r/arrow • u/Rwings Boxing Glove • Feb 15 '17
[S05E13] - 'Spectre of the Gun' Live Episode Discussion
Episode Info: A traumatic attack on City Hall triggers painful memories for Rene about his family. Flashbacks reveal how Rene went from simple family man to a hero named Wild Dog. Meanwhile, Oliver must deal with the perpetrator behind the attack and realizes the best way to do so is as Mayor Queen instead of the Green Arrow. Tensions run high in the Arrow bunker.
Main Cast
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u/Jopthebass Feb 16 '17
As long as they keep making valid points on either side of this gun control I'm actually okay with this being so political.
Plus comic Olivier is super political.
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u/Msandova28 Feb 16 '17
Oh are you kidding? He's SUPER liberal and political lmaoooo, I mean he's basically Robin Hood for a reason lol. But yeah pretty good reasoning for it Ngl, if that's why they did it
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u/SawRub Feb 16 '17
Yeah if they really wanted to be comic accurate Oliver would have gone full Bernie lol.
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u/Livin_Thing Feb 16 '17 edited Feb 16 '17
Except the points aren't valid. "Assault rifle" is not a real term in civilian use, an Armalite isn't "basically" an M-16, is not and can never be made automatic if sold as a civilian weapon, and is the most common weapon sold in the United States for a reason.
Edit: If they had said the gun was purchased illegally and was automatic for that reason, fine. If they had characterized the weapon properly, fine. I don't like them using buzzwords and lies though.
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u/PortugalTheHam Feb 17 '17
I was under the impression that the AR-15 could be easily modified to be fully automatic. Is that real or just something they say in video games and movies?
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u/sammylaco Feb 16 '17
Yeah it's like Curtis was just saying. They can present their points, you don't have to agree with them, but we can all just move on without hating each other.
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u/HayesCooper19 Feb 16 '17
I found it tremendously ironic that Curtis, perhaps the most liberal character on the show, was the one denouncing political correctness.
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u/dalr3th1n Feb 20 '17
I like that the "solution" was to pass a law that "respects gun rights but will reduce gun violence."
Like, what was the law? Does it do anything? Can we have it in real life?
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u/FriendLee93 Feb 16 '17
Prometheus descends from the heavens
"Guns are bad."
tosses throwing star into someone's face and ziplines away
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u/the_456_Ambassador Feb 16 '17
But I don't owe it to you
~Badass Oliver
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u/Msandova28 Feb 16 '17
I took off my sunglasses and said "DAAAAAAAMN"
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u/HayesCooper19 Feb 16 '17
And as soon as you said that, "Won't Get Fooled Again" started blaring through your sound system.
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u/amadoamata Feb 16 '17
That daughter is a whole lot older than I thought she'd be.
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u/Jopthebass Feb 16 '17
Right? Was expecting an 8 year old tops.
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u/amadoamata Feb 16 '17
Seriously. How old is Renee? Have they ever told us?
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u/nsabet6192 Feb 16 '17
I just looked it up and Rick Gonzalez (Renee's actor) is 37. I wouldn't have thought he's that old but I guess it's possible he could have a daughter about that age.
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u/aardvarkyardwork Feb 16 '17
Not sure about Rene, but Rick Gonzalez is 37. Plenty old enough to have a 12 year old daughter.
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Feb 16 '17
I'm pretty sure ninenty percent of kids that age would roll their eyes at Rene's bullshit.
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u/the_456_Ambassador Feb 16 '17
Curtis is statistically more likely to be stabbed in the chest, given the universe he lives
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u/judd243 Feb 16 '17
Or stabbed in general what's the count up to now? Dude can't avoid knives unless I'm imagining him being stabbed multiple times.
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u/DevoutJoJo Feb 16 '17
That black reporter dude has been on this show for so long. From since episode 1
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u/judd243 Feb 16 '17
He's no Perd Hapley but he's a pretty solid news reporter.
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u/duckie523 Feb 16 '17
That statement which you have said, has been said. This is "Ya Herd With Perd." Join us next week, when we will be here to join you, next week.
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u/RahvinDragand Feb 16 '17
"Here's a mysterious solution to gun violence that we won't describe in any way."
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u/MeatTornado25 Feb 16 '17
I'd be really goddamn impressed if a bunch of CW writers could come up with a logical gun violence solution that both sides could actually agree on. If a solution actually existed, we would've found it in the real world by now. So I'm glad they didn't even try to tell us what Mayor Queen and the Councilwoman agreed upon.
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u/AnimeF Feb 19 '17
Actually 90% of people believe in common-sense Gun Control policies, but...the NRA.
