An article about poor white Americans get posted in /r/TrueReddit. Some users take issue on the lack of empathy shown towards them, other users take issue on them not agreeing with the article's conclusion that poor whites communities should just die

[u/[deleted]]

The article is this, from The Atlantic. At one point, the article says quotes a National Review article:

Nothing happened to them. There wasn’t some awful disaster. There wasn’t a war or a famine or a plague or a foreign occupation. Even the economic changes of the past few decades do very little to explain the dysfunction and negligence—and the incomprehensible malice—of poor white America. So the gypsum business in Garbutt ain’t what it used to be. There is more to life in the 21st century than wallboard and cheap sentimentality about how the Man closed the factories down.

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs … The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin.

So, it begins. When one user complains about the anti-white working class tone in the Democratic Party:

There is very good reason to criticize the current anti-white working class tone that liberals, SJW's, and democrats pull. This is the exact sort of thing that moves these people towards Donald Trump.

The other side argues:

What tone? You mean the one where Donald Trump is essentially a proxy for white identity politics. Liberals, SJWs, whatever, don't and should not negotiate with racists or racism. If middle class whites feel put upon, then they should probably turn off Fox News, because they are doing better now than they were eight years ago overall. The only thing that might help them more is to vote for better policies that leave them a greater social safety net. The world is/has globalized, the cat is out the bag, people have to assume they won't work the same job, or even the same type of job forever now. We need a robust safety net to catch them, certainly, but fundamentally if they are feeling an economic burdened then maybe they need to retrain, get an education, find a different line of work, actually start saving money, stop buying cheap crap, etc. etc. Isn't personal responsibility the mandate of the Republican Party? Maybe they should stop letting obviously partisan sources, both on the left and the right scare them all the time.

When told the "us vs. them" tone doesn't help, even though he agrees with him, he maintains his position:

It literally is US versus the white identity politics. By US i mean every reasonable human being, Republican, Democrat, Independent. This is why Trump is increasingly going to have Republican defectors.

You don't negotiate with racists. You, generally, pass what legislation you can, and hope they die of old age eventually. Demographic change is the only real change.

Someone takes issue on the part of the article I quoted:

That is a savage beatdown, and it perfectly displays the complete lack of sympathy for poor white people in the USA. Would they dare write such things about poor blacks or poor hispanics? Not if they like having subscribers.

The other side answers that they do it all the time, so they should be allow to do it too, because even if blacks or hispanics may do similar reprehensible things, white people should be held to a higher standard because they don't get the "discrimination excuse":

People do all the time. Constantly. Every "its their culture" argument follows these lines. Plenty of people have called for more personal responsibility. Of course there is a clear difference poor whites have less of an excuse, as they face less discrimination except in terms of class.

Someone calls bullshit on saying communities like this deserve their lot in life being common in major publications, to which they respond:

Such communities don't vote against their interests to the nearly the same extent. They literally voted the people whom took their jobs away into power by proxy. Black communities are similarly critical of Black Republicans for the same reason.

This user even has a problem with one on the other side not even being American. It's as mature an argument as you'd expect:

..because that fits his narrative. Of course, if you look at his comment history, the dude is French, so his opinion on poor whites in America is pretty much useless.

You know, something is called globalisation

Get out of here you French race realist weirdo. Shoo. Don't bother me.

Another expected argument in this kind of thread: "white people = source of all evils".

This isn't a surprise. White males are described in the official history narrative as the people guilty all of the ills of humanity. Once you dehumanise the enemy through propaganda, it is natural to be blind to its suffering.

To which the other side answers:

More like poor white males have attempted to destroy every system that helps them when they are disadvantaged, simply because it might also help some brown people.

Going way back to slavery, when poor whites decided that they'd rather hate on black people and have a little power over them in overseer positions, than side with them against the rich and powerful.

And it's always worked, even now you're such a special snowflake you're butthurt and you'll just keep kissin the 1%s ass.

There were longer threads of discussion, but since they weren't really downvoted, I didn't think it would be greenlit if I posted them

[u/MoralMidgetry]

The article is this, from The Atlantic. At one point, the article says:

You're taking this excerpt out of context. The Atlantic is quoting an article from the National Review, which is a movement conservative magazine.

