r/SubredditDrama • u/Dear_Occupant Old SRD mods never die, they just smell that way • Mar 18 '16
Social Justice Drama When Ellen came out of her shell, were the 90s a living Hell? Was it really a flap? A generation gap? Find out in /r/TIL
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Mar 18 '16
everyone already knew she was gay. It's actually insulting it took her so long to do it.
That time when Ellen Degeneras snubbed America with poorly timed lesbianism.
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u/chemistry35 Mar 18 '16
To a queer person—especially a young one—there's an incredible loneliness to feeling essentially invisible.
LOL, are you serious? The media talks about homosexuality all the fucking time. It's a hot button political issue.
Yeah dawg whenever I feel down about bein gay I just turn on the TV, hear a few people debate whether I deserve civil rights and then man am I good to go for the day
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u/mtschatten Mar 18 '16
The think on the children approach about showing homosexual couples displaying affection is the worst.
Those people don't realize there are homosexual children and teenagers who are marginalized and not represented properly.
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u/quintus_aurelianus Mar 18 '16
Those people don't realize there are homosexual children and teenagers
Those people don't believe there are homosexual children and teenagers because only adults can choose to be sexual deviants.
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Mar 18 '16
This is legit depressing because when I was about thirteen my friend's mother refused to let me go over to her house anymore, basically for having short hair and wearing boys' hoodies and being a little baby lesbian. She said I was a "bad influence," but being a straight-A student and a pretty nice kid, her inference was pretty fucking clear.
Absent a dear friend, I definitely watched 50% more TV. I'd go home and watch Golden Girls reruns and when my parents asked why I didn't go hang out with my friend I said she was busy. And now I'm obsessed with TV and I watch everything! wow that is actually profoundly revelatory oh man
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Mar 18 '16
Im gay and MTVs 1 girl 5 gays used to play non stop. It made me feel so much better about it since there was jut a bunch of people talking about it. It wasnt all shits and giggles either, they used to get into some serious topics like coming out. It made me feel really normal. I think this might have been a Canadian show though. Plus there is always the internet.
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u/Blacksheep2134 Mar 18 '16 edited Mar 18 '16
Of course your family had a trans kid in it! Really helped tie your story together nicely.
I have literally no idea why this is supposed to be unbelievable. Someone who is homosexual had bigoted parents and a trans niece. Is that seriously where you draw the line of credulity?
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u/PapaJacky Mar 18 '16
It's a pretty heteronormative POV. They assume that heterosexuality is the normal (this is an issue because it then presumes that non-heterosexuality is abnormal) and thus, other orientations or genders aren't. So anytime that even a single person on the LGBT spectrum presents themselves, it is a surprise or a shock, and so naturally, more persons of that persuasion in a setting not perceived to be regular for it would make it less and less believable to them. This POV is usually perpetuated by both the invisibility and ignorance of LGBT persons in life and in media.
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u/tydestra Mar 18 '16
Yeah, being gay in the 90s was not easy, for fuck's sake both Brandon Teena (born Teena Renae Brandon) and Matthew Sheppard were killed because they were gay, and in the case of Teena, trans.
I was lucky that my mom was cool with me being Bi--I came out when I was 15 in 1997--but a lot of my friends weren't. Beaten, kicked out, pulled out of school and shipped to PR, DR and L. America. The Hispanic cure of choice it seems, as if the change in scenery would cure them of their gayness. In the decade before MySpace and the ease of connectivity, friends I knew from 9th/10th grade--gone forever.
Places like the Hetrick-Martin Institute and the Ali Forney center didn't operate to fill a void. Schools like the Harvey Milk High School didn't open just because gay teens want their own special space. They opened and still operate because being a gay youth (even in super liberal places like NYC where I grew up and these places are located) has been, and continues to be a terrible phase in life if they are surrounded by bigoted adults. Gay adults didn't have it better, facing losing their job, something still on the law books in a lot of states, etc.
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Mar 19 '16
That one dude saying that people in the south didn't actually care if people were gay.
When I lived down south my classmates made my life hell because they THOUGHT I was a lesbian. Not because I was a lesbian, because they thought I was a lesbian. I'm just lucky I'm a chick; if I was a dude, I'm 99% certain they would have beat the shit out of me.
