r/SuccessionTV • u/Plainchant Detoxify The Brand • Jul 08 '18
Discussion Succession - 1x06 "Which Side Are You On?" - Episode Discussion
Season 1 Episode 6: Which Side Are You On?
Air Date: July 8, 2018
Synopsis: With the vote of no confidence against Logan imminent, Roman tries to sway a neutral board member, while Kendall frantically shores up his "yea" votes. Meanwhile, Logan arrives in Washington to meet with the president, but worries he's been snubbed following a last-minute cancellation; after successfully thwarting a potential scandal, Tom introduces Greg to fine dining; and Shiv explores her options in D.C.
Directed by: Andrij Parekh
Written by: Susan Stanton
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Tonight's episode reminded me of that line from The Usual Suspects:
"How do you shoot the Devil in the back? What if you miss?"
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Interesting that Tom's code names are actually more alarming and dramatic than the events that they're covering up.
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u/berflyer Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
I have a very hard time taking him seriously. Even in a company dominated by nepotism, it seems farcical that he could have ended up in such a position of power.
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Jul 09 '18
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
It also says that he successfully survived something called "The Death Pit"...
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Billions and Hannibal have showcased this type of fare too.
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Jul 09 '18
I could never function in that world because I couldn't eat that stuff. My taste isn't so much lowbrow as it is rooted in working class foods of various types. The rarefied stuff is almost always gross to me.
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u/dirtwalrus Dec 03 '21
and now Wheel of Time
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u/Inner_Climate9569 Jan 23 '22
When in WOT? Edit: I just realised with the children of light right ?
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Jul 09 '18
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u/AbortionDeb Jul 11 '18
I'll re-state my earlier assessment: Succession is a mad combination of Game of Thrones, Westworld, Arrested Development, and Billions.
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u/SuPeRfLyKiD3 Jul 09 '18
It's interesting how Stewy continues to play Kendall like a fiddle. Kendall thinks they're boys, but Stewy has always manipulated him and even flat out said to his face tonight that he shouldn't trust him.
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Kendall seems to have few friends, is estranged from his wife (whom he still ineffectually chases), is considered a weak joke at work, and is treated coldly by his siblings.
I imagine he looks for friendship wherever he can get it.
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u/SuPeRfLyKiD3 Jul 09 '18
Yeah, it's actually not really manipulation on Stewy's part as much as it is stupidity on Kendall's end and a false sense of trust. Stewy is a shady character, but he's pretty open and honest to Kendall when talking. He flat out told him that he shouldn't trust him in tonight's episode and never gave him an official vote of confidence. Only that he's going to support whoever won the vote.
It was also Kendall's idea to make him an equity partner in the company in return for the capital to pay the bank debt.
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Jul 09 '18
What is the actual deal with that debt? Kendall seemed truly scandalized that Logan did that. The old guard treated it like a reckless gamble that could have paid off but was about to bite them in the ass. How else were they supposed to solve it? Did Logan ever say what he planned to do to avert that crisis? I may have missed something.
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u/ianrc1996 Jul 09 '18
It's gonna bite them in the ass later because the rival business man who met with Kendall and was looking to buy the shares met with Stewy in the park. He probably financed buying the shares and is looking to take over. I predict at some point they will desperately sell shares to him, only to have Stewy join him and attempt to take over the company.
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u/JaxtellerMC Jul 09 '18
I canât wait to see what he does next, team up with Frank? try to get back in?
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u/sixtynineningbeavers Jul 09 '18
K: "Can I trust you?" S: "Nah, bro." K: "Okay, I trust you."
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Jul 09 '18
I'm oddly rooting for Kendall, but he's not good at picking his battles or picking up when those he views as allies outside of the family are being honest and blunt. He just brushes it off.
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Jul 09 '18
That is strength/weakness. Persistent. Doesn't take no for an answer. He's awkward as fuck about it half the time, where his father does it with the flourish of a lifelong bully. Kendall lacks his ferocity because he's never been literally hungry. He needs to step up his game if he plans to beat Dad.
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u/JaxtellerMC Jul 09 '18
Kendall has also proven these last three episodes especially that heâs the one Roy with a conscience (aside from Greg). I wonder if Logan knew when they had hamburgers together, it felt very much like he was guilt tripping Kendall, and Kendall was backing off for a sec there
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u/cheerful_cynic Jul 09 '18
Kendall is growing on me the more i get to know his siblings, but he got completely and utterly played by both vaulter guy and stewy. I can't wait to see how they grow out their tentacles vs the roys.
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u/Wyattlores Jul 09 '18
Kendall is powerless. I believe that may even be the meaning of the characterâs name: Ken doll. (Dickless)
Also, a real idiot. Love that many people donât see it even though it is shown at every opportunity. That is true to life. He is a very realistic character.
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Jul 09 '18
Everyone on the show is pretty direct with their agenda. They all seem pretty self-aware for a bunch of dissipated corporatists. A lot of dramatic irony in how we, the audience, know everyone's machinations. The fun is in watching them realize it (or not).
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u/soulaisawesome Jul 09 '18
Prediction: Kendall is going to sue Logan for not recusing himself during the meeting, which was illegal. Heâll aim to show Romanâs vote was clearly influenced by Logan. Roman will have more power than anyone through deciding wether or not to cooperate with Kendallâs case.
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Kendall is going to sue Logan for not recusing himself during the meeting, which was illegal.
The thing is, this may not be true. I serve on a small board and it takes a majority to remove/replace anyone. It is custom to recuse/abstain when there may be a conflict of interest (like, say, tonight's vote), but it's not in the bylaws.
There are a lot of "gentlemen's agreements" that suddenly evaporate when things get real.
