r/SubredditDrama • u/abittooshort • Oct 22 '13
Low-Hanging Fruit Buttery goodness in /r/guns. Redditor mentions a seller at a gun show who lies through his teeth about a recalled product. Seller shows up, is a dick to people and tells everyone "You want me to be honest and fair, it's going to cost you". The juiciness is flowing...
/r/guns/comments/1ovpc9/question_about_legality_etiquette_for_an/ccw4n1484
u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
That guy is pretty much a drama creator. He posts weekly recounts of his interactions with customers which basically boil down to someone having the audacity to ask questions, which results in him flipping out on them and charging extra for being a hassle. He's pretty much the stereotypical gunshop owner who no one likes. I think most people in the sub either dislike him, or enjoy the drama he posts, but everyone seems to accept that he's a jerk.
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u/Ruks Oct 22 '13
Yeah...
we should revisit the fact that women are able to vote.
It's like he's from a sitcom.
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u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
During the gun crazes he raises a lot of good points about shops being able to charge what they want, and people can deal with it. That's true. Gun owners always hate capitalism when it doesn't benefit them. He also does post a lot of actual douchebag customers that anyone in retail would be able to relate to.
The other 90% of his posts come off as trolls, but time and time again, first hand accounts seem to prove that he's just an asshole.
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u/Jrex13 Oct 22 '13
He also does post a lot of actual douchebag customers that anyone in retail would be able to relate to.
Idk man, based on my one thread knowledge of him I'd say this probably explains why he would have stories about bad customers.
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Oct 22 '13
Lots of his stuff is absolutely hilarious but then he does shit like this.
I wouldnt be surprised if he didn't just say that it was him as a joke.
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u/strolls Oct 22 '13
we should revisit the fact that women are able to vote.
Sounds like he's been blowing Ann Coulter and some of it stuck.
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u/jesuz Oct 22 '13
This isn't an uncommon idea among conservatives. If you took away the female vote, Republicans run away with the elections..
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u/dethb0y Oct 22 '13
Gun shops seem to draw in assholes as proprietors, for some reason. I'm not sure why.
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u/ostentatiousox Oct 22 '13
Comic book shops, board game shops, mom and pop video game shops, gun shops, etc. Pretty much any time somebody opens a business concerning a hobby of theirs, they usually aren't the most sociable and pleasant of people. I know there are certainly more than a few who are, but time and time again there just seems to be people in charge of these businesses that really shouldn't run a business.
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u/dethb0y Oct 22 '13
Could well be; it might be the case that they opened their own business because they couldn't get along with other people in the first place.
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u/ok_but Oct 22 '13
Except headshops. Those dudes are pretty chill, I've found.
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u/kirkum2020 Oct 22 '13
And Games Workshops(not sure if you have that chain in the US, it's a Warhammer franchise). I don't play it but all the proprietors I've met have been really nice guys.
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Oct 22 '13
Guns in general draw in enormous amounts of assholes who really have no business owning projectile weapons.
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u/dethb0y Oct 22 '13
I've found cars and video games both draw in more pricks, per capita (at least, that i've seen).
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u/Chairboy Oct 22 '13
Is he real or a construct?
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u/CaptainDickbag Oct 22 '13
He's real. He's a dick. Some idiots encouraged this behavior, so now he's a regular extra dick. He's the only person who regularly gets a "fuck you" every time he posts.
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u/Kopfindensand Oct 22 '13
FUCK YOU!
Then an upvote.
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Oct 23 '13
New here, but what is a novelty account or a "construct"? Is that like someone with multiple identities? A bot? Sorry to ask in the wrong place if it's not appropriate.
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u/Erra0 Oct 22 '13
Why don't they ban him?
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u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
He doesn't really break the rules at all, and the r/guns community enjoys "rustling each others jimmies". He contributes some good content in addition to his jimmy rustling. He's kinda a mascot or something. If nothing else, he's entertaining.
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u/NarstyHobbitses Oct 22 '13
I hope he's not a mascot for the sub, that just seems depressing and embarrassing to everyone else.
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Oct 23 '13
I hope he's not a mascot forthe sub~~, that just~~ seems depressing and embarrassing to everyoneelse.FTFY
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Oct 22 '13
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u/freedomweasel Oct 23 '13
He does post correspondence with the ATF to clarify rules and stuff, and he used to post some of the more interesting firearms he managed to get a hold of. I occasionally see him post in question threads with a very blunt version of what is usually the correct answer.
