r/TheGoodPlace • u/WandersFar Change can be scary but I’m an artist. It’s my job to be scared. • Nov 09 '18
Season Three Episode Discussion S03 E08 "The Worst Possible Use of Free Will"
Airs tonight at 8:30 PM, ESCL. ¹ (About an hour from when this post is live.)
Last episode, Michael finally told Eleanor about her and Chidi’s past relationship. Grab some popcorn, this is gonna be good.
¹ ESCL = Eastern Standard Clock Land
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
We finally get to meet Doug Forcett and Vicky, Shawn, Val & Glenn are all coming back?!
Next week is my birthday. This is like the best present ever.
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u/eat_beanss Nov 09 '18
How do you know that it is Doug Forcett?
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Rural Canada. Who else could it be?
Well, Doug was a stoner kid who lived in Calgary during the 1970s. One night, he got really high on mushrooms, and his best friend, Randy, said, "Hey, what do you think happens after we die?" And Doug just launched into this long monologue where he got like 92% correct.
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u/cloistered_around Nov 13 '18
Well he guessed the afterlife right, sure, but "the best example people can follow to get to the Good Place?" I don't know about that...
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u/WandersFar Nov 13 '18
Michael’s values are not human values.
To you and me, Doug Forcett is a silly stoner kid, hardly a paragon of virtue.
To Michael and the other denizens of the afterlife, he is the enlightened one.
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u/Not_Steve Nov 09 '18
Remember how excited Michael was when he first told Eleanor about Doug in Chapter 1? He was very proud to have gotten that picture, so of course Michael would think that Doug is the coolest and most influential person.
100% it's Doug.
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u/Pinsalinj Nov 12 '18
Also, Eleanor pointed at his picture during the episode, asking who that guy was. It felt like a subtle reminder of his existence and importance in the setting!
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u/sugarplumcow Nov 09 '18
He lived in Calgary in the 1970s. Perhaps he has moved off the grid to rural Canada since.
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u/holierthanthee Nov 09 '18
Here's a thought.... what if Doug is actually another incarnation of Jesus - which is why he knows so much about after-death. The way that Michael builds him up as the "coolest person on earth...someone everyone can look up to". Soooooo .... what if they all get saved by literally coming to Doug-Jesus?? What if they somehow inspire him to stop being a stoner and save the rest of the world too?
Too much ???
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u/EmmaTheRobot Nov 11 '18
Or he manages to get everyone high, and everyone chills out, and everyone gets in the good place.
Kind of like the weed tea scene in Ali G Indahouse
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u/mujie123 Nov 09 '18
Isn't there another hiatus from next week?
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
I did see people saying that, but the NBC schedule has this listed for next Thursday the 15th:
Michael and Janet visit the man they believe to be the blueprint for being a good person.
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u/Hungover52 Nov 09 '18
I wonder if we will get horrible Canadian accents? Or any Canadian guest stars? New love interest for someone, complicate things again?
What if it is Janet and Doug?
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u/redalastor Nov 10 '18
I wonder if we will get horrible Canadian accents? Or any Canadian guest stars? New love interest for someone, complicate things again?
That's pretty much a given since it's a Michael Schur show. When Brooklyn Nine Nine had an episode in Montreal, everyone there had a parisian accent.
I'm starting to think he's doing it on purpose.
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u/Hungover52 Nov 10 '18
Straw man comedy. It's harder to be offended if they are sooo far off base that it's silly.
At least that's my theory.
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u/RPuke Nov 10 '18
Hey! Next Friday is my birthday as well! Birthday buddies!
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
This show just tricked me into watching a clip show and I’m not even mad.
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u/ThatMorningAlarm Nov 09 '18
It kinda reminded me of Morty's Mind Blowers.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Another solid episode.
Harmon is behind both Community and Rick and Morty, so that makes sense.
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u/peanutsandfuck Nov 09 '18
Honestly I didn't realise it was a clip show until I came to this discussion thread. Best episode of the season so far in my opinion!
