I decided to pass down the award for the May 2013 Flag Design Contest to the runner up

[u/Bezbojnicul]

Upon careful consideration, I have decided to give up the title of Winner for the May 2013 Design Contest.

I have done this because there have been some issues raised by an anonymous redditor regarding my winning submission. While I do feel that my submission was more than simply a "copy and paste job", I do agree with one point he makes. The fact that I omitted to mention the source of the calligraphy was a big slip-up on my behalf, and I am aware that had some people known they might have voted differently. This fact , coupled with the small difference in votes between me and the runner-up at the end of the voting has lead my to take this decision.

Therefore, I pass down the award to /u/chanther, who submitted a beautiful and brilliant flag. Thanks to everybody who voted for me, and I'm sorry for the slip-up.

[u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

Thank you for being a good person, Bez.

I wanted to open this up to a bigger discussion about the contest generally. This is not the first time we have had concerns raised about whether or not a flag violates the rules and, honestly, the contest has become just too big for me to handle rule-checking on my own.

In the beginning, the contest was a way to attract new subscribers - we didn't have a lot of content, and a monthly contest (1) got people excited, (2) could be posted in other subreddits, and (3) added content to a small subreddit. As a bonus, I now know that flags from the contests get posted to r/pics frequently, thereby adding more subscribers through the cross-post.

That being said, it's obvious that the mission of the contest has changed - we're no longer fishing for subscribers. So, then, why are we holding the contest and do the rules as stated (below) reflect this? In the end, a winner gets a little internet fame and a physical copy of their flag (as supported by purchases at walldecalsnow.com (code: VEXY) and earthflag.eu) - what hoops are appropriate for this level of compensation?

---

Rules as they are currently:

1. Common sense applies: this should be your artwork, not stolen, no clipart, etc. New: If a google reverse image search turns up your flag on another site, it will be removed (you can submit it in the comment thread).

2. You are submitting flag designs, not just images: make them reasonably proportioned. You might want to read NAVA's good flag, bad flag before starting to work. Don't send huge or tiny pictures; having a vector graphic of some sort handy would be a good idea.

3. Your submission must in some way fit the theme. (Theme is listed below.)

4. You may submit up to 3 designs.

5. I reserve the right to adjust these rules should the need arise. I don't think it will be necessary, but I don't want to paint myself into a corner here.

[u/Chanther → u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

I would be comfortable with a rules change that says that any challenges to the originality of a design should be made before the contest ends, and should be posted as comments under the flag in question. From there, individual users can make the decision whether or not that criticism leads them to decide not to upvote the flag.

In that way, the community can be its own policeman, rather than relying on Simon_the_Cannibal to do the legwork of checking for originality. If enough people have concerns, the flag won't win. Alternately, a user might decide to withdraw his or her submission before the contest ends. And if, in the end, someone raises the concern and the flag wins anyway, that reflects a community consensus that the flag doesn't violate the rules.

(Not sure if this is in any way technically feasible, but would it be possible to post the flags on the 10th but not allow upvotes until the 15th, or something like that? Give people a chance to look at the designs and post on them with praise or criticism before the upvotes pour in? Don't know what's possible to do with the mod tools and contest mode.)

I'd much rather have something like that happen than what happened here, where what should be a neat moment for a user turns into controversy.

[u/THROWAWAY210513 → u/Chanther]

In this case the community was acting as its own policeman, and it failed because no one is going to go through and check every entry. I only discovered the original artwork after the contest finished because I loved the winning design and did a web search to learn more about that style of calligraphy. Participants should act as their own policemen with an explicit requirement to disclose the source of any "borrowed" elements in their entry description. At a bare minimum any use that constitutes copyright infringement, as this flag almost certainly does, should be ineligible.

(See, now no one will think that I'm you. Unless I'm disagreeing with myself.)

[u/Sataris → u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

I think that now the contest is probably more focused on point 1 (got people excited). I view it as a nice little activity that keeps the sub interesting (meaning we're not just posting the same stuff over and over again (though from what I've seen the people here are good at avoiding that)). It encourages creativity and is a great way for the whole sub to get involved.

