r/arrow • u/Rwings Boxing Glove • Feb 02 '18
[S06E12] - 'All for Nothing' Live Episode Discussion
Episode Info: Oliver continues his battle with Cayden James. Dinah and Oliver have a major disagreement that endangers the life of one of their own.
Main Cast
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u/Arrowloverandhater Feb 08 '18
I honestly don't like where the season is going, I hate the team split. It's stupid and childish get back together and fight like a god damn team. I would love to see more action and teamwork, this shit is just like a soap opera
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u/naszrudd Feb 06 '18
Season finale will revealed that Prometheus setup the video. Then next season arrow vs Prometheus again.
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u/Razor1987 Feb 04 '18
Soooo, why does no one tell Cayden that Arrow didn't kill his son? Even if he is a psycho, just tell hm already, what's the worst that could happen?? He is killing folks in the name of vengance, just tell him already, it would at last distract his efforts and maybe get him to suspect his allies a little..
And is Star City in some cut off limbo outside of the US, no army, police or other heroes? Weird..... :/
Also...:
Ollie: Dinah don't go, it might be a trap! Dinah: Shut up, I'll do what I feel like! Guys let's go! Later...... Dinah: It's your fault Oliver, apologize!!! Ollie: Derp?
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u/Jpato Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 02 '18
so Vincen can take a bullet in the eye but not a scream?
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u/Malhallah Feb 02 '18
The brain slowed the bullet down enough for the eye to not get too damaged. The scream was point blank eardrum.
ducks
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u/DarthPlagueisTragedy Feb 02 '18
Fucking team B. It’s the whiny bitch club. Renee can just go and do one. Not a tear would be shed. This season is the most annoying yet.
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 03 '18
The sheer balls Dinah must have to blame Oliver for this situation is incredible. Let's review, shall we? First, Oliver was against sending Vince in because he didn't trust. Second, when Vince's comms came back online, Oliver explicitly points out that it's probably a tap. Third, Oliver and Diggle literally say the warehouse is too big for them to cover with just the two of them and the B team's answer is "Fuck you guys, we're still mad at you for spying on is for 12 hours when they were perfectly right to do so cough Renee cough but yeah I'm sure you'll figure it out somehow.". So when all of this happens and everything goes exactly like Oliver and John warned them it would, they decide it's somehow not their fault but OG team arrows fault (particularly Ollie's, because everyone likes to blame their problems on him)?
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u/Edgewing_ Feb 02 '18
Seriously this show is in the gutter right now, imagine a comic book show where stopping a thermobaric bomb is the secondary objective? Shit like this pisses me off. Ray put it best "It's one mans life againsts the citys" Stupid Fefe organic bullshit. These people are supposed to save the city but drop everything to try and save a guy she banged a few times while undercover and gave them 2 pieces of intel.
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u/RandomChick85 Feb 02 '18
I have a feeling that Oliver won’t let her kill Laurel
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Feb 02 '18
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u/Awesomex7 Feb 04 '18
If I’m being honest, me too. I get people want a redemption arc so Oliver can get with her, but if we are being real... she’s far too gone.
Like seriously, you see this girl, who, yeah, looks like your daughter 1:1 but the personality difference is so drastically different, there’s just no way, I don’t give a shit if you’re mourning or not, you still see your kid in that. I could see if she only killed maybe 3 people, but we are talking about someone who’s killed quite a bit, and at times, seemingly enjoyed it.
In my opinion, again, I feel this redemptions arc (if that’s what it is, I could be completely wrong) is forced. E1 Laurel was cool, but she’s dead, and I think we should accept that (even though, if we look back, most disliked her back then and she made some really stupid choices). Black siren should remain a villain, who is trying to find herself, but she isn’t a hero.
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u/IniMiney Feb 02 '18
Punisher mode activated. If Juliana leaves Arrow at some point let her be cast as Kathryn O'Brien or Jennifer Cesare for Netflix MCU.
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Feb 02 '18
Wow that was literally one of the worst plot twists i’ve seen. It shouldn’t even be a problem, Oliver literally kills random thugs
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u/LordCaedus13 Feb 02 '18
wait, does this mean we get the boring-ass bomb plot out of the way next episode?
FUCK YEAH WOOHOO
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u/Firefaller Feb 02 '18
I didn't think Oliver even knew Dinah's name, have they ever spoken since she's joined the team?