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u/Wheatley67 Nov 09 '18
All of them are new except the confession scene, I believe. I don’t count that as a clip show
Edit: I forgot they also repeated when Eleanor and Chidi told each other “I Love You”
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u/ComebackShane Nov 09 '18
But we saw it in the room, instead of through Mindy's "lookin' hole", at a different angle, so it was likely new footage.
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u/HareWarriorInTheDark Nov 10 '18
100% agree, didn’t feel like a clip show at l for me.
They did repeat the part where Eleanor confessed to being bad, that part was shot-for-shot I think. Didn’t bother me at all though.
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u/fallouthirteen Nov 09 '18
That's what I was thinking watching this. "No way, are they really going to do a clip show of the parts they skipped over?"
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Nov 09 '18
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Oh, I’m not complaining. It reminds me of Community’s clip show.
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Nov 09 '18
Omg I have to watch that episode now.
🎶 Something always brings me back to you // It never takes too long🎶
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u/OneGoodRib Nov 09 '18
That episode was a trip for me, because I hadn't rewatched any episode of the show before then, and had been watching on a week to week basis, so I genuinely thought at first I'd just missed a few episodes or forgotten some stuff, but then it kept going and I was like "Okay I'm pretty sure I didn't miss THAT many episodes, are all these fake??"
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u/Chilapox Nov 09 '18
I'm really surprised at how little I see these two shows compared. They definitely have some big differences but the overall emotional vibe I get from them is very similar and I feel like some of the characters from either show would fit right into the universe of the other.
I could definitely see Jeff Winger dating Eleanor Shellstrop or defending Jason Mendoza in court.
Or Joel McHale could make an excellent demon.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
I could definitely see Jeff Winger dating Eleanor Shellstrop
That would almost be incestuous. Jeff is basically Eleanor with a penis.
Troy is black Jason.
Abed is Janet with a penis.
Pierce is maybe S1 Michael when he was fully evil.
Annie is maybe Chidi, high-strung and intellectual.
Which leaves either Britta or Shirley for Tahani. Hmm, neither of those fit. Maybe Britta comes closest with her insufferable SJW-ism and Tahani’s disingenuous philanthropy.
But five out of six ain’t bad!
Joel McHale could make an excellent demon.
I’m picturing Trevor.
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u/MKoz628 Nov 09 '18
Can we get “Common Glue Factory Hobo Horse” as a flair option please?
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u/Galileo908 Nov 09 '18
I’m wondering why “JORTLES!” isn’t a flair yet.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Like the word, Jortles?
You can just choose Jason and change the quote to whatever you like.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Heard. Probably over the weekend.
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u/MKoz628 Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
You just earned 1500 points to the Good Place! But I can only give you one upvote.
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u/OneGoodRib Nov 09 '18
I'll also humbly request all the heaven pets get added as picture flairs sometime.
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u/Sazley Nov 09 '18
What was the "Ambien-Hamster Mishap"?
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u/elliethegreat Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 12 '18
I don't know but I want it as flair.
Edit: omg I now have it as flair. Thanks mods/flair fairies!!
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u/traindodge Nov 09 '18
MR PEANUT TATTOO
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
They have to show it now. It’s like Chekhov’s gun, but with embarrassing life choices.
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Nov 09 '18
Totally saw that! I want to know where is it???
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u/your-imaginaryfriend Nov 10 '18
Knowing Eleanor, it's probably not in a location they can show on TV.
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u/PureCFR Nov 09 '18
I didn’t think it was possible, but Eleanor was suddenly not a total smoke show.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
But she looked great in that dress by the lake.
(Also, she was literally smoking after Michael fried her brain and made her hair and teeth fall out…)
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u/galapagossquirrle Nov 09 '18
Tahani being tortured by herself is magical. Of course she’d get a mythical version of her
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18
you can't expect me to walk around with these flats all day like some common glue factory hobo-horse.
i love how her centaur is just as arrogant as Tahani herself!