[u/Simon_the_Cannibal → u/Sataris]

Cool - I appreciate the input! Do the rules fit this?

[u/[deleted] → u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

If you're still giving away the physical copies of each winning flag, I don't really want my r/circlejerk flag from last month. I might have a tough time explaining it to my parents and its not the type of flag I (or anyone else, hopefully) would be proud to display.

You can either save the money for another contest, or print both winning flags from this contest. If Bez does not deserve it for the design itself, I think he earns it for his good sportmanship.

[u/Simon_the_Cannibal → u/[deleted]]

Fair enough - thanks for letting me know!

[u/Qwo → u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

The rules don't need to be changed. Especially not on account of the tiring little man hiding behind that throwaway account.

[u/[deleted] → u/Simon_the_Cannibal]

Well for starters I believe that objections should be made in the submission thread, under the relevant submission. All objects should be public so the entrant can modify, remove, or keep their entry as is. This also allows the community to discuss the flag, which I believe is what the contest and this subreddit is all about.

Oh, and of course, all objections must be submitted before the contest is over. I mean, come on.

[u/literallyoverthemoon]

Throwaway guy is being a bit of an ass if you ask me.

You designed an entirely new flag, incorporating a piece of relevent cultural iconography, and you pieced together its elements from scratch, choosing your colours, dimensions, ratios etc.

If a portcullis was relevent to your flag, you would have redrawn a relevent portculliss design.

[u/literallyoverthemoon → u/literallyoverthemoon]

I missed this month's contest, so have only just seen r/chanther's entry. That is one shit-hot flag design, as worthy of winning as it is of being runner up.

[u/Sataris]

I have to admit that I was slightly less impressed with your awesome entry when I found out that the calligraphy wasn't your original work, but it was a very nice flag nonetheless. Well done for doing this. Now we just have to find the source for u/chanther's flag!

[u/Chanther]

Yikes. Hadn't known there was a controversy until now. I had absolutely no problem with your flag, and I hope no one pressured you to make a decision.

I also wish that the criticism of your flag had not come from a throwaway account - if someone is going to publicly call out a contest winner, I think it's important to be wholly up front. I do understand where u/THROWAWAY210513 is coming from and s/he has the right to criticize - even if I personally don't think there's anything wrong with Bezbojnicul's submission from a rules perspective. But I wish it had not been done anonymously. And due to the criticism's anonymity, I have the slight concern that someone might think it was me being a sore loser.

In any case, I am also grateful for the votes my flag received, and for having the chance to be a part of the contest and this subreddit.

[u/[deleted]]

This issue should have been raised before the end of the contest.

[u/THROWAWAY210513]

Thank you Bezbojnicul. I think you've made the right decision and I do apologise for being a bit of an ass. I think your work is brilliant and I don't hold anything against you. This was a gorgeous flag. My only issue was whether its use of someone else's artwork was appropriate in a contest of design skills. I hope the end result is that the contest rules are clarified for everyone. Thanks again and many apologies.

[u/[deleted] → u/THROWAWAY210513]

Stop it. The only reason you had a problem with this flag is because it won. Contest entries break the rules all the time but no one says anything because they don't go anywhere. The rules should be equally enforced on all, or not at all, but to scrutinize one entry more closely because of its success is wrong.

I don't need to hide behind a throwaway to say so either.

[u/THROWAWAY210513 → u/[deleted]]

When this flag was announced as the winner, I did a web search for kufic shahada to learn more about this kind of calligraphy. That's how I found the original artwork. Not because I was trying to scrutinise, but because I loved this design and wanted to see more like it.

I was disappointed because I had voted for this flag thinking it was original art and I felt deceived by the lack of disclosure. I would hope that anyone who chances upon a case like this would stand up and report it, even if doing so would be unpopular.

[u/Omaromar]

Wait wut

[u/[deleted]]

[u/kjmitch → u/[deleted]]

Honesty and integrity. It enables the fun things in our lives to take center stage as serious business.