r/SuccessionTV • u/LoretiTV CEO • May 22 '23
Discussion Succession - 4x09 "Church and State" - Post Episode Discussion
Season 4 Episode 9: Church and State
Aired: May 21, 2023
Directed by: Mark Mylod
Written by: Jesse Armstrong
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u/mr_duong567 May 22 '23
5 mil? Good deal.
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May 22 '23
This line was so funny to me because Kendall said it as if he's an expert on the mausoleum market.
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u/ensalys May 22 '23
They would believe Logan if he said 10k for a banana was a good deal.
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u/StoneGrooveOfficial May 22 '23
The one thing the kids seem to know somewhat well is New York real estate pricing. They've brought up their various knowledge of it throughout the show. Kendall made a bunch of money corning the market on new penthouses through some connections in one of the early episodes, so it's actually believable that he would be familiar with how much NYC ultra-lux crypts go for.
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u/TheSerendipitist May 22 '23
Oddly enough, he might have been right. I was watching this youtube review of the episode from someone that's a former funeral director and she was saying it's a steal and the crypt should normally cost 10 million.
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u/Vagabond21 May 22 '23
Logan would have loved Tom missing his funeral to keep ATN running
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u/borinena May 22 '23
Exactly. Remember how much shit he gave Kendall for leaving the deal to come celebrate Logan's birthday in the very first episode? Logan would have done the same thing.
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u/im-new-here-hi- May 22 '23
Logan planned on skipping Con’s wedding!
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u/KOMpushy May 22 '23
He also had planned to skip Shiv’s wedding (to everyone’s delight). He only only made an appearance on her special day to boost his stock price and yell at a waiter.
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u/littlesadshrimp May 22 '23
You know now that you say that, had Logan not mistreated that waiter in a way that resulted in him leaving the shift to go around back to smoke weed, Kendall wouldn’t have even interacted with him in a way that ended tragically.
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u/Davidfromtampa May 30 '23
Honestly I got the impression that he really wanted to go and used the excuse of the stock price to go. Especially when they all asked “I mean do you want to go” and he wouldn’t give a yes or no
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u/bIadeofmiqueIIa May 22 '23
we don't even know if HE was at the funeral
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u/DukPep May 22 '23
I can see it now
Title: "Succession" Season 4, Episode 10 - "The Phoenix Rises"
Synopsis: In the gripping season finale, the Roys are left reeling in the aftermath of what appears to be Logan's untimely demise, an event that sends shockwaves through Waystar Royco and beyond. The family is forced to grapple with their own ambitions and the seeming end of an era.
Meanwhile, Tom Wambsgans, ever the hapless foot soldier, finds himself entrapped in the ruse of Logan's death, a fact he comes to forget, spiraling into a chaotic mix of mourning and power-grabbing. Unbeknownst to him and the rest of the world, Logan is very much alive, and watching from the shadows.
In a turn of events that brings new meaning to the phrase 'the king is dead, long live the king', Logan Roy emerges from his self-imposed exile, resurrecting himself like a phoenix from the ashes. His return is not one of peace, but of war. Armed with the knowledge of the true colors of those who sought to capitalize on his 'death', Logan takes aim at the usurpers within his own company.
With his legendary ruthlessness cranked to a whole new level, Logan's warpath tears through the halls of Waystar Royco. As alliances crumble and new battle lines are drawn, the season ends on a chilling note: No one is safe when Logan Roy is on the hunt. The game of succession has just become a fight for survival.
obviously satire
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u/the_kimbos May 22 '23
Indeed, Logan would’ve skipped his own funeral if there was no business interest so I’m not convinced he was in the coffin.
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u/thevisitor May 22 '23
Interesting contrast with that and the kids making a deal and not making it to his birthday party. In their last conversation he even remarks how he wishes they were there.
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u/RealLameUserName May 22 '23
Which is basically case in point why his children will never have his respect or approval because he's constantly moving the goalposts.
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u/Joeyon May 22 '23
I think it's rather the case that he doesn't know what he wants and what would make him happy. He has always said that he wants his children to cold-blooded killers who prioritise business over family; but ones they become independent, business-oriented, and adversarial to him he doesn't feel pride or joy, instead he is just filled with sadness and emptiness.
