r/india • u/sree_1983 • Sep 20 '13
[Weekly Discussion] Let's talk about:Punjab
| State | Punjab |
|---|---|
| Website | http://www.punjabgovt.gov.in/ |
| Population | 27,704,236 |
| Chief Minister | Parkash Singh Badal SAD |
| Capital | Chandigarh |
| Offical Language | Punjabi |
| GDP in crores | Rs 157,455 |
| Sex ratio | 895 |
Misc Discussion
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Thanks to fuck_cricket, that_70s_show_fan and tripshed
Thanks to Mods of /r/india for wiki access
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u/AdiAV Sep 21 '13
things i liked about punjab was good clean roads ,ultra cheap shopping in chandigarh, people dont harass tourists like in other states , good food , hoteliers and autowallahs not looting , friendly people
most imp thing ' beautiful girls '
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u/achshar Sep 21 '13
Yea roads and dead simple sector map is my favorite part of living in chandigarh. navigating is so damn easy! I love to drive in the city.
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u/piezod Sep 21 '13
Bonus tip - Any two sectors facing each other; their sum is divisible by 13 and there is no sector 13 in Chandigarh.
Bhubeneshwar was also designed by the same architect and has the same layout.
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u/chengiz Sep 20 '13
Goddamn that 895 number is disturbing.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
The problem of this skewed up sex ratio lies in the way lively hood is earned in Punjab.
Nobody has a lot of cash and everybody has a lot of land. At the time of marrying the daughter, at times the boy's family demands dowry, they cash is not there so the land is asked. Father has to give something to the daughter. Daughters according to me were not liked because of this, Jatts don't want to depart with an inch of their land without people getting murdered.
The society is patriachial as well. Jatt farmers are the bread earners because working on fields is a man's job, so the upper hand. Women don't go to fields so they give up on controlling affairs int he family.
The skewed sex ratio will improve as soon as the dowry problem is fixed.
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u/achshar Sep 21 '13
Yea I am surprised too. I guess that explains why my co ed college is filled with boys.
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u/NJMD Sep 21 '13
Punjab has the highest % of Scheduled Castes in India. Punjab is about 32% scheduled caste and some areas more than 50%.
Punjab scheduled castes are as rich and powerful as other general castes.
Most dominant are the Chamar/Ravidassia/Ramdasia about 12% of the population and the Valmiki/Mazabhi/Chura about 11% of the population.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13 edited Sep 23 '13
Punjab scheduled castes are as rich and powerful as other general castes.
I wouldn't agree. I am 'someone' who lived a lot of his life in the core of the villages. SC and ST's in most of the villages in Punjab don't own agricultural land. Their lively hood is dependent on the daily manual labor. They have built various skills, some are plumbers, motor mechanics, vehicle mechanics, electricians, Mistris etc etc. Most of the daily laborers (if not Bhaiyas) are from these castes. The free dole outs from Govt has helped them live a laid back life.
I was surprised when the first time I came to know that there are 2 gurudwaras in my village. One of Majhabis and one for Jatts. Although the money collection is not limited to one caste. Majhabis collects it from both Majhabis and Jatts and vice versa. However, I have met idiotic babas (who read paaths) that they won't eat food cooked by chamaars. I personally have been involved in the drives to make these Paathis aware that their believe is wrong and there is nothing wrong in eating food cooked by chamaars. It was pretty shitty to feel when I came to know about if for the first time first hand in my home itself. We had a three day Paath and this one senior Paathi refused to eat after he saw two ladies from lower caste making rotis. After some persuasion he finally agreed to eat. The thing I realized was that these Paathis are not very strict in their believes, you just have to convince them that they are going against the Guru's teachings. They will immediately toe in line.
Times have changed, Jatts pride lies in agricultural land which they slowly losing after successive slits between kins. The children of these landlords losing over the time and generations. Their kinds didn't study because they thought that they don't need to, because of the family land. Slowly 3-4 generations down the family tree, they are left with an acre of two to plow. Where as Churas and other SC/ST's worked their ass off, learned the skills and earned money to come at par with these Jatts. Things are mixing now, marriages are common between Jatt sides and sc/st sides in towns. Slowly this is spreading out in villages as well.