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u/InHocSignioVinces Jul 11 '18 edited Jul 11 '18
With powerful CEOsâsay Ellison or MoonvesâI have no doubt that both guys would be able to stay in the room if they ever faced a vote of no confidence. What is kind of ludicrous though, is that Logan fired all the âtraitorousâ board members. Thatâs just not the way it works; board members are supposed to be above the CEO, a check on him. Thatâs how once powerful Kalanick got booted from the company he founded, Uber. Shareholders ultimately vote on board members, though powerful CEOs often manage to find a way to install friends that are rubber-stamped through ignorance or indifference. But putting someone on is rather different from taking someone off. Logan kind of inverted the power dynamic of the usual corporate governance by firing them outright, for no good reason. He doesnât have that power, and it wouldnât look good.
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Apr 19 '23
But Logan is the controlling shareholder, as I understand it, and it's likely those he fired were appointed by him anyways, so he could hypothetically do it.
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u/ancientastronaut2 Jul 11 '18
But didnât frank (I believe thatâs his name) literally say it was illegal for him to be there?
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u/RedditBurner_5225 Nov 09 '21
Can you fire all the people that voted against you asap?
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Apr 19 '23
If you are the controlling shareholder, Chairman, and CEO...why the fuck not? Who's to stop you?
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u/czardmitri Aug 01 '25
I thought they only had 39% share of the company after Stewy's $4 billion injection though.
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Jul 09 '18
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Media companies are known for all sorts of shenanigans with their bylaws. CorpFin 101 teaches students about Shareholder Rights Plans, aka "Poison Pills," which are a clear conflict of interest and also quite legal and common.
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u/aureator Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 16 '18
"H-have you ever visited California Pizza Kitchen?"
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
This is a guy who was last seen eating muffins out of a scoop-bag, so I'm glad to see that he's getting some nutrition!
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u/subterraneanbunnypig Jul 09 '18
The two actors seemed like they were trying so hard not to laugh during that exchange.
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u/quazeeye Jul 09 '18
Visited*
It honestly makes it such a better line that he used the word visited rather than been to. Lmao
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u/T3hJ3hu Jul 09 '18
Wouldn't Logan need a lot more to fire board members than just his word?
Either way, awesome episode.
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
Several members of the Board had their seats because of the trust set up by Logan, while a few others were employees of firm. I could imagine structures that make this possible.
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u/redonkulus Jul 09 '18
Apparently its up to the companiesâ by-laws that dictate how board members are removed. At least thatâs from my 2 minute googling.
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u/ms23789 Jul 11 '18
Yes. If a Delaware corporation (which the overwhelming majority of major US companies are), it requires a vote of a majority of the outstanding shares - and requires formal action (like a vote at a shareholder meeting or a formal written consent, depending on the companyâs bylaws).
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u/ReadySetGonads Jul 09 '18
What a great fucking show, I literally didn't want the episode to end. Does anyone have a recommendation for something similar?
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
If you're not watching it already, Billions is a fun experience.
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u/cheerful_cynic Jul 09 '18
Ortolan was in billions also, it's a very "rich lifestyle" type show that takes itself much more seriously than this (but i like how accurate this show is, with how rich kids can be utter assholes)
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u/williamthebloody1880 Jul 11 '18
I've seen someone say that Billions is how these people see themselves and Succession is how they actually are. Which sounds about right
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u/mivajh6 Jul 09 '18
This is much better than Billions. Actually has good writingânot just characters giving over-the-top speeches and reciting pop culture references to each other.
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Jul 09 '18
some find the over-the-top speeches and recitation of pop culture to be good writing; just ask the shakespeare fans...
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u/nihilistCoffee Jul 09 '18
Also fuck Roman, what a fucking snivveling weak coward.
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Jul 09 '18
Roman is infinitely more spineless than Kendall.
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u/cheeseshrice1966 Jul 09 '18
At least Roman has a chin.
Itâs so hard to root for Kendall when heâs such a sniveling, spoiled brat.
I guess thatâs sort of the point tho, isnât it? He is what his father made him, and with every decision, every move, counter move, action and inaction- he is what his parenting (or lack thereof) has taught him.
I think Iâm supposed to feel that Logan is the hostile, arrogant father who deserves to be brought down, but dammit I just canât root against him and Brian Cox is supremely nailing this portrayal.
I donât much care for any of his offspring, though. My God, theyâre like one bad train wreck after another; one so awful and grotesque that you think it canât possibly get worse, and then the next collision is infinitely worse than the previous.
I think Roman has zero integrity but when it came down to it, he bet on the horse that could cross the finish line. Kendall was doing nothing but second guessing him and might as well have told him that he had no confidence in his ability, so I believe Roman felt that his best option was his father.
Not sure yet how I feel about Greg; he seems to somewhat be developing a spine, but heâs so fucking obfuscated, I still really want to throat punch him. Tom too- just when I think thereâs a shred of redeeming quality to him, he dashes it against the rocks.
Can we all agree though that James Cromwell and Brian Cox are simply amazing and Iâd love to see the two of them go all badass for the remainder of the season.
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u/arekhemepob Jul 09 '18
I think Roman has zero integrity but when it came down to it, he bet on the horse that could cross the finish line.
That had nothing to do with it. He was clearly just afraid of his father.
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u/treyhunna83 Jul 09 '18
Roman was practically the swing vote. Smh. He decided the horse that crossed the finish line.
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u/Naughtynuzzler Jul 09 '18
Honestly I hate the entire family with the exception of James Cromwell. Let HIM lead the company
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u/HugofDeath Sep 28 '18 edited Sep 28 '18
Gregâs so fucking obfuscated, I just want to throat-punch him
Did you mean obtuse? Obfuscated means information that is deliberately complicated or concealed as to be misleading. People can obfuscate, but they canât really be âan obfuscated personâ
Edit: in hindsight this was an obvious autocorrect and i look like the kid in class whoâs so excited to raise their hand that that they stick one arm up and grab it with their other arm behind their head. What a douchebag I am. âThey canât really be an obfuscated personâ.. what a douchebag.
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u/ReadySetGonads Jul 09 '18
The way the actor portrayed Roman literally twiddling his thumbs when his dad confronted him had me genuinely hating him. Should have pulled the goddam trigger.