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
It just occurred to me that’s probably a reference to Jameela twisting her ankle early in the shoot and spending the rest of the season in flats.
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u/RacerGal Nov 10 '18
I had to watch that line 3x because it was SO amazing. I’m gonna laugh for days every time I think about it.
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u/rnjbond Nov 09 '18
And sadly drove no self-reflection or self-awareness :(
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u/heytaradiddle Nov 09 '18
I mean, we have no idea if that's true. We only got the clips relevant to Eleanor falling in love with Chidi.
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u/see_mohn Nov 09 '18
“TOSTITOS presents a PUBLIC LIBRARY brought to you by GoDaddy”
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Nov 09 '18
Extra points cause I’m 99 percent sure godaddy is based on AZ
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u/hubwub Nov 09 '18
The headquarters is in Scottsdale.
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u/kkingfelix Nov 09 '18
For a long time, Tostitos sponsored the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18
just like every other place in Arizona, people shoot porn there once they close!
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u/MsMoneypennyLane Nov 12 '18
Oh god I never thought about why diners and libraries should have furniture you can wipe down with alcohol.
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Nov 09 '18
I see you trying to trick me into learning philosophy, Michael Schur
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u/rzldty Nov 09 '18
Honestly I think it's one of the "plus" points of this show. Other comedy shows only made us laugh, but this one made us laugh AND want to learn philosophy.
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Nov 09 '18
I'm glad they went back to it, there has been hardly any of that this season and I think it didn't feel quite the same without it.
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Nov 10 '18
Though I still haven't heard an argument against determinism that is quite satisfying enough to me.
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u/Xasmos Nov 11 '18
I found its treatment in this episode quite lacking. Eleanore has a point and Michael conflates free will with being predictable.
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u/runelight Nov 12 '18
any hyper-skeptic position is impossible to refute. How do you prove this isn't a simulation, or that you're just a brain in the jar that's receiving electrical impulses, etc ...
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u/thenacho1 Feb 11 '19
Here's my argument - who the hell cares? No matter whether or not we actually have free will, we feel like we do, and that's good enough for me. It's easy to get really into your head about the meaning of reality and why we're all here. I have anxiety, I do it all the time. What's important isn't torturing yourself with unanswerable questions that only bring you dread. What's important is living the best life you can, whatever that means to you personally.
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u/cottonstokes Nov 09 '18
I read sophie's world after season 1, I recommend it
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u/rcapina Nov 10 '18
This book was my intro to philosophy. I think someone left it behind after a potluck and it just sucked me in.
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Nov 09 '18
Ted Danson/Kristen Bell heavy episodes are the best episodes ❤️
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u/seattlechunny Nov 14 '18
They are the most veteran actors/actresses! I'm always impressed by Jameela Jamil's performance - she's sooooo good for a first time actor!
I think there was a question at Comic-Con where the cast was asked why they joined the project. Both Kristen Bell and Ted Danson said something about Michael Schur and each other, and then Manny goes "... because I was broke", and that is just freaking phenomenal, how they can be so on point for newbie actors!!
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u/lovetheblazer Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
This scene would be a great excuse to pair Kristen Bell with a sloth and watch her bawl again. Just saying 😉
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u/Calimie Nov 09 '18
She wouldn't have been able to act and would only have looked at it cooing ignoring the director, the script, and other actors.
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u/SlothFactsBot Nov 09 '18
Did someone mention sloths? Here's a random fact!
The algae in a three-toed sloths fur supplements the diet of the sloth. This algae growth would not be possible without the help of a species of moth which lays eggs in the sloths fur! Wow!
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18
this bot is so good that it almost feels like watching the show and Janet starts spewing out her "fun facts".
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u/TunerOfTuna Nov 09 '18
I expected more from Schur. He would be the type of person to make Bell have a sloth scene, and then have Elenor call the sloth ugly.
