r/SubredditDrama • u/awrf • Apr 21 '14
Consent drama in /r/gameofthrones. SPOILERS INSIDE DO NOT ENTER OTHERWISE. You have been warned.
/r/gameofthrones/comments/23jx2l/season_4_spoilers_premiere_discussion_403_breaker/cgxr1k0?context=115
u/nancy_ballosky Apr 21 '14
its crazy how this one scene has caused so much controversy. On the list of horrible things to happen in the books, this doesnt even crack the top 10.
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u/derivedabsurdity7 Apr 21 '14
It was a) a dramatic change from the books which many people feel is unjustified and unnecessary, and b) it was performed by someone we're generally supposed to like.
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u/Easiness11 Apr 21 '14
The guy who kicked the child out of the window after he was seen doinking his sister?
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u/seedypete Apr 21 '14
Jaime's a sociopath but he's a generally good-natured sociopath. He wouldn't have just walked up and thrown the kid out a window for shits and giggles, but clearly in Jaime's head (especially at that point in the books, long before his whole redemption arc) concern for Cersei trumps concern for other people.
If Bran had caught him doing literally any other illegal or immoral thing he probably still would've saved him and just laughed off the inevitable trial, it was just bad luck that he happened along for the one secret Jaime cared enough to keep. Not even for his own sake, he clearly doesn't care if people know about him and Cersei, but Cersei cares so it's defenestration time.
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u/nancy_ballosky Apr 21 '14
Yea exactly. Idk if we are generally supposed to like anybody. Every character is flawed in some way or another. And forcing yourself on a woman you have previously loved, during a time period where rape doesn't have the same weight as it does now, isn't that huge of a flaw for me.
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u/Outlulz Apr 21 '14
On the flip side of that incident, had Bran told Ned or Robert what he saw Robert would likely have immediately killed Cersei, Jaime, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen, and Tyrion and maybe even declared war against Casterly Rock because he's such a hothead.
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u/Outlulz Apr 21 '14
Jaime is one of my favorite characters book 3 and on. I haven't watched this week's episode yet but I would be disappointed if they changed his character from how he is in the books.
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Apr 22 '14
You see, this is what happens when you choose the king slaying child murdering sister fucking rapist, but he is our king slaying child murdering sister fucking rapist and we love him all the same
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Apr 22 '14
My favourite thing about GoT drama is how the persistent re-writing of violence, particularly violence against women, into the show when it wasn't in the books is "not that big of a deal," because... Uh... Bad things happen in this universe, guys! It's not like showrunners make consistent, deliberate decisions about the manner in which content is presented to a viewing audience because it is an adaptation, oh no. Westeros is a totally independent universe where things just happen. It's like watching a documentary.
I mean, it's been escalating for a while: Dany and Khal Drogo's initial sexual encounter wasn't a rape in the books, but it was on the show. Talisa was not stabbed in her pregnant belly in the books for various reasons, but on the show it was a centrepiece of the Red Wedding. All that dreadful Theon torture, which went on for a gratuitously long time. Ros, that television amalgamation getting shot full of endless arrows to meet her bitter end... That moment more than any other in the series made me feel so incredibly sick. Why was that in there? To show Geoffrey is the worst? Please, like we didn't already know that.
I remember getting in a huge fight on some AV Club review when that episode aired, because so many people were tirelessly, tirelessly, tirelessly insisting that every violent act was as necessary as can be. We all know that this world isn't sunshine and rainbows... But how fucking brutal and pitch black can you make a world before acknowledging that you're just fetishizing brutality for brutality's sake? How much rape and mutilation and putrefaction do you really need to prove your point about the brutality of the canon and how much is fanservice for sickos? There's no one line, but I honestly think the show has crossed it more than a couple of times. It's difficult to be invested in the story when you find yourself wondering if one of the showrunners has a collection of snuff videos under his bed. (Minor exaggeration, but only minor. You know what I mean.)
As for the specific drama du jour: Cersei wasn't raped by Jamie in the canon, but in the show-- well, if you don't think that's rape I'm utterly and completely terrified of what you think rape is.
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u/Apollos_Anus Apr 22 '14
To be honest, I didn't think anybody thought of Game of Thrones' brutality as a necessary evil. It's obviously in there for shock value in my eyes. I don't think it is overly done or anything. I think it has always been part of the shows schtick.
Another show that does this is The Walking Dead. Even if it is a relatively slow episode they will put in some kind of grotesque zombie death. It doesn't bother me outside of being bad writing, but it is still noticeable.
I did actually think the Joffrey thing added some depth, just because he deviated from the norm of the world of basically every guy sleeping with prostitutes and just murdered them instead. He was already terrible, but that made him twisted on a much more "pure evil" kind of level.
That said, tons of the shows brutality is just in there for "brutal kill" moments. It might just not be your cup of tea.
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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '14
Good lord. Even in fictional rapes, there are still assholes pulling out the "she totally wanted it, bro!" defense.
That change from the books was so disappointing, though... Sigh.