All in all though, I think he's moved more toward the trolling side of things.
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u/Shillmuybienpagados Oct 22 '13
So this is this week's r/guns display of a person who has a whole stockpile of firearms but who acts like he'd be a bit of a liability if you gave him a pair of reasonably sharp scissors.
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u/0xnull Oct 22 '13
I browse that sub on occasion, and FC is a pretty constant character. I was thinking the link would probably be about him before I opened it.
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u/Kopfindensand Oct 22 '13
I'm really questioning if it's actually FC he met there. He tends to go out of his way to avoid most questions about who he is where or where he works(despite advertising on r/gunsforsale). I find it odd that he'd just flat out say "This is me".
Now him defending assholish behavior by a FFL? Definitely something he'd do.
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u/aur0ra145 Oct 22 '13
Yeah, it seems like FC might be trolling for the lulz and what not in the post though.
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u/ostentatiousox Oct 22 '13
I don't know, a while back there was another thread where FC hadn't gotten around to even confirming a transfer for something like a week and a half because "he was just too busy with other stuff going on" to shoot the guy an email. So he was asking for advice whether or not to not honor the transfer and keep some of the guy's money or to just go ahead and complete the transfer. I can't really remember the entire story and I may have fudged some of the details, but the entire time FC just came across as a lazy, incompetent asshole and there was a lot of hate for him in that thread.
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u/strolls Oct 22 '13 edited Oct 23 '13
He sells guns mail order doesn't he?
I think he sells via other licensed dealers when crossing state lines.
There must be a from address on these shipments.
Someone has to know who he is.He can't really hope or expect to maintain proper anonymity.EDIT: this is not a request for his address, and is not in violation of Reddit's rules. I'm merely remarking how the guy can't really be that elusive if he's selling guns mail-order.
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u/Vroome Oct 22 '13
I love the "collectors" who have 50 rifles of the same make and model plus 50,000 rounds of ammo. In every European country they would be in prison, as they should be. That is an arsenal.
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Oct 22 '13
I also support imprisoning people for not hurting anyone.
I also support criminalizing owning a motor vehicle while. intoxicated. After all, you could drive it drunk and hurt someone.
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u/HerpthouaDerp Oct 22 '13
I also support drama in the thread.
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Oct 22 '13
I support making car parts for the American working man, because that's who I am, and that's who I care about.
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Oct 22 '13
I'm sorry, but there's a couple things I really hate.
People advocating imprisonment for people who live their lives differently, yet hurt no one.
Europeans telling America why everything they do is wrong.
They often go together.
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Oct 22 '13
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u/angryhaiku Oct 22 '13
Well, if you have 50 rifles, you also probably have the cash for a cloning laboratory in your basement.
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u/CyberSoldier8 Oct 22 '13
FC is kind of famous around r/guns for being a giant asshole. He is extremely knowledgeable about firearms, I'll give him that, but he is still an asshole. He doesn't sell firearms to "normal" people, he sells to the kind of people that don't care if they get raped on prices. Whenever I see his name, I picture the guy from Red Jacket Firearms from Discovery channel, who sells $20,000 machine guns to people for them to strap to the sides of their helicopters.
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Oct 22 '13
FC is probably one of the top 5 reasons that I, as a dedicated firearms enthusiast, hates r/guns.
The man is the epitome of everything that's wrong with the firearm culture. He's a dirt-bag jerk who acts like since he owns a gun store that he's automatically right in virtually any argument.
I could write paragraphs about him but I don't think I need to, this buttery drama-llama pretty much sums it up.
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u/dethb0y Oct 22 '13
I love guns, hate popular gun culture.
I even avoid the comments areas on the few gun blogs i read.
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u/Liquid_Senjutsu Oct 22 '13
I avoid comment areas entirely unless I'm on Reddit. As sad as it might sound, Reddit is the only place I can find intelligent commentary. Everything else is monkeys.
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u/dethb0y Oct 22 '13
some places aren't horrible, but by and large, indeed: comment sections are cesspits.
It almost makes me think that in a few years, they'll be largely a thing of the past, and it'll be all moved to stuff like facebook, reddit, etc.
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u/SarcasticOptimist Oct 22 '13
Same here. I like to exercise my hand-eye coordination and have fun on the range. Not get mixed up with political rants and meatheads.
