r/SubredditDrama • u/TheLadyEve The hippest fashion in malthusian violence. • Oct 02 '16
OP in /r/relationship_advice gets his friend with benefits pregnant, and drama starts when someone asks him why they don't seek an abortion
/r/relationship_advice/comments/55cwch/i_28_m_got_my_fwb_26_f_pregnant_what_do_i_do_now/d89oir4?st=itsp3t33&sh=0f28005093
u/TheLadyEve Oct 02 '16
people need to remember that sex isn't a way to have fun with no consequences.
Ah, the obligatory puritanical shaming of healthy adult sexuality.
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
I don't see it as shaming, sex can have consequences. Whether it's unplanned pregnancy, or STD.
Isn't part of sex education to educate the possible consequences and ways to mitigate against them?
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u/TheLadyEve Oct 02 '16 edited Oct 02 '16
I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's not just the statement that sex has consequences--of course sex has potential consequences which is why you have to be well informed and have access to birth control and abortion, too.
The issue is how it's phrased--"sex isn't a way to have fun..." There's a puritanical subtext that fun things are never free and sex that's not for procreation is not ideal. It's just the way they say "Yes, sure, we live in a 'sex for fun', fwb and ONS culture." It sounds so...disapproving. You know, that's not the way I choose to live my life, either, but I'm not going to shit all over people for taking a more casual attitude towards sex. However, maybe I'm just inferring too much.
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u/sn0tface Oct 02 '16
I don't like the attitude that children are an punishment for sex. A consequence doesn't have to be inherently negative, but it does have a negative connotation.
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u/Iggyhopper Oct 02 '16
It's negative because when you usually think of accidental pregnancy all the terrible situations come out from the theorybox in your head.
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u/GaslightProphet Oct 02 '16
Ignoring what comes after your ellipses is a bit irresponsible. Sex is a way to have fun. It is not a way to have consequence free fun. If I say that race car driving is not a way to have consequence free fun, I'm not saying that race car driving is not fun, nor am I shaming race car drivers
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u/47Ronin Oct 02 '16
What way to have fun is consequence free? Drinking can fuck you up. Eating too much good food can make you fat. Sports can injure you. Race car driving could result in crashes. Playing video games could hurt your health or social development.
Every choice you make has potential negative consequences. And yet we have to especially acknowledge the possible negative consequences of sex every time it comes up because....
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u/Doomsayer189 Oct 02 '16
I definitely think you're reading too much into it. They even state outright in their later comments that they're not against abortion or even necessarily casual sex. They're mostly just saying that pregnancy is something you need to take into consideration when having sex- for men and women both- which hardly seems disagreeable to me, especially considering how flippant the other commenters were acting about abortion.
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u/Illogical_Blox Oct 02 '16
Yeah, I think you are reading too much into it. Cutting off the end of that phrase takes out a lot of the context.
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u/FixinThePlanet Oct 02 '16
Yeah, it's not like drinking or partying aren't fun without consequences...
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u/SaucyWiggles Oct 02 '16
Sex is a way to have fun, and the comment you quoted doesn't contradict that. Many people clearly do not understand the potential risks.
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Oct 02 '16
That person is anti-choice so I'm sure it has more to do with misogyny than anything else.
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u/dancing_piglet Oct 02 '16
Exactly. Consequences does not mean punishment. It means result or outcome of action. Absolutely every action we do has a consequence. This has nothing to do with value judgements.
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u/SuitableDragonfly Oct 02 '16
But what that person meant was that sex has a punishment.
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u/dancing_piglet Oct 02 '16
Interesting. I read that as "the possible consequences of sex can be rather more serious than most other [consequences]".
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u/commanderspoonface Oct 02 '16
I'm a lesbian (lowest rate of STD transmission) and infertile so lolololololol suck it str8 people
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u/HenkieVV Oct 02 '16
The thing is that sex does not always have consequences, which is why that statement can be read two ways: either sex might have consequences, so we should prepare people to handle that, or sex should have consequences, so we should absolutely not prepare people to handle it.
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u/Mikeavelli Oct 02 '16
Usually a line like that is a buildup to "now suck it up and deal with the consequences."