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u/MrJekyll Sep 21 '13
It is the land of 5-rivers, yet fish is curiously out of their menu & can't seem to think beyond kukkar (chicken) & paneer.
Also, most Punjabis I've have a illogically high opinion about how superior Punjab/Punjabis are compared to others.
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Sep 21 '13
have a illogically high opinion about how superior Punjab/Punjabis are compared to others
As a Punjabi, yeah, particularly genetically, since Punjabis are a mix of Middle-Eastern and external cultures. I mean, if you look at it from the other perspective, that means most Punjabis are just bastard-children, right? ;) I think that the mixing of cultures was cool for its own reason, in producing intra-Punjabi diversity, but it's nothing for people to be flaunting about as much as some do.
(note-I am still a very proud Punjabi)
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u/MrJekyll Sep 22 '13
Historically, because of its geography, Punjab has been the gateway for invaders to India. So, it has more than its share of mixing.
I don't think being a mix of Middle-Eastern and external cultures is a bad thing, the genetic diversity actually should make one better. Similarly, I don't think being "pure race" is a thing to boast about either.
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Sep 22 '13
Yeah, exactly. The only problem is, that Western Punjabis seem to, in line with general Pakistani sentiment, try to eradicate the Vedic influence, while some Eastern Punjabis try to play off Punjab as always being an Indian nation. In reality, it's somwhere near the middle (definitely moreso towards Vedic civilization) culturewise, but ethnically, it's a tossup.
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u/uteuxpia Sep 22 '13
But never forget: Pakistan is mostly Punjabi, and they also have 5-7 rivers. The Punjabis of Pak eat fish. The Punjabis of India avoid it because Bengalis and Southies eat fish, and the Punjabis are avoiding the habits of these people.
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u/MrJekyll Sep 22 '13
Now that I think of it, Punjabis have the exact same attitude about rice too.
I remember a Punjabi colleague (a guy with Engineering degree mind you, not a ignorant villaged) surprised to find his south Indian friends eating rice, he said something like :
"How can you eat rice , only servants/laborers eat rice !"
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u/uteuxpia Sep 22 '13
I've noticed this exact same phenomenon as well!
However, my Pakistani Punjabi friends are NOT this way. They eat rice AND fish!
Punjabis from India will make an exception to eating basmati rice.
They're freaking out that others will mistake them from South Indians and Bengalis, and they're trying to create a separate identity.
Good luck Punjabis.
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u/bhaiyyaji Sep 24 '13
What the fuck...
Are the majority of Punjabi people as close-minded as this ?
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u/piezod Sep 21 '13
Also, most Punjabis I've have a illogically high opinion about how superior Punjab/Punjabis are compared to others.
Yeah, blame it on the machismo.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
There has been an increased impetus on pisciculture and fish lately.
Also, most Punjabis I've have a illogically high opinion about how superior Punjab/Punjabis are compared to others.
Saar, we are, for we are the purest aryans.
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u/MrJekyll Sep 21 '13
Saar, we are, for we are the purest aryans.
I wonder why people would think that is a good thing ?!!
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
Also, most Punjabis I've have a illogically high opinion about how superior Punjab/Punjabis are compared to others.
Jatts don't vote for Congress. I see where you are coming from.
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u/MrJekyll Sep 22 '13
Are you still talking about Punjabi Jats or Jats in general ?
My comment was more about what they think of their music, their dance, their weddings, their food-habits, their history.... Not that they have nothing to feel proud about, just that somewhere down the line, they lose perspective, sense of proportion & touch with reality.
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Sep 23 '13
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Sep 25 '13
Yeah I guess I'm kind of in the same situation....I've told my friends that out of all Indian girls, Bengalis, Kashmiris, and Punjabis are the best looking to me. I think its a kind of light-hearted arrogance, never taken too far.
Bitch, I am Indian
Meh, I disagree with you here. I'm neither Pakistani nor Indian-I'm Punjabi.
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Oct 15 '13
yeah same here, i am 5'9" and i get compliments for my height to which i am like WTF!
don't tell me you are in Chennai :D
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u/MrJekyll Sep 23 '13
Oh, one more thing I've noticed about Punjabi girls.
They look good, but within a year of marriage, they explode & look like ..erm, Americans..