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u/SlothFactsBot Nov 09 '18
Did someone mention sloths? Here's a random fact!
The sloth is the worlds slowest mammal!
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u/detectiveriggsboson Nov 09 '18
Never seen that video before and it's one of the most adorable things ever.
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u/ThinkSoftware Nov 09 '18
"Can you believe you my high school voted me most likely to die young and unaccomplished?"
"You did die young and unaccomplished"
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u/Hungover52 Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 10 '18
Is 34 young? It's no
2827 club.*Thank you for the correction.
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u/RagingAcid Nov 09 '18
OH MY GOD DOUG OH MY GOD VICKY OH MY GOD
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u/Thisisnowmyname Nov 09 '18
I'M SO HAPPY TO SEE VICKY RETURN! She's like the perfect meeting ground of actual threat and incompetence, kinda like Team Rocket.
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u/Lenore_Raven Nov 09 '18
I am super excited, but realised something. Eleanor knows that Vicky was in the bad place and can recognise her (assuming she paid a bit of attention to the memories this ep). So, although she doesn't know this, Vicky can only interact with Tahani, Jason, and Chidi without getting called out if they are planning secret plans that don't start with 'reveal we're demons.'
So (assuming the demon squad avoid Michael and Janet with the assumption they don't the humans know about the good place) either Eleanor is going to try and trick Vicky, keeping her around to figure out what is known, or the rest of the demons will interact with the humans in an attempt to separate them (maybe each choosing a target?)
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u/sealboyjacob Nov 09 '18
That's a good spot, that was a very specific three second memory that could fuck up all of Shawn's plans!
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u/captain_asparagus Nov 10 '18
I'm picturing more of a "Why do you look familiar? I feel like I've seen you somewhere before" scenario.
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u/jjcamilo Nov 09 '18
THE FERRARI IS NO LONGER IN THE GARAGE
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u/SapphireSamurai Nov 09 '18
I can’t wait to see what MEJ has to say on the podcast tomorrow.
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Nov 09 '18
The rest of the plot was basically superfluous to me after I realized Vicky was coming back
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u/Mehmeh111111 Nov 09 '18
I yelled DOUG out loud at the end. They're going to see him right?!?! RIGHT?!?
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u/Lixa123 Nov 09 '18
Vicky's able to bust out her Australian accent now! The theories were true!
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
We finally saw Eleanor handing Chidi the tissue before he sneezed!!
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18
was there a reference to this in any of the earlier episodes?
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u/rtj777 Nov 09 '18
There was. Michael mentioned it in passing as the one time Eleanor perfectly anticipated Chidi's needs, causing him to fall in love with her
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u/Seedy88 Nov 09 '18
I feel the mega-demon theory is making fun of Good Place fans' theorizing about what's really happening!
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u/Starrystars Nov 09 '18
Or it's a reference to the writers.
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u/grimmbrother Nov 09 '18
It was my first thought too that they're making fun of our fan theories. On the Podcast, the writers assistant said that they have an account that makes comments online, so we know they're here somewhere.
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u/MrWinks Nov 09 '18
To be fair, it’s a silly exaggeration of a real extension of Descartes’ deterministic example.
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u/Hungover52 Nov 09 '18
Well, sure, but it's also about infinite regression, something that comes up frequently, especially about things like creationism (God created the earth, but who created God? Mega-God. And before that?)
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u/SynthD Nov 09 '18
“You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"
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u/ComebackShane Nov 09 '18
I was hoping they would Rule of 3 that and say it in the airport too.
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u/Lixa123 Nov 09 '18
The concept of an airport shutting down, especially just so that porn can be shot there, is incredible.
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u/Floor_Kicker Nov 09 '18
I was hoping to see a film crew or something in the background
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u/Ambitus Nov 10 '18
Better would be just seeing the crew getting set up in the background right as they leave
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u/seattlechunny Nov 14 '18
The fun part about this quote is you can't tell if it's being said in a restaurant or in a library!