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u/bushiz Oct 02 '16
I don't see it as shaming, sex can have consequences. Whether it's unplanned pregnancy, or STD.
Isn't part of sex education to educate the possible consequences and ways to mitigate against them?
How is getting an abortion not doing exactly that?
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Oct 02 '16
Puritanical shaming or standard sex-ed class, you mean. But I guess it depends on how you parse that sentence.
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u/TheLadyEve Oct 02 '16
I guess it depends on how you parse that sentence.
Absolutely, I agree. I think that, perhaps, I was being a bit uncharitable on my first reading.
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u/M0n5tr0 Oct 02 '16
But they are right. Even if it ends with them getting an abortion that's something that could have been avoided because there are consequences to just having fun without caring about consequences when it comes to sex. Doesn't matter their reasoning. Getting pregnant is a consequence and the next step you chose is also, no matter how they feel about abortions. A abortion is definitely not something anyone wants to do weather is because of money, beliefs, or just not wanting one more thing to have to plan out.
If you just exchange STD for abortion everyone would agree they are irresponsible and aren't taking the consequences seriously.
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u/thesilvertongue Oct 02 '16
I wonder if these people will seek treatment for STDs or simply accept the consequences as God intended.
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
Well there is a difference between seeking treatment for an STD and deciding together not to have an abortion.
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u/thesilvertongue Oct 02 '16
Oh absolutely, but the consequences line is often used to shame any woman for getting an abortion ever.
But seriously, if she and OP don't want an abortion, because they're not comfortable with it, they shouldn't get one.
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Oct 02 '16
Why? They are both basic medical treatment for unpleasant conditions with dire consequences.
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
I get it, you're r/childfree, but some people have problems with Abortions and you can't pretend they don't.
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u/BlutigeBaumwolle Oct 02 '16
healthy adult sexuality
It's not that healthy if you get an unwanted pregnancy, but yeah other than that i agree.
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u/TW_CountryMusic Oct 03 '16
What? You don't have to be unhealthy/unsafe to get pregnant unintentionally. Accidents happen. My mom had an IUD when she got pregnant with me.
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u/NinjaRedditorAtWork Oct 02 '16
When in doubt, scoop it out.
This is pretty good.
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u/JamesPolk1844 Oct 02 '16
I don't know. I'm pro-choice, but I find this kind of casual dismissal of any moral qualms with abortion to be distasteful.
I'll fight tooth and nail to keep abortion legal, but I don't see any value with being callous towards people who decide that they personally don't want it for moral reasons.
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u/clumpymascara Oct 03 '16
Yep. OP said abortion was off the table, this guy goes on in multiple chains about how they need to abort.
When I saw this yesterday, he was downvoted everywhere. I'm kind of repulsed that its flipped in the other direction. It's pro-choice not tell people they're fucking stupid if they don't terminate
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Oct 03 '16
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u/McLeod3013 Oct 03 '16
Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this. Even married people have unexpected pregnancies where finances are not at their best and they get motivated.
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Oct 03 '16
Yeah, I thought it was kind of mean. It's okay to choose to have an abortion, and it's also okay to choose not to have one for whatever reason.
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u/NinjaRedditorAtWork Oct 02 '16
I am just saying the saying is pretty catchy - not condoning one thing or another.
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
We've never discussed any kind of official relationship, because we're just friends who fuck and sleep together, we've never took eachother out on dates or anything like that at all.
Add that they live together and share a bed and you would be describing quite a few marriages I know.
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Oct 02 '16
If this person's story gets turned into a movie, they need to be played by Michael Cera.
Then both the man and the woman are too awkward to bring up abortion and are too afraid that the other person won't love them anymore if they do that they just awkwardly agree to have the kid...
...and soon enough they're married because one of their friends drunkenly said "you guys should get married" and they both said "yeah...." at the same time and were afraid to back out after that.
Then they live happily ever after, and the kid grows up happy in a loving household etc.
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u/snallygaster Oct 02 '16
This sounds like the most generic mid-2000's mumblecore film plot ever spawned, excellent work toir
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u/JustHereToFFFFFFFUUU Oct 02 '16
yeah, it sounds like it could be a kinda sweet situation, i hope it works out well for them.