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u/keahi60 Jul 10 '18
Yeah Kieran Culkin was on point
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u/oil1lio Apr 20 '23
Oh my god I didn't know Macaulay Culkin had a brother and I didn't know this was him. This makes so much sense because I swear the actor looked familliar and I couldn't place my finger on it
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u/SingleClick8206 Sep 07 '24
He only appears cool to the outsiders
He's not that sassy when his daddy is there
I wonder why Roman is still afraid of his daddy
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u/rotoleague9898 Jul 09 '18
A lot of hate in here towards Kendall and his handling of this situation and how he choked under pressure. I think a lot of it is missplaced. At the end of the day he needed to go out to long island. He knew that a couple of the "yes's" weren't solid and felt that he needed to firm up one final possible swing vote. As it turned out, that vote was (or would've been) the difference.
There's no way he could've predicted a terrorist threat (attack?) right when he was coming back, and he still sprinted out of the tunnel, composed himself, and delivered what I thought was a well thought out argument against his own father. He had all of the votes, but it was Roman who absolutely cracked under pressure, and all he had to do was to say one word.
I'm assuming Logan will find out about Roman being apart of this and it will come back to bite him. All in all definitely the best episode so far, safe to say I'm completely hooked now.
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u/SuccessAndSerenity Jul 11 '18
Eh, idk. Iâm team Kendall, but he fucked up. He shouldnât have made the call to Illana in the first place, as Frank thought/said. And then he definitely shouldnât have gone out to see her. If heâd been in the room, he would have forced his father to leave, and would have gotten 3 more votes. With Logan out of the room and Kendall in it, I think Lawrence and Kenâs buddy would have voted, and voted yes. As would have Roman. Kendall lost 3 votes in pursuit of one. If heâd skipped Long Island, IMO he would have won easily.
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u/Tjw5083 Jul 11 '18
I donât think Ken could have forced his father out of the room. All Logan has to do is raise his voice and Ken becomes a scared little boy. He has no balls when confronting his dad on anything.
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u/redditaccountxD Jun 08 '25
Then just tell everyone to move room
Why do they even vote while Logan is still there? Hard watching when every char is so stupid
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u/Defiant_Griffin Nov 29 '21
You blew my mind with this logic. Just started watching and... yeah. He had the votes if only he would have shown up.
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Jan 29 '22
Not even tho! He woulda been fine if he skipped Long Island, and lost her vote⌠Ithere were legit 4 people there that abstained out of fear of loosing their job! His investment âfriendâ just might have still abstained but legit the rest of em woulda def voted. Roman woulda stood up to pops if his bro was there since he still almost did. The Asian dude 100 p woulda have. The lawyer, who voted towards the end, most likely would have as well if she saw that Logan was no longer a threat. Even his shitty Coke head friend probably would have if he saw the way things were looking cus he even said, âIâm backing whoever winsâ
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u/roerd Feb 05 '24
The lawyer didn't vote because she has no vote. She might have spoken in favour of the motion if Kendall had been present and Logan had not been, but she was not a member of the board.
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u/LadyofLA Jul 15 '18
I more or less agree. Kendall is steady and he's sharp. He's made some mistakes. Principally trustingly Stewie and getting stuck between Long Island and Manhattan. How could he have predicted the air embargo? And, even if he had been honest with himself about Stewie being a snake, what alternatives did he have?
Kendall is the one with the temperament, discipline and perspective to be CEO. Whether or not it will ever happen, who can say? And what the consequences of Logan's refusal to work with him to make the transition we are yet to see.
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u/Shoddy_Translator_76 Sep 26 '22
I just wish Kendall stepped out of the company on his own will and with all the due respect. He could really start something from scratch and nail it.
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u/Naughtynuzzler Jul 09 '18
I just wish there was a character I liked lol. I guess I like James Cromwells character but it's hard to know how much he'll be in the show.
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u/theslickasian Sep 30 '23
Kendall and Roman both choked. Kendall should've planned transportation earlier or hustle back to the building faster and Roman could've easily stalled.
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u/treyhunna83 Jul 09 '18
Romanâs all talk. Bitched out
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u/broom9 Jul 09 '18
Still feel super weird that Roman went cold feet last second. What does he gain by doing that?
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u/berflyer Jul 09 '18
I found that a bit odd, too. If they had made him choose before the outcome was assured, then I'd understand his chickening out. But given he was the deciding vote, I don't know why he did.
Maybe he's just too intimidated by his dad? So even if Logan is out of the company, Roman is still afraid of him as a father? Only plausible explanation I could come up with.
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u/mespec Jul 14 '18
I also thought that when Logan was in the hospital, and Roman asked Greg to bring his Dad Loganâs favorite sweater to the hospital, that this scene was meant to be a tell. A tell showing the viewer that Roman might have a stronger love for his Dad than his other siblings, who werenât concerned with bringing their Dad anything to comfort him like the sweater. So maybe in the end, Roman didnât have the heart to humiliate the Dad he loves.
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u/cheeseshrice1966 Jul 09 '18
Well, Kendall (as wimpy as he is) tries to emasculate Roman every chance he gets and seems to passive-aggressively tell Roman he has no confidence in him.
And in the first episode, Logan told Roman he would fire Frank and give Roman his job, so I really feel like even though Roman definitely did bitch out, he felt like Logan would have more confidence in him than Kendall would so he jumped teams.
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u/theslickasian Sep 30 '23
Well Logan is for sure not going to give the company to Kendall and Frank won't be on his ass no more. And they won't have to deal with the hostility of Lawrence anymore
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Jul 09 '18
We knew he would. He, like Ewan, basically told people he was completely unreliable and in the wind. Everyone acted consistently with their professed ethos, so it's weird that it was suspenseful anyway.
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u/nihilistCoffee Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
Anyone notice the constant theme of eating and discomfort as a source of power and domination? Greg eating with Ewan, forcing him to eat a food he clearly doesn't like. Greg eating with Tom once again, not in a position to say no. Kendall eating the hamburger with Roy even though he clearly feels odd about it.