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u/IgnatiousReilly Oct 22 '13
r/guns is a perfect online simulacrum of the worst sort of gun store/range.
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u/smoking_gun Oct 23 '13
I only really go there for the pictures.
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u/ok_but Oct 23 '13
Great pictures. Also, decent technique discussion, like CoyoteTan's combat shotgun thread a couple days ago. Good stuff.
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u/Etteluor Oct 22 '13
Out of curiosity what are your other reasons? FC and Sit-Rep are the only total dickheads I've noticed so far.
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Oct 22 '13
I've been on Gunnit for a long time and don't even know who sit-rep is. Pretty much all of the moderators are universally considered cocks
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u/Kopfindensand Oct 22 '13
You just miss runnybear. Admit it.
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u/NotAlanTudyk Oct 22 '13
RB23 was the last good troll on gunnit. The rest are either trash or moderators.
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u/Etteluor Oct 22 '13
I havn't seen Sit-Rep post very often, but it always seems like he is being condecending. And yeah I've had very little interaction with the mods.
EDIT: just look at his post history, he's pretty much always a dick u/sit-rep
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Oct 22 '13
I havn't seen Sit-Rep post very often, but it always seems like he is being
condecendingcondescending. And yeah I've had very little interaction with the mods.FTFY.
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Oct 22 '13
Not a mod.
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Oct 22 '13
I know. I wasn't saying anyone was a cock either. Just said they are regarded as them. I personally think the shit that goes down in there is hilarious.
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Oct 22 '13
As someone outside the US I have trouble understanding what's going on here.
So this guy owns a gun store but is selling faulty guns at a gun show. Would he be selling them in his store as well? I know the laws are a bit different between store sales and show sales.
Does he have no responsibility as a seller to not knowingly sell faulty goods?
I mean over here a shopkeeper would get in trouble for knowingly selling a batch of faulty biscuits ffs, it's hilarious that it seems to be he can get away with selling faulty guns of all things.
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u/ErasmusDarwin Oct 22 '13
I know the laws are a bit different between store sales and show sales.
This is a bit of a misconception. Someone who's engaged in selling guns as a business has to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL). If he's got an FFL, he has to follow the same procedure whether he's selling the gun at his store or at a show.
Conversely, a private individual selling a gun at a show doesn't have to follow those procedures (unless there's a state law to the contrary), but they also wouldn't have to follow those procedures if they were selling the gun to someone they found via Craigslist or even just a buddy.
Finally, the majority of the table space at gun shows are manned by actual gun dealers with FFLs. Well, that's not entirely true since there are a lot of tables that aren't selling guns -- you don't need an FFL to sell holsters, ammo, accessories, books, or beef jerky. But the vast majority of tables that're selling actual guns are run by dealers with FFLs and store fronts. So most purchasers go through the same legal steps when they actually go to purchase, they just have a larger selection and a more interesting ambiance.
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u/PraiseBeToScience Oct 22 '13
Conversely, a private individual selling a gun at a show doesn't have to follow those procedures (unless there's a state law to the contrary), but they also wouldn't have to follow those procedures if they were selling the gun to someone they found via Craigslist or even just a buddy.
The reason it's called the gun show loophole isn't because gun shows are the only place you can circumvent background checks through private sales, it's because the term predates the internet. Prior to the internet, if you wanted to sell your gun one of the best places to do it was at a gun show. Where better to meet a massive group of people looking to buy a gun?
But now that the internet is big the gunshow loophole should simply be called the private seller loophole.
Also, there are plenty of FFLs that break the law and sell off the books. People like to pretend (especially the FFLs) that everythings all squeaky clean and legal like. But there have been many investigations into the business and you can easily find an FFL willing to upcharge you a bit and sell you a gun without any background checks. The dirty little secret is everyone in the industry knows the ATF is a shell of an agency. It's hamstrung by laws designed to cripple it as much as possible because there's not enough political support to get rid of it completely.
So the chances of an FFL actually getting hit with any kind of penalty for illegally selling weapons to people is slim to none. You really have to be an extra kind of stupid and be big enough for the ATF to really do anything to you. Chuck's Gun Shop just outside Chicago is where 20% of the firearms used in crime originate, yet they are still open for business.
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u/Bluekestral Oct 28 '13
The father and daughter of RJF had their FFL revoked because they lost several guns.