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u/YesThisIsDrake Oct 02 '16
Not dark enough.
The twist is that its actually the reincarnation of Hitler.
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Oct 02 '16
Too bad the actuality of it is not happy for anyone.
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u/oxfordcircumstances Oct 02 '16
Bro, some people are happy.
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Oct 02 '16
Please show me the studies on the number of people raising heathy rando babies in poverty.
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u/berychance Oct 02 '16
Why don't you show the study that shows that no one is happy under those circumstances?
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
How do we know?
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Oct 02 '16
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u/dantheman_woot Oct 02 '16
But nothing in the post gives a hint at poverty. There are plenty of children born from unplanned pregnancies that grow up living happy lives.
I know you are in the linked thread advocating for an abortion, and I know you are proud r/child free. I really feel that you are projecting.
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u/bdevx Oct 02 '16
Funny, but most likely troll. 3D old account, 1 post, no comments.
I enjoyed it though
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u/slimepuke Oct 03 '16
I thought most people made throwaways for these kinds of highly personal advice posts anyway?
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u/bdevx Oct 03 '16
Most likely. But still no replies? Why ask questions if your not gunna reply. Not to mention it's painfully obvious that that situation is not a FWB thing
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u/AuNanoMan Oct 02 '16
OP is straight up in a relationship and it sounds like every good long term relationship is have ever seen. What does he expect a relationship to be other than living together, spending a lot of time together, and having sex? You don't want to get rid of the kid? Okay. Do you have a stable job? Maybe raising it in the stable relationship you have created isn't such a bad thing and to me sounds like how most children are raised.
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u/TheDragonsBalls Oct 02 '16
I mean there's a difference between being friends who happen to have sex, and being in a serious romantic relationship. There's the expectation of exclusivity, giving a much greater degree of emotional support, and having the same general life plan. I don't think living together and fucking necessarily mean that they're in a stable enough relationship to raise a child together.
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u/AuNanoMan Oct 02 '16
Oh of course but the way he is talking about it it sounds like a relationship and if not, it wouldn't take much to get fully on board. I mean, they don't want to abort it, the only other option is to give it up for adoption really. It's a tough choice but from the outside it looks like a solid relationship.
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u/Iggyhopper Oct 02 '16 edited Oct 02 '16
when we moved to a new apartment and started sharing a bed.
How would the logistics of dating other people for either of them work out? Like... at all?
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u/AuNanoMan Oct 02 '16
Yeah for real. It's so hard to have a relationship with someone you share a bed and have sex with. The idea is just so foreign!
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Oct 03 '16
Eh, I have a partner-friend I live with and sleep in the same bed as, and I just straight-up only date poly people if I date at all. Far as I've been able to figure, it's the safest way to go about it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
...which does make it a different kettle of fish than OP denying that his relationship is functionally romantic no matter the feelings involved.
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u/Dollface_Killah Oct 02 '16
I've actually been there, though it was a temporary arrangement. We just agreed to only fuck people at their houses. Unless threesome.
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u/Pixiepup Oct 02 '16
The expectation of exclusivity isn't necessary either. I know plenty of polyamorous people providing stable, healthy homes for their children
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u/su5 Oct 02 '16
This is true and took me a long time to realize. My ex wife was like a roommate coparent fuck buddy for the last 5 years. It was one of those "comfortable with the uncomfort" situations. Seems fine on paper, but when there is no love it usually doesn't end well.
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Oct 02 '16
I don't think living together and fucking necessarily mean that they're in a stable enough relationship
I think it does imply that they're in a relationship though.
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u/RedditsInBed2 Oct 02 '16
This is the correct answer. I couldn't imagine having a kid with someone just because we got along well, there are so many other factors. What are our goals for our future, are we willing to make sacrifices for each other if our goals don't line up, how are we raising the kid? Religion? Public schooling? Private schooling? Spanking? Time out? Etc...
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u/DresdenPI Oct 02 '16
The relationship might only work because the two of them aren't sharing responsibilities with each other. In a fwb relationship you don't share finances, you don't care about each other's career choices. If one of you decides to go to Alaska for a year you don't have to worry about whether you're going to be in a long distance relationship or breaking up. Having been in the same sort of relationship as the op before, minus the pregnancy, I'm pretty sure the two of us would have grown to hate each other over financials and family issues if we'd been considering a future together instead of just having fun.