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u/JohnTheRev Jul 09 '18
Marcia also tells Kendall that she left some "steamed fish" for him and Logan to eat, and clearly Logan said fuck that and went the burger route.
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u/lunchpaillefty Aug 07 '26
Kind of funny, now knowing what Brian Cox uses his voice for. Those did look like Big Macs.
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u/SweatermanMcGee Dec 20 '21
I took the burger awkwardness as Kendall being surprised at a rare, genuine moment with his father and not any kind of game. They also acknowledge that Marcia organized it. This is confirmed by the call Kendall makes to frank after to see if there's any turning back.
Sorry I'm replying to a 3 year old episode. I just started watching and found my way here
Side note: does anyone else think the last shot of the smoke in the streets is a reference to 9/11? I mean as a way to drive home the terrorism remarks and the overall sense of catastrophe at the end. Just thought it was a strange shot to end on and was pondering the meaning behind that specific choice.
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u/raudoniolika Jan 28 '22
I liked the contrast between Tom eating outrageously expensive weird stuff (because itâs what rich people do!!!, he thinks) and Logan, a person who has literally everything, eating a burger.
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u/JJulie Dec 27 '21
Me too. My husband is rewatching with me. I felt like Gerri was always going to vote for Logan. She did the same to Tom with the paper shredding incident. Sheâs always got a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. When Kendall asked Stewie if he could trust him at the beginning of the episode, Stewie said no. Twice. I knew he would abstain
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Jul 09 '18
Not to throw shade on the rest of the show (I'm really enjoying all of it), but the Greg/Tom relationship is probably the most interesting at this point, yeah? And even outside their relationship, how they'll end up fitting in the business in the future is something I'm looking forward to.
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u/berflyer Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
I find Tom extremely creepy and unlikable (spineless, insecure, greedy, and vacuous). I get that that's what the show wants him to come across as, but I can't see how Shiv (or anyone) would find him appealing him in any way.
Btw, did they explain when / how he got his black eye? I seem to have missed something.
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u/Low__arugala Jul 10 '18
That might be shivâs whole attraction to him, in the previous episode with Tom talking to his mom about holidays and him essentially forfeiting every holiday one by one, and the wedding thing. Shiv is with a Tom because a Tom is handsome enough and easy to control enough and she thinks heâs a âgood guyâ when youâre in a rich manipulative family like that she probably finds his seemingly nice ways endearing and easier to deal with. Thatâs why she was so disgusted with him knowing about the whole plot (also obviously cause she didnât tell him) itâs because she didnât realize or expect heâd be as conniving and manipulative as her brothers.
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Jul 09 '18
Regarding the black eye...no. Tom said it was a sexual thing with Shiv. I'm not convinced, but Tom can be too candid and sincere at the worst times as well.
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u/Erculosan May 19 '23
Five years late (cause Im seeing it now), but I really like Tom. There is no explanation for his black eye. If it really was a sex thing, I don't see how it brings new stuff to the show. I really believe it was assault, which makes me feel more empathetic for him. Btw don't spoil it for me.
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Jul 09 '18
And secondarily, Greg/Ewan. I wonder if Ewan will stick around or if he just showed up for a dramatic vote. I'd love to see more of James Cromwell, especially butting up against the roaring Brian Cox.
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u/cheeseshrice1966 Jul 09 '18
This.
Cromwell didnât have many lines but man can he chew up the scenery!! Iâd love to see him and Brian Cox go on an ass-kicking mission and mend the fences.
If anything is going to start rebuilding that bridge, I think Ewan coming to the defense of his brother would be it.
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u/TexasKobeBeef Jul 09 '18
Fully expecting Kendall to break his sobriety next episode.
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Jul 10 '18
I hope so. You donât introduce a character to have an epically tragic cocaine addiction and not have him have a meltdown. Chekovâs gun
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Jul 09 '18
Absolutely. He looked like he had already made that decision at the end of the episode when he turned and walked a different direction. He actually looked like he was fucked up already.
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u/BurningLoki365 Apr 11 '23
I know Iâm late and Iâm just now watching so please no spoilers but god I hope not. Iâm sick of addicts being in shows only for the sake of relapsing for dramas sake.
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u/Potential_Energy Jul 08 '23
What did he take when he pulled out that little cannister? Thought it was just a mint but maybe a pill of some sort.
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u/JayBomb7 Jul 09 '18
The tension was absolutely palpable this entire episode.... As Kendall was running down the street and began his spiel I thought I was going to puke.... Idk if it's just the feel of the show but I don't even feel that much tension watching Westworld or GoT (both of which are my favorite ongoing shows). This episode cemented my interest in Succession, fantastic show!
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u/strongjs Jul 09 '18
I almost had a heart attack watching this episode. It was one of the few times in a film or TV show that I felt compelled to stop or skip ahead because my anxiety was too overbearing.
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u/JayBomb7 Jul 09 '18
Yes exactly!!!!! I wont lie. I had to at least pop on the sub and I saw "Roman is a bitch" and put it together which SOMEWHAT eased the tension but even then it was so tense to watch it play out!
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u/Ginska Dec 25 '21
Your comment is from a while ago but damn man I really had to skip through those scenes and de watch after the conclusion. My anxiety was through the roof like itâs never been before. Such a good show, Iâm 3 years late but we all know the saying
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u/constantreader15 Apr 04 '26
Iâm in here 7 years later because of the anxiety of watching. I just need to know what happened lol.
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u/Ok_Bumblebee_1431 Sep 03 '23
Yep. I started a rewatch, and I had to stop that episode when he got stuck in the tunnel. I wasn't putting myself through that again.
