r/SubredditDrama • u/TheBlueBlaze The Powers That Be want you to believe in "outer space" • Aug 20 '17
A post in r/MURICA lists "7 Things Every Kid Needs to Hear", and "Communism has failed every time it's been tried" is the odd one out.
Whenever someone criticizes communism, people always come out to defend it. Needless to say, that didn't go over well on the US-obsessed sub.
Original image: 7 Things Every Kid Needs To Hear
"I mean, China's red goverment is still around. It still sucks but its not dead."
"Curing aids has failed every time we've tried it, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying"
"Cept in Cuba, which MURICA has failed to stop despite trying its hardest for a century" <--- MOST DRAMA
"Well this sub has officially become shit."
BONUS COMMENTS:
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u/Patrollingthemojave0 Aug 20 '17
How many (non-dystopian) communist countries are there currently? Not trolling this is an honest question.
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u/Goroman86 Aug 20 '17
None. But there aren't really any purely Capitalist countries either.
But out of all the countries that have had a successful socialist revolution, Cuba is probably doing pretty well, comparatively.
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u/Patrollingthemojave0 Aug 20 '17
Cuba is probably doing pretty well, comparatively.
But hows life for the common person though?
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Aug 20 '17
Not incredible. Certainly not anything that someone from the US or UK would want to move to. But it's pretty good compared to neighbouring capitalist nations that have had similar development.
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u/Goroman86 Aug 20 '17
I can't really speak directly to that as non-Cuban, but likely better recently as the US embargo has been eased (along with other factors). The commenter praising Cuba in that thread posted some (suspect) statistics, but you may be able to find some more realistic answers from actual Cubans.
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u/DancesCloseToTheFire Aug 20 '17
I actually heard from a cuban coworker that the embargo is sorta back on track since trump.
Still, it isn't that bad over there, only big complaint I heard was the lack of internet, since only Venezuela was willing to connect to them.
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Aug 20 '17
But hows life for the common person though?
Better than average life in neighboring capitalist Central American countries that's for sure.
Compared to the USA, Cuba has a lower percentage of people that starve to death. Much lower homelessness. Free healthcare. And a lower infant mortality rate.
And this is despite all the constant embargoes and sanctions put on it.
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u/moraigeanta Aug 20 '17
It's frightening to me how many Americans don't realize how much the embargo affects the standard of living in Cuba today... It is definitely one of the biggest issues in modern Cuba w/ lack of access to crucial resources and trade. Not to say that Cuba would be perfect otherwise but it's not as simple as THEY SUCK CUZ COMMUNISM LULZ
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Aug 21 '17
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u/theMaxscart Aug 22 '17
I'm curious, what makes you think otherwise?
The situation of many countries in Central America, South America, and the Caribbean is still relatively bad, and their history has been riddled with violence and inequity. Cuba has made loads of progress and achievements even with the difficulties they've had across the years.
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Aug 20 '17
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u/gatocurioso Aug 20 '17
Probably because he lives a better, middle class life on a capitalist first world country. Which doesn't contradict anything he said really.
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u/Guppyscum Aug 20 '17
Cuba suffered from a toilet paper and soap shortage recently, and I think it is a likely occurrence in the nation. It's strange to see multiple buildings in Havana basically empty or eroding away, and the same goes for the roads (some roads are really, really bad) which shows their infrastructure is pretty abysmal. I don't know how their healthcare or education system is however, considering people view that as Cuba's strongest achievements as a socialist nation. Also interesting to have to consider the US embargo on the nation.
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Aug 20 '17
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u/Sprickels Aug 20 '17
I mean, it's not that different from the US, only you can criticize the state, your dreams will most likely not come true either.
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Aug 20 '17
Cuba is also experiencing privatization. The private secror is growing from 8% of employment in 1981 to 23% in 2000 and probably alot higher now. the Cuban government has loosened restriction on private property, licensing, etc... while legalizing small and medium enterprise.
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u/BluRidgeMNT Aug 20 '17 edited Aug 20 '17
They actually just put a major freeze on the authorization of private businesses. Basically they aren't giving out licenses for anything anymore. They said they want to 'perfect' it and make sure there aren't tax evasions and stuff like that.
Their citizens are already feeling the squeeze from the embargo, rolled back relations with the US, Venezuela collapsing.... so their own government decides to add to the pressure. I think the Cuban government felt like they were losing to much control to fast
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u/DrukDruk Aug 20 '17
When Cuba is the best example of your ideology, it might be time to rethink some of your beliefs.
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Aug 21 '17
Saying that cuba is doing better than the rest is like saying it's the smartest kid in the special ed class, it's still shit compared to any first world capitalist country
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u/CollaWars Aug 23 '17
The vast major of countries are purely capitalist. Having a public sector isn't antithetical to capitalism.