I guess, they are waiting for marriage after which the let go of their diet restriction & gorge themselves of paneer, ghee, chicken etc :)
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Sep 23 '13
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u/MrJekyll Sep 26 '13
I have seen a LOT of Punjabi women ...they are not a rare-breed as you seem to think.
I think the gaining of weight is partly natural, as we get to our mid-20s(which is when people get married), our metabolism messes up. And yes, the fattening cuisine does not do good either.
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u/ponga_pandit Sep 20 '13
How bad is the drug problem here?
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u/achshar Sep 21 '13
Chandigarh here. They are there is you want them and I dont go out much but yes I do see couple of stoners every day in college. Other than that, nothing serious.
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Sep 21 '13
If not seen, a report published in Tehelka and and a documentary called Glut (on youtube) will tell you something about the problem.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
Lack of employment opportunities, splitting of family agricultural land in generations has led to running out of riches. Lack of education and craze of Canada, OZ, NZ< US, UK, etc etc has eroded their passion for education and wealth. I have seen folks mortgaging their land to cuff up enough money to pay to the agents to sly to the foreign land.
Primary reason of drug problem is that the Youth of Punjab is vella. There are a lot of people who skipped getting education and slowly realized that there is no way of making it a success. They end up drinking every day. When the money for the drinks run out, they settled down with cheap capsules and die in few years. Kins of marginal farmers are the biggest losers.
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Sep 20 '13
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 21 '13
Rahul Gandhi was correct then
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
He wasn't. His spread is among the Sc'ST's and lowly farmers. He knows from them that whole of Punjab is under drugs. Poor and educated are most effected with drugs in their lives.
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u/ponga_pandit Sep 20 '13
these "friends" were using needles and the were unable to find veins in their arms and mostly injecting stuff near their genitilia
OOPS!
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u/bloodydaisy Sep 20 '13
That is a depressingly high number. What do you think is the main cause of drug abuse being so high in Punjab? Easy accessibility to cross-border drugs?
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Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13
Free money is one.
Ancestral land that used to be tilled and toiled over is now just a good mine, with some loaning it out to immigrants from UP/Bihar, and others selling it for crazy profits. End up drinking a lot or going into hard drugs ie smack. Of course, the kids don't work shit for it, and probably never will; my taxi driver in India got mugged by smackies. The situation is so bad when I visited, that they told us nobody goes put at night nowadays,reminiscent of the 80's....
It's really sad, and it shows how although we think poverty is killing much of India, in Punjab it is abundance...
EDIT: and of course, the geographical reason is that Punjab is near the narcotics trade between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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u/parlor_tricks Sep 21 '13
Shit. That situation can only get worse if its not handled, and the bad is really bad. The kind of stuff that sets you back generations.
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u/piezod Sep 21 '13
That whole geographical belt is known as golden crescent. The narcotics people mostly use is poppy husk among others. It grows untamed on the land.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
I thing you are wrong. Jatts never sell their land, no matter what. The ones who have sold were already on the brink of falling apart.
How it starts is; Someone in family is sick, daughter has to get married, Son has to have a grand marriage, son has to be sent abroad. They loan money beyond their means. When they are not able to return, they start selling their land, small piece at a time till they completely run out.
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u/yoyosing Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13
ok now i am punjabi and due to work i have to travel length and breath of punjab
so most of people are asking about situation on drugs so here it is
the simple answer is that it is worst then you think. the reason behind this are
1.Bad politics-this is main reason of drug spreading in punjab. whether it is congress or akali these parties are full indulge in selling and buying business of drugs or you can say that they are main kingpins of drug mafia in punjab. moreover alcoholism is also great problem in punjab. you will find less temples or schools then teka's(liquor and wine shop) and most tragically thing is this that most of punjab revenue comes from teka's and state lottery system.
2.money- First you people know that price of land in punjab are very high. and most people have some amount of land in there village or city. due to which people have huge amount of money so they start taking drugs for fun but later they become addicted to it.
3.unemployment- this is also one of the main reason of drug addiction. many industries in ludhiana (which was known as Manhattan of india) and mandigobind garh(which was known as Detroit of india) are closed or shifting to Gujarat. the reason behind this is ugly politics.(if any one want know that in brief i can explain it later).