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u/The_real_sanderflop Jul 10 '18
I mean... I can relate to New York traffic more than I can relate to robots or medieval sieges
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u/crybby01 Dec 07 '21
im almost done with ep 6 rn and it made my anxiety spike so bad! I was so scared during the vote
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u/dorigen219 Jul 15 '23
Thatâs how you know when a show is good, your whole body clenched the whole time as youâre totally immersed
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Jul 09 '18
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u/sixtynineningbeavers Jul 09 '18
Right? He was one of the guys politicking the board members and then backed down when daddy pushed him. He fucked over 4 people. Logan has to find out Roman was just as guilty as Kendell.
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Jul 09 '18
Logan knows without having to ask. They're his kids. Kendall knew he'd need to be in the room to force Roman to stick with him, which is why he flew into such a panic when he realized he wasn't going to be there. Logan also behaved predictably, paradoxically winning himself the vote and opening himself up to being removed via lawsuit.
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u/berflyer Jul 09 '18
I have to admit I didn't quite understand why Roman chickened out.
If they had made him choose before the outcome was assured, then I'd understand him backing out. But given he was the deciding vote, I don't know why he did.
Maybe he's just too intimidated by his dad? So even if Logan is out of the company, Roman is still afraid of him as a father? Only plausible explanation I could come up with.
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u/beachrat12 Jul 09 '18
I think Gherri was far worse, her decision was pure calculation. Guaranteed she had that plan B ready. Roman was just wimpy and intimidated.
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u/THATGUYWHOBREATHES Jul 09 '18
Seeing Roman lurched over in his chair as Logan began his tirade was so disappointing. I hope that little bitch gets his because Kendall is #1!
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u/prequelme Jul 12 '18
Roman was able to remove Kendall from the line of succession as well as get rid of his babysitter in one swift stroke.
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u/Heisenberg187 Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
Also his "friend" Stewie fucked everyone. Did he think Papa Roy was just gonna keep the people that voted for the motion on. No way. Now they company seems even more dysfuncional. Also fuck Gerri.
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u/redditIMHO Jul 12 '18
Kendall should have been in the room. When he knew he wasn't going to make it to the meeting he should have bumped the vote to a later date.
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u/choledocholithiasis_ Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
Why does the "money guy" abstain? Wouldn't it be in his best financial interest to vote for the no confidence?
Lawrence abstaining makes sense, kills 2 birds with one stone (gets Kendall fired, and Logan gets to continue bringing down the company with his "dinosaur" visions).
EDIT: I also find it weird that Ewan ended up voting against the no confidence as well when it was 4-2. He came all the way from Canada to see the downfall of his brother yet keeps him on the board? Does Ewan think that Logan continuing to be the CEO & Chairman is much more detrimental to him in the long run than getting voted off his own company?
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
The money guy may be colluding with a competitor. We know they've been talking.
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u/michu5 Jul 09 '18
Ewan already let us know how he would be voting, so no surprise there. Itâs telling of his loyalty and I think that it may cause Logan to reflect on some of the gripes that Ewan has taken with Logan. Ewan doesnât hate his brother and doesnât want to see his demise. I believe he loves his brother and is disappointed in how he has chosen to run his business. I absolutely loved the showcase of loyalty to Logan by Ewan when he needed it most. Iâm interested in seeing if that loyalty is passed on to Greg or if Greg will use what he has to fuck the family down the line. I think that Greg in one way or another is going to be the reason why we see Tom unravel. I know thatâs random but I donât think toms relationship is going to last and when that happens I believe (as I said in another comment) that Tom will try to convince Greg to fuck the family. Iâm Hoping Greg stays loyal and that we see Tom unravel.
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u/iced_gold Jul 09 '18
Lawrence and Stewie both abstaining has the same goal: Not helping Kendall ascend to the top by not voting for him, while keeping someone weaker in power because it could be easier to dethrone Logan than Kendall down the road.
It's a bit like Survivor in that way, where you try to pick off great competition early and leave weaker opponents for later
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u/michu5 Jul 08 '18
I predict that Roman and Tom are going to in some way show allegiance to Pops this episode, leaving Kendall in the dust.
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u/Plainchant Jul 08 '18
That's my suspicion as well. I also don't think any of the Old Guard have a real interest in working for Kendall. I think that there's some angle there.
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u/CDubulous Jul 09 '18
Anyone else get the feeling Marcia is up to something?
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u/berflyer Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
She clearly is. Her mysterious evening appointment and arrangement of that last minute dinner between Kendall and Logan.
And Logan knows. He said she's got "her own game going on" or something along those lines.
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u/lottie186 Jul 11 '18
It's pretty explicit at this point that she is. Even Logan said she was playing a game when he was eating with Kendall.
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u/Wyattlores Jul 09 '18
California Pizza Kitchen đ
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u/Praxis8 Jul 10 '18
Favorite part of the episode Tbh. "they make Cajun chicken pasta just the way I like" fucking hilarious
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u/winterswithmoni Dec 12 '22
Honestly this is the cutest thing Greg has ever said.
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u/sixtynineningbeavers Jul 09 '18
Damn Roman did Kendell dirty. He's fucked. Looks like it is about to be an all out war.
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Jul 09 '18
I'm enjoying James Cromwell as the Logan's disgruntled brother, the voice of self-righteous ascetism. That he's Greg's grandfather is even better. Ewan is all too aware of the twists and turns but is out of it (until tonight), while Greg is completely clueless but is also the linchpin of so much of the action. His scene of gastronomical sadism towards his feckless grandson cracked me up.
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u/Dbrouse33 Jul 09 '18
Agreed! Love the look on Logan's face when Ewan votes for him. It turned the whole thing around and Logan was both surprised and ready to seize the moment.
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u/FixMeASammich Jul 09 '18
You come at the king, you best not miss.
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u/cinghm81 Jul 09 '18
At the end of the day, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
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u/InHocSignioVinces Jul 10 '18
Roman is very funny, but also by far the most dislike-able character on the show. The epitome of a talker, the man of all words and no action; he was constantly berating the rest of the plotters for being overly cautious, being pussies, and when push comes to shove, when the outcome is literally in his hands and he has total responsibility, he shrinks from the moment. âDisruptorâ my ass.
