What the Jury didn't get to hear

[u/Alan_Prickman]

But should have done, in order to help them make a fully informed decision.

What was limined out, denied funding, objected to and sustained, or otherwise kept out?

🔔 OTHER PEOPLE CONFESSED🔔

✨️You will find the bell icon next to the section below if an individual mentioned in it confessed to the murders.Note that none of these people were suffering from psychosis, dosed up with Haldol, or in solitary confinement for 13 months at the time of their statements

I am working on getting relevant info together to link to the reports of each confession or self-incriminating statement

‼️The big one - Odinism and the 3rd party, as detailed in the first Franks Memo.

🔔The Franks Memo contains accounts of EF describing a bizarre aspect of the crime scene ("horns" in Abby's hair) that could only have been known to someone being present at the scene, plus his question to the investigators of "what would happen if my spit was found on the girls but I could explain, would I be in trouble?')🔔

✨️https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1GSLr69vTlVUeCi7gH5iRz1yEQd3oRgT4-hC1gVfz6ho/mobilebasic

✨️CS sketches and BH BS https://www.reddit.com/u/Alan_Prickman/s/OyfHs3Tja4

‼️The State's Motion In Limine - covering a number of issues, from 3rd party suspects BH, EF et al (Odinism), RL, and Anthony_Shots 3rd party suspects KK and TK

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1fd4HTZbFG6_PodmypFwXkb378_G36Mno2PtKmXK6G5s/mobilebasic

‼️Anthony_Shots and KK - Catfish account run by a man now serving 43 years for possession of CSAM

✨️🔔$1 mil spent on "Wabash clam jam" - river search based on information provided by KK where he allegedly waited in a red jeep near the scene of the crime whilst his father TK committed the murders, then disposed of the weapons used in the Wabash. This from the people who wouldn't spend $10 k on Bridge Guy height analysis or test hairs found at the scene for 7 years. 🔔

✨️Wabash search https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/HoFMqlptwU

✨️Anthony_Shots https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/nXFMu6dxEF

✨️KK affidavit https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hMkSf9ovQw39CDU1RGiB80FDghFXtZkx/view

‼️🔔RL, now deceased, owner of the property on which the girls' bodies were found, investigated as a suspect, giving a false alibi, defense had a witness lined up to him confessing to the murders whilst incarcerated for a parole violation🔔

✨️RL search warrants https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/6Ytc5BsCHj

✨️RL interview https://youtu.be/4yNdRfD23p0?si=UAVVhtNkPi8K8ITk

‼️GEOFENCE:

✨️Reconstructed FBI CAST report- collated info from court filings https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1lfj1j3QRIzwG4EMXaRQVj9ltmnDT8lCsUJ4rZK-dkuk/mobilebasic

✨️Yellowjackette's notes from the 1st August pre-trial hearing on the State's Motion in Limine (covers Agent Horan and excluded geofence info)

✨️Order granting Motion in Limine "cos paragraphs" https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HL1RH73ibOCowFopCj7GxR03qZQfOstB6hOyD7tIFLk/mobilebasic

✨️Lawyer commentary on the above: https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/Q6uaysYwH4

✨️More on Motion in Limine and other excluded info: https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/kppJzCqhzL

‼️PCA and other court documents originally sealed

✨️Verified request to prohibit public access to Court record https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gmr0eGJRCXi0y8l3Ky0tmzS5kWzKv3cH/view

✨️Media having to intervene to get it unsealed https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pno43aWqurXBaBp7sWdd9dsa9HQgsWVf/view

‼️Safekeeping hearing - where the defense lawyers were basically called liars and their Motion denied even though footage shown to jurors at the trial proved that they were absolutely correct in their description of the way he was treated.

✨️Safekeeping hearing transcript https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SsFsqx2uc5aPHXvLAql7QacBLUH6yIdd/view

✨️Motion for a temporary restraining order re use of handheld cameras at Westville https://drive.google.com/file/d/160VjpSZZi6GFuPtjpJnQ_VdnxSHTsvcd/view

‼️Judge Gull not updating the docket and disqualifying the defense lawyers over the Defendant's objections, necessitating 2 original actions against her

✨️Judge Gull playing fast and loose with the docket lead to concerned citizens starting to keep their own records to ensure that info doesn't get "Mullened" https://alleyesondelphi.github.io/ccs/

✨️Supreme Court written opinion on DQing defense https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ltZYdQK4Iwc98chX6DITyuTEfh3vxcYN/view

‼️Judge Gull holding a criminal contempt trial-within-a-trial on the Defendant's docket. Results in not finding them in contempt, but using the opportunity to file an order calling the defense team "sloppy, negligent and incompetent"

‼️Judge Gull refusing to authorise funding for experts, driving the defense to having to raise money for experts privately