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 21 '13
whether it is congress or akali these parties are full indulge in selling and buying business of drugs
Drugs come from pakistan. so basically these guys are working against the state as well as society
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u/yoyosing Sep 22 '13
yes that's the mean tragedy they only think about money... they have to earn huge amount of money so that during time of election they can give bottle of daru(alcohol) or bukhi and one kg chicken to each voter during time of vote. i have seen this things with my own eyes.
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Sep 21 '13
Grew up in Punjab but I've been living elsewhere for a few years now.I usually visit during the holidays and have noted how much Punjab has changed over the years. I used to live in Ludhiana and I was quite surprised to see all the new sports,restaurant and other retail chains that had set up shop all over the place. In a way Ludhiana, at least is developing quite well and the standard of Living has risen quite a bit. Punjab has drastically changed over the years almost to the description of being "Westernised" which maybe a good thing but also warrants a decrease in cultural values which make Punjab unique.
However, this is just an outsider observation as I don't live there any-more. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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u/chinchpokli Sep 20 '13
Punjab is probably the only state that suffered the effects of partition more than any other state. What has the behavior been of the people already living to the people who migrated in? How are most of them doing now? I'm sure there are families who have relatives in both countries, how do they keep in touch with each other? How difficult is it for families in both countries to visit each other?
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u/piezod Sep 21 '13
All my grandparents were born in erstwhile Pakistan.
They all had to migrate. Was smooth for a few. Was kinda bad for one. leaving behind your home, friends, means of livelihood and moving to a new place with nothing and an insecure future.
They are still hurt by what happened. Yet, very strong and to have built a new life here.
Edit - No relatives across. Grandma's brother went to see old house in Pakistan long back.
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u/achshar Sep 21 '13
I have a couple of far of relative that were on the other side of the border but moved this side.
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Sep 20 '13
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Sep 23 '13
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Sep 25 '13
Same, my grandpa was telling me how they had to steal wheat in the night from the farmers who wouldn't give food.
In hindsight, maybe the loss of wealth in Western Punjab was a positive for me. It motivated my dad to focus on education, and work in IT.
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 21 '13
Hey one more fact, traditional Punjabi weapons are also very awesome. had seen them in a discovery show. would have posted the link but I am very tired after day long travel. It would be very nice if someone who knows about these can give more details
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 21 '13
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Serious IAS aspirant friend had told me that most of the Punjabis are descendants of the Greeks who stayed back in North West Indian sub-continent and had their small kingdom after Alexander's invasion. How true is that from the archaeological/genetic POV. Are punjabis not Aryans?
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Why were Sikhs got alienated in late 70's & early 80's which led to insurgency & terrorism in state? Economically Punjab was doing great that time, thanks to Green revolution.
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What is the current situation of Khalistan movement?
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Bengalis never forgot what Congress govt did to them and their young generation during Naxalbari movement, hence Congress never came back to power there. Why have Punjabis not done that? Have they forgiven Congress for their role in 1984 genocide & the crushing of insurgency later?
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Jokes aside, what is the real reason of obesity in Sikh women?
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u/whatthesunny Sep 21 '13
Why were Sikhs got alienated in late 70's & early 80's which led to insurgency & terrorism in state? Economically Punjab was doing great that time, thanks to Green revolution.
At partition, a Nehru and the Congress Party made numerous promises were made to the Sikhs of Punjab. Having lost their capital of Lahore to Pakistan, they were promised a new one. Not exactly identifying as Hindus, they were promised a degree of autonomy. Being predominantly farmers, they were told they would have retain rights to the rivers that flow through Punjab.
In the 50's, greater Punjab was partitioned, once again, and reorganized, like much of the rest of India, along linguistic lines. The hindu inhabitants of greater Punjab listed hindi as their mother tongue on the national consensus when most spoke Punjabi and could barely utter a word of hindi. Haryana and Himachal Pradesh were formed.
Chandigarh, the new capital was built. It was to be the temporary capital of both Punjab and Haryana and eventually be transferred to solely Punjab.
Fast forward 20 years later to the 70's, those promised were broken. Punjab never received a new 'capital'. It shares Chandigarh with Haryana. It's treated the same as any other state within India, even Jammu and Kashmir has more autonomy. Complete access to Punjab's rivers is not given. Instead, industrial use of those rivers is given priority.
