r/IntelligenceScaling • u/Obvious_Ad_6250 • Jul 26 '26
Hot take,suzune Is equal tò ichinose and ryuen in scd and there Is no big gap between the 3
For years the general consesous on this matchup would horikita losing tò both with different gaps.
The gaps can come from High tò mid High tò even ridicolous takes like no or very low diffs wich are not supported by any scaling form whatsoever
The reasoning behind this mostly comes from a supposed lacks of comparable feats and the fact that She somehow Always get """carried""'"
Things in wich i disagree.in my opinion this take mostly comes from a lack of knowledge rather than of feats i had the pleasure tò debate many people Who had similiar takes tò the One i mentioned and no One was able tò gave a rational reason for that most of the times they either deliberately or uncouscely prove tò know very Little about her scaling not tò mention the ridicolous amout of headcanon and misinformation around her.
Thanks to the slander post many falsehood based on low interpretation of the novel have been dispersed both in the Main sub and by consequences in the scd One.
When i made my Mello vs suzune post instead of esaustive opinion on how Mello would be superior i only recieved things like.
"Mello no diffs"
"Get suzune pass Misa"
And cc.
I Aldo saw people actually arguing why they disagreed but It was like arguing tò a Wall cuz their arguments were Just
"Mello had this feat in this category while suzune Is fodder"
Same thing went for my near vs suzune where people would Just Say that near no diffs while never proving why that Is.
I think that most of this comments not only come from ignorance but Also by the widespread of falsehoods such as
In y2v1 supposed antifeat where She could not predict that housen would beat her despite It being a literal scene where nanase explains how only the First years knew about the free violence rules that made phsical violence now tolerated thing that no second or third year knew but that somehow suzune had tò predict especialy since acording tò the normal rules they were used too if hosen did such things he would expell himself no wonder in y1 ryuen had tò Hide whenever he did such things and leave no proff.
Then there the usual double standards.
In y2v6 they criticize her for winning the sports festival with arisu absence despite the fact that It was One of the conditions they had with ryuen and from wich he also benefitted but She Is the only One Who gets criticized.
In y3v1 She gets slandered for not seeing the ichinose,koji Alliance despite her not having no info on that thing that kei did but somehow ryuen Is assolved from that.
The y3v3 kiyonami Alliance Is praised by the fans as the perfect team .
But in every volume where koji and suzune cooperate Just like that suzune Is Always the carried One.
While honami Is the One with "agency" because She searched if koji was telling the thruths in vol y3v1.
But no One of these are as false as this next misinterpretation.
Y2v12 Is considered as a definitive proff that there Is a big gap between the other Leaders and her .depite kinu both telling US and showing that It was advantagenous for honami.
Many fans have find a way tò minimizze this advantages and even saying things like the exam suposedely pretends every scd category except fsiq wich Is ridicolous but even more if you consider the suzune vs honami matchup.
People use the argument of arisu High diffing ryuen as proff that suzune could do Better wich Is wrong since the ryuerisu matchup Is very different and not at the Same scale of gap of the honasuzu One let me explain
First no One knew what the exam was about before It was anounced people try tò argue that suzu could have prepared Better wich i disagrees
No info gathering.
Even if Suzy used kushida tò target info before the exam so tò be prepared at any variables It would be completely useless since honami info gathering in the school Is unmatched.
Honami has a decent knowledge on her classmates while suzune has no knowledge on ichinose ones(i aso Heard beliefs like that suzu Lost cuz hona knew her classmates Better than her wich Is beyond absurd for anyone Who read the novel)
(This piece Is from the horikita document ,thanks ganve kun)
Suzune lost to Ichinose 7–0. Some say it was 10–0 because of the final display, but that isn’t accurate. To begin with, it isn’t a score—it’s a life counter. Since it’s a life-based system, each life Suzune lost is effectively a point. In other words, Ichinose scored 7 points.
In my view, from 1 to 100%, Suzune’s chances of winning were around 1–3%. Not just for Suzune, but for almost any low-tier, mid-tier, and even high-tier participant—though each with different probabilities. The situation itself was simply too unfair.
The exam doesn’t measure academic knowledge or physical strength; it measures the ability to read gestures, microexpressions, and everyday social dynamics. (EP + EU)
Ichinose has spent two years deeply connecting with every student in her year. She knows their habits, their looks, and how they lie. Meanwhile, Suzune spent 10 years of her life completely isolated. Although she has improved, she has only been socializing for a few months. She is essentially playing in Ichinose’s “home field.”
If Suzune and Ichinose had exactly the same level of skill in reading people, Suzune would lose 100% of the time. Ichinose enters the board as a General with 10 lives, while Suzune, as a Mid Guard, has only 7 lives. To win on equal footing, Suzune would need to be about 30% superior to Ichinose just to compensate for the life gap—something impossible in her weakest area.