✨️Motion for parity in resources https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1pJNkFTCNOxlXmZkjTU4w50Lq6QQ-rA-Z131cF_ay_3E/mobilebasic

✨️Ex parte order asking to reconsider funding for defense experts, 8th April https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/Kyi2b8Hz6N

✨️Private fundraiser https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/YYbGfLNwRN

‼️Discovery not being handed over in timely manner, not giving the defense experts enough time to do the work needed

✨️https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/16bNBH3y8mWaa9kUdb8OSbb0gVvTHMSJgdsOOEnHqPKk/mobilebasic

‼️Defense expert Tobin (metallurgy, in reference to ballistics) not allowed to testify

✨️State's Motion in Limine regarding defense expert witness Tobin) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ifZ0GvOBls-hiEMONaImcVOE0ady81Nu/view

‼️Robert Ives, Prosecutor before Mr McLeland, who gave several interviews regarding the oddness of the scene, called as a defense witness but having his subpoena quashed

✨️Motion to Quash subpoena https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1NJJ7P3DqUIRWccQSQYUvKe_7g_Z34YcXI9CkdogPn48/mobilebasic

‼️Suspects sketches not allowed - 4 sketches produced, 2 of them pushed for years as "the perpetrator". None of them depict RA

✨️State's Motion https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zb3Qs69guVxUcjmSVUT37nJPr06oY7P1/view

✨️Sketches https://imgur.com/a/FOSeVIT

‼️Agent Pohl not allowed to appear remotely to confirm that BW changes his story

✨️Motion for witness to appear remotely https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GMlvkQQjNax1N7vn-a8G563ifTuFvSCe/view

‼️Special Prosecutor Luttrull acted "in color", stripped of absolute and qualified immunity https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiDocs/s/2u7P1fzk3P

(huge thanks to @deblanc_jenna on Twitter for help with compiling the list and relevant links)

‼️Reconstructed investigation timeline/reports, based on the court filings https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/17c4FKPz2Wz6uC7DOoiJMezz9nPyJf_vCbeqon2nDDk0/mobilebasic

Please keep this thread on topic, and use today's general chat thread for everything else.

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[u/grownask]

I read the "More on MIL" as "more in the mother in law" and I was so confused....

[u/Alan_Prickman → u/grownask]

LOL. I'll edit to avoid further confuzzlement.

[u/black_cat_X2 → u/grownask]

I still do that sometimes even though I know better. Too much time on the drama subs!

[u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

Does anyone know if Gull even asked for Offer of Proof for a 3rd party argument? Or did the defense present in their argument at the trial when they filed to allow it in?

[u/Alan_Prickman → u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

They had several sidebars for offer of proof, denied every time. The most memorable was when she said there is no nexus and the Defense was like OK but what does the nexus actually mean to you? And she said DNA.

So, according to the Court, there is no nexus between this crime and RA either. So why is he on trial?

[u/HelixHarbinger → u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

I believe the testimony of Kevin Murphy was proffered on the record, however, multiple motions filed following the start of trial were denied as well as daily oral motions.

At the very least they prepared for it so the record is preserved.

[u/BCherd20]

Can someone refresh my memory why geofencing wasn't allowed in? 🤔 I mean, besides the obvious (Nicky asked and Mommy said ok), what was the argument?

[u/Alan_Prickman → u/BCherd20]

"Case law" and "what Nicky said", probably. That's usually what it is.

I'll look up the relevant links in a moment and edit them into this comment.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1HL1RH73ibOCowFopCj7GxR03qZQfOstB6hOyD7tIFLk/mobilebasic

[u/LawyersBeLawyering → u/BCherd20]

Nobody knows because there was never any case law or legal reasoning connected to it. McLeland said it was so unreliable that they never use it, so FYI - there is now precedence to undermine geofencing in any case he ever tries again.

[u/HelixHarbinger → u/BCherd20]

It was wholesale excluded in a blanket in limine motion that was granted by incorporating entire paragraphs.

(Nobody would know pursuant to the record without referencing the actual motion) there was no evidentiary hearing or testimony from the FBI (r) Kevin Horan who developed it.

The defense requested the court certify the order for interlocutory appeal and the court denied.

[u/International-Ing]

The geofencing data showing 3 phones in the area around the time of the murders, none of which were RA’s. This would have helped because some of the jury questions to the defense cell phone witness were about RA’s phone (if she could do same analysis on his phone).

They didn’t hear why some expert witnesses for the defense had to limit their analysis (funds). From their questions, at least one juror believes (wrongly) that this was about the defense deliberately choosing not to pursue certain angles. The inference being that the defense chose to not have their witnesses investigate things because it would be unfavorable to their client.

3rd party suspects because gull believes nexus means dna (which would exclude RA as a suspect).