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u/uncoolaidman May 22 '23
Or how he died missing the wedding of his first born son in order to protect the GoJo deal
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u/Rooboy66 May 22 '23
I always know this is just a ridiculous made up fiction TV show written by fantastic writers, but with that caveat, the two most memorable and disturbing scenes are: (1) When Siobhan talked the female cruise worker not to sue; and (2) When Logan skipped Connor’s wedding. Just … just … abject sociopathy. Total immorality. These characters—all of them, every single one—are venal; they can be BOUGHT for money. Fascinating TV writing, but kinda worrisome that the show is so successful. What’s it say about the audience?
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May 22 '23
It's a funny comment but the situations are different. Logan's funeral is packed with important business people, politicians, rivals vying for takeover, even the literal president elect. Logan's S1 birthday was just family, there's no business benefit to skipping work for Logan's birthday. But there's a huge benefit to skipping work for such an important funeral and post-funeral gathering.
fyi I do think Logan would respect / be amused by Tom skipping the funeral for ATN work, but not Kendall as co-CEO of the company.
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u/ThemesOfMurderBears May 22 '23
Second season -- Kendal is in rehab, and his dad pulls him out early just to do some PR.
Logan always puts company first.
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u/testsddda May 22 '23
And Logan skipped con's own wedding to deal with gojo!
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u/Rooboy66 May 22 '23
I know it’s just a TV show, but that kinda creeped me out. Who snubs your own kid’s wedding in order to fucking make coin? Monsters. The answer is, “monsters”.
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u/jbertrand_sr May 22 '23
Logan was going to skip Connor's wedding to do his deal with Mattson before he was indisposed...
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u/hilariasbaldtwin May 23 '23
woah I never thought about that. wild how upset Logan gets that none of his children make it to his last birthday.
“Well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions.”
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u/monocled_squid May 22 '23
This is it. He's the perfect successor lmao
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u/sassooooo May 22 '23
He didn’t leave the room…
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u/MrLearn May 22 '23
Who was with Mattson in the car when he mentioned an American CEO to Shiv (on the phone)? It looked like Mattson was looking at somebody that the camera wasn't showing.
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u/danonck May 22 '23
Probably Ebba. She's either playing her own game with the two sides, or she's being used by Mattson as a fake rogue agent.
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u/Bulky_Importance7885 May 23 '23
I feel like it’s Greg. He’s a perfect figurehead from Mattsens viewpoint. He knows he can manipulate Greg to do whatever he wants him to do, but if he does give the CEO role to Shiv he’ll never truly have control over her bc of her connection to the sibs
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u/sunscreenkween May 22 '23
And he’d be a top pick for running ATN, more appealing to Mencken than Shiv, since Tom already has ATN experience and he was the one who called the election in Mencken’s favor.
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u/DisturbedNocturne May 22 '23
Mencken and Matsson both seem sold on Shiv's pitch for an American CEO, but I think it goes without saying that Matsson stabs her in the back and picks someone like Tom.
All of the kids seem to be betting that people are going to be as good as their word - Mencken will kill the deal, Matsson will reward Shiv for betraying her family, hell, even Connor being assured he'll get rewarded for backing Mencken - but I think they're going to realize none of them have the sort of clout that kept people fearful of backing out on Logan. None of them really have any leverage, and it's likely they'll be tossed aside when they're no longer useful.
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u/Dispator May 22 '23
Yup. All the kids are obviously fucked. Anyone who does not see this is watching a different show. It's not the show some people think it is. What you see is what you get.
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u/madhaus May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
Of course they’re all going to be fucked.
Logan never gets fucked but I’ve [Tom] seen you [Kendall] get fucked every time.
You [Roy kids] are not serious people.
But you [Shiv] have no experience. [Because if she did she’d recognize the agreement was for an American CEO not for Shiv as CEO.]
Before proposing herself, Shiv proposed “anybody at all.”
Connor Roy was interested in politics at a very young age.
Greg will be told to fire them all.