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u/The_Nothingman Nov 09 '18
Mirror Centaur is my new favorite mythical animal
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u/Sazley Nov 09 '18
I bet the torture is it being slightly better than Tahani at everything so she has to deal with a perfect-er version of her constantly being around
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u/galapagossquirrle Nov 09 '18
This episode squashed so many fan theories I couldn’t keep count. My favorite was when Vicky showed up again (so many people theorized she was disguised as Simone)
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u/gclem16 Nov 09 '18
Jesus I love the good place theories sometimes and that would’ve been one I would’ve never expected with Simone and Vicky.
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u/foundry37 Nov 09 '18
Love the fact that this episode is a Clip Show without being a Clip Show.
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u/blades46 Nov 09 '18
And then we all had ice cream. That was a sticky situation.
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u/chagoscifres Nov 09 '18
Community is the only other television show to handle clips properly.
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u/jorbanead Nov 09 '18
Holy shirt you’re right. This was a great episode. TBH the last few episodes were getting a bit boring; still had some great jokes, but I’ve been missing the “afterlife” weirdness. It was starting to feel more like a regular comedy that lost its originality. Looks like we’re back!
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u/lovetheblazer Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
If we never get to see the ending of the Chidi is trapped in a giant purple space bubble scenario, I’m going to be so mad now.
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u/poktanju Nov 09 '18
"Is he in pain? Almost certainly. Will he ever get out? No. However..."
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u/flanders427 Nov 09 '18
That was some fantastic Niednogleing in that scene. Also they could honestly just have three seasons of the show be all the reboots.
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u/Galileo908 Nov 09 '18
Janet’s barely contained rage is everything.
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Nov 10 '18
It makes me worried about what will happen when she returns to the afterlife world....the “queue” this time will probably be insane.
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u/Sazley Nov 09 '18
DOUG FORCETT???
edit: also, calling Calgary 'rural Canada' lol
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u/kingbirdy Nov 09 '18
But getting stoned and being "closest to right" wouldn't make him a model human
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u/masterzora Nov 09 '18
He lived in Calgary in the 70s. Plenty of time to move in the 40+ years since.
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u/SamScoopCooper Nov 09 '18
HOLY FORKING SHIRTBALLS!!! I was thinking that it would Mindy St. Claire’s sister but you are probably far more right than me
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u/gonzolady Nov 09 '18
Every time Michael says something about “our friends” it makes me smile 😃
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u/heytaradiddle Nov 09 '18
I love that Eleanor chose a lizard for her heaven pet.
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u/heytaradiddle Nov 09 '18
And I also love how well Kristen Bell handled Eleanor choosing a lizard for her heaven pet.
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u/OneGoodRib Nov 09 '18
I loved it just sitting on her head for all of that one scene, and her not being remotely bothered by it.
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Nov 09 '18
Honestly only thing that would have been more appropriate would have been a giant-ass cockatoo.
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u/lovetheblazer Nov 09 '18
Eleanor: How did I look? I always thought I could pull off being bald.
Michael: I have no ability to judge attractiveness in human beings, but no you did not.
Daaaamn, ya burnt, Eleanor
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Nov 09 '18
Off topic.. but afterlife Eleanor's hair in this episode was absolutely on point
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18
props to the the behind-the-scenes staff, they must have worked real hard to make Kristen Bell look unattractive.
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u/NisceD Nov 09 '18
Hey guys, you better get out of this thread soon. When it closes they using it to shoot porn.
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18
"You both have combination skin"
Really, never change Tahani
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18
"There's no place more deserted than a public library in Arizona"
The truth has been spoken
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u/astrocanyounaut Nov 09 '18
The penguin with the Jaguars jersey 😂 also that lizard was just doing whatever the fork it wanted, I would love to see outtakes of this episode
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Nov 09 '18
I like how this Lizard actor is stealing every damn scene she’s in. We’re looking at the next Meryl right here
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u/heytaradiddle Nov 09 '18
Um. I would like to know more about the Purple Space Bubble reboot.
