r/SubredditDrama • u/SS_Downboat • Oct 12 '17
Gamers gamble with their karma over whether or not loot boxes should be considered gambling
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u/CommunistRonSwanson Oct 12 '17
Hairsplitting and legal parsing aside, in essence loot boxes are absolutely gambling.
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u/Rarus Oct 13 '17
If it just took getting something every time to not consider it gambling then casinos could start giving pieces of gum to the losers and a chip to the winners.
Such a stupid argument.
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u/BloomEPU Oct 13 '17
Man, I'd totally go to a casino where you got something like a stick of gum or a chocolate bar when you lost. I'd still be gambling though, just gambling and having fun.
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u/B_Rhino Oct 13 '17
A casino can't give you something because what you bet and what you win are money, and if the thing you win is objectively worth less than what you bet, it's still a loss. But you never win money from a loot box.
In CS:Go and TF2 what you win only has value as far as people are willing to spend, it's not currency in the least.
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u/Zachums Oct 12 '17
Hey SS_Downboat! Thank you for your submission, unfortunately it has been removed from r/SubredditDrama because:
Your first two links don't have enough drama. If you remove them from your post I'll approve it.
For more on our rules, please check out our detailed rules wiki. If you have any questions or concerns about this removal feel free to message the moderators.
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u/Auriono Oct 12 '17 edited Oct 12 '17
The overwhelming majority of the time you open cases with keys, you "win" an item that's worth 2 or 5 cents on whatever marketplace the game uses. I'm not too familiar with cases in other games besides CSGO, but I suspect they all follow the same formula. It wouldn't be too profitable otherwise.
Anywho for CSGO at least, you buy a key that's worth $2.50, and you use that to open a case to get an item that's worth 10 cents around 90% of the time while a roulette box is scrolling in the background. These keys very conveniently don't drop in-game either, so you absolutely need to buy them on the market. People open these cases enmass in the hopes of winning an lucrative item that's worth far more than $2.50. Additionally, the items that you win have no inherit value and are not at all productive in game. They're mere skins used to decorate your weapon. Now, the concept of spending $2.50 to open a single case where you're very likely to win something that's worth 5 cents, have a slight chance of breaking even and even smaller one of making a good amount of money sounds an awful lot like gambling.
What makes matters worse is that the parents likely have absolutely no idea that the game they're kid has a gambling function in it. After all, gambling ventures were not part of the game's advertisement and there's nothing in the game description or cover to suggest that it is, so the chances of them being able to take preventative action and prevent a gambling addiction from developing is likely nil.
I have a pretty long history of participating in the finer aspects of the CSGO scene, and I've seen far too many people in their late teens and early 20s lose exorbitant amounts of money because they got roped into this. Sure there's also people that didn't have the means to make much make bank off of this but like all gambling stories, they're the minority.
No matter what semantics or mental gymnastics you use to insist otherwise, this is absolutely gambling. Now on an unnecessary side note, you would think the crowd that's supposedly so concerned for ethics in gaming would be just a little outraged to see companies making bank off of adding these psuedo gambling schemes into their games while targeting naive teenagers that don't realize what they're getting into.
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u/Concession_Accepted Oct 13 '17
naive teenagers that don't realize what they're getting into.
Naive teenagers aren't buying loot crates, they are busy fighting an online crusade, insisting that loot crates are gambling.
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u/hertzdonut2 Oct 13 '17
targeting naive teenagers that don't realize what they're getting into.
Do we have any actual figures on the age group that spends most of the money in these games?
I always imagined it was people like me, adults that have a middle class income and less time to play than a teenager who are buying these. I scoffed once at WoW selling level 90 characters for $60, until I realized the 20 hours it takes to level one myself is the equivalent of $1000 of my wages.
I make about $400 a day, so a hundred dollars on loot boxes is nothing to me.
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u/B_Rhino Oct 13 '17
Only CS:Go and TF2 have the resale of items, but only for steam credit, so it's a bit more of a grey area, they're the closest to actual gambling.
But people aren't complaining about those games, they're complaining about Shadow of War and Battlefront [with absolutely no resale of items] because they're the flashy new games they want to play.
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u/SnapshillBot Oct 12 '17
#BotsLivesMatter
Snapshots:
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This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is
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"Good. Great. Dont buy them if you ... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is
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"Casino games and this are not they... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is*
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"That's the dumbest argument agains... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is
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"it's fucking gambling, no matter h... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is*
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r/games - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is
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r/xboxone - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, removeddit.com, archive.is
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u/BCProgramming Oct 13 '17
If it requires real money to purchase a "loot box" then it is gambling.
if it allows you to use in-game currency, with the option to spend real money, it's an idiot tax.
if it doesn't allow you to use real money and only uses in-game currency, then it's perfectly fine.
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Oct 12 '17
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u/PatternrettaP Oct 12 '17
I think the deeper issue is that regardless of wether it meets the legal definition of gambling, it still hits all of the same mental triggers as real gambling. People can still get addicted and waste a lot of money doing it.
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u/Tacitus_ Oct 12 '17
That's what parental controls are for. A kid wouldn't (or cynically, shouldn't) steal their parents card to go buy trading cards.
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u/KlausFenrir Oct 12 '17
Remember when Mass Effect 3 had this in multiplayer? I bought about a hundred dollars’ worth of loot boxes in one weekend.
I quit the game after that.
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u/Kelmi Oct 13 '17
The discussions around lootboxes has made me think that the vast majority thinks gambling is black and white, either it is legally gambling or it's not at all.
In my country casino games like proper blackjack/roulette by the table are illegal, I think, and restricted to 21 years of age when in cruise ships.
Gambling machines in stores and such were rated for 15+, but later changed to 18+.
Can't there be nuance in the discussion related to gambling?
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u/H37man Oct 12 '17
I do not like loot boxes but to me they most resemble CCG packages. I also do not play MTG anymore. Any ways it sucks even more when it's actual affects game play like in the new battlefront.