhinged lore from the RTS era that got swept under the rug later on? 

Hi all,

I'm out of my reading slump and looking ahead to WoW Forever, I'm going to try to binge a few books in preparation as I'd like to play on the RP-PvP server so want to immerse myself into the lore a bit more of WoW Classic (and then beyond). Could someone confirm whether the below remains the best order/books to read so I'm ready to jump into WoW Classic and read those quests?

Rise of the Horde by Christie Golden (book)

The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb (book)

Tides of Darkness by Aaron Rosenberg (book)

Beyond the Dark Portal by Rosenberg and Golden (book)

Lord of the Clans by Christie Golden (book)

Of Blood And Honor by Chris Metzen (book)

Day of the Dragon by Richard A. Knaak (book)

Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden (book)

Vol'jin: The Judgment by Brian Kindregan (short story)

Cycle of Hatred by Keith R. A. DeCandido (book)

War of the Anicents Trilogy by Richard A. Knaak (book)

Ashbringer by Mickey Neilson (comic)

War of the Shifting Sands by Mickey Neilson (short story)

Road to Damnation by Evelyn Fredricksen (short story)

Visage Day by Steve Danuser (short story)

Also, not sure if this is the best place to ask, but if there's any immersion addons / lore addons for WoW Forever I should have an eye on that'd be cool.

I’m just wondering if there is a lore reason why priests that use holy magic have the ability to use shadow magic as well? Isn’t that contradictory?

Hello everyone,

I main a Death Knight and am wondering if I should give up using some spells that seem questionable to use, given my character's story and morals.

My character is very dedicated to a redemptive journey and struggles daily to find a way to reconnect to the Light.

The issue is the server I play on is PvP intensive and I don't want to avoid pvping. If anything I'd play in a subpar way without using some spells.

For example, would you say raising a minion and sacrificing it through Death Pact would be extremely questionable before the Church?

Of course, I know the existence of DKs in itself is questionable and that the Church of the Light would probably advise them to seek a final death in battle as fast as possible, but I feel like there's a difference between repeatedly desecrating buried corpses and continuing to exist as undead, no?

I appreciate all feedback. Thanks.

I was contemplating the addition of undead paladins in lore, and thinking about how they might handle Arthas in WoW Forever. It crossed my mind that it might be a possibility the Forsaken could attempt to retrieve and raise the body of Uther at some point in the future. I would find it interesting, perhaps it's a silly notion.

Are there any reasons this couldn't or shouldn't happen, and how would anyone reading this feel about an event like that?

Given how much time I've spent recently criticising Aman’Thul, I may be an unlikely candidate to serve as his defence counsel. I've certainly expressed my enthusiasm for the sentiment 'fuck Aman’Thul' on more than one occasion. Nevertheless, with The Last Titan approaching, I'd love to see Blizzard explore a more sympathetic interpretation of the Highfather. The argument I'd like to entertain is that Aman’Thul's commitment to preserving existence might be entirely sincere, and that his increasingly authoritarian behaviour could arise from the very responsibilities he believes himself obliged to fulfil. There's considerable tragedy in the possibility that someone might devote themselves to protecting life, only to become so convinced of their own judgement that they gradually lose sight of what makes that life worth protecting.

Consider Aman’Thul's origins. According to Chronicle, he was the first Titan to awaken, travelling the Great Dark Beyond in search of others like himself. He discovered sleeping world-souls, nurtured them and eventually established the Pantheon. Their purpose was to bring stability to a universe threatened by forces capable of destroying or corrupting entire worlds. It's difficult to comprehend what leading such an undertaking would entail. Aman’Thul must make decisions whose consequences extend far beyond any individual civilisation, with the knowledge that a mistake could prove catastrophic. We might reasonably question his methods, but the responsibility itself is real. The question is whether carrying it for countless millennia has made him increasingly unwilling to tolerate anything beyond his control.

The Pantheon's confrontation with Sargeras provides the strongest evidence that Aman’Thul's original convictions deserve some sympathy. When Sargeras concluded that the only way to prevent the Void from claiming existence was to destroy life throughout the cosmos, the other Titans rejected him. Aman’Thul personally attempted to reason with his former champion, presenting Azeroth as a world-soul whose potential might offer another solution. When persuasion failed, the Pantheon resisted Sargeras and was destroyed. This is important because their disagreement concerned something fundamental. Sargeras had decided that the possibility of universal corruption justified universal extermination. Aman’Thul believed that existence remained worth preserving, even when its survival could not be guaranteed. Whatever we eventually discover about the Titans' intentions for Azeroth, that distinction matters.

