[Weekly Discussion] Let's talk about:Uttar Pradesh

[u/sree_1983]

State	Uttar Pradesh
Website	http://upgov.nic.in/
Population	199,581,477
Chief Minister	Akhilesh Yadav Samajwadi Party
Capital	Lucknow
Offical Language	Hindi,Urdu
GDP in crores	Rs 676,083
Sex ratio	912

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Original Thead which started this chains of discussion

^{Thanks to fuck_cricket, that_70s_show_fan and tripshed}

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Uttarakhand discussion will happen next week, going according to alphabetic order in wikipedia

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[u/qtya]

I have been in up for a month. 3 weeks in kanpur and a week in lucknow.

When in Lucknow, Went to see the Elephant park mayawati has built over there. it's massive. It's very very big. And it's made of sandstone or something. There's no grass nor trees for about a square mile. Looks good but is actually very shitty. So there's a walkway to enter the park and a river flows parallel to it. While walking towards its entrance, a bike came and threw a severed human hand on the footpath. Police came a little later. Asked around for people who saw this happen. No one came forward. He called for some guards, they picked up that hand and threw it into a river. Everyone went back home.

I lived with a family in Kanpur. The very first day, when I was just entering their home, they asked what's my caste. I said I belong to general category. Not satisfied, they asked for my whole family history and then they let me enter.

So the moral of the story is people in up are fucked up and they don't care.

Edit the amily that I lived with Were rich. And I guess educated.

[u/ranjan_zehereela]

Every time I go to any part of Uttar Pradesh, I feel like shit. Eastern UP looks like a post apocalyptic world that Mizapur, Jaunpur, Banaras area. Half of Varanasi smells like piss. People are in general nice in that half of UP, (not even talking about the assholes from Western UP) but most of them think they are the biggest jugadu, politicians in their locality. There is so much of power theft. I doubt if any normal citizen in Uttar Pradesh pays electricity bill. So many rivers in all of the UP, but still farmers in most parts of UP are so poor. There is casteism, I look at the Muslim localities and feel uneasy going to those localities. So much of power shedding, even my reticent father shouted in rage - "I don't feel like staying here".

And when I ask about all this to my equally asshole cousins and their father about all this mess in UP. They laugh it off - "Are yehi to maza hai uttar Pradesh ka" What the bhainchod, I never try to argue them because Jija Foofa need to be given respect. My aunt (Bua ji) and her family members went to attend her daughter's wedding reception (organized by the groom's family) in Police protection because of some curfew imposed due to some communal tension and those people are proud of that. And ohh, 10-12 Years back, Foolan Devi was to visit some of my relatives place. Some uncle was in politics and the women of the family were so ecstatic jaise Angelina Jolie aa rehi thi unke ghar

tl dr: UP is fucked and UP people do not mind it

[u/YouKiddin → u/ranjan_zehereela]

Usually these state threads focus on the positives of each state and what we can appreciate from them. Your comment is exactly what I expected when I saw "Uttar Pradesh". When I traveled by bus from Jaipur to Agra in 2005, that's when I saw poverty in India like never before. And with a population of 199,581,477 -- this is why politicians spend so much of their time in UP. Not because they want to change UP for the better, the population is merely used at voting guinea pigs. It's just sad.

[u/brownwog2]

OK. UPite checking in.

Firstly ranajanbhais zehreelay comments are spot on. However, lets rewind a few centuries.

Agra, the capital of the Mughal Empire, was in UP. I am not an historian but my guess is that it would have entailed some benefits in the form of greater law and order and higher living standards.

And then the Brits arrived. They did so precisely at the time the Mughal empire was on its last knees and the Marathas were ravishing the countryside. They also probably promised good pay and better working conditions and so a lot of people from UP and Bihar joined their army, so much so that they were called Pandies (a corruption of Pandey): source Naipauls India trilogy.

But then they did something stupid leading to the revolt of these Pandies. Ever wondered where the 1857 mutiny happened? Lucknow, Gwalior, Jhansi, Agra, Kanpur, Meerut, Allahabad. OK, Gwalior is in MP, but it is reasonably close to UP.

The upshot of this was that the British stopped hiring UPites and Biharis and started hiring the Sikhs as the Sikhs had supported them. They also began systematic neglect: not many schools or hospitals were built in the area.

And then comes Mr. Gandhi asking the Indians not to co-operate with the British. So the UPites (and Biharis) withdrew their kids from the government schools which taught English and started sending them to their own schools which taught in Hindi. Since the UPites did not know English they couldn't get government (or other) jobs. This led to their economic deprivation.

You'd think the situation would change after independence. But guess what? It didn't. English was still required for jobs in independent India. And now there weren't even enough people to teach it in UP.

When education (and people were still studying and getting degrees in various subjects, including Physics and Chemistry without learning English) did not lead to jobs they became apathetic to education.