[u/[deleted] → u/MoralMidgetry]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply it was the Atlantic that wrote that. I'll edit it later to clarify.

EDIT: Fixed.

[u/hyper_ultra → u/MoralMidgetry]

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die.

--u/notshynorarrogant

[u/[deleted]]

This isn't a surprise. White males are described in the official history narrative as the people guilty all of the ills of humanity. Once you dehumanise the enemy through propaganda, it is natural to be blind to its suffering.

well, american history classes (at a basic level) tend to focus on the achievements of white men - their successes and failures. so yeah, most of the villains we're presented with are white guys... but so are the heroes.

that being said, i really dislike the {national review} article (especially the complete lack of empathy for those in the vicious cycle of drug abuse). i mean, "nothing happened to them"?? poverty happened to them. they were born into it. undereducation & underdevelopment & classism happened to them. and yeah, poor white people are trump voters, but rich white people are trump funders. trump is a rich white person. don't scapegoat the working class & ignore the ills of the wealthy.

[u/muieporcilor]

Come on guys, at least skim the article before criticizing it as yet another example of elitist liberal arrogance. In fact, the author of the piece even explicitly makes the point that such dismissive attitudes towards white working class people have directly contributed to the rise of Trump and other like-minded demagogues. It seems like many of you are getting riled up about the first chunk of test quoted by OP. But that wasn't a part of the original article! That quote came from another piece in the National Review, which this article is tearing apart.

[u/[deleted] → u/muieporcilor]

And that's why context is important otherwise we all look like assholes.

[u/Allanon_2020 → u/muieporcilor]

Reading is for nerds

[u/IgnisDomini]

To be honest, I think a lot of this seemingly sudden white-working-class outrage comes from the fact that politicians are too afraid to tell potential voters that their jobs are never coming back.

American manufacturing is dead, and there isn't going to be a miraculous revival. Strengthening the economy hasn't and won't bring it back. But neither will protectionism - companies will simply respond with increased automation or decreased production, and the economy will suffer while creating few, if any, jobs.

The thing is, it would be political suicide to actually come out and say that. The people who work (or worked) in manufacturing generally lack the education to really understand why this is, why their jobs are gone, why they're never coming back. That's not to fault them - you can't expect someone who has never taken an economics class to understand the complex economics underlying all of this. So when a politician comes to them saying "Hey, I can get you your jobs back!" and offers a seemingly plausible but actually impossible way to do so, they believe him - and that means no votes for the one telling them they're never coming back, even if they're right.

These people have been continously misled for their votes for a very long time - too long to snap them out of it comfortably, really. It's tragic in a way - they've been continously promised that they'd have their jobs back soon by politicians who know that bringing manufacturing back is a pipe dream, and are angry that those promises haven't been met. But since they don't understand that they can't be met, they throw their weight behind the next guy offering the same thing, oblivious to the fact that he's conning them just as much as the last guy. And again, I don't blame them for this - it's the fault of politics and politicians who lie and offer false promises to secure votes.

[u/chaoser → u/IgnisDomini]

"In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time. Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism. Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding."

Obama really gets at the heart of the issue

[u/Badicus]

At one point, the article says

No, the article quotes Kevin Williamson writing for The National Review.

[u/[deleted]]

conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs

I mean American manufacturing jobs are going to Asia. That's pretty obvious. Blaming Asians is pretty silly, but I think people are more blaming outsourcing companies and our administration for having a lot of ridiculous and burdensome regulation.

[u/Syreniac → u/[deleted]]

The fundamental problem is that there is no reason to do manufacturing in America when you can get the exact same job done elsewhere at a lower cost. Either you have to have some crazy level of protectionism or people need to accept that, and neither of those options are really great.

Ever since countries like China, India and Brazil developed sufficiently to have substantial industry there's just too many people competing for the same pool of jobs.

[u/SnapshillBot]

You're oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of adding nothing to the discussion.