Yet their conflict also reveals a danger that Aman’Thul may share with his fallen brother. Sargeras' certainty eventually became so absolute that he could no longer entertain alternatives. His judgement was, to him, sufficient justification for determining the fate of everyone else. If Aman’Thul has come to regard Order as the only means of securing existence, he risks developing a similar moral blindness. His intervention against Y’Shaarj offers an interesting example. Faced with an Old God that the titan-forged struggled to overcome, he destroyed it directly, inadvertently tearing open a wound in Azeroth. The Pantheon subsequently recognised the consequences and imprisoned the remaining Old Gods instead. There was a disastrous error of judgement, but also evidence that the Titans could learn from their mistakes. It would be interesting to discover whether Aman’Thul has retained that capacity.

The legend of Elun’Ahir presents a much harder case for the defence. Eonar plants a gift from Elune upon Azeroth, hoping that the influence of Life might help overcome the Black Empire. Aman’Thul condemns the resulting tree as uncontrolled chaos and tears it from the earth. Although the story is explicitly presented as a legend, its depiction of the Highfather is deeply troubling. We can speculate that he regarded the introduction of another cosmic influence upon an already endangered world-soul as an unacceptable risk. Life is itself a cosmic force, and there is no reason to assume that its influence must always be benign. However, the legend provides no indication that Elun’Ahir posed such a threat. His response suggests that the preservation of Order had become more important to him than considering whether Eonar's approach might have merit. The very being entrusted with maintaining stability appears incapable of tolerating an alternative vision of how that stability might be achieved.

I'm reminded of Ikaris in Marvel's Eternals. His devotion to Arishem's cosmic design places him in an appalling moral position. He believes that fulfilling his duty serves a purpose vastly greater than the immediate lives at stake, even though doing so would require the destruction of a world whose inhabitants he has spent millennia protecting. His love for Sersi and his attachment to humanity make the conflict painful, but ultimately cannot overcome his conviction that he must fulfil his purpose. The comparison has limits, since Ikaris serves a higher authority whereas Aman’Thul leads the Pantheon. Nevertheless, the underlying predicament is fascinating. Both invite us to consider how someone might come to regard terrible decisions as moral necessities, particularly when abandoning those decisions would mean questioning the purpose to which they have devoted their existence.

There's a related problem that I explored in my recent piece on Neltharion. Another commenter and I discussed the overwhelming responsibilities placed upon the Dragon Aspects, particularly the Earth-Warder. Neltharion was tasked with safeguarding the depths of Azeroth, enduring pressures that eventually contributed to his corruption. Aman’Thul personally empowered Nozdormu with dominion over time, a gift accompanied by knowledge of his eventual death. The Pantheon entrusted these beings with responsibilities that would shape, and sometimes devastate, their lives. Perhaps Aman’Thul has become so accustomed to carrying the burdens of cosmic stewardship that he has difficulty recognising what those same expectations might cost others. There would be something tragic in discovering that, in attempting to distribute his own responsibilities, he had simply reproduced their cruellest aspects among the beings he intended to empower.

My earlier writing about Skitter and Sargeras remains important here. The scale of a cosmic responsibility cannot render individual lives insignificant. To borrow a thought from theology, even a good thing can become an idol when it is elevated above everything it was originally supposed to serve. Order can nurture life, provide stability and protect against destruction, but devotion to Order becomes dangerous when the lives it was intended to preserve are subordinated to its demands. If Aman’Thul genuinely believes himself responsible for protecting existence, he must eventually confront the possibility that his methods have compromised the very principles that once justified his authority.

That's why I'd love The Last Titan to give the Pantheon meaningful disagreements rather than presenting them as a single, unified authority. Eonar's relationship with Life already offers the possibility of a different understanding of their purpose, and seeing her challenge Aman’Thul could give both characters considerably more depth. I'd also welcome some acknowledgement of what the Dragon Aspects accomplished in the Titans' absence, and of the suffering they endured while fulfilling their charge. Aman’Thul himself has experienced betrayal, destruction and the apparent failure of his life's work. There's plenty of material here for a character who has become increasingly controlling through fear of failing those who depend upon him.

Ultimately, I'd find that portrayal far more compelling than a straightforward cosmic tyrant. Aman’Thul could be sincere in his intentions, admirable in some of his convictions and profoundly mistaken in how he exercises his authority. Indeed, the possibility that the qualities which once made him a worthy leader have gradually become the source of his greatest failures is what makes him interesting. Perhaps, after aeons spent trying to secure the future of countless worlds, his greatest act of stewardship would be to recognise that protecting a world does not entitle him to determine what it must become.