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Feb 02 '18
I'm sensing a flip coming soon. Dinah is going to become Black Siren and Laurel is going to become Black Canary
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u/Varkain Feb 02 '18
I dunno. Black Siren seems pretty irredeemable at this point. She's killed a lot of innocent people in cold blood.
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u/FriendLee93 Feb 02 '18
She was pretty hesitant in killing Vigilante. Which is far more than she would have been earlier this season.
Plus, they wouldn't be having scenes of her and Quentin like the one they gave us tonight if they weren't trying to get us believing in the possibility that there was some of our Laurel left in her.
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u/spireddie Feb 03 '18
one good thing I can say about this show is that for me that actress isnt the same one that was Laurel Lance anymore, in my head, she is black siren, a different person, for all the interactions that they are having every episode
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u/thilinac Feb 02 '18
She was pretty hesitant in killing Vigilante.
Still killed, end result is what matters
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u/FriendLee93 Feb 02 '18
Tell that to Oliver, Snart, Thea, Sara, Mick, and pretty much any other character in this universe who has committed cold-blooded, premeditated murder.
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u/Varkain Feb 02 '18
I'm not saying they can't get her to stop being evil. It's just that even if they do that, she should be rotting in a cell because of what she's done. I hope they don't make her into a hero.
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u/theapplefour Feb 09 '18
Fine, then she can have cell mates like Oliver, Diggle, Tinah, Felicity, Sara, Mick, Thea....
Oliver is the worst superhero I have ever seen.
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u/FriendLee93 Feb 02 '18
I mean…by your logic Oliver should be rotting in a cell for what he's done.
Or did you forget when he flayed a man for information "just for practice"?
Laurel's done some fucked up shit, yeah. But so have a lot of people on this show.
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Feb 02 '18
And black manta is going to become black lightning
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u/ReverzeFlxsh Feb 02 '18
And black lightning becomes the next black flash
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u/TheRealPhantomHunter Feb 02 '18
And Black Flash becomes the next Black Adam
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u/blackfireproduction1 Feb 02 '18
And Black Adam crosses universes and becomes the next Black Panther
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Feb 02 '18
Oliver left to STOP A BOMB. Like wtf how is it his fault that he was trying to save millions
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u/MadmanIgar Feb 04 '18
Exactly, and the B team walked right into a trap, they should be the ones who feel bad
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u/ArachnoLad Feb 02 '18
It just occurred to me that this might be the first time we get a great Green Arrow and Black Canary scene since we've had Dinah on the show.
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
Oliver kills all the time, so I'm sure he won't mind that she's going to.
Except I'm sure he'll be sanctimonious about it.
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18
Right? The only reason he hasn't killed Cayden yet is because he's worried it'll inadvertantly cause him to nuke the city. And don't Renee and John kinda shoot people with their guns every time they fight? I mean, even if they are rubber bullets, that could still cause internal bleeding bad enough to kill someone, especially at such closer ranges.
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
He also threw a guy off a roof in this episode. At least 15-20 feet, so good chance it seriously injured or killed the guy.
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 03 '18
Well, to be fair, some of the things they just expect the audience to assume that the person didn't die just because they didn't confirm their deaths. If you honestly review Batman comics, there are definitely like a dozen incidents per issue that should've killed the person he was fighting outright, and if not outright, definitely in the long run. But it's comics, so Batman slamming a dude into the concrete so hard it causes a pot hole doesn't mean the guy is dead because it's incredibly hard for people to die if blunt force trauma in comics.
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Feb 02 '18
Dinah you can kill someone by screaming in their face, why use a gun?
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
Questionably quicker?
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Feb 02 '18
I meant when she talked about curing the city "with a bullet"
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u/aa22hhhh Feb 02 '18
I think she meant it as a saying rather than being serious about using bullets.
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
Dinah is going to be a kill-stealing teammate. Now that's just selfish.
Share that around.
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u/dkslide5 Feb 02 '18
I like how she just opens the door with a gun. Imagine if it was just a Girl Scout selling cookies
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u/JohnnyButtfart Feb 02 '18
3 in the morning?
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18
Clearly you haven't seen how ruthless and manipulative girl scouts can be. Lol, but seriously, it's actually pretty funny. True story. The other day I went to ShopRite to get some groceries and there were girl scouts outside selling cookie for $4 a box. When I pass their table, they Italy said to me "We're having a special sale. For today only, you can get 5 boxes for only $20".