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u/AuNanoMan Oct 02 '16
I mean I get all of that, I'm just trying to take the outside view which is that moving into a relationship probably wouldn't take that much extra effort.
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u/DresdenPI Oct 02 '16
If you're in this type of relationship you've already decided not to pursue a romantic relationship. Those issues aren't going to go away once the kids shows up, they're going to be exacerbated by the extra source of stress.
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u/AuNanoMan Oct 02 '16
You are right, nothing ever changes and there is no way their feelings could change.
Come on, they clearly have some kind of feelings already. It's not a stretch for them to decided to give it a shot and it isn't a stretch to think it might work.
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u/lalala253 Oct 03 '16
Are you really curious about a guy who says he just impregnated a girl and decides to ask reddit registering the nick ayyyylmaolol?
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u/sweetalkersweetalker Oct 02 '16
When in doubt scoop it out
I feel bad for laughing but I can't stop
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u/Deerscicle Oct 02 '16
I'm generally pro-choice, because there are a shit ton of legitimate reasons to have an abortion. But for so many people to flippantly suggest abortion bothers me. An abortion should be a huge fucking decision based on a shit ton of factors, not "oops, I guess we're getting an abortion".
You're ending the life of a potential human being, that came from you. Shit like that thread makes it really easy to see why some people are pro-life pretty much no matter what the circumstances.
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u/snallygaster Oct 03 '16 edited Oct 03 '16
At the same time, placing a huge amount of gravity on the decision to have an abortion also might contribute to the stigma by turning it into a shameful or extremely traumatic event when it doesn't have to be. iirc something like 1/3 of "potential human beings" are terminated before a woman even realizes that she's pregnant. Do these unknown miscarriages have to be turned into emotional or heavy events just because they involved a potential human being? If somebody can flippantly decide "oops, I guess we're getting an abortion" to begin with, isn't it good that they're terminating the potential human being that they clearly aren't interested in instead of being convinced to care for it because society has made it seem like a shameful and/or heavy decision rather than a medical procedure?
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u/Deerscicle Oct 03 '16
My thing is, that decision has almost jack shit to do with society. Society should be extremely low priority when making that decision. Also, do you have a source on the 1/3 of "potential human beings" are terminated before a woman realizes she's pregnant? That seems incredibly high.
Aside from that though, even if true, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether deciding to have an abortion. Losing a potential life through no control of your own shouldn't have any bearing on if you're deciding to do the same thing "unnaturally". It comes down to that someone is making a decision whether to have, or not have a kid. What's best for that kid is what should be the deciding factor in an abortion, not that it is inconvenient.
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u/snallygaster Oct 03 '16
My thing is, that decision has almost jack shit to do with society. Society should be extremely low priority when making that decision.
The problem with imposing your own values or weight on the decision contributes to the societal influence that might/will influence how somebody makes that decision, and how they will feel about making it.
I guess I didn't rcc; the total rate of miscarriages in recognized pregnancies is ~30% in one study, while one source says up to 70% of conceptions may end in miscarriage, and apparently the American Pediatric Association claims that most conceptions are terminated within the first few weeks. This peer-reviewed source says that up to 50% of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted, often before a woman knows that she's pregnant, and ~15-20% of known pregnancies are miscarried. I read some years ago that a percentage in the 30's was spontaneously aborted, but it seems that the number is up for debate. Either way, the amount of spontaneously aborted 'potential human beings' is very large. Possibly much larger than the rate of pregnancies that are medically aborted.
Aside from that though, even if true, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether deciding to have an abortion.
If the spontaneous of 'potential human lives' is so commonplace (even the low end of known pregnancies that end in miscarriage is large), then what's so wrong about deciding to have a medical abortion? Why should it be treated like some heavy emotional event when high spontaneous early miscarriage rates make it a regular women's experience? The only difference is that people who medically abort choose to do so willingly, whereas women who experience spontaneous abortions may or may not have wanted it to happen. In every case, the "potential human life" is nonviable for any number of reasons, including that the woman doesn't want to or can't carry a child to term and/or care for one. No need to attach an undue stigma to some of the reasons just because they require a medical procedure to address.