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Oct 22 '13
Is there a certain limit which means you are a 'dealer'. Say for example I bought 2 or 3 guns and went to a show and sold them privately that only makes me a private seller. But where do I stop being a private seller and start being an actual dealer?
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u/ErasmusDarwin Oct 22 '13
That's a good question. It's not something I've ever needed to look into, but I think there's not really a clear-cut number. I think it's more of an intent issue. If you're doing this every weekend or every show and get caught, you're looking at big trouble.
Straw purchases are also a big no-no -- buying a gun from an FFL specifically for the purpose of selling it to someone else. The stereotypical example is where someone with a criminal record tries to get his girlfriend to buy the gun for him. However, a straw purchase can get you in trouble even if the person you're buying the gun for could pass the background check. Also, even the seller can get in trouble if they sell a gun and know that it's a straw purchase.
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u/Kaluthir Oct 22 '13
I don't think there's a hard limit. It's just whether you do it 'occasionally' or not. As much as the atf loves their bureaucratic nonsense, I don't think they'd even care if you sold a gun every month or so.
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u/not-brodie Oct 22 '13
whenever the BATFE arbitrarily decides you've sold enough guns. there isn't any specific number...
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u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
If you could prove that he knowingly sold you dangerous goods you would probably have a case, but unless it's in writing or something it would just amount to his word against yours.
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u/Jrex13 Oct 22 '13
It, uh, looks like it's all in writing now...
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u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
I don't think OP confirmed it was him (which kinda has me thinking FC is just trolling), but even if he did I dunno how useful reddit posts are in a legal case like this.
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u/DirgeHumani Oct 22 '13
I think this is the first time "As someone outside the US..." has been used in connection to a discussion of guns and not directly followed by "wtf why so guns tho"
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Oct 22 '13
Nah, I find the whole gun culture a bit weird at times, there seems to be an inordinate amount of assholes who are really big into it, but I'm not going to be telling the US how to make their own laws.
Besides I would love to be able to go shooting every day as I really enjoy target shooting but no such luck over here.
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Oct 22 '13
Besides I would love to be able to go shooting every day as I really enjoy target shooting but no such luck over here.
I must admit, even though I'm totally against people owning guns (Brit), the idea of blasting away at a target sounds really really fun. Definitely will do it if I every visit the US.
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u/poiro Oct 22 '13
Join one of the uk shooting ranges!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ranges_in_the_United_Kingdom
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Oct 22 '13
It's great fun to do when you're in the US. Depends on which state you are in as to whether there's even a range though and it's not cheap for ammo.
I've only managed to get to handgun ranges, I still want to go to a rifle range but no idea when I'll get the chance.
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u/Rodrigo_Loco Oct 22 '13 edited Sep 21 '17
deleted
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Oct 22 '13
I have a friend who lives in Bellflower, he wants to take me to Vegas because he says the shooting is better there but I am a reformed gambling addict so I don't want to go to Vegas.
Are there rifle ranges in the greater LA area?
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u/CODYsaurusREX Oct 22 '13
To the best of my knowledge, selling faulty firearms and withholding/lying about pertinent safety information could qualify as reckless endangerment, which is a crime in the USA. If the individual who bought the gun killed him/her-self or someone else due to the defect, that could be negligent manslaughter, or even a higher crime.
I'm not a lawyer, but that's how I understand it.
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u/Barl0we Oct 22 '13
I will, I'll start my own gun company, with blackjack and hookers
In fact, forget the gun company!
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u/nancy_ballosky Oct 22 '13
"Youre a fucking bitch"
lol my favorite comment in there, so appropriate for FC.
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Oct 22 '13
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u/smoking_gun Oct 23 '13
Not trying to side with FC (I think he is a total asshole and I've gotten into it with him a few times), but I do know that FFL's do travel around to different gun shows.
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u/freedomweasel Oct 22 '13
That's a pretty plausible guess. I expected it to be FC when I saw the title, but his comments are even more off the wall than usual, which is impressive. He's normally logical, just extremely blunt and an asshole about it. Most of what he's talking about in there just doesn't make any sense.
Either way, creating drama is pretty much what he seems to enjoy.
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u/ShannonMS81 Oct 22 '13
You flat out lied, and you're lying about not having lied. You're a liar.
This comment, made me giggle so hard.