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u/alcabazar Feb 19 '17
90% say they favour preventing people on the terror watch list from buying a gun
Who are you, other 10%? You intrigue me, I'd like to sit down and ask you so many of life's questions.
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u/Idie_999 Feb 19 '17
It's a list with no due process. You can be tossed on it for going to the same mosque as someone else on the watch list.
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u/AnimeF Feb 19 '17
There are some who argue the terror watch list is open to suspicion, as being discriminatory on black and Muslim minorities and immigrants.
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u/complex_reduction Feb 19 '17
I don't want to get political, I'm not even American, but if people "support a ban" does that mean that as of right now felons / the mentally ill / suspected terrorists can legally buy guns?
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u/AnimeF Feb 19 '17
Its...complicated... One big example is the "Gunshow loophole." A registered Gun shop (One with a Federal firearms License) is required to do some background checks.
But under personal freedoms, a Private seller does not need to do so because, A gun is there private property and they should have the freedom to sell it as they like.
Officially it says "[a]ny person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms".
Again people who CANNOT buy guns can still buy from them "private sellers" and the private seller can easily feign ignorance.
And under all of it is the NRA who have a strong "Gateway Legislation" mentality. In other words, "any laws restricting Gun use in any ways whatsoever, will ABSOLUTELY lead to a police state and a government that undermines American values and will not allow people to take care of themselves." (Again I have my own views.)
Quite honestly no-one knows why it is, except the people who have the patience to read all the history and legislation.
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u/gotoucanario Feb 22 '17
Whether you'd found a reasonable solution or not there will always be someone unreasonable enough to disagree with it
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u/somebody1993 Feb 16 '17
Makes it easy, people were already thrown by the introduction of politics anyway. If they actually took a position a lot of people would be pissed off.
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u/aardvarkyardwork Feb 16 '17
What, and ruin a perfectly good episode by starting a raging debate about whether or not those measures would have been effective? They played it exactly as they should have.
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u/galkardm Feb 16 '17
Tommy was killed cause the Barrowman dropped a building on him. We need earthquake machine control.
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u/Koala_Guru Feb 16 '17
He wasn't saying guns killed him, he was saying that he understood the right people feel to protect themselves.
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u/MoRiellyMoProblems Feb 16 '17
I keep my earthquake machine locked up in a safe at home in case I need to defend myself from an intruder. Of course there's the possibility I'll be killed before I can open the safe.
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u/tresclow Feb 27 '17
Earthquakes don't kill people. People activating redundant earthquake machines in order to cleanse the city kill people.
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Feb 16 '17 edited Feb 16 '17
Fan: Man Arrow is just a Batman rip-off
Guggie, Wendy, Scimitar and co: (Make an episode tackling political themes like good ol liberal comicbook Ollie)
Fan: Man what is this political bull??
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u/JakeSpurs Feb 16 '17
Oliver is the fucking mayor!!! I don't know why people don't think there would be political issues brought up.
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u/gattovatto Feb 16 '17
They need a season of him and Hal destroying prejudice and solving problems across America.
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u/FortressAB Feb 16 '17
More like where did it come from in the narrative of this show?
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Feb 16 '17
Arrow has talked about drug addiction during season 1, and politics/guns during season 2. Now, this season is all about hypocrisy, what's right or wrong, and how Oliver is not solving problems by being the Green Arrow. This episode shows that. It's the first time we see Oliver being invested in his dutty as the mayor and reacting to an attack to his office. So where did it came from? From a show where the main character is a politician, vigilantes and criminals use guns, and how much is a life worth being questioned week after week since the season premiere.
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u/MrWinks Feb 16 '17
PSA episodes were a thing in all kinda of shows. CW is likely taking responsibility for the ages of their audience and owning up to their ability to make entertainment out of violence in light of their main hero killing again.
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u/muhash14 Feb 16 '17
Didn't Batman have a gun argument with Simon Baz just this month though?
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u/Char543 Feb 16 '17
A list? A LIST? What are you going to do? Fucking kill them??
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Feb 16 '17
No he's obviously going to try and work something through with them. How did you even get murder from that statement?
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u/phenom0205 Feb 16 '17
Well to be fair the last list of people with power in the city he killed lol
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u/Trigger_impact Feb 16 '17
Unpopular opinion: I enjoy Rene
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u/tsmartin123 Feb 16 '17
He's growing on me.
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u/MrWinks Feb 16 '17
His flashback scenes were very poorly scripted and possibly acted, however I love his character and the acting out of that awful flashback sequence.
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u/Char543 Feb 16 '17
It's actually a pretty popular one, as far as I can tell. He just started off as a shitty guy who just disobeyed Ollie and got his ass handed to him.