The Akali Dal, the political party representing the Sikhs of Punjab, took the issue up with the central government. It put up the following objectives:
The transfer of the federally administered city of Chandigarh to Punjab.
The transfer of Punjabi-speaking and contiguous areas of Haryana to Punjab.
Decentralisation of states under the existing constitution, limiting the central government’s role.
The call for land reforms and industrialisation of Punjab, along with safeguarding the rights of the weaker sections of the population.
The enactment of an all-India gurdwara (Sikh house of worship) act.
Protection for minorities residing outside Punjab, but within India.
Revision of government’s recruitment quota restricting the number of Sikhs in armed forces. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement#Akali_Dal.27s_demands
By the 70's, the Akali Dal had become a headache for the rulling Congress Party. To undermine the Akali Dal, Indira Gandhi began supporting the emerging leader of a rival political group in the Punjab, Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale of the Damdami Taksal.
Bhindranwale emassed followers. His strongest support came from those who had been alienated by the central government (think corruption). He preached a return to Sikhism's roots. He spoke out against the consumption of alcohol and use of drugs. He began condemning those who gave up Sikh religious practtices. Eventually, Bhindranwale bit the hand that fed him. He began challenging Indira Gandhi and the Congress Party publicly.
Things got out of hand, and some within the central government began suspecting ISI support behind Bhindranwale's movement, much akin to India's own support of the Bengali Mukti Bahini in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh).
With the central government out looking for him, Bhindranwale found himself holed up in the Golden Temple in Amritsar. Fearing a secession in the Punjab, the central government sent in the Army into the Golden Temple complex (with tanks) in what was called Operation Bluestar. Bhindranwale and his followers resisted and were eventually killed in combat. The Temple itself suffered much desecration.
Unfortunately, though Operation Bluestar was a military success, it was a social disaster. The army went into the Golden Temple complex on day of religious significance for the Sikhism. Many innocent Sikhs were caught up in the gunfire. It was alleged that some inside the Harmandir Sahib were caught alive and executed with their hands tied behind their back.
In the aftermath of Operation Bluestar, most Sikh, even those residing abroad, knew that Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was a marked woman. Indira Gandhi's closest advisers begged her to replace her security detail, which were Sikhs. Fearing that such act would undermine her credibility to a secular country, she made no changes.
On October 31, 1984, Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards. In the wake of her assassination, riots erupted against the Sikhs of New Delhi in retribution. Times correspondent Pranay Gupte was eye witness to much what happen in New Delhi. He later wrote much what he uncovered in his book, Vengeance: India After the Assassination of Indira Gandhi))In his opinion, what happened in New Delhi was not just a riot but pogrom led by members of the Congress Party to undermine a people's identity and put them back in their place.
Then began the Sikh insurgency in the Punjab...but that's another story.
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 21 '13
respect for Sikhs for moving ahead and quickly assimilating with the main stream. i am so much fond of sikh and NE community.
Again Congress at the root of such a critical issue.
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Sep 24 '13 edited Sep 24 '13
What can we do man? The biggest problem I have with those who criticize the Hindus in power is that arguably, Sikhs did the most damage to other Sikhs. KP Gill, Beant Singh, today Badal....we should just accept the fate with Chardi Kala.p, and try to make India a better place for Punjab and everyone instead of whining and separating into a state undoubtedly as bad if not worse than India.
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Sep 21 '13
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Sep 22 '13
The situation was relatively under control before '84, as compared to what happened afterward. The situations were somewhat isolated, and the majority of the people were not drawn in/supportive of those. The big thing that angered Sikhs, and led to the mass insurgency, was Bluestar and '84 pogroms.
I agree on the Haryanvi, and Himacheli part; there is even a Haryanvi language. The British just grouped the three distinct cultures together in Punjab to make it easier to govern. There was a problem though, when the Hindu inhabitants of Punjab itself listed Hindi as their spoken language.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Neither Haryanvis nor Himachalis speak Punjabi. We speak a dialect of Hindi and have been using Devanagari since before Gurmukhi existed.
He is talking about the areas close to Punjab like Ambala.