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u/monocled_squid May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
Also there's no telling if Matsson will be able to buy them out, or Kendall will be able to go reverse Viking. It can also be a third possible outcome which we have yet to see.
Next episode is board meeting, I suspect they are all going to get fucked in some way.
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u/kylechu May 22 '23
I think it's less about them trusting peoples word and more about them vastly overestimating their own abilities and clout.
It seems like with Shiv it's less that she trusts Matsson has promised to pick her and more that she really thinks she'd be the obvious choice for him because she's just that smart.
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u/Toss_Away_93 May 22 '23
Shiv in charge is literally only appealing to Shiv. Zero experience running anything, she was a consultant on political campaigns, she didn’t run any campaigns. And she spent all of 1 week in the company when she was shadowing Logan.
Im honestly surprised that no one has blatantly told her that she’s not even being considered by anyone as a viable option.
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u/cmgblkpt May 22 '23
Actually I think Kendall and Roman already did that in Episode 4, when they came up with the co-CEO solution and when Shiv asked “What about me?” they told her to her face that she has no experience and that anything she had done so far was “Daddy make work.”
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u/CupcakeAndCashmere May 22 '23
And Matsson already knows Tom has been trying to kiss his ass left and right for a while now, so he’ll have him in his little pocket. He knows he’d have better control over Tom than Shiv.
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u/Mervynhaspeaked May 22 '23
Secret will reveal!
"Whoever misses my funeral to keep on working gets my chocolate fac....news company
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u/EnvironmentalNose879 May 22 '23
I think M&M may back Tom as the CEO, but Kendall will ultimately win persuading the shareholders away from Mencken the extremism and burying Roman Shiv and Tom in the process.
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u/monocled_squid May 22 '23
Yes, we'll see. Whatever the ending is, the writing would be spectacular so that everyone would see it's a great ending to the story being told, hopefully
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May 22 '23
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u/monocled_squid May 22 '23
Tom's like that because of his position. He played the obsequious servant when he needs to. Just like Logan played the good patriach in front of Nan and the Pierces. They adapt to the people they are with in order to get what they want. Tom does it to a more extreme degree than everyone else.
The children on the other hand had never had to do that. They can't fake anything, they can't hide what they want. They can't negotioate. They can't give people what they want in order to get what they want, because they can't put themselves in other people's shoes and figure out what people want. Throughout the show we see them trying to negotiate and failing. (Well except for Shiv when she negotiated with the SA victim). We see Ken failing to get Tom on his side even though he was facing a prison sentence. Tom asked Ken point blank what he would get for betraying his wife. And Ken responded with "she will respect you". That's a lame ass response to a man who was asking in concrete terms.
I'm not saying tom's perfect though. I'm just saying some of his quality that will make him the best candidate out of all the Roys. And he is family but not family, lol.
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u/HonJudgeFudge May 22 '23
What are you talking about? Did you not see the entire balcony scene? Tom is a different man
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u/El_Suavador May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
You're right, and it ties in nicely with the pilot episode, where Logan relinquishes
onthe initlal succession idea because Kendall "walked away from the table" to attend Logan's birthday party.59
u/BramStokerHarker May 22 '23
I think that was an accumulation. Logan already seemed annoyed by that magazine showing Ken as the successor.
Ken letting Lawrence trash talk him certainly was a big factor in it too.
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u/CupcakeAndCashmere May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
Oh yes. It would be the best and biggest “fuck you” to Karl after what he said to Tom when he asked to throw his hat in for consideration for interim CEO
Edit: Karl
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u/1FtMenace May 22 '23
I guarantee the "American CEO" is going to be Tom. Or god forbid-- Greg the Egg.
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u/MantaRayT May 22 '23
It’s Greg. It will be Greg. Tom is now distracted with a baby in Matsson’s eyes. Greg worked his way into that circle.
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u/MC_Fap_Commander May 22 '23
The CEO position will be a stooge as Matsson runs things. Greg is the one who would have no problem with that.
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u/Brian_Corey__ May 22 '23
I mean Logan blew off his iwn son Connor’s wedding to ink the Matsson deal. So yeah.
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u/BramStokerHarker May 22 '23
That's all I could think of. Rolls back to the pilot episode.