Snapshots:

1. This Post - 1, 2, 3, 4

2. The article is this, from The Atlan... - 1, 2, 3

3. There is very good reason to critic... - 1, 2, Error, 3

4. What tone? You mean the one where D... - 1, 2, Error, 3

5. When told the "us vs. them" tone do... - 1, 2, Error, 3

6. You don't negotiate with racists. Y... - 1, 2, Error, 3

7. That is a savage beatdown, and it p... - 1, 2, Error, 3

8. People do all the time. Constantly.... - 1, 2, Error, 3

9. Someone calls bullshit on saying co... - 1, 2, Error, 3

10. Such communities don't vote against... - 1, 2, Error, 3

11. ..because that fits his narrative. ... - 1, 2, Error, 3

12. Get out of here you French race rea... - 1, 2, Error, 3

13. This isn't a surprise. White males ... - 1, 2, Error, 3

14. And it's always worked, even now yo... - 1, 2, Error, 3

^{I am a bot. (Info /} ^Contact)

[u/paraguas23]

Is "A People's History of the United States" only about civil rights and the economic struggles of minorities and native americans?

No - more than half of that book is about the economic and class struggles of white people. And the truth is white elites did this to the white lower classes.

The white lower classes let racism be used as a way to put a end to their own class struggle and unite them with white elites. This is a well known issue that's examined by a lot of african american writers.

[u/[deleted]]

Sorry to disturb you, dear religious believer. You can go back to your Church of Social Justice, the US protestantism guilt cult.

WEW LAD

[u/[deleted]]

This is the biggest problem with the snarky upper middle class type of liberalism you see in buzzfeed and publications of that like. A refusal to address this problem, which in turn is a big reason Donald Trump is popular because poor or lower class whites see him as the only candidate that is actually talking to.

[u/Vivaldist → u/[deleted]]

Its really a sad state of affairs when a giant business man can wear the image of a crusader for the poor.

[u/Allanon_2020 → u/Vivaldist]

He ain't a business man he is a business, man.

[u/PhysicsIsMyMistress → u/[deleted]]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not white. I am, however, very lefty on economic issues.

This is one of the things I've been noticing. Progressives today seem to not care about economic issues that affect poot whites because, well, they're white, and accepting white privilige exists gives these progressives permission to stop caring about these economic issues. I have had several acquaintances and friends who redditors would describe as being 'SJWs' who have pretty much stopped caring about economic just, one of whom flatly told me that poor whites wanting to not be poor anymore is equivalent to wanting white supremacy.

There seems to be some kind of concerted effort to marry identity politics with center right free market politics, and I'm seeing a lot of former politicial allies happily ride that train. It's disheartening when these people see poor whites voting for Trump that it solidifies in their minds that they made the right decision to stop caring for the economic well being of these people.

[u/pangelboy]

Nothing happened to them. There wasn’t some awful disaster. There wasn’t a war or a famine or a plague or a foreign occupation. Even the economic changes of the past few decades do very little to explain the dysfunction and negligence—and the incomprehensible malice—of poor white America. So the gypsum business in Garbutt ain’t what it used to be. There is more to life in the 21st century than wallboard and cheap sentimentality about how the Man closed the factories down.

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs … The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin.

This election is batshit bananas. When I first read this article it blew me away. Not because of a lack of empathy, but because they were targeting white people. This same shit has been said about minorities forever. On one hand it's cathartic seeing this vitrol turned on the demographic that's arguably benefited from it the most. On the other hand it's a shitty argument no matter who it is directed towards.

I hope the white establishment/elites/rich continue to admonish the poor white communities voting for the Trumps of the world and pulling a part the Republican Party. Maybe they'll finally see that racism is a tool to enforce class oppression. Poor whites and minorities have much more in common than they think in this country.

[u/Galle_]

I like how both sides are taking positions the article explicitly argues against.

[u/ThinkMinty]

Damn that is some buttery popcorn.

[u/PhysicsIsMyMistress]

Liberals, SJWs, whatever, don't and should not negotiate with racists or racism.

Lolol what, these aren't terrorists they're a part of the electorate and we should absolutely be doing everything we can to counter the message the've been told that foreigners and minorities, not their greedy employers, cause their problems.

[u/Aethelric → u/PhysicsIsMyMistress]

"Countering the message" is a very different activity than "negotiating". The former implies standing firm on your principles, the latter implies compromising them.