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u/Book_1love Mar 18 '16 edited Mar 18 '16
I was 11 in 1997. I wasn't allowed to watch the coming out episode of Ellen because it had a parental advisory. To be fair to my mum, she didn't allow me to watch one episode of Married with Children for the same reason. I'm pretty sure the one I wasn't allowed to watch was "The Camping Episode" where Peggy, Kelly and Marcie all get their periods at the same time and attract bears to the cabin (it was a controversial episode at the time - because periods).
But then a year or two later we would all sit down to watch Will and Grace? My mum is funny and the 90's were weird.
EDIT: I was trying to think of other gay characters on TV in the late 90's and just did some googling: The episode of the Simpsons where John Waters plays an openly gay character aired in February 1997, the same month Ellen came out in real life on Oprah. The episode of Ellen's show where she came out aired in April 1997. I don't remember the Simpsons episode being very controversial at the time, although it might have been because John Waters had been out for years and years at that point.
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u/travio Mar 18 '16
Before Ellen came out the lesbian kiss episode had become a bit of a sweeps month cliche. It had just enough controversy for it to be a ratings win. Most of these featured a main character getting kissed by a one time guest star.
As for other gay characters in the 90s. Martin Mull's character on Roseanne was gay. I also remember a gay guest character on Wings, but I think that was only for an episode or two.
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u/Mr_Tulip Mar 18 '16
Peggy, Kelly and Marcie all get their periods at the same time and attract bears to the cabin
Wait, was that actually a thing that happened? Suddenly the "their periods attract bears" line from Anchorman makes sense.
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Mar 18 '16
I remember when Ellen accidentally said "I'm gay" right into the airport mic. That was funny shit.
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Mar 19 '16
I don't remember the Simpsons episode being very controversial at the time, although it might have been because John Waters had been out for years and years at that point.
the controversy about Ellen had more to do with the main character of a show being gay. Before that, gay characters were usually secondary characters.
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Mar 18 '16
I recently stumbled onto Ellen's original show on over the air tv, which is a sitcom. It was the episode where she sees her therapist pee in a parking lot and tries to act normal around her. It's interesting how in hindsight, that kind of parallels situations that come up like a friend learning you're gay and trying to act normal around you.
tfw pissing in public is the same as being gay
tfw "acting normal"
:|
It's interesting because while we have broken ground in some very meaningful ways (legal recognition and protections) I think there is still a pretty strong undercurrent of homophobia in a lot of society. It's not like it's hard to see; I've had conversations with people who would swear until they're blue in the face that they're progressive because they're okay with gay marriage, but gay adoption is a bridge too far. (I just don't think... You know, that's okay for a kid to deal with. It's like, that's going to make their lives super hard, you know?) Or the fucking disgusting smirk that flashes across so many men's faces: "I mean, I don't really get gay men and I think they're gross, but lesbians..." Okay, cool, I'm glad that your opinion on social rights is informed entirely by your right hand. Ugh.
In other words, being gay is cool insomuch as straight folk can come to parades and weddings, and dudes can jerk it while feeling progressive. Barf city.
Interestingly I think there is a move towards "queer is cool" among under 20s, but it's a pretty narrow spectrum. I've met a lot of young female people who identify as "pansexual and non-binary" and go by "they" in the Pride Centre, but dress like girls, do their hair like girls, go by "she" in the wider world, present conventionally femininely basically all the time, and only date boys or men. I'm happy to respect that-- whatever, your personal exploration costs me nothing-- but that's clearly a different experience than being a masculine-presenting, gender-non-conforming, always homosexual gay woman.
There is a widening chasm, I think, between being "gay" (which is still pretty much what it always was) and being "queer" (which seems more like a social movement than an inherent, biologically-driven sexuality.) I don't know how that will develop over time but I am curious to see if these exploratory self-identities can last.
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Mar 18 '16
Okay, cool, I'm glad that your opinion on social rights is informed entirely by your right hand. Ugh.
That's really being unfair to a lot of people. Some people use their left hand, other's a sex toy, and a few hump pillows. I know that you don't mean to be a bigot, but in the future please think that your experiences aren't the be-all of the world.
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u/RayCharlesSunglasses Mar 18 '16 edited Mar 18 '16
which seems more like a social movement than an inherent, biologically-driven sexuality.
I know you didn't do this, but one of the attitudes that I wish would disappear is the notion that we need to appeal to biology for homosexuality to be morally okay. The notion that a harmless variation in sexuality requires any such excuse in the first place is already to concede too much to the petty bigotries of idiots.
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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '16
Welp