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Aug 20 '17
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u/kangjinw Aug 20 '17
This kinda gets into why this discussion is hard to have. Economies aren't self contained to individual countries or otherwise bubbled away from geopolitics in general, but people tend to see them as such. So when it goes into what works and what doesn't it becomes too compartmentalized. If you take the US for example the full picture would contain not just US territory itself, but the overall function of it in the world and events that created it and sustain it.
If we define success through general well being, then of course we would have to take into account the trans atlantic slave trade, the annexations and genocides, and the underlying layer of foreign dystopias erected to fuel American industries. Compounding this is also that in many case the victims have been annihilated entirely and thus wouldn't appear in any current statistical snapshots measuring things like hunger or housing.
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u/DancesCloseToTheFire Aug 20 '17
That's not an indicator of Communism's (lack of) success, but more of an indicator of which lengths capitalist countries go to to make sure there are no communist countries.
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u/cnzmur Aug 20 '17
I'm pretty sure for Communist countries in general there're only four left: China, Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea.
China and Vietnam aren't really communist at all (though they become very communist if you want to start a political party, or join a religion they don't like), and aren't really 'dystopian'. Cuba's probably as close as you'd get: it's still fairly communist, and the standard of living is pretty typical of poorer Central American countries, though they're more politically repressive than is typical. North Korea is North Korea.
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Aug 20 '17
Eh, North Korea is even less communist then those other states. It's morphed into a juche based ideology ruled by an almost monarchical cult of personality based around a slovenly god-king. It's actually interesting to read the history about the nation to see how the government has evolved.
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u/TeddysBigStick Aug 21 '17
I believe that the most recent versions of their national documents removed all mentions of communism.
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u/aski3252 Aug 21 '17
There is also Laos and Rojava. Rojava isn't officially recognized yet, but they have been doing quite well despite having to defend against ISIS and taking in huge amounts of refugees.
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u/DancesCloseToTheFire Aug 20 '17
I think the main thing with this question is that most people aren't aware of how big a role the US played in the downfall of most communist countries. Just the threat of communism was enough for them to turn half of south america into a nightmare back in the 70s.
It's not that communism never worked, but more along the lines of people ignoring how many times capitalism has screwed us over, amd how many times it went out of its way to screw communism over.
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Aug 20 '17
If sandcastles are so good how come every time my nephew builds one I kick it over and spit on them? LOOKS LIKE SANDCASTLES JUST CAN'T STAND UP!
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u/TotesMessenger Aug 20 '17
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[r/enoughcommiespam] Person makes mistake of asking why communist countries have failed. Cue the commies.
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / ^Contact)
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Aug 20 '17
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u/Illogical_Blox Aug 20 '17
These are called Mixed Economy Socialism
They are social democracies, distance themselves explicitly from socialism, and have comparatively loose regulations and a very free market.
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u/E_manny1997 Aug 20 '17
But you'll still get called a commie if you suggest anything close to the system in Switzerland.
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Aug 20 '17
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Aug 21 '17
Switzerland, Ireland, and Denmark are placed at 4th, 8th, and 12th of even a libertarian-leaning think tank's own "economic freedom" rankings as of 2016. Other than Denmark, the others are "freer" than the U.S. by the Heritage Foundation's logic. Don't let that stop you from being so rude to someone with zero provocation, though.
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u/SnapshillBot Aug 20 '17
You're oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of adding nothing to the discussion.
Snapshots:
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This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"I mean, China's red goverment is s... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"Curing aids has failed every time ... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"1. Taxation is theft" - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"Cept in Cuba, which MURICA has fai... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"1. You'll be obligated to work unt... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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"Well this sub has officially becom... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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Reply to a deleted comment - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is
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u/drossbots Aug 20 '17
Seems like the drama is coming from inside the sub again
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u/moraigeanta Aug 20 '17
I'm convinced people with extreme views on all topics just spend all day following around mentions of their favorite things to argue about. They are truly the heroes of drama.
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Aug 20 '17
Funny how there's both a libertarian and a Cuba apologist in the same thread. I wonder if there's going to be any drama in this thread as well.
Also, I'm not sure if the background image of the WTC towers is ironic or not.
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Aug 20 '17
Man, r/MURICA has become cancerous. It's just circlejerk without self awareness.
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u/Lukethehedgehog Aug 21 '17
I didn't even know they were serious, I thought it was meant as a satire of extreme American patriotism.
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Aug 20 '17
Not real Communism tho!!!!!
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u/flutterguy123 Aug 21 '17
Who would have guessed that things which don't fit the definition of communism shouldn't be called communism.
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u/dIoIIoIb Aug 20 '17
1 million in 70 years is 1/40 of the Cubans who have lived during that period, and most left at the beginning because they were rich sugar farm owners who were cheating their taxes.
Didn't know there was half a million sugar farm owners before the revolutions in Cuba
that's a lot of sugar farms
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Aug 20 '17
I think you're underestimating the size of the Cuban island and overestimating the size of most of these farms.
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u/godplaysdice_ Aug 20 '17
I mean, sure go ahead and tell your child this if you want them to live with you until they're 40.