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Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13
-aryan theory is bullshit, Punjab has had many foreign invaders including Greeks, Greco-Bactrian Empire, Kushites, and general Muslim rulers, which contributes to genetic variance in the region, and why they may look somewhat different from other Indians.
-radical Sikh preachers, enforcement of Hindi, sects deviating from Sikh teachings, and most of all, dirty politics played by Indira Gandhi to centralize the region and spread political affluence.
-I'm a Sikh-nobody gives a shit in India, many Sikhs in America and Canada and UK are still clamoring for it, and not to be a dick, but most of the educated Sikhs know its unrealistic and stupid, and don't support it in the least
-I haven't really forgiven Congress, no. Most Sikhs don't. I don't think we should go around killing members, but the fact that those Sikh militants (who often joined because they were pissed the police killed an innocent cousin or something) were immediately located, often at the expense of several innocent lives, tortured to crazy extremes, and killed extra-judiciously, vs. the Congress politicians who got away with pogroms and slaughtering innocents (and also increasing rift between Sikhs and Hindus) is disgusting, and unless they are punished, I will not forgive. I think today Punjab is in a better state and that Punjabis should focus on making a better future, and that Khalistan is a lost deluded goal, but it is important to remember '84. Not just for Sikhs, but to remember that no matter how much respect a community has, if it is in the way of Indian politicians, it WILL be plowed down.
-usually girls are fit when young, but just like men, they start eating too much. That ghee and paraonthe ain't good for the stomach
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Sep 23 '13
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Sep 25 '13
I feel so bad, I am giving you so many notifications :P Sorry, Just had a lot to respond to...
I don't think many people view the Aryan theory as significant anyway, do they? I mean it is pretty clear that Vedic civilization, such as the Mahabharatha, developed heavily in Punjab (or Sapth Sindh as it was called), and Punjab was definitely settled and later invaded by central asian and middle eastern tribes. What is bullshit is the assertion that the European Aryans brought their superior culture and Hinduism and made the Dravidians lower caste. It's pretty obvious that Veds were written in India, with foreign influence....Hinduism was born in India, not outside and brought to India. I used to believe the theory that Dravidians are low caste, because low caste typically seem dark-skinned, but then I realized it was bullshit. I know many light-skinned dalits, and Punjab never had defined caste anyway. My ancestors worked the land instead of owning it, but they don't seem Dravidian (today they are Jatt, i.e. rich farmers....goes to show how the caste system in Punjab isn't a real caste system). The Aryan theory just reeks of European superiorism; of course the Europeans brought civilization and subdued the primitive Dravidians (/s)-it gave a precedence for British rule over India.
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Sep 21 '13
Jokes aside, what is the real reason of obesity in Sikh women?
Hain?
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u/ranjan_zehereela Sep 22 '13
Hain?
what was that
I was asking about it genuinely. abhi bolo, there has to be some science na behind that. ki sadar jokes ke alawa sardarni jokes are also ok????
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u/Mastervk Sep 21 '13 edited Jan 18 '26
vast marvelous include coordinated busy meeting racial paint fuzzy wild
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Sep 21 '13
This is factually inaccurate. Genetically, Punjabis have much more in common with Middle Easterns. I often get confused for a Middle Eastern. Of course Aryan theory is bullshit, but what is true is that throughout the millennia, MANY from the Middle East invaded Punjab. In fact, after the Maurya reign, there was a Greco-Bactrian reign in Punjab. This contributes to the mixed genetic variance and mixed culture we see in Punjab. Culturally, it is probably closer to Vedic civilization, but the Muslim impact cannot be ignored.
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Sep 22 '13 edited Sep 22 '13
I often get confused for a Middle Eastern.
saar phenotype(looks) is different from genotype.
And what is middle eastern ? A yemeni arab and a jordanian dont look similar.
Pliss to stop the "we are pureblood aryans" cj.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Right. My great great grand father could have been easily confused as an Afghani.
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u/brownwog2 Sep 21 '13
Genetically, Punjabis have much more in common with Middle Easterns.
Let me call out the bullshit. I have been mistaken for a Turk, a Spaniard and an Italian. I am not Punjabi but from UP. I am not the lightest skinned or the tallest of my relatives. Many have lighter skins and / or are taller.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
Serious IAS aspirant friend had told me that most of the Punjabis are descendants of the Greeks who stayed back in North West Indian sub-continent and had their small kingdom after Alexander's invasion. How true is that from the archaeological/genetic POV. Are punjabis not Aryans?