I think Kendall played his hand as best as he could, all things considered. He was actually bold there and managed to convert what could have been a fuck-up on his part, by convincing the lady with cancer from what was probably a positive Logan to a positive Kendall, and he knew he had to put his balls to the wall in getting from Long Island to the Financial District to temper the titanic force of his fatherâs personality from being in the room. One thing the plotters should have seen though, is Gerrie abandoning them; she has consistently been artfully a snake when she senses things are shifting, from not talking to Logan to give the speech, to giving Tom the âeat shit for the teamâ speech. She is the opposite of confrontational, and even Roman noticed early on she was a âcold calculating bitchâ or something like that early on when weâre introduced to the character.
Alas, Lawrence played his hand best. By going with the âpersonal family matterâ gambit, he insulates himself from Loganâs wrath by giving no hint that he was ever with the plotters, and also keeps himself on the brothersâ good side, or at least off the shit list, if vote did manage to go Kendallâs way and he faces the prospect of maintaining his position with the very institutionally ensconced Roy family. Itâs better than the Stewieâs similar decision, because Stewie seems to have âfuck you, I donât give a shitâ type of money & Lawrence doesnât,
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u/LadyofLA Jul 15 '18
I don't think Lawrence ever disclosed his hand to either Kendall or Roman. Roman thought or said that he had made the deal with Lawrence but that was wishful thinking on his part. Lawrence listens. He doesn't show his cards.
Stewie, however, has something else going on the side with Logan's chief competitor. We don't know, in fact, if the money Kendall got was Stewie's or the competitor's with Stewie merely sitting on the board as his proxy.
That's the thing that so damned compelling about this show. You don't know what the F is going on and you know everybody's doing their level best to be 6 moves ahead of us and one another.
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u/InHocSignioVinces Jul 11 '18
I want to suggest that Ewan isnât some character without flaws. He is what I might called pretentiously principled; I recognize the behavior from a family member. He has a code alright, and is going to make by exaggerated groans & moans the world knows it. During the Thanksgiving fight, there was kind of homey family moment where Logan was enjoying himself explaining the medals; too little acknowledgement Ewan, who proceeds to make it about him by seeing misrepresentation and his service when Logan never commented on either. He puts his grandson through grueling road trips by making ridiculous demandsâno musicâover a favor the grandson is giving him (he could take a plane). He dictates that grandson eat food he doesnât like, making the standard obnoxious grandpa comments about wastefulness in New York, something you can rely to find a poseur with, because his fact isnât even true. He ostentatiously enters the board meeting implying heâs here to see Logan go down, and just as ostentatiously votes for his brother, so he can take notice of just how principled Ewan is. I think itâs possible Ewan isnât all granola hippie, has some jealousy of his brother âs success, and is in fact for some kind of reconciliation to get back into the very comfortable family fold.
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u/AbleAndReckless Jul 15 '18
So in short he likes virtue signaling. I never thought of it that way but I think it's totally the case now
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u/MaakaD Sep 22 '18
Ewan sides with Logan because of Old White Menâs Fear of Irrelevancy syndrome. His mindset: Fuck the young-uns. Theyâll get their turn eventually.
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u/InHocSignioVinces Jul 11 '18 edited Jul 12 '18
âHereâs the thing about being rich. Itâs fucking great. Itâs like being a super hero, only better. You get to do what you want, the authorities canât really touch you. You get to wear a costume, but itâs designed by Armani, and it doesnât make you look like a prick.â
With one of the best bits of dialogue now mentioned in this thread, letâs talk some of their deliverer, Tom. Heâs a bit more complex a character than many comments in the various ep threads portray him as.
He isnât universally awkward. Heâs pretty sharply defined by how he treats two groups of people; those below him in status, those near to him or above, with a metric near totally reliant on how many dollars are on the given personâs paycheck. Dealing with subordinates heâs prime management materialâwhich the show clearly suggests involves the ability to be abrupt & moderately condescendingâand his interactions with Greg are our primary (but not only) window to seeing that side of him. âIf I asked you to kiss me...â âAre we at sea?â As the status level rises, he becomes more awkward and weird, to become full blown simpering dealing with the Roy family. Kendall asks him to be the shit-eater when Tom comes to him for help with a major problem, without even bothering to understand exactly what shitâs heâs eating, which a more considerate thanks this episode is supposed to remind us of. He burns for approval from Logan, who barely acknowledges his existence as a serious person. And Roman just delights in needling him about his insecurities about his marriage to the sister. Even with Shiv, the dynamic endures; she routinely cancels on him, gives him unconscionable pre-nups, and seems near indifferent to their wedding plans.
Itâs possible thatâs what brings Tom and Shiv together, that she enjoys and not simply ignores the simpering, being dominant. Tom worships money, and she might enjoy being his demi-goddess by her virtue of commanding so much of it, after years of burning herself out in the cynical world of campaign operative relationshipsâwhich evidently regards infidelity as just an eventuality, something mature adults should just accept and not proactively avoid. Itâs certainly implied this episode sheâs the dominant partner sexually, and we see in their scenes she is too domestically.
Going back to the subordinate thing; how Tom is comfortable being superior. I feel the dynamic changed a little between Greg and Tom over the Thanksgiving shredding. Tom is genuinely grateful; not necessarily, that Greg is his friend, because that would ruin it, but that Greg proved himself of being his bitch. Tom was initially hostile to Greg because he viewed him as a possible threat to his ambitions within the Roy family, a replacement to him, but as Greg has (seemingly) proved simple and slavish, may have warmed to him as a Roy he can command. Tom is nouveau richeâwith all the status anxiety the term impliesâand itâs very possible the night with Greg, with him being able to show off wealth to an initiate, had no malice or manipulation behind it.
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u/AbortionDeb Jul 14 '18
I think Tom is the Littlefinger in this one: very conniving, underhanded, shady, and ambitious as fuck to get what he wants. Which is to be filthy rich. I don't think he totally leans towards women--or Shiv, for that matter--but being married to Logan's daughter will put him pretty much on par with her brothers.