Suzune burned her “elite group” to secure victory against Kanzaki. Against Ichinose, the rules force her to use her less capable students—those harder to read or more prone to making mistakes for personal gain (like Shinohara).
Ichinose’s class is cohesive, intelligent, and team-oriented. Suzune’s class is filled with individuals who prioritize private points over collective benefit, giving Ichinose “easy targets” to quickly wear down Suzune’s 7 lives.
Even if a miracle occurred and Suzune, through intuition or luck, managed to individually outperform Ichinose and corner her, Ichinose could use her Traitor privilege—allowing her to communicate with her classmates and gain additional flexibility.
By doing so, Ichinose’s class (which is highly proficient in this type of exam) would effectively become a perfect radar, revealing Suzune’s class roles each round. Suzune would be bombarded with precise information against her own group, destroying her remaining lives.
It was a situation where if she didn’t reach Ichinose’s level, she lost. If she reached Ichinose’s level, she lost. And even if she surpassed her, she still lost. The only ways Suzune could win were:
Betray Kiyotaka and use the Traitor right, reducing his chances of winning if she lost (counterproductive to her main goal: winning the exam).
Stall rounds until she could reuse her elite group—people she knows well (she didn’t have enough time because Ichinose was too strong).
Play with Ichinose’s psychology using information extracted from Kanzaki (Ichinose already knew, making it useless).
And her best strategy:
Reduce Ichinose’s lives as much as possible so Kiyotaka would have an easier time (the path she chose).
Which ultimately meant her defeat.
Her best strategy to win the exam was, paradoxically, to lose.
Holy man…
I estimated a 1–3% chance because it represents chaotic variables beyond strategic control, such as:
Ichinose suffering an unexpected mental or emotional breakdown mid-exam.
Ichinose’s classmates making extremely obvious behavioral mistakes, allowing Suzune to identify Honor roles by sheer luck.
In conclusion, under the exam’s rules and respecting her constraints, Suzune was essentially designed to lose that matchup. Her true “victory” wasn’t winning the battle, but wearing Ichinose down enough for Kiyotaka to step in and finish the exam effortlessly.
And all of this without even considering the many previously mentioned limitations that didn’t even allow her to fight properly or comfortably.
Such as
Many people use the following to belittle Suzune, so before discussing the confrontation, I would like to pause for a moment to list all the limitations and adversity that Suzune is currently facing:
Like everyone else, Suzune faces an inability to plan a strategy; the specific content of the matches is completely unknown. Without being able to narrow down information, it is frankly impossible to devise a strategy or prepare countermeasures in advance to ensure victory. This is something completely fatal for Suzune, who is not a genius like her competitors. Even so, she managed to formulate a battle strategy to face Ichinose. However, despite all the measures and precautions Suzune took to keep Kiyotaka’s role a secret and use him as a surprise factor, the information that he would be the general was leaked to the opposing class due to a traitor within her own class, ruining her strategic advantage before the exam even began. In other words, in a situation where strategies could not be formed, she managed to create one, and it was leaked by a traitor.
Suzune’s class has exactly 38 people. Subtracting the 3 representatives leaves 35 participants. This means that if even a single person is absent due to illness or any reason, they fall below the minimum and will automatically receive a penalty of 5 class points per missing person. Unlike her class (and Sakayanagi’s), the classes of Ryūen and Ichinose have 40 people. This means Suzune’s opponent starts the exam already gaining 10 additional class points simply for existing (thanks to the surplus participant benefit), so Suzune is already losing the exam before they even finish explaining the rules.
With Kiyotaka as the general and intending not to fight, Suzune is forced to assume the role of middle guard. This drastically reduces her margin of error because she must fight with a massive initial disadvantage against Ichinose’s class, being forced to win quickly and take many lives from the opponent to prevent the turn from reaching Kiyotaka. (7 lives vs. 22 lives)
The rules stipulate that the same group cannot be used consecutively; they must rest for one round. This limits Suzune’s tactical options when it comes to repeating lineups that work. This is problematic because, unlike the elite group selected by Suzune, the rest of her class prefers to prioritize their personal gains (the private points granted by executive roles or winning discussions) rather than actively helping Suzune win the special exam.
The representatives cannot leave the waiting room. This restriction on movement between floors and the confiscation of communication devices is intended to cut off any flow of information to participants. Since they are closely monitored, Suzune cannot risk performing any suspicious actions, meaning she cannot communicate with her classmates—leaving them completely on their own.
Suzune was forced to use her best pieces immediately to secure her plan. To face Kanzaki, she had to burn one of her best groups in the first discussion (calm, poker-faced students capable of reading the atmosphere and thinking quickly, such as Sudou, Miyake, or Matsushita). This implies that for subsequent discussions against Ichinose, her available groups will consist of less prepared students.