Point: How far is Punjab from Pakistan, Afghanistan/Iran/Turkmenistan, Ujbekistan, tajakistan as compared to Southern and Easter Indian states? Naturally former countries are close so the resemblances.
Why were Sikhs got alienated in late 70's & early 80's which led to insurgency & terrorism in state? Economically Punjab was doing great that time, thanks to Green revolution.
Fake pride, Sikhs thought they are the best and Brahmins are chutiyas. in the decades from 1960 - 1990, they realized they are too small and too less powerful. The ego was crushed. End of the story.
What is the current situation of Khalistan movement?
Current situation is zero. However at the time of voting, parties opposing Congress brings events such as these to rile up emotions to make people anti congress.Bengalis never forgot what Congress govt did to them and their young generation during Naxalbari movement, hence Congress never came back to power there. Why have Punjabis not done that? Have they forgiven Congress for their role in 1984 genocide & the crushing of insurgency later?
People barely knew about politics back then. What congress did in the 70's and 80's in Punjab and still managed to win elections was because they were more organized and other people gave two fucks about politics. Only after the turn around of the century people started paying more attention to politics. Hence congress lost back to back in Punjab.
Jokes aside, what is the real reason of obesity in Sikh women?
Ghee, Makhan, Butter, Chicken, Parotheh. Big built.
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u/bigdaddyisbig Sep 21 '13 edited Sep 21 '13
To answer your first question: They are the people of Malana, not Punjab. On a slightly different note, you get the best hash in the world there. Here's another article about this pure Aryan race
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
No, many of us are Aryans. But we could also be Persians etc. We have distinctive features as compared to the south and eastern Indians. The differences were more remarkable in the older generations.
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u/that_70_show_fan Sep 21 '13
Why such a low sex ratio? From. What I know Sikhism treats women with great respect when compared to all other religions. Is it skewed wrt some specific groups?
Also, how is the law and order situation in the state in general?
Third, what about the increasing cancer rates among farmers and are the NGOs/Govt non profit organizations doing something about that?
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Sep 21 '13
Punjabi culture-patriarchy prevails, and is responsible for female infanticide.
Unfortunately, many Sikhs cherry pick their beliefs to include long hair but not respect for women :(
State is in perfect law and order, although the druggies are making people weary at night...my uncle said its just as bad as the 80's with the druggies. No insurgencies really.
Not sure...green revolution made Punjabis rich, but also gave the,PM a deadly side effect-cancer. I hope the Indian govt does something, but Badal is an ass.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Infact central government is an ass as they have been increassing MSP which incentives farmers to plunder the land and not go for crop diversification.
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u/whatthesunny Sep 21 '13
Punjabi culture-patriarchy prevails, and is responsible for female infanticide. Unfortunately, many Sikhs cherry pick their beliefs to include long hair but not respect for women :(
As a Sikh myself, I can vouch for this.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Historical dominance of men. Punjab faced a number of invasions in which women were raped and taken away. Thus there was a huge emphasis on honour and reduced the participation of women in society. This unfortunately led to a male dominated society.
In Sikhism, there is no discrimination among men and women. You are actually an apostate if you indulge in female infanticide. However, culture has a huge impact and overshadows religion.
Law and order situation is much better than in other states. Punjab Police is very harsh.
Cancer rates are high due to abuse of natural resources and high dependence on chemicals for agriculture. The government and NGOs are taking proactive steps on this.
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u/whatthesunny Sep 21 '13
What I know Sikhism treats women with great respect when compared to all other religions. Is it skewed wrt some specific groups?
Sikhism does indeed treat women with respect. It's the the Sikhs themselves who do not follow that particular stipulation.
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Sep 21 '13
Why such a low sex ratio? From. What I know Sikhism treats women with great respect when compared to all other religions. Is it skewed wrt some specific groups?
I am a Punjabi Hindu. My best friends are Punjabi Sikhs, one is still a farmer. Now the educated lot is OK with having a daughter but a son is a must. I have heard, can't confirm but am 100% sure, that one of the very well educated and rich relatives of mine had gone through a process of having a son. They are in Haryana and it is so common in Haryana and in Punjab. My farmer friend is also wishing for a son, he loves his daughter and hardly calls her Beti, she is "Beta" for him.
