r/SubredditDrama • u/jetteloincompte • Jul 15 '16
Rare Slapfight creates ripples in the still waters of /r/Zen
/r/zen/comments/4srda1/what_do_you_do/d5bkx4j24
u/TheLadyEve Jul 15 '16
Freud wasn't a scientist, just like you aren't a psychologist.
There are tons of valid criticisms of Freud, but this is just bull. Freud was a scientist--his primary training was as a biologist and he specialized in neurophysiology. You can be a scientist and still be wrong, and you can be wrong about some things and right about others. Franz Gall was a scientist, too, and he believed in phrenology.
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u/cdstephens Jul 15 '16
Yeah, it's like saying Newton wasn't a scientist because he believed in alchemy.
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u/Aegeus Jul 15 '16
Knew before clicking that it would be Ewk. He's the Dalai Lama of Drama in r/Zen.
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u/KillerPotato_BMW Jul 15 '16
If I shitpost in a forest, and nobody is around to read it, is it really a shitpost?
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Jul 15 '16
Can you write something without also reading it at the same time?
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u/Roflkopt3r Jul 15 '16
I spend 20 minutes writing a long comment, racing from thought to thought, then I look at it and all that's appears in my mind is "What the fuck?".
So, yes.
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u/epoisse_throwaway Jul 15 '16
i really do not like the way most of r/zen communicates.
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u/IAmAN00bie Jul 15 '16
What was that which you just said about me, my friend? I think you ought to know that I have completed my time as a novice-monk, and I've passed through the Gateless Gate, and I've lived for over 300 cycles of rebirth. I am trained in anapanasati and I'm the most senior bhikkhuni in my local sangha. You are nothing to me but just another human being worthy of dignity and respect. I will have compassion upon you with loving-kindness the likes of which has never been seen before in the Cycle of Samsara - you would do well to remember these words. Do you believe that you can say these things and still escape the principle of dependent origination? Perhaps you should reexamine those beliefs, brother. As we speak I am contemplating the importance of accepting your words with detachment and equanimity, so, without malice, I advise you to prepare for the storm, young one. The storm of suffering that afflicts all living creatures in this world. You are trapped in a cycle of death and rebirth, child. Not only am I extensively trained in the Mahayana Tripitaka, but I have access to the entire Pali canon as well, and I will use its teachings to their full extent to help alleviate the suffering within you which causes you to say hurtful things about others. You could reach Nirvana anywhere, any time, and I can help you achieve enlightenment in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with the study of Koan. If only you could understand what evil karma these words of yours would sow, perhaps you would have had the wisdom to keep silent. Nevertheless, this was beyond what you have been prepared for, and so I promise that I will do my best to ease the suffering that you have brought upon yourself. I will teach you the path of the Bodhisattva and you will revel in it. Your suffering may yet reach its end, child.
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Jul 15 '16
What the fuck did you fucking say about me,you crypto-Buddhist maya-vadin?I'll have you know that I am the best disciple of the abbots of the Eight Monasteries of Madhva,and I've been involved in numerous debates with Sankara's followers,and have 1008 confirmed victories.I'm trained in fruitful debate(samvada) and I'm the most senior swami of all the monasteries of Udipi. You are nothing but another follower of the doctrine of illusion to me.I will expose your false pretenses with an exactitude that has never been seen herewith,mark my words.Do you think you can still hold these views and still not incur Sri Vayu's wrath?That same Vayu,who in his second incarnation destroyed Lanka and in his third incarnation,destroyed Sankara?Think again,deluded fool.As we are discussing,I am talking with my disciples so you'd better be prepared for a sound bashing,you prachhanna-Bauddha.That storm that wipes out your pretensions to follow the Vedas,you tamo-yogin.Not only am I extensively trained in all the Vedangas and the proper understanding of the Prasthana-trayi,but I have full access to all the Mahayana Buddhist texts as well,and I can use them to expose your fakery.You could have been at least a mukti-yogya,any time,in over 108 ways,and that is just with the study of the Vishnu-tattva-nirnaya.If only you could understand what horrible karma these words of yours would sow, perhaps you would have had the wisdom to keep silent.But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price.I'll vanquish you in debate and you'll drown in Buddhism.You're eternally damned, son.
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u/TheIronMark Jul 15 '16
I'm subscribed to r/zen, but only for the drama. For a bunch of self-proclaimed zen practitioners, they get worked up over incredibly stupid shit.
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u/ewk Jul 15 '16
We don't have any self proclaimed Zen practitioners. We have some religious trolls and proselytizing trolls who claim to practice something, and we have some Zen instruction that most people are uncomfortable talking about... but none of that is "Zen practice".
A famous Master said practice is "wearing cloths and eating" food. So on that basis we probably nail it over in r/Zen. That's just a guess though. People who aren't comfortable talking about what some old book says are probably nudie-phobic.
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u/poffin Jul 15 '16
Do you meditate? practice Zazen? if not, do you have some sort of practice or repetitious activity? if not, do you just talk and bullshit intellectually? Do you do absolutely nothing and might as well be on a cooking subreddit?
It sounds like you don't study Zen...
.... Hmmm, well I only asked a question(s) and made no statements, so I'm not sure where this is coming from. Did you want to answer one of any of my questions?
What was your question? Was it "why don't Zen Masters teach Zazen prayer-meditation?" Or was it, "Why is Zen secular when Japanese Dogen Buddhism is so faith-based?" Or was it, "Where can I go to start studying Zen?"
This guy talks like a crazy person. Pretty sure he's just r/iamverysmart, but he just comes off as not connected to reality.
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u/ewk Jul 15 '16
There are lots of misconceptions about Zen, mostly because of Japanese Buddhists from a cult started by the L. Ron Hubbard of Japan, a guy named Dogen,. Japanese Buddhism isn't Zen. But Japanese Buddhism calls itself Zen, and uses the fame of the name to proselytize. Japanese Buddhists are famous for sitting quietly, talking about nature and harmony, and generally seeming like they understand the complexities of life while at the same time appearing to be smoking something.
In contrast, for example, Zen Masters are famous for:
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Zen Master intolerance... one was called "he who questions old monks to death" because that actually happened.
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Zen Master violence - one furiously chopped up a live cat in front of people for no reason anybody could explain.
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Zen Master disdain - the list of things Zen Masters reject disdainfully includes wisdom, harmony, teaching, fairness, truth, peace, rules, respect, anything good, any notion of "Buddhism", and religions in general.
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Zen Master comedy - Zen Masters are known for their vicious senses of humor. For example, offering to teach via public urination, telling people that Buddha is toilet paper, mocking people who practice sitting mediation (they do that a lot), mocking their ancestors/students/petitioners/the elderly, making up ridiculous fables and then using their authority to stare down anyone who doesn't believe them.
That's for starters.
So the "placid waters" thing is really just illiteracy on your part. You don't get a pass just because church people encourage it.
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u/empty_place Jul 15 '16
That was a nice fun read. I never thought it was possible to discuss for so long about nothing.