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u/Westmi2ga Jul 09 '18
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤ŁGreg said âCalifornia Pizza Kitchen.â I love him.đđđ
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u/AbortionDeb Jul 11 '18
When Kendall said he was going out to Long Island, I didn't expect him to make it back in time at all. What a twist to add in the terrorist warning--which I think Logan has enough resources to make that happen, and the aborted trip to POTUS makes it seem like he's not culpable.
I don't really like Kendall, but I also think kicking Logan off the board is probably the right thing to do: all of Kendall's arguments were sound--but they didn't sound great when he was out of breath on a speaker phone.
I wanted to kick Roman's ass myself when he bowed out on the deciding vote. But that was Kendall's mistake: it was imperative he be there in person--Gerri wouldn't have wussed out like she did, and the vote would probably have been more like 6-2 than 4-4.
I think Roman made all the calculations and figured if Logan was still this strong, even with all his incapacitations, that Logan was surely capable of making Roman's life hell for voting against him.
Frank is going to file with the SEC for breech of procedure--which he'll win easily with the four fired board members--and they'll have to re-vote. By that time, though, Logan may recover enough where its a moot point.
What a great show.
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u/soulaisawesome Jul 09 '18
Wait, so Shiv did NOT hook up with Mr. Ex bf even though his shirt is off in the morning? Iâm not convinced.
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u/redonkulus Jul 09 '18
He was on the couch though. Led me to believe they were in separate rooms.
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u/lottie186 Jul 11 '18
Her behavior directly mirrors Tom's. They both went out with a person they desire but and ended up sleeping in different beds. Tom is often viewed as the better of the two but they are basically the same.
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u/Westmi2ga Jul 09 '18
Shivâs got a desire to be a good person. Sheâs going to slip though. Sheâs got willpower, I mean on the couch in compromising positions she could have fell for it. But that good on the inside is helping her.
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u/BuckRowdy Jul 15 '18
My favorite line of the episode has to be, "I feel like a 900 lb gorilla has finally stopped fucking me."
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u/beachrat12 Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 30 '18
âThatâs not how youâre supposed to like it. You probably have quite an undereducated palate. So letâs go out and Iâll teach you and show you how to be rich.â This gave me quite the chuckle.
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u/cantthinkofgoodname Jul 09 '18
That was really suspenseful there at the end. Can't believe it turned like it did. Really shaping up to be a great series.
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u/pi3dpip3r Jul 09 '18
The bird eating Scene reminds of another bird eating scene from billions
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u/Cancelling_Peru Jul 13 '18
Really did not see Roman backing out of the vote or his brother. That scene really had me on edge from the beginning when Logan started realizing something was wrong when his brother walked in. Excited to see where the show goes from here
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u/rynono Jul 10 '18
So, if the vote is illegal while grandpa is in the room, why do they still go through with the vote and then further validate it at the end? Kind of hard to emotionally follow this when they initially claim the whole scene is invalid.
Anyone who knows more about corporate culture/law can shed anymore light on this?
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u/concord72 Jul 11 '18
Logan wasn't allowed in the room, but who is going to force him out? You think security would come and forcibly remove the founder and CEO, not to mention one of the most powerful men in the world from his own office? It was one of those cases where someone is in the wrong but has so much power and influence that he can't be challenged.
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u/magicbook Jul 10 '18
Reading the past comments on this thread all this may not be strictly enforced not being in the bylaws.
A lot of these are just promises which may not actually happen when shit hits the fan.
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u/rover69 Jul 09 '18
Havenât really seen anything on here talking about how Logan had that conversation at the end with the President. Asking for help with the FCC red tape.
I know Logan probably isnât in the best of health but this made me start to think maybe he is still capable of making power moves. Not sure if he had a plan for the bank debt but I think he knows whatâs going with Kendallâs guy and meeting with the âenemyâ or what could possibly happen. Heâs been around long enough.
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u/AnferneeMason Jul 11 '18
Not sure if he had a plan for the bank debt
Mostly, the plan was to keep the share price above the trigger indefinitely. If that failed, he could intimidate or otherwise persuade the bank to hold off, given his track record/influence/power. I don't think he had a plan for the bank debt, or really for anything else, in the event of his death.
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u/Beachbum74 Jul 10 '18
How did Tom get the shiner?
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u/rynono Jul 10 '18
Right? Felt like I accidentally fast forwarded through something
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Jul 24 '18
Better late than never. When Shiv was talking to her ex, she stated something along the lines of breaking him when they played before. My guess is she's a control freak and dominates her partners to the point of injury, which explains Tom's shiner.
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u/ms23789 Jul 11 '18
Quick take on this - Iâm a corporate lawyer but this is just my general, unresearched impression, so please donât take this as gospel.
Assuming the company is incorporated in Delaware (most major companies are), the board owes fiduciary duties to the stockholders, and if there is a controlling stockholder (which typically requires a large block of stock, though not necessarily 51% -- it's more fact-specific than that kind of test), that stockholder also owes fiduciary duties to the minority stockholders. Basically, fiduciary duties require acting with due care (donât be negligent/grossly uninformed in decision making) and in the best interests of the stockholders (rather than some personal interest).
In a family company situation, the general counsel should really take great care to follow good practices, especially in this type of situation. While his presence in the room wouldnât necessarily in and of itself make the vote invalid, they are incredibly prone to a lawsuit by any shareholder (which could be Kendall, btw) suing the 5 directors for a breach of the duty of loyalty in keeping Logan on - the theory being that they are beholden to Logan, who had a personal interest in the matter under consideration, and were not acting in the best interests of the stockholders generally.
In Delaware, directors cannot be removed without a vote of a majority of stockholders, and this requires something more than âyouâre firedâ by a 51% stockholder - there needs to be proper notice of a stockholder meeting called to vote on the matter (which requires setting a record date, providing disclosure of the matter to be voted on, etc. â all in, at least 30 days for a public company) or a written consent if the bylaws allow it (but that also requires some formality and often requires consent of ALL stockholders, so it has to be totally unanimous, which is highly impractical if there are public stockholders).