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u/wordyfard Nov 09 '18
As much fun as that could be, odds are Eleanor ruined everything like five minutes later by figuring out they were in The Bad Place.
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u/Seedy88 Nov 09 '18
The iguana climbing her hair is hilarious! I'm not sure if that was scripted!
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u/BoxOfNothing Nov 09 '18
There was a reeeeeeelatively small continuity error earlier in the scene with where its arm was (was resting on her head from one angle and down by its side in the other angle), and there wasn't for that. Considering they were shot from different angles and almost certainly different takes, I'm gonna say it was either scripted, or it did it on its own for the first shot and they made it do it again for continuity and because it was funny.
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18
"Trick us into having a threesome" Oh Mindy
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u/crazymusicalgenius96 Nov 09 '18
I was a little disappointed that they cut off the “I love you” scene before Eleanor yells “MINDY YOU PERVERT”
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18
I will always love getting to see the different reboots, this show is perfect
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u/Brock_Hard_Canuck Nov 09 '18
I like how on Michael's screen of Eleanor's life, one of the things listed is "Dad forgot birthday, changed birth certificate so he wasn't wrong".
Illegal? Ingenious? Bit of both?
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u/MailChick Nov 09 '18
"Or I'm gonna rip off your demon head and shove it up wherever your butt should be". Oh my God, Eleanor.
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u/Hobbit-guy Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
"Frequent sex dreams about Sam the Eagle from The Muppets"
Well, that was unexpected
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u/Galileo908 Nov 09 '18
Sex dreams about Sam The Eagle because authoritarianism makes Eleanor comfortable. Oh my god I love this.
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u/Kallyle Nov 09 '18
Wait, a whole bunch of the bad place people just got through to Earth?! This is going to get good…
Wait, what exactly could they do on Earth at this point? It’s not like Team Cockroach can actually get to the Good Place at this point, so what exactly are the demons planning here?
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u/lovetheblazer Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
I see you bisexual!Eleanor wanting to ride Tahani. I see you and I appreciate you :)
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u/nursehoneybadger Nov 09 '18
Does anyone else remember Michael saying in a previous season that he gave Eleanor a lizard in one of the reboots that pooped on her all the time?? I was waiting for that lizard deuce, man!
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Nov 09 '18
GOD I FORKING LOVE HOW THIS SHOW IS BASICALLY A PHILOSOPHY CLASS DISGUISED IN CHARACTERS AND FEELINGS.
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u/PaulDoe Nov 09 '18
ever since I went to Universal Studios to see the set tour, that's all I can see when they're in the Good Place. Chidi just fell in the lake where they keep the Jaws shark
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u/KidCoheed Nov 09 '18
I love the fact that Eleanor gives no fucks that her lizard is on her head
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u/KingEdTheMagnificent Nov 09 '18
"I'll grab a bible right now, It's the only book in the sex ed section"
l m a o
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u/Hormisdas Nov 09 '18
Arizona: where porn is shot in all closed places of business.
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u/galapagossquirrle Nov 09 '18
Gen is gonna be so pissed at Michael. It’s basically his fault there are now demons on earth.
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u/erin_museum Nov 09 '18
All of a sudden, Michael looked like Sam the Eagle to me.
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u/JuanMataCFC Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18
if u noticed, Sam the Eagle was listed as one of Eleanor's "shames" when Michael pulled up her info.
oh and also she got a lifetime ban from a post-office and Rihanna's bodyguard was one of her biggest enemies (licking Rihanna's leg probably led to that lol).
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Nov 09 '18
I like to think somewhere in the same pet party there’s a jaguar in a Sidney Crosby jersey
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u/RedOctobyr Nov 09 '18
"Dude, penguins are real." "That's the spirit, Eleanor." Jason is awesome.
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u/WandersFar Nov 09 '18
Oh god, the Michael being tortured theory!