The content of the participants’ discussion is meaningless to the representatives. Suzune’s only task is to discern roles (such as honor students) based purely on microexpressions, everyday gestures, habits, and suspicious glances through a monitor. This need to evaluate the natural behavior of her classmates is Suzune’s weakest area, as she spent 10 years of her life isolated and only began interacting and socializing with them a few months ago. In contrast, she faces Ichinose, who is widely recognized for mastering this area perfectly.
Originally, the right to designate and interrogate the “Traitor” (which forced a confession under threat of expulsion) was the only path and key weapon Suzune had to fight strategically and balance the scales. When Kiyotaka demanded exclusive use of this resource, he stripped Suzune of her only chance to win through her own strategy, leaving her disarmed and forced to rely solely on her limited individual ability to identify her classmates.
And she wasn’t facing a normal Ichinose. She was not the friend she had met two years ago, not the same person she had formed an alliance with, not the same one she had overcome the Mixed Training Camp with without expulsions, nor the one who had been harassed by rumors. She was a new person thanks to Kiyotaka—someone unknown to Suzune, something Suzune had not yet realized. On the other hand, Ichinose knew her perfectly.
Not to mention her mental state. With no class points to lose, the exam seems safe, but the enormous number of points at stake (250 points if they win) is vital for Suzune’s dream of reaching Class A. This creates nervousness, concern, immense pressure as a leader, and a moderate level of stress that forces her to seek sugar to keep her brain functioning. And this pressure increases with Kiyotaka’s conditions—she would lose her best asset if she didn’t perform perfectly.
And this was not her only mental burden.
The representatives arrived at the building at 8:00 a.m. and had to endure two hours of isolated waiting, absorbing complex rules under an atmosphere of absolute silence before the exam began at 10:00 a.m. The sudden call to action after being confined in the waiting room without information (other than watching their classmates’ lives decrease) created physical strain and an even greater mental burden on her.
Although Suzune defeats Hamaguchi and Kanzaki (12 lives) while maintaining her 7 lives, the flow of the exam is a repetitive and continuous cycle of 5-minute rounds, 1-minute tablet decisions, and short 10-minute breaks. Suzune must use those brief rests not to relax, but to clear her mind of unnecessary thoughts, review the rules, and calculate the risks of her moves—accumulating mental fatigue before the final confrontation.
Not to mention the emotional strain and anger caused by Kanzaki, who humiliated himself by bowing deeply and repeatedly begging her to concede victory due to the desperate situation of Class D.
In short…
She couldn’t plan any advanced plans for the actual special exam.
What little she managed to plan was leaked to the opposing class by a traitor.
If even a single person from her class was absent for any reason, she would automatically receive a point penalty.
Her opponent began the exam with an automatic gain of ten additional class points simply for having more students.
She was forced to assume the role of Mid Guard with a drastically reduced margin of error (7 vs 22).
She had to win quickly and take many of the opponent’s lives to prevent the turn from reaching Kiyotaka.
The rules prohibited her from using the same group of students consecutively.
Most of her classmates prioritized their personal gain of private points over helping her win.
Absolute isolation and the confiscation of phones prevented her from communicating with her (incompetent) classmates to guide them.
She was forced to exhaust her elite group of participants in the prior match against Kanzaki.
She had to face Ichinose using remaining, less prepared student groups.
She couldn’t expect direct help from participant discussions because the content of the discussions lacked meaningful value.
The exam required her to evaluate natural behavior and microexpressions through a television monitor.
She was forced to fight in her weakest area due to her ten years of prior social isolation.
She was facing Ichinose in an area where her opponent possessed absolute and flawless mastery.
She was stripped by Kiyotaka of the “Traitor” right, which was her only strategic tool to balance the scales.
Her opponent perfectly understood her way of acting, while Suzune was unaware of Ichinose’s current true nature.
She carried immense pressure and stress due to the critical need to obtain 250 points to reach Class A.
She bore the mental weight of potentially losing Kiyotaka’s future support if she failed to achieve a perfect victory.
She suffered significant physical and mental exhaustion after enduring two hours of isolation and complete silence before the exam.
She accumulated severe mental fatigue due to the repetitive cycle of five-minute rounds and high-pressure decision-making.
She was forced to use her short ten-minute breaks to calculate risks instead of resting her mind.
She experienced a strong emotional burden and anger after witnessing Kanzaki’s desperate humiliation and pleas.
As you can see its really not the right situation tò use for a comparison but this Is not the only One .
Then there y2v10.
Wich has tò be contenxtualized.
First suzune Is the only leader Who doesnt know about ichinose sudden change by that point unlike ryuen and arisu so her falling for the trap of hona protecting her Friends makes sense from her point of view.
And her tactic Being predicted doesnt weaken her performance overall .