If anything he would've given him shit for showing up at all and saying he was tired.
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u/IllustriousDrama7493 May 22 '23
I feel like Tom was definitely working on something while everyone else was attending the funeral. He knows that he has to fight for himself to stay in this game and he is doing just that!
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u/tomc_23 May 22 '23
I said it on r/television, but I was honestly beginning to suspect that they would bring that full circle by presenting Kendall with a choice between dealing with some election/acquisition-related crisis, and going to his own father's funeral, and that this time he'd "choose the deal," so to speak.
I am glad that they didn't, though, but I think it's interesting that it's Tom, since the significance of his absence in favor of focusing on ATN isn't as immediately obvious as it'd be if it were Kendall. So much is happening in this episode that it'd be easy to overlook this detail, and I hope that we get to see another glimpse of Tom's newfound confidence/backbone in the finale.
Of the entire cast, Tom is the most in-tune with his emotions, and when you think about it, he's among the most perceptive of those around him. Pretty much the only reason we never see him cut loose is because he can't afford to jeopardize his tenuous position, but I'm pretty sure that a Tom Wamsgams with nothing to lose (and no reason to hold back) could absolutely gut each of the Roy siblings with that sharpened perception. Just once, I'd love to see Tom bluntly hit them right in their deepest insecurities with the same ruthless precision as telling Shiv that she "kinda killed" her dad.
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u/meganmirav May 22 '23
He wouldn’t blow a big deal to be at his dad’s birthday party like Kendall did in Episode 1. Full circle. Tom is The One.
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u/Ladiesday2022 May 22 '23
Everyone was at the funeral. There were no eyes on Tom. What was he up to all day? I think Tom takes the prize.
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u/NoMix1379 May 22 '23 edited May 23 '23
they way the writers were able to perfectly capture each of the sibs relationship with logan in their eulogies… fucking brilliant.
roman’s sad undying love, ken’s passive admiration, shiv’s yearning for his warmth, and con not even allowed a word
edit: someone on TikTok said this wasn’t just Logan’s funeral but Kendall’s coronation.
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u/Bronco_Buff May 22 '23
Poor Connor. Only one who actually wrote a speech he was prepared to give, yet the only one who didn’t get to say anything. 😂
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u/audreymarilynvivien May 22 '23
Haha ikr. Judging from Shiv’s reaction to his copy, though, it sounded like what he wrote was as bad as his presidential race withdrawal speech.
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May 22 '23
And yet can you imagine Logan telling Connor the details of his mausoleum ? I guess they were closer than we thought
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May 22 '23
I got the vibe Logan and Connor were closer than we saw though - Connor was the only one who knew about the mausoleum. Seems like Logan at least enjoyed talking to Connor.
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u/MancAngeles69 May 22 '23
It wouldn’t have been as good as Ken’s impromptu speech. I would have liked to hear at least a snippet. It would have been better than Roman’s just based on what he was able to deliver
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u/velvye May 22 '23
connor truly embodying the eldest son paying attention to the meticulous and mundane details of the funeral, so his younger siblings can continue business as usual at waystar. no acknowledgment, no gratitude, only the impatience of those who benefit from his backstage help.
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u/shadowkhaleesi May 22 '23
I thought that was a really poignant touch, him outlining the backstory of the funeral plot. Logan seemed to have a more mature father-son relationship with Connor versus the power struggles with the other kids. Seeing the sibling dynamics with their dad really helps show how complex Logan was and it was so apparent this episode.
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u/jayriemenschneider May 22 '23
Also, this was the first time that any of the "main" kids actually referred to Connor as a sibling. Kendall said that Logan created him and his three siblings.
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u/SlurmsMackenzie May 22 '23
“You fucked it, but it’s alright.” Cold blooded older brother shit right there.
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May 22 '23
But Kendall also saw immediately that Mencken was backing out on his promises and they had no leverage.
In a weird fucked up way- he was trying to get Roman back in line. It’s exactly what Logan would’ve said to Roman.