The situation has only now started changing, that too after the economic reforms: people are learning English with a vengeance; they are studying non-traditional subjects like Commerce, Accounting, Computer Science, Engineering etc.

And I am sure that you would now be seeing a lot of UPites in the white collar professions. Ask your parents: they will tell you that in their generation there were hardly any UPites in those fields.

So the situation is changing. But these changes take time. Give it 25 to 30 years and UP will not only catch up but will surpass most states.

The reason for my faith in UP is the sheer cussedness and rebellion in our blood. This has been proven time and again, starting with Gautam Buddha's first address at Sarnath (in UP) and progressing to the one in 1857. The latest that I had heard of was a school for training Hindu priests, started by a Brahmin, but open to all castes.

[u/prafullchalak]

As a Marathi guy I will be cautious to comment on this, but I will tell the things which I came across while visiting UP. I have been to Lucknow, Kanpur, Varanasi, Allahabad, Sultanpur, Meerut, Saharanpur and Jhansi. Also I studied at IIT Roorkee for 2 years. Other comments are saying that western UP is better than Eastern. In case of money and facility it is right. But if u compare regarding social behavior then people through out the UP are same. Some of my experiences with UP are

1. Once I visited Varanasi with few friends during holi festival. There I had seen that how badly local people are treating foreigners and outside tourists. Local goons were harassing one british lady and police were standing just 20 feet away from that. And they were also enjoying that. When I asked them to stop, then they said "Tumhe kya karna hai tum apna kaam dekho na" And somehow we escaped with that british lady and her boyfriend from there. The goons were following our car for some distance on their bikes. That lady and her boyfriend were so much scared that they were cursing themselves for visiting India. That time I realized Atithi Devo Bhava is only in books, not in our minds.

2. Second time I visited Kanpur. Outside IIT Kanpur there was nothing but crowd of people and slums everywhere. Temple or mosque are at every corner of street. Even sometime in the middle of road. Cows and buffalo shelters were on the road. At Kanpur station there was no place to stand on platform. So much rush and dirt. Trains going toward Maharashtra and Gujarat were filled with poor people and goons.

3. Meerut is the worst place I have ever visited in UP. It is the city with highest crime rate.

I m not saying that only UP is bad, bad people are everywhere. But UP people don't want to change. They are arrogant. Their lack of education and lack of acceptance towards good things made them bad. Caste ism is filled in society so deep that it can not be removed now. When I was at IIT Roorkee, our lab assistance was asking caste of every student in our batch. When I told them that I m from Maratha caste, I m kshatriya. Then their view suddenly changed and they started treating me well. And my other friends who were from South India, they were treated like "ACHHUT". Lab staff was making fun of their color and language.

UP gave India 8 Prime Ministers, many famous politicians are from UP. But still state is in very bad shape. It is not because huge population or bad politics, it only because mentality of people.

[u/that_70_show_fan]

Who and what is stopping UP from splitting into smaller states? Among all the states, I see UP region to likely improve much better than what it is today if the states are much smaller.

[u/[deleted]]

How did SP and BSP manage to wrest power from national heavyweights like the Congress and the BJP?

[u/[deleted]]

Ignorant questions below, have never visited there.

Ok what are the major industries in UP?

Are farmers poor compared to rest of india?

Why does bollywood show only omkara movie type guys? Are there no middle class guys?

And what is stoping the state from being split to harit pradesh and other parts?

How bad is the law and order situation? Do politicians try to retain status quo for their benefit?

How bad are the caste divisions?

[u/MeManoos]

I may be horribly wrong here but have always felt that Hindus in UP-Bihar are more aggressive than Hindus in South-West India,maybe because of centuries of oppressive rule of Mughals ??? I mean we Hindus are not supposed to be that aggressive.

How did Mughal rule impact the local Hindu culture of UP-Bihar ?

[u/3apo]

Since no one spoke of the culture of UP, so I will touch upon that.

Years ago, before the fucked up politics led to deep schisms in the society, UP used to have what used to be called 'Tehzeeb'. Be it muslims/hindus/yadavs/thakurs people used to respect each other. People were known for their propriety and grace to a fault. I am talking of the stuff of Pakheeja. I am talking of well attended Kavi sammelans and sher-shayari, nautankis etc. Even though I am a displaced citizen of UP, I still believe that the culture of the land survives in parts- even if greatly repressed.

The idea of the modern indian republic was ingrained in UP. Lucknow is where the idea of pakistan originated and deliberated for its merit - and unfortunately/fortunately depending on your point of view - accepted. I dont think this was circumstantial, it speaks a lot of the maturity of rational political thought of those times.

Ofcourse this was years ago, I do not forsee any social revolution that can bring UP back to its erstwhile glory. IMO, the decades of 80s/90s almost wiped out all that was worth fighting for :(

I am fortunate to have spent my time there and soaked in the tehzeeb, and fortunate to have escaped before the worst.