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u/phenom0205 Feb 02 '18
Wait! You break off from the team, bring 2 others with you, but Oliver caused his death? Come on now
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u/TAZ_814 Feb 02 '18
He even said he didn't turn on his comms so clearly James was drawing out them out to be certain
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Feb 02 '18
Dinah's kind of a moron, though Oliver was a bit insensitive.
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18
Oh hell no. I wouldn't have apologized either. Nothing that happened was Ollie's fault. Not only did he not trust Vince going in and pulling the files, he also said it was probably a trap when his comms turned back on and he (or John, I can't remember) did the warehouse was too big for just the two of them to cover.
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u/TDXNYC88 Feb 02 '18
Plot twist: Adrian Chase had Lazarus Pit water and plotted this
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u/phenom0205 Feb 02 '18
So I thought the video was something Prometheus did before he died but now I'm disappointed that's not it
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u/TheRealPhantomHunter Feb 02 '18
I hope its Dragon
...just so Anatoli can run away and work on a certain suit back in the motherland
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u/vader344 Feb 02 '18
that ahh was so weak lance xd
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 03 '18
Why the hell would Lance give a shit that Vince died? I can't remember if they've actually ever even met when he wasn't shooting at them.
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u/KarmaLoaf Feb 02 '18
You don't have to be close to someone to know that they'd be pissed if their son was murdered.
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u/ArachnoLad Feb 02 '18
I bet this was all William's doing. That sneaky fuck.
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u/dumbledorethegrey Feb 04 '18
Little did we know he also was affected by the partial accelerator and went insane.
And why not since apparently everybody in Central City was affected by the partial accelerator to some extent.
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Feb 02 '18
Hahahaha that's awesome, someone's fucking with Cayden there's someone even bigger than him
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u/myrisotto73 Feb 02 '18
Wow that video looked so faked
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u/JohnnyButtfart Feb 02 '18
Yea, really. Footage of Oliver at night then a guy getting hit by an arrow in a well lit cafeteria.
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u/anthonyongg Feb 02 '18
Speaking of the FBI, what ever happened to that subplot lol
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u/Jedi-El1823 Feb 02 '18
They're now investigating Barry for being Green Arrow, Joker, Darkseid, Jack the Ripper, and the Zodiac.
Never let Cecile represent you.
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
...Malcolm, I swear to God if this is you...
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Feb 02 '18
I quit watching...was it Merlyn?
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
Others think the guy who actually killed Cayden's kid was Chase. Would more likely be him.
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Feb 02 '18
I’m sorry. I’m a lot drunk right now. I saw Merlyn’s name and got excited.
It would be unlikely that Barrowman would come back considering the circumstances surrounding his departure last season.
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u/js_the_beast Feb 02 '18
Diggle wouldn't be saying that stuff if it was his wife
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
or Felicity. Maybe Thea, though really, she just gets in the way of more OTA plots.
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
"You made the right call" because they only care about OTA in the writer's room.
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u/offisirplz Feb 02 '18
A whole city of people vs one dude.
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
He also has the city's police force at his disposal and complained about manpower.
My point is more to the fact that if it'd been Felicity, Digg, William or Thea (probably Thea, but the writers don't care as much about her as OTA), he'd have blown up the city himself to save them.
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u/CantheDandyMan Feb 02 '18
Did he not? I wouldn't put the lives of millions at stake under a dude that can regen from getting his brain blown out that also has tried to kill me a few times.
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u/MegalomaniacHack Feb 02 '18
All things being equal, you should save the city, but he'd have gone after Felicity, Digg, William or Thea (most likely) regardless of the stakes. He also gave no thought to the possibility that the intel was fake or it was a trap. Plus as far as who to trust, he's trusted Malcolm behind his friends' backs more than once and Malcolm's tried to kill him plenty.
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u/KarmaLoaf Feb 02 '18
HOLY SHIT SHE SAID THE EPISODE TITLE
HOLY FUCK THAT'S AMAZING WHAT AN INCREDIBLE THING I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE
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u/DerrellMVP Feb 02 '18
When did Renee's wife die?
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u/hydrosphere13 Feb 02 '18
before the glades blew up? or after it. it was in the renee flashback episode way of the gun in S5
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u/AngelusCowl Feb 02 '18
Rene, you got over your wife's death in a few days?
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
I think more that he was able to at least move after 10 days. Not necessarily get over completely.