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u/SawRub Feb 16 '17
Yeah people were talking about how they started to like him months ago when he bonded with Diggle.
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u/DevoutJoJo Feb 16 '17
He's had the most development of the recruits IMO.
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u/internetlurker Feb 16 '17
Well Curtis has been around for a while so if they haven't developed him yet they probably won't.
Evelyn is gone so can't really do much for her atm.
And Rory was pretty much there to be a way for Felicity to get over her "I nuked a city" pity party.
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u/SiliconOverlord27 Feb 16 '17
I know we all hate Felicity here. But anyone else find it odd she hasn't weighed in on the guns matter considering she was paralyzed by a gunshot?
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u/ArachnoLad Feb 16 '17
She strikes me as the kind of person that has a gun, but never talks about it.
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u/HayesCooper19 Feb 16 '17
Since when has Felicity been the type to not talk about anything?
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u/SawRub Feb 16 '17
There are a lot of people who are like that, or wouldn't mind being like that. I've found that most people are closer to the center than they pretend to be.
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u/Bcabalum17 Feb 16 '17
Holy shit I totally forgot about that!
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u/AndersFiji Feb 16 '17
"Hey I made this microchip that'll make you be able to walk again! Don't ask me how it works though."
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u/LocoComa Feb 16 '17
Well, now that you mention it.
But, hey, I'm not gonna complain about her talking less.
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u/AnimeF Feb 19 '17
I did like how she weighed in with thinking the debate was useless.
We all have those friends who get super political and onother who says, "Just stop arguing, its not healthy" So I really liked the interaction between her and Curtis.
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u/complex_reduction Feb 19 '17
I thought it was hilarious that by far the most loudmouthed and openly opinionated person in the entire DC TV universe was unwilling to discuss something.
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Feb 16 '17
Damn adrenaline is a hell of a drug. Rene took one to the chest and shrugged it off.
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u/seemylolface Feb 16 '17
Looked more like his shoulder/just under the collarbone. Honestly not much to really hit there. Obviously it's still going to hurt like Fucking crazy but as far as place a to take a bullet and keep going is concerned that's got to be one of the best spots to take the hit.
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u/duckie523 Feb 16 '17
B-But...the subclavian artery is literally "under the clavicle"...and if he was hit more medial than that, it surely would have punctured the lung. Confirmed: Rene is an invincible robot
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u/LightningRaven Feb 17 '17
His daughter and waifu were on the line, though. Aside from a shot in the head, he would've kept going.
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u/mr_duong567 Feb 16 '17
"Not your call to make"
Couldn't have said it better Ollie
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Feb 16 '17
Something a good Catholic lawyer would say.
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u/mr_duong567 Feb 16 '17
Exactly what I thought of too. That conversation between Matt and Frank was amazing.
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u/sammylaco Feb 16 '17
Was that the "Oliver queen was found" guy?
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u/TDXNYC88 Feb 16 '17
Hey, guys. There's gonna be some violence.
No shit, Sherlock.
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u/UpvoteIfYouAgreee Feb 16 '17
Probably had to do with people being sensitive about mass shooting though we have had city wide terrorist attacks in the show, so yeah no shit
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u/Sonia341 Feb 16 '17
I loving this scene. Mr. Amell's doing a great job of trying to get through the shooter without getting himself, the shooter, or anyone else killed
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u/ArachnoLad Feb 16 '17
Daughter doesn't give a shit about the fight. She put big money on the game.
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Feb 16 '17
Oh no, Weird Al Yankovic is gonna kill his wife!
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u/amadoamata Feb 16 '17
Curtis with the truth bomb. There's nothing wrong with talking as long as you don't take everything personally.
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u/Sonia341 Feb 16 '17 edited Feb 16 '17
"There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate." Agree, but both sides needs to be civil when debating
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u/Shippoyasha Feb 16 '17
At this rate, we'll see Bruce Wayne's parents killed this episode.
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u/RahvinDragand Feb 16 '17
"It's a complicated issue with valid concerns from both sides." "Booo! We demand basic emotional response!"
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u/hosekisho Feb 16 '17
Can we all take a moment to appreciate Adrian pulled himself from the hospital to give us at least one Vigilante scene?
Thanks dude.
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Feb 16 '17
Okay Curtis but like you can't lecture Rene on this. If there was ever an episode where Rene was in the right it would be this one. I say this as someone who is pretty pro-gun control.
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u/Shippoyasha Feb 16 '17
What I don't get is, why is the gun issue a suddenly new thing in this series when we already saw mass shootings in both mayoral office and the police department?
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u/Char543 Feb 16 '17
"Hi, I'm your daughter's replacement" - Dinah