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u/ParsleyMostly May 22 '23
Lol after establishing Logan treated his kids like shit, Kendall is like “but it gets results”
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u/2PAK4U May 23 '23
and Colin back too
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May 23 '23
The way Colin looked at him… I’m wondering if Colin is going to reveal what Kendall did to the waiter.
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u/SlurmsMackenzie May 22 '23
Good point. He needs a lieutenant in the family. Roman knows he’s shit the bed.
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u/RealLameUserName May 22 '23
Even in his victory speech, Menken said he didn't like transactional relationships. I thought that was his subtle way of telling Ken and Rome that they were on their own.
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u/TruckNuts_But4YrBody May 23 '23
KENDALL IS GOING FULL NUCLEAR for power.
As other comments have said here, this is both a) something Logan would have said
And b) negging for a purpose
Kendall had made it plain that he's going all out to gain the crown. One king, one crown. He has a reason to X shiv out and now he's going to use Roman a little more before disposing of him as well.
Remember not that long ago before Roman had this boost of faux confidence, he was a glutton for punishment and literally gets off on it.
After his dad died he maybe was feeling free from that abuse, but then he broke down, fucked it with Mencken, and fucked the speech. Basically fucked his prospects for leadership.
Kendall gave him what he's used to, cold and calculated abuse for the point of manipulation. Kendall will fill Logan's role in Romans mind of the father figure and prime abuser, the one to seek approval from.
Roman is totally broken by his father's death and also looking for a surrogate. Kendall knows this and is taking advantage of it.
Roman picked a fight with the protestors to get punished and now he will blindly follow Kendall around hoping to do right by him for some approval.
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u/Big_Mac22 May 23 '23
I feel like the second he gave his eulogy, he officially transitioned into his dad. Like all of the weird try hard energy kind of melted away.
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u/Numerous-Ad-4282 May 22 '23
Caroline’s face when she didn’t get credit for having 3 kids absolutely sent me to the moon
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May 22 '23
Hands down the funniest part of the episode, I swear she mouthed something like "well I had something to do with it" but it had me dying.
Second funniest was the culmination of every incest joke on the show with Roman's "..... Is it mine?" lmao holy fuck
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May 22 '23
Everybody blaming Greg for Ewan for interrupting the funeral was also laugh out loud funny
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u/Joeyon May 22 '23
Except Greg's mom
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May 23 '23
I was so happy that his mom was there. I really liked his dynamic with her in the first couple episodes I would’ve liked to see more of them.
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u/aiweiyei May 22 '23
She absolutely mouthed something and I LOVED it. This episode was incredible for so many reasons, but she really made it for me.
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May 22 '23
She was fucking thriving and even though her reasons are kinda fucked lol, I'm at least glad SOMEbody was having a blast at Logan Roy's funeral.
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May 23 '23
I loved the way she brought all Logan’s women together. I thought it’d be a shit show but it turned out that they became sisters in the moment.
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u/madmax1969 May 22 '23
For me it was whatever Greg said when he couldn’t stop Ewen. It was something like, “what was I supposed to do? Take out his legs?!”
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u/AsideBside88 May 23 '23
I laughed so hard when Shiv saw her mom and said I thought I could hear the sound of Dalmatians howling.
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u/mikerzisu May 22 '23
Exactly what I thought too. Rewatched it to see if I could pick up on what she was mumbling
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May 30 '23
I thought it was sad, not funny
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May 30 '23
I mean it's a pretty fucked up thing out of context, but given what we know of the characters it goes from a tragic neglect of one's mother to a pretty funny moment between two nasty individuals.
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u/ISeeDeadDaleks May 22 '23
That was my favorite reaction shot of the whole episode. I laughed out loud.
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u/hm9408 May 22 '23
lol'd as well. Her reaction was "well I guess fucking Logan birthed them by himself didn't he?"
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u/Roy8atty May 22 '23
Kerry’s reaction to Marcia’s warm gesture was pretty amazing too. Caroline is smoother than she acts most of the time.
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u/Cold_Breadfruit_9794 May 22 '23
I loved that too. Like what was she expecting?! She is so apathetic towards them, why would they give her credit? 😂😭
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u/whogivesashirtdotca May 22 '23
Tied with Karolina's panic when Ewan headed to the podium. I was howling.