So everything in this episode at the board meeting could be challenged in court and there'd be pretty good chances of the Kendall side winning.
Btw, again this is just off the cuff, I donât think the âthis is a family matterâ guys could really abstain consistent with their duties to stockholders. You can recuse yourself if you have a personal conflict, but they have a duty to manage the affairs of the company, including decisions with respect to senior management, so that doesnât absolve them. If they donât want to deal with family matters, they should resign from the board of a family-controlled company.
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u/Finallyhere11 Jul 10 '18
Ok so Kendall and Francis are out now.
Tom, Greg, and Gerri know about the cruise line issues. How long before one of them let's it slip to Kendall or Francis and Kendall uses it to torpedo his Dad?
And if Kendall gets back in does he immediately fire his brother?
I think this story is (amongst other things) about whether or not you can win playing cleanly or do you have to play dirty. No question Logan would have been out had he left the room as he was required to have, but he said screw the rules. At what point does Kendall say that as well?
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u/GoVeronika Jul 14 '18
What if Logan is just acting like he is still impaired?
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u/LadyofLA Jul 15 '18
I don't think this is likely. I wouldn't say it isn't in his personality to do such a thing but the doctor treating him is clearly very concerned about giving him a third dose of whatever it is that makes him functional. He's warning Logan and Marcia that it's a mistake with consequences. So I'm thinking if they, Logan and Marcia, insist on it, it must be required to enable Logan to put on the show he needs to before the assembled illuminati.
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u/xrubicon13 Jul 14 '18
Probably one of best episodes marrying photography and music. It was like watching a movie.
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u/Garth-Vader Jul 19 '22
I know she's a glorified extra, but I feel bad for Asha. She put her trust in Kendall and lost her job over it.
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u/PaIace Jul 10 '18
Great episode. The plot was really well thought out with all the little details tying into one another. Such as the president being unable to answer the phone because of a homeland security threat then later Kendall being unable to take the helicopter due to the same issue. And Tom's hangover causing him to confess to knowing about the vote.
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u/soondot Jul 15 '18
Who is Sarita? Saw a phone call from Kendall to her. Not sure who's her mom, Ilona. A board member?
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u/kayman007 Jul 10 '18
What about the light flickering when Tom&Greg was talking? Im so hung up on that tiny, stupid, meaningless thing.
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u/jmose22 Jul 10 '18
I am, too, I've watched it 10 times and I'm convinced it was a technical set error and so they just played off it and started ad-libbing, right down to the California Pizza Kitchen bit.
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u/NihiLiza Jul 09 '18
Who were the three board members listed as definite Logan supporters?
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Jul 09 '18 edited Jul 09 '18
Paul, Dewey, Datu(?) were the ones listed in the beginning of the episode as supporting Logan.
Kendall, Frank, Asha, and Alona (?) voted in favor of removing Logan.
Ewan and Roman voted against the motion.
Stewy and Lawrence abstained.
Those with (?), I'm not 100% on the character name, but that is how the board voted.
edit: so it was a 5-4 vote in favor of Logan when it was all said and done, but Logan still voted for himself as a deciding vote. I may have missed something after watching it again or its a continuity error. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong.
edit2: watched one last time in the board room scene. we see 2 people (presumably Paul and Dewey) vote in favor of Logan. Datu(?) was on the conference call (possibly in the board room, we don't know for sure), but he voted in favor of Logan.
edit3: also, when you hang up a Polycom conference phone like the one they use in the episode, it doesn't beep. it just hangs up without a noise.
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u/brds_snc Jul 11 '18
Maybe a silly question, but if the CEO does leave the room during a vote like this do their votes remain anonymous or does CEO know who voted for and against afterward.
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Jul 10 '18
Poor Greg. Iâd rather go to CPK than eat a tiny bird
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u/lulz Jul 11 '18
The bit about eating ortolon (the tiny bird) felt lifted from an episode of Billions that aired two months ago.
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Jul 09 '18
Kendall only has himself to blame. He didn't need to try to convince Logan's brother and he didn't need to call that woman with cancer. That's minus one vote for Logan and he wouldn't have been late, and would've had a better chance to get Gerri, his friend with the beard, and Roman. Sometimes you gotta trust yourself and just let sleeping dogs lie. A slam dunk is flashy, but a lay up gets you the same number of points.
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u/jayelecfan Jul 09 '18
the lady with cancer ended up voting in his favor ironically and the other three bitched out with Logan in the room, his friend didn't have last vote and was scared what would happen and the whole season Gerri has been terrified to say anything when in the presence of Logan
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u/NihiLiza Jul 09 '18
Gerri technically didnât have a vote though, I thought her support of the motion was intended to just sway anyone who was in doubt, right?
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u/kayman007 Jul 11 '18
What actor plays the helicopter pilot? "Roy, the skies are closed."
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Jul 09 '18
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u/mrfreedomx Jul 09 '18
I agree... that whole thing was incredibly frustrating to watch, and I also think it was some really ludicrous circumstantial bullshit that I canât believe the board of an enormous corporation would abide by when conducting an extremely weighty vote like that. Seems over the top to me. It almost reminded me of when kids are playing a make-believe game and they all start changing and bending their rules as the game is happening. I just donât understand why the meeting itself wouldnât be delayed until Kendall arrived. However, at the end of the day.. Kendall is such a pushover and if he keeps allowing his dad to strong-arm him at every turn, then this type of outcome was arguably inevitable.
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Jul 09 '18
Just skimmed through a bit of the episode again.
Keep in mind, Logan was denied a meeting with the President due to a national security threat early in the episode. When Kendall tries to fly back from Long Island, he is informed of a TFR issued because of a possible terror threat. I think it was coincidental.
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u/Plainchant Jul 09 '18
"No goodbyes! Thank you!"
Epic.