Losing a potential life through no control of your own shouldn't have any bearing on if you're deciding to do the same thing "unnaturally".
Why? In all cases the woman is not carrying a pregnancy to term because it's not a viable option; the only difference is that the body is making that decision in spontaneous abortion. At least in the case of medical abortion the woman gets to decide on a higher cognitive level that the pregnancy isn't viable.
What's best for that kid is what should be the deciding factor in an abortion, not that it is inconvenient.
What's best for a child is having parents who want it and are capable of providing for it and giving it a stable home. Sans some form of external pressure or medical issue, every woman who makes the decision to abort does so because they are unable to provide adequate care for the child. If somebody is so unattached to the potential human life that they are able to decide instantly and without consideration to have an abortion, then they are by no means prepared to bring the pregnancy to term and raise the child with what it needs to thrive. Society and individuals turning medical abortion into an inherently heavy decision, attaching a negative emotional weight to it, or otherwise dissuading people from having one has caused many children to be born into environments where they are in no way wanted or given proper care.
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u/not_so_eloquent Oct 03 '16
People bombarding someone who doesn't want an abortion is just as annoying as someone getting an abortion and being told not to. It's an extremely sensitive morally grey area and no one can decide for someone else how they should feel about it, period.
And by God, the amount of people who clearly have never had a kid in that thread is astounding. Kids are not doomsday devices ready to suck all happiness and fun out of your life. If they sucked that bad, no one would have more than one and people wouldn't fight tooth and nail in divorces for time with their children. Any burden they cause is mitigated by the giant extra heart you grow just so you have enough love for them.
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u/Bob_Jonez Oct 02 '16
Oh yay, the old "live with the consequences" argument. Sex should be fun, sex is healthy, if it does happen, and you choose not to have the child then you should have that option of getting rid of it.
If men got pregnant you could be god damn sure there would be drive thru abortion clinics.
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Oct 02 '16
No one said "live with the consequences", they just said "there are consequences". Which is true.
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u/Nomadlads Oct 02 '16
If men got pregnant, then society in general would be totally different and your stupid quips would be even more worthless.
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u/dancing_piglet Oct 02 '16
Ok, I see where, in later comments, that user made some statements that could call her position on the issue into question. My comment was only on her earlier statement, which, to me, was reasonably neutral.
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u/DammitImNotDutch Oct 02 '16
God damn reddit just fucking loves aboritions.. why do people on this site hate kids so fucking mutch?
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u/Deerscicle Oct 02 '16
The people that "hate kids" more often than not don't have the opportunity to make them?
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u/gotbannedtoomuch Oct 03 '16
because kids are terrible
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u/DammitImNotDutch Oct 03 '16 edited Oct 03 '16
because they are not a pc that lets u watch japanese cartoon porn in 1080p?
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u/aispolakalopsia Oct 02 '16
Well, maybe they should. You don't always have to have the fucking baby, and clearly the relationship is not super close. The fact that this is a controversy is sad, tbh. Get the abortion, and move on with your lives.
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Oct 02 '16
The marketing tagline for my abortion center: "You make'em, we scrape'em! No fetus and beat us!"
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Oct 02 '16
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u/ItsDominare Oct 03 '16
"I do not want a child" is a perfectly valid reason to get an abortion. You don't get to tell other people they can't have one because their reason isn't on your little list.
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Oct 03 '16
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u/ItsDominare Oct 03 '16
So 8 months into a pregnancy you should be able to abort?
Don't do that, you know that isn't what I said. Argue against the point I made if you want, don't invent your own because its easier to attack.
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Oct 03 '16
Just because you think it's not right doesn't mean you get to impose your opinion on others.
If you're not religious there are very few logical reasons to be against abortion. What specifically is your issue here?
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Oct 03 '16
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Oct 03 '16
Morals are subjective opinions about the way you think the world should work. It's fine to have them, it's not fine to impose them on others.
The reason to abort is because they do not wish to complete the pregnancy. It's not up to you to tell someone else if their reason is good enough or not.
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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '16
Has anybody seen the awesome TV series Catastrophie? Sounds a bit like that.