3rd party suspect confession. It should have been allowed in particularly as defense states RA’s statements were false. Juries want alternative suspects. If someone else confessed, even if police believe it was false, this would give them an alternative suspect and/or an understanding about false confessions as relate to this case. Unlike RA, this third party suspect wasn’t held in solitary far from home.

Who one victim was texting (KK).

No witness sketches.

IDOC settlements and issues related to solitary confinement.

Why RA was put in IDOC.

Not allowed to play audio from the IDOC videos. Gull decided it would be akin to allowing RA to testify without having to be crossed (not correct legal interpretation). Meanwhile the state was able to play anything they had on RA with audio.

No FBI witness because he had medical condition and Gull wouldn’t allow videoconferencing testimony. Rules say it should be allowed.

No testimony about how toolmark identification is essentially junk science on undamaged weapons.

Then some other decisions such as:

Allowing audio from the “enhanced” bridge guy video and then tying this to bridge guy, even though his mouth was not moving when he was supposedly speaking. Given the distance, it would be moving.

Allowing the bridge guy witnesses to testify, none of whom testified bridge guy was RA. Then the prosecutor claimed in his closing that bridge guy is RA. I suppose that’s countered somewhat by some of their descriptions clearly being of a different person.

Allowing the prosecutor and officer to repeatedly bring up a supposed jail incident. (Threats to staff). More than once means it was deliberate and although the judge sustained the defense objection, the damage was done.

[u/IntrepidBox6556 → u/International-Ing]

Piggy backing on to “no FBI witnesses”, Doug Carter testified he was the one who booted the FBI from the investigation. Why did the defense not ask him why?

[u/smd1815 → u/International-Ing]

Allowing audio from the “enhanced” bridge guy video and then tying this to bridge guy, even though his mouth was not moving when he was supposedly speaking. Given the distance, it would be moving.

If the video was clear enough that you should have been able to see the mouth moving, should it not also have been clear enough to identify facial features as RA or not RA?

[u/k8ter8te → u/International-Ing]

Honest question, not picking a fight; can anyone point to the direct evidence of Libby messaging with KK? I’ve heard it purported a billion times but wondering if there is actual evidence, whether at trial or otherwise public due to FOIA?

[u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

Also, Gull herself called the defense incompetent, which is crazy, because ineffective counsel is one of the most approved appeals. I think his lawyers did a great job under the circumstances, but she probably gave RA a great shot at an appeal based on her stating that.

[u/-ifeelfantastic → u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

IIRC when the SCOIN order came back with counsel reinstated, they basically said you won't be able to claim ineffective counsel anymore 

edit: typo

[u/fojifesi → u/Ok_Enthusiasm_3503]

Gull herself called the defense incompetent

DARVO?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
“deny, attack, and reverse victim & offender”

[u/Danieller0se87]

I am literally going back and reading the entire franks motion because now that court has transpired and we learned nothing new I am going to highlight and post things that are compelling. Also BH oldest son Levi look identical to the sketch of the skinny kid seen by the mailboxes. His son Levi graduated to Master Mason a month after the murders. BH voice sound just like bridge guy. I’m sorry if I’m being extra guys, but I am on one publicly now lol

“performed by Click, Ferency, Murphy, and others, including the FBI. According to the summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter, “the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) of the FBI determined that the individual(s) responsible for the

pg.6

homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs.”5 This was news to the Defense as no member of the Unified Command in charge of the investigation revealed this information to the Defense during recent depositions. This includes Trooper Holeman who told the Defense that he didn’t remember if the FBI’s BAU unit determined one way or the other whether those with Nordic beliefs had been involved in the murders.” -I’ve always wondered about a profiler and I think this answers that “sufficiently.”

[u/LadyBatman8318]

So I will start with the big one, and I guess this will be for all our legal experts, who are amazing. I know she ruled out that the Odins couldn’t be brought into it, but what if in closing they could’ve said something like, and what about the guy who admitted to spitting on one of the girls and confess to both his sisters? They weren’t actually mentioning he was actually an Odin, but just a guy. Unfortunately, no one else was mentioned and to me that just would cement They only have one guy, and so it must be this guy, since there are no other suspects, and would lead me to believe that’s why some of them are voting guilty. I hope this makes sense.

[u/HelixHarbinger → u/LadyBatman8318]

Not introduced at trial, cannot use in closing.

[u/black_cat_X2 → u/LadyBatman8318]

The in limine also excluded several named suspects, including EF, BH, RL, KK and more.

[u/vctrlzzr420 → u/LadyBatman8318]

That would be a real curve ball and I think I’d be like wtf? They didn’t say that, must not hold water

[u/k8ter8te]

Wow, thanks for this; there’s so much to learn here.

[u/Calm-Artichoke-4615]

RL’s ex-girlfriend identifying his voice as the voice on the Bridge Guy recording.