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Sep 21 '13
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Officially, Sikhism is all about "equal status for women" and all, but in reality, the rehat maryada (code of conduct) stipulates a moral code for Sikh women.
What???? There is no discrimination in Rehat Maryada.
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Sep 21 '13
Whats the dating scene like in Punjab?
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u/achshar Sep 21 '13
If you are in a city like chandigarh (I am) it will not be much trouble. Couples are easy to spot in the malls and no one bats an eye. Same goes for PU area, and sector 17. I think I am being optimistic when I say that it's not much of a taboo here unless it's midnight.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
Nobody Mentioned Gadka. (Sikh fighting art)
Nobody mentioned 6'5 Nihangs and their 25 meter pagri.
Nobody mentioned free Langars for the whole month of Nagar Kirtan and Gatka procession around every village, town in Punjab. The Shabeel oh my god. The procession of Guru Nanak from hoshiarpur to Dera Baba Nanak.
No body mentioned Gidda and Bhangra, and the pings in the spring season. And the boliyan. And the Gharoli.
Nobody mentioned the hit songs of waris and Bulleh Shah. Nobody mentioned the vast unending fields of Wheat. Nobody said a thing about paddy either. Being such a small state Punjab is the biggest producer of wheat in India. Mandi Gar Gobindgarh rolls out the most amount of steel sheets in the country.
Nobody mentioned the Gabroo Jawans, the one who has appetite of a buffalo. The stories of one bucket whiskey is real. My Two Tayajis can eat 10 - 14 Rotis in Break fast. About same in Lunch and dinner, all three meals with same Sabzi and a Coala of Dahi(a big bowl of curd). 2 liters of Sugar cane Juice pre-lunch (in winters). 4 liters of buffalo milk almost everyday, that is if buffaloes are milking. (Buffalo doesn't give milk all around the year). I personally have seen them drink 1 liter of tea in a sitting. They both are around 6'3. At their peak these guys use to load 5 boris of Khaad (50 kg each bori) on their 24" atlas gold line cycle, and travel 22 kms from town to their village. In their peak time, they use to lift 100 - 120 kgs on their head and run a mile, easily (they keep saying this to me till the day I squatted 180 kgs in from of them). They use to tell me great stories of them beating big big pahalwaans. One day I did 45 pulls ups and asked them if they ever did this in their peak time? Ever since then, they spared me from this self prodness.
The culture of Punjab is rich, the history is full of events, the water clearer, the air fresh, and the people with biggest hearts.
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u/runningeek Sep 21 '13
I was going to travel across Punjab this winter. Now I think I'm going to meet a lot of debt ridden junkies who may or may not have participated in gender based foeticide.
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u/lolguard Sep 22 '13
Travelling across Punjab in winters is such a bad idea man. Punjab in winters is covered with thick fog. You won't see a sun before 11-1 PM. 10 - 15 days of Dec end and Jan beginning will have no sun. It is cold, this cod is worst than the cod in paces where it snows. The fog fucks your nerves up. You cannot walk under this weather.
Best time to walk across Punjab is mid of beginning of March til April. That's the time to see Nagar Kirtans, Langar almost at every 2 kilometers. People travelling from across Punjab to reach Anandpur to participate in the Holla Mohalla.
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u/Ambarsariya Sep 21 '13
Lol no. Punjab is among the leading major states by per capita income. Drug problem is an issue but primarily limited to villages and mostly in border states. Gender foeticide is an issue.
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Sep 22 '13
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Sep 25 '13
Badal is sucking the blood out of Punjab. I am not aware of the issues with the urban populations/non-Jatts, so thanks for that. I agree, Punjab needs an industry-perhaps a farming industry, where food is packaged in Punjab itself, would help? IT centers in major cities like Patiala, Jalandhar, etc. wouldn't be bad either, considering so many are moving to Bangalore or Mumbai to get those jobs...
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u/NJMD Sep 21 '13
Punjabi villagers are healthier, physically bigger, stronger and richer than rest of India.
This is based on my personal travels to many rural areas in many states.