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u/nowhere3 Oct 22 '13
Some good stuff here too: http://np.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1ovpc9/question_about_legality_etiquette_for_an/ccw4nf8?context=1
including:
Dear law student, I'm judgment proof. Your premise which I reject works on the idea that I actually have assets
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u/soylent_absinthe Oct 22 '13
This fucktard and Amy from that baking company ought to run away together.
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u/CantaloupeCamper Oct 22 '13
Recall for a gun... what could go wrong?
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u/CharsCustomerService Oct 22 '13
Guns are recalled all the time, either to avoid something going wrong or to avoid it. It's exactly the same as cars being recalled. Manufacturing and design defects happen.
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u/strolls Oct 22 '13 edited Oct 22 '13
If you want to know more about this guy, /r/GunsAreCool have a massive hard-on for him.
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u/hybridtheorist Oct 22 '13
Ignoring the drama, I love the OPs "tell me how awesome I am" post.
"Some asshole was selling guns that had been recalled for safety and lying about it, I pointed out to people this gun could accidentally discharge, was I right to do this?"
Fucks sake.
If you want to know the recall http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/08/29/springfield-armory-issues-safety-recall-for-xd-s-pistols/
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u/not-brodie Oct 22 '13
not everyone follows every single gun. do you know every car safety recall? every car seat? every microwave/refrigerator/washer/dryer?
the gun was recalled, the seller knew it and intentionally hid the fact. this guy did the other potential buyers a favor.
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u/hybridtheorist Oct 22 '13
That's exactly the point I'm making though. He's posting to reddit asking if he did the right thing, when its so fucking obvious he did.
He's not really saying "reddit, am I in the right here?" its "reddit, tell me I'm awesome"
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Oct 22 '13
You know, I think I can live with that. If the price for having people do good things when they otherwise may not have is that sometimes they ask people to pat them on the back for it, I'll pay it. It's not like it negatively affects my life in any significant way.
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u/not-brodie Oct 22 '13
yeah, i can see that. he may have hoped that any other local buyers who saw that post would know to avoid that retailer.
but i think your assessment is closer to the truth
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u/ShitDickMcCuntFace Oct 22 '13
The name for this type of malfunction is a "slamfire." The firing pin remains extended(or a foreign object gets between the primer and breechface) when the slide drops on a chambered round, firing the round without a trigger pull. Can potentially turn your semi auto pistol into a fully automatic gun that continues to fire until the magazine is empty.
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u/NarstyHobbitses Oct 22 '13
Jesus...I can't imagine FC is this big of an ass to sell something that could go so wrong and still sleep at night. He's gotta be trolling. Fight Club reference? Come on.
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u/ShitDickMcCuntFace Oct 22 '13
I only lurk r/guns because the community is shit from the mods on down. I assure you this is normal behavior.
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Oct 23 '13
I can't imagine FC is this big of an ass to sell something that could go so wrong and still sleep at night.
He is.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Oct 22 '13
FC is a personage more than anything else. He just plays a part. He also almost certainly wasn't the actual seller, but was just saying that to rile people up.
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u/IronMaiden571 Oct 22 '13
Not many people on r/guns really understand FC so I'm not surprised to see him getting ripped to shreds on SRD.
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u/Georgy_K_Zhukov Oct 22 '13
Yeah. You just have to enjoy him for what he is. A caricature of your grumpy LGS who may or may not actually be the type of dick he pretends to be on the internet. Its not quite trolling, but he does enjoy "rustling jimmies".
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u/IronMaiden571 Oct 22 '13
Exactly. You've just got to read his posts for what they are, a short story to get a chuckle out of. He's a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to guns as well. He definitely gets a fair share of turbulence whenever he posts.
On an unrelated note, I like a lot of your posts as well. I love me some r/badhistory.
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u/addscontext5261 Oct 22 '13
Oh an r/guns thread? Yeah I totally expect rational discussion of the drama rather than circlekerking about the subreddit....totally
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u/Wazowski Oct 22 '13
Hmmm... it doesn't look like your sarcastic prediction panned out there, chief. Better luck next time, though.
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u/thenuge26 Oct 22 '13
Should have checked the schedule. Today's tuesday, that means we're shilling for /r/guns.
You're gonna have to wait for Thursday before we can circlejerk about how terrible gun owners are.
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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '13
I particularly loved his citation of fight club, that really sealed the deal; he's definitely a total moron. How did he think anyone would give him any credibility for that?