People like tò point out how She was forced at the end tò give up victory and ally with the other Leaders and on how She got free points from hona class aswell as a way tò disminish her while ignoring and inportant detail.
The tactic hona used tò counter suzu strategy was making and Alliance with ryuen thing that only worked because of the sudden hashimoto betrayal.
Who gave ryuen a reason tò ally and destroye Suzy chances of victory.
Now tell me without hashimoto betraying A class at that exact Moment how would be suzune be countered??
She was predicted but its not like that changes anything if the counter Attack Is a Alliance with no certainity tò exist in the First place?
Lets also adress this common headcanons like
"Honami sparing suzune because She was merciful"
The hell?
The reason why She kept giving free points tò suzune Is because She had tò do so in order To make arisu come last.where did people got that?.
"Honami could have destroyed Suzu class but She decided tò have Mercy"
The hell again?this has no basis whatsoever ,they were already predicting hona choices and were defending themselves from their Alliance before joining It.
This Is also a useless scenario tò make.why would hona ever Attack Suzy class??what benefit She would gain if her objectives Is arisu?
As you can see here even this situation has to be contenxtualized and gives no valid reason on having takes
Like honami>suzune no diffs
Other arguments regard y1v6.
It was clearly showed and stated that ryuen got outsmarted there but people Stil Will find a way tò make the victim Just kushida and try tò act like ryuen wasn't involved or something else
"Ryuen wasn't serious"
In order To make x come out he had tò beat suzune this a thing koji intself says in his monologue before the submission of the replies.
Plus even if this were true then i can use the reasoning that every win ryuen had on honami a d suzu in y1 was because they were at their weakest level.
So y1v5 becomss invalid cuz suzune was Stil naive and unexperienced same thing goes for y1v11 where hona even forgave him and didnt testimony.
Some have even made up theories were ryuen suposedely knows about what She was going tò do.thing that i already debunked in the past thanks tò ganve.
Other arguments are like
"Suzune Is lacking cuz She doesnt have year long schemes"
Wich year long schemes?
Cka that Is only 4 volumes long.
Katsuragi Plan Who Is barely two volumes long ?
X arc Who Is 3 volumes long and so on.
All of this volumes are only some months long and are different tactics Who have in common the fact that they want tò reach a goal.
Plus lenght#more complex?
Its not like that if your scheme Is 7 volumes long then Its automatically Better than a straightfoward 1 volume scheme.
Suzu schemes are shorter and straightfoward but this doesnt make them less complex .
And on the narrative.
The Leaders (except arisu)are all equal narrative as for now there Is no inplication of One of them being inferior tò the other .
They have different potentials
Hona One likely regards specific abilities and not every single scd category lke people at making It seem.
As you can see suzune has Always performed equally tò them and now thanks tò the ganve doc you can see how small the gap Is.
Suzune can take fsiq,,ei,si,reasoning,thinking ,sensory,phsicolpgy,manipulation,planning and even has arguments for deception wich i can elaborate. From ryuen
She can take all strategy,fsiq,rsn,thinking,sensory, phsichology,EM,Ep,Er, and has arguments for manipulation. From hona
This post was made tò promote
The (suzune revalutation series)
Its a series of analysis on suzune feats that i Will share both in the cote and scd sub with the goal tò bring more Awareness around her
This analysis can came either from the horikita document or by nice the One analysis
I Will also keep making full scale comparison on different characters and im currently Planning on near vs suzune full comparison with explanations that would be shared in a matter of days.
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u/Fuck-the-Mod Jul 26 '26
we've come plenty far from Arisu=Ryuen=Ichinose
I don't know if it's good or not but it is FAR
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u/Obvious_Ad_6250 Jul 26 '26
You meant far between suzune and the others??
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u/Fuck-the-Mod Jul 26 '26
no as in opinion has shifted quite far, Arisu is seen far above and closer to Ayanokoji while people are more critical of Ryuen and Ichinose (Horikita is also getting recognised but I don't think that changed much, it was critique again other characters mostly)
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u/CroquetQueen Jul 26 '26
For me Ichinose>Ryuen=Suzune
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u/Pretzels0314 Jul 26 '26
Honamid over Ryugoat?
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u/CroquetQueen Jul 26 '26
Boi Honami is only holding back by her mindset of playsafe around start but finally breaks that in y2 vol 9. She even has experience to be part of student council back in middle school before going ANHS + got highest score in entrance exam
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Obvious_Ad_6250 Jul 26 '26
Sorry but i don't think its right tò use matsuda theory and Canon togheter.
You basically proving that in order To beat suzune he has tò use Is doubtfully Canon version.
He doesnt take anything you gave him.exceot fsiq by narrative and reasoning
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u/Apprehensive-War4530 Jul 26 '26
Barely even Kanzaki or Hashimoto level