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Feb 02 '18
Vigilante: Kinda lame after reveal but still interesting. Character that is still lovable
Dead
Felicity: Literally hasn’t been a good character for 4 seasons
You want more felicity scenes?
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u/myrisotto73 Feb 02 '18
Okay I'm on the Felicity hate wagon but man she didn't have many scenes this episode. Chill.
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u/HightopSV Feb 02 '18
I know most people don’t like Dinah as black canary but I really felt for her and the flashbacks helped this episode. I think he’s gonna come back just slowly heal and prob have amnesia due to his brains being fried and become a true vigilante.
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u/ArachnoLad Feb 02 '18
I've liked Dinah since she showed up. Am I in the minority?
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Feb 02 '18
Here comes Black Siren vs. New Black Canary
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u/myrisotto73 Feb 02 '18
Got to admit, it must hurt on some level knowing the power you have was used to kill your SO. Something to think about when she uses it from now on.
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u/JohnnyButtfart Feb 02 '18
I'm really trying to muster up the care for Vince. I'm far more interested in the way Laurel hesitated.
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Feb 02 '18
At least Vince didnt ship Olicity in his lifetime, on of the brave, and one of the few
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u/phenom0205 Feb 02 '18
I didn't think she'd do it. Then I thought he'd wake up. I never really cared much for him but man what a way to go
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u/LordCaedus13 Feb 02 '18
you know if you hadn't blown his cover by rescuing him he probably wouldn't be dead
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u/KarmaLoaf Feb 02 '18
Oh, I was expecting his head to pop.
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u/TacticusThrowaway Feb 02 '18
They don't have enough budget.
Also, that would push this to TV-MA.
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u/IronCookuru Feb 02 '18
So Vince is dead and they didn’t get the bomb. Well done guys.
Seems a little early in the season for the all is lost moment.
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Feb 02 '18
"...baby please baby please wake up" :'( I didn't really like Vince but he tried and he made Dinah happy
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u/IniMiney Feb 02 '18
Damn that was fucked up. I skipped the first half tonight but damn - last half is actually really intense.
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Feb 02 '18
I'm gonna be honest, his death hasn't made me feel the way some of the other ones have. I mean he's a cool character but he's only been here for a few episodes and spent almost all of them as a villain.
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Feb 02 '18
Rene is suddenly a doctor
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u/SchwarzerRegen123 Feb 02 '18
"I looked at that dude for a second, he's definitely dead, lady hoss."
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Feb 02 '18
Vigilante was literally the only interesting character left and he’s dead. Classic arrow 😒
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u/AngelusCowl Feb 02 '18
holy shit, that's probably the most graphic death on arrowverse show ever.
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u/TheRealPhantomHunter Feb 02 '18
Damn... im hoping to see that healing factor kick in
Vinny has grown on me
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Feb 02 '18
I think he’s still alive
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u/CiceroTheCat Feb 02 '18
I’m thinking he is too. If she could manipulate her powers as she wanted, there might be a trick.
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
What's left up there for him to still be him? Seems he'd at best be blank.
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u/ForgottenTactic Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 02 '18
Dinah would have been able to get out of the rubble if she imagined a voice in her head going: "If you're nothing without the suit, then you shouldn't have it."
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u/Jedi-El1823 Feb 02 '18
That scene was hard to watch, due to Holland crying and begging for help, reminding you that Spidey is still just a kid.
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u/InspiredOni Feb 02 '18
Always fun to seen the Particle Accelerator Night.
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Feb 03 '18
Always makes me think that they should have had original Laurel go to Central City (for a case or whatever) around the time the Accelerator blew up so she'd have a genuine Canary Cry like Dinah.
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u/robot_lords Feb 02 '18
Damn that was sick, can't stress enough how much better this show is when it's just Ollie
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Feb 02 '18
"Your ability to withstand extreme punishment is impressive" Cayden, we all sat through season 4 where's our praise for doing the same?
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u/ChibiToonsage Feb 08 '18
Save the one man that can self regen and wouldnt die vs getting the bomb and getting closer to stopping the baddies? Like why is team b so childish an petty. Also what happened to sharing the info the way team arrow did. How will Dinah be like if Vigilante came back cus he just needed time to regen. His heads still on tact and a scream is what is goin to kill him? C'mon man. Times like these we need arsenal, kid flash an hell a 1/2 of firestorm with just Jackson comin to help Ollie, even ragman without the rags Cus they sure cant be doing much Lol.