r/Natalism • u/gjcjsbskfkskfjd • 3d ago
Some anti-natalists claim that declining birth rates are not a problem because AI will make humans much less necessary. This claim is completely wrong.
Even if AI advances dramatically, new human beings will still be necessary in the future, so declining birth rates are still a serious problem.
Humans are also essential in the economic sphere. AI does not pay taxes or consume goods and services in the way humans do. For example, AI does not eat at restaurants, AI doesn't buy cars, houses, smartphones, etc. Humans work and pay taxes, while AI itself does not pay taxes or consume goods and services as an economic agent. So even in the future, humans will remain essential to the economy.
A pension system can only function if new generations contribute funds.
And The idea that one can simply use the money saved from not raising children to pay for elderly care in the future is complete nonsense.
In a future defined by low birth rates, the elderly population will grow while the younger population shrinks; this will lead to an overwhelming demand for elderly care workers that far outstrips supply,
driving costs to such exorbitant levels that such services will effectively be out of reach.
Humans are also essential in the military sphere. We are already using autonomous and explosive drones, but drones cannot perform many of the tasks that human soldiers can, such as building defensive positions, maintaining and repairing equipment, and carrying out various other tasks in the field.
Therefore, humans will still be necessary even in the age of AI.
And the larger the population, the larger the pool of people who can be drafted into the military by conscription when the country is under attack. This means that declining birth rates are also a serious problem for national defense, and it is an issue that must be addressed.
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u/Slow-Ostrich-8570 3d ago
This conversation makes no sense to me.
Giving birth for the sake of the economy is stupid and sheep like. Most governments don't give a shit about us common plebes. You become a parent because you want to be a parent.
For civic-duty to apply, governments would have to serve the population, which they don't. So do what you want for yourself.
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u/ananasz27 3d ago
I live in Hungary where aging is combined with huge emigration and let me tell you, it's grim. I live in a commie block with a bunch of childless old people who starting to get dementia and mobility issues and they are basicly stucked in their homes because we dont have elevators. One day they will fall in their apartments and could not get up and will die there alone. No amount of AI will solve this.
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u/Top-Adhesiveness3209 3d ago
Same in Bulgaria. Actually a bit worse. We lost 30% of the population in the past 40 years. Maybe it's time to legalise euthanasia????
All Eastern and Central Europe has aged.
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u/ananasz27 3d ago
You guys are in a really bad spot because we hungarians can import our minorities from Romania, Slovakia etc (soma 400k already immigrated to Hungary after the fall of communism) as a last resort but you dont even have this option. I'm really sad about the state of Bulgaria because you are great people.
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u/Hadal_Benthos 2d ago
No amount of AI will solve this
– Assistant, call the ambulance and unlock the door for the crew when they arrive.
And that's even without any robots.
Also "no elevators" is a legacy infrastructure problem, not a birth rate problem.
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u/Klanciault 3d ago
Really? Pretty sure caretaker robots could solve this easily
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u/ananasz27 3d ago
We dont even have money for an elevator, let alone caretaker robots. As I said below, minimum pension is 87 dollar a month.
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u/WinterGuarantee2957 3d ago
One day they will fall in their apartments and could not get up and will die there alone.
Who cares how anyone dies and what happens to their body when they have already lived their lives to the fullest ? Dying on an hospital bed with nurses around who have no emotional connection with you and who just look at you with disgust while wishing that you pass away soon and stop being a burden to them is even more pathetic.
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u/Lazy_Dragonfly_5447 3d ago
I have not really heard anyone say this, but regardless, if we just think supply and demand, if the demand for elder care is so high then humans will start moving into that profession, which would probably result in cutting prices below that level. I just don’t think elder care is that specialized that it would have a problem with being too expensive for individual elders.
Same argument applies to the national defence.
You are acting as though there will be no humans at all remaining.
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u/ananasz27 3d ago
If you live in the us than you are probably right, but in Hungary and other eastern european countries the demand for elder care is huge but we have staff shortages because we simply cannot compete with Austria, Germany or the Uk where care workers earn 4-5 times what a hungarian hospitals or old folks homes can offer.
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u/Business-Let-6692 3d ago
So basically the whole reason to have more children is to support the economic system/be consumers?
That's why I don't want to have kids. If there are less kids, the system HAS to change. I don't believe people were meant to live in giant cities living in a closet.
When there are less of us we have more individual value. Housing costs will go down, and the value of labor will go up.
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u/sarah_impalin76 2d ago
declining birth rates are also a serious problem for national defense, and it is an issue that must be addressed.
so lets have kids so they can die in battle? I would rather not send my child to doom look around the world is screwed we might need the kids but the kids don't need us. Kids don't need to be bought into this shit that is your choice...
Send your kid to hell or never bring them to earth we are being told to prepare for things fucking up and I don't think its a coincidence world powers are realigning fascism is on the rise war is looking more likely is this the future you want for your kids? even if they don't end up in a war and the environment doesn't collapse and we don't have food shortages, trash is still piling up, the air is becoming more toxic, life is more expensive, jobs are less secure, privacy is dead and the internet exists.
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u/WinterGuarantee2957 3d ago
No one said AI will completely replace humans. AI will just make most of the humans irrelevant. So, world will be a better place with less humans, say 4 billion, as compared to 8 billion we have now, (and half of them currently live in poverty).
If we allow the population to rise indefinitely, there will only be more wars and famines in the future.
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u/Free-Cartoonist3134 2d ago
"So, world will be a better place with less humans,"
So more people is bad, does that apply to antinatalists as well? By this logic wouldn't the world improve if all antinatalists such as yourself made their exit?
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u/SingingPoet77 3d ago
Climate change will make migration necessary, and demographics will even out as foreign workers come in. When all countries decline enough, we may actually hit a sustainable population for this planet
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u/Pdawnm 3d ago
You mention that humans consume and pay taxes, which AI doesn't, so the humans' role in the economy is essential - but humans do so with what money? Typically it's money they earned in exchange for some labor/service. If AI replaces labor, where do humans get the finance to consume/pay tax? That's the essential question.
Regarding elder care and the military as being essential human sourced jobs - there's no reason to believe that a lot of the current labor in these fields cannot be replaced with AI/robotics.