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u/lmao_rowing May 22 '23
Hey she only congratulated Tom for Shiv’s pregnancy! What goes around comes around
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u/AvaTate May 23 '23
Caroline was the MVP of this episode, putting all the mistresses and wives in the front row.
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May 23 '23
Her whole exchange with Shiv was magical too. We talk about how great the writing is, that whole scene was just "well", "ok", "yes", "we'll talk later" and it was still brilliant.
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u/pegggus09 May 22 '23
That’s reaction shot actually made me feel a little empathy (maybe more like sympathy) towards Caroline. I am sure she has always been tremendously overlooked as the mother of those kids given Logan’s power and status.
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u/DoctorG0nzo May 22 '23
Someone here has to bring up Connor even if this wasn’t a focus ep for him. I loved the low key characterization that he’s the only one who his dad texted about his nutty fucking tomb, feels like it shows a funny side of both of them. Really feels like it highlights what one could imagine could be the one positive side of their relationship: Logan texting Connor every once in a while about something that seems like weird shit he would be into
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u/Mr_Potato_Head1 May 22 '23
In some ways he was simultaneously the closest and most distant child to Logan. Their relationship was much less confrontational a lot of the time.
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May 22 '23
Connor didn't compete with Logan, and he also kept his distance. He was an outsider in his own family, but also had the most even relationship with Logan because of it.
Like, Connor was always at some kind of mid/low baseline, whereas the other kids had high highs immediately followed by low lows.
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u/LR-II May 22 '23
He thought he wasn't worthy of professional respect, but that allowed him to treat him like an actual son sometimes.
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u/NickRick May 22 '23
their relationship was about their personal stuff, not their professional stuff. the rest of the sibs it was about professional stuff.
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u/trikyballs May 22 '23
so cute actually didn’t register that. “connor would absolutely love the deal i got on this tomb”
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u/Littletom523 May 22 '23
Yes I love how shocked the sibs were about Connor knowing about this. It was a great moment and realistic too. For this brief scene you could see Logan did talk to Connor sometimes and it would propably be about deeper things.
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u/digitchecker May 22 '23
month goes by, Logan typing What…do…you…think…of… this. On sale at auction dot com wacko. but I like it
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u/audreymarilynvivien May 22 '23
There was a good 10 years or so where Connor was Logan’s only child and had his dad all to himself. They probably bonded in a way the other siblings, who were close in age and fighting for his affection, probably couldn’t.
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u/s0ftsp0ken May 22 '23
I was waiting for someone to mention this. Connor was of course scarred but y Logan, but he really does seem to be taking things better than his siblings. He's still emotionally scarred, but probably had more of a surface level relationship with Logan than the push-pull inconsistent love of his siblings. So he wished for more connection while they were given it, had it taken away, and then punished for ever wanting it, rinse and repeat.
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u/DSQ May 22 '23
In an earlier episode Connor basically says he kept going to the mortuary because it was calming how much his dad “wasn’t there”. He’s the only sibling that after the grief felt relief over his dad’s death and was okay with feeling that way.
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u/birdnoa May 22 '23
Franks deadpan “life is short we should all love one another” was a great Frank moment. Lots of good moments for our fave supporting cast this episode. Ditto Gerri “but how sad are you really” lol
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u/huntimir151 May 22 '23
Also he shows distaste towards the video of Roman crying being circulated. I can't help but like frank lol
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u/LiveWireElectrified May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
Gerri's line, immediately followed by Karolina's we're surrounded by dozens of eavesdroppers with POCKET RECORDING DEVICES and none of you have ANY IDEA how many hours it will take me to manage this if you answer honestly face.
Also,
HugoKarl and Frank trying to answer when Shiv asks how bad Logan really was, and the look on Frank's face after Shiv walks away.1.2k
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u/rydogs May 22 '23
Frank’s become one of my favorite characters this season.
Even after shrugging off Roman’s bullshit, he’s still the one to notice something and ask “You okay, son?” to Rome before the breakdown.
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u/BrenoGrangerPotter May 22 '23
”You would never have dared not to come to his funeral when he was alive.” LOL Shiv have great lines in this episodes
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u/robot_sidekick May 22 '23
"Your dad has lost some influence in the past few days"
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May 22 '23
Feels like foreshadowing to the Roy’s losing waystar. The family as a whole doesn’t have influence anymore.
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u/Living-Break6533 Jul 09 '23
Shiv loves it when Tom comes back at her in a funny way, she gets a gleam in her eye.
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u/DarkMattersConfusing May 22 '23
-Coffin slowly being taken into mausoleum-
Shiv: “Intrigued to see how he gets out of this one”
Made me laugh out loud
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u/bonjourellen May 23 '23
Same! There were so many great lines tonight, but I think that one was my favorite.
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u/Cripkate May 23 '23
His reply was by far the meanest thing he’s ever said to her. “I was the first in when he was dying and got to say goodbye already”…ouch!! She just told him how much it hurts her that Tom stole away the last 6 months she could have had with her dad
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u/Order_Flaky May 24 '23
I’m surprised that Tom didn’t mention that he called Shiv first twice when Logan was dying, and if she had picked up the call, she would have been able to talk to her father before he died, rather than Tom having then to call Kendall
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u/loboMuerto May 22 '23
Not such a great line: Logan would have much prefered Tom to stay at work at ATN.
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May 22 '23
Logan definitely would have preferred that, but Tom being the ass-kisser that he is wouldn’t miss that funeral for the world; Shiv is right.
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u/crmrdtr May 22 '23 edited May 22 '23
Kendall planning to fight Rava for custody, purely out of spite: just like his dad did to Caroline.
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u/bouguerean May 22 '23
I literally wrote on this sub like a week ago that the best thing Kendall's done for his kids was not fight for custody. And then, tonight.
True continuation of the cycle, man.
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May 22 '23
And I hope the twist will be Kendall’s kids won’t want to be with him. It doesn’t sound like they ever sat at Kendall’s office door just so he would hear them play. Ken’s kids lack the desire he and his siblings had to be close to the Ken and have his approval/love.
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u/PatchesofSour May 22 '23
probably helps that Rava seems like a loving and hands on parents. meanwhile their father is constantly mia, went months in a drug binge, and helped elect a facist
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u/damewallyburns May 22 '23
also it’s very traumatizing to have your dad fuck with a vehicle you are in!
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u/YoYoMoMa May 22 '23
Watching your parents fight is tough. Watching that level of fight is shit you have to work through in therapy.
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u/MrinalSabKaPap May 22 '23
But Rava loves her children (I think). And Caroline can't even listen to her son,taunts her daughter for being a mother and sells her children for a piece of property
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u/crmrdtr May 22 '23
No doubt Caroline has been a horrendous mother. But as we learned from one of her conversations with Shiv, Logan’s #1 motive for securing full custody of the kids was that he had to triumph over her. He had to WIN at all costs, whether it be in his personal life or business dealings.
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u/amethystalien6 May 22 '23
I have no doubt that Rava loves her children. I think Rava is still the person that loves Kendall the most. As shitty as he’s been to the kids, she obviously doesn’t relish the idea of all of them missing Logan’s funeral because she knows it will hurt Kendall. She does it because she has to in order to protect her kids.
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u/EG2K_00 May 22 '23
Karl pulling up that video of Roman weeping was fucking brutal lol
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u/kill-the-spare May 22 '23
Ah, the words every daughter who is pregnant for the first time dreams of hearing from her mother: Blimey. Well, I never. Well, well.
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u/Mr_Potato_Head1 May 22 '23
I thought Ewan's speech was great. Huge moment for a character we've not seen in ages, initially showing himself to be self-absorbed, but oddly touching and revealing, and even self-aware at certain points. Get the impression he ultimately knew Logan better than any of them.
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u/ThatCaviarIsAGarnish May 22 '23
I loved him, I suppose. And I suppose some of you did too. In whatever way he would let us - and we could manage."
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u/noble_567 May 22 '23
Caroline orchestrating Kerry sitting next to Marcia was perfect
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u/LoretiTV May 22 '23
All time episode. "All bangers